Large Hadron Collider Could Be World's First Time Machine
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Dear People of the year 2011: I am the Interplanetary Czar of Monetary Resources. Unfortunately, the Planetary Alliance is experiencing financial difficulties. With a generous donation of $2,500,000 in your time's currency, we can regain access to our vaults of Europa and Ganymede. For your generosity, we will send, to your time, 1,000,000 Kexligs (valued at over 10 Trillion of Dollars in your time) and the deeds of ownership to all of Saturn's Moons (all of which are rich in Helium). Please find enclosed a postage-paid envelope.
Yours,
Horace Q. Winglepix, ICMR
Of course once we figure out how to send info forward and backwards in time, we'll find it much more satisfying to spam people from the past since they're all going to be old/ dead and thus, unable to do anything about out futuristic shenanigans.
Yours,
Horace Q. Winglepix, ICMR
Of course once we figure out how to send info forward and backwards in time, we'll find it much more satisfying to spam people from the past since they're all going to be old/ dead and thus, unable to do anything about out futuristic shenanigans.
Ah, I see! Very interesting point you have there, that makes sense. For some reason, I keep thinking of that old story "The Time Machine", in which it's a portable little sled thing. Whenever I remind myself that a big stationary one is more reasonable, I always forget.Anchupom said:
The only thing: What if this Hadron Collider is the gateway for someone from the future to enter, and they're waiting to come through and do something that happened to them as well as our civilization? Agh, time travel makes my brain hurt.
well not neccisarily, it could be possible that if a time machine were invented, it would only be able to travel back as far as when it was first created, using the machine as sorta the exit+entrance. but then the second someone completed that time machine, we'd know it works,luckycharms8282 said:
To quote Brian Cox who is particle physicist, anybody who believes that the LHC will create a black hole is a twat. The LHC is several orders of magnitude below producing even the same sorts of energies as the theoretical Hawking radiation which allows black holes to obey thermodynamics. Also even if it was capable of making one it would be so tiny it would decay nearly instantly due to the said Hawking radiation.Tom a Hawk said:
I don't expect there to be any messages from the future myself, but your argument is highly flawed.Shiftysnowdog said:
The message-carrying particles have yet to be detected. That means that if the future was sending us messages, we would be completely unaware of it. Sagan's argument doesn't apply to this situation until we are able to detect these particles reliably and with the precision to interpret any information they carry. If we don't suddenly get bombarded by coded information, then we'll know.
what if they did get a message from the future and it was jsut a string of numbers:
20110627
2011-06-27
June 27th 2011!!!!
If we got a date like that with NO CLUE AT ALL what will happen only that it is important enough for someone to send a message back in time... but to do what? change the past? Change the future? But if the past was changed then that may lead to them not sending the message back from the future and...
20110627
2011-06-27
June 27th 2011!!!!
If we got a date like that with NO CLUE AT ALL what will happen only that it is important enough for someone to send a message back in time... but to do what? change the past? Change the future? But if the past was changed then that may lead to them not sending the message back from the future and...
Such a "Time Email" could only work within a limited parameter i.e. you can only communicate within ONE MACHINE'S lifetime.Shiftysnowdog said:
For example say the machine was made in the year 2020 and the machine was destroyed in 2075. At any point in that time messages could be sent back to any point between 2020 and 2075 but only within that machine and it would be just a message. It would be interpreted by examining the behaviour of sub-atomic particles, this is very fiddly the messages must be simple binary strings.
So the time travellers are waiting for US to build a time machine!
LHC is very unsuited to this task, it would have to contain and carefully monitor a collection of particles with extraordinary reliability and precision for a very long time and then there is the very nature of causality. For example you will know if your time-mailer works or not the moment you switch it on as if EVER in the history of this device running sends a message then they will send it back to the time when they most likely want one, when it is first turned on.
Sending messages to the future is easy, just seal it in a durable container and tell them when to open it. Or simply leave a message
The message could be extremely simple, like number from a random number generator that has not been run yet.
So that is the solution to Carl Sagan's dilemma of "why don't they just come back in time and show us how to build a time machine" as they would be dependant on hardware on our end. If time machines are not like teleportation devices, they stay in their position in space but INFORMATION travels through time while the physical machine just sits there proceeding through time at 1 second per second. This also accommodates for Einstein's objection to Time Travel that it violates laws of conservation of energy as matter (energy) disappears from one time and re-appears in another. Information is not under such constraints. Entropy I suppose is a factor there, but I think that cane be balanced with adequate energy to balance the system.
So under this theory of time travel it remains impossible to visit the age of the dinosaurs... not unless someone/something built a time machine 65 million years ago and it has been running continuously ever since and even then only a simple text message.
Yes, a long shot... The good physicist spend time tasking measurements and testing theoretical models. The ones desperate to get published talk about how higgs bosons might time travel... Seeing the higgs with it's decay product sure would be neat, since every documentary and every article ever on the LHC says it will not detect the Higgs, but only it's decay products, if it in fact exists. But I guess if higgs bosons can time travel they can alter the functionality of the LHC detectors while they're at it.
They can only send it to a time in which they have methods for recieving these incredibly complicated messages. It aint gonna apear in text floating in the air. The coolest thing will be when they send out a hello world message and in five minutes they receive it back but the signal did not age.phoenix352 said:
I had thought of this, after I posted, when I was taking a shower. The message would be inhibited by the fact that no machine has been built yet that can read or track said message/particle. Time and progress gets in the way of tracking time with the Higgs Singlet.Asehujiko said:
Alot of people quote Sagan about Time travel (Where the frack are all the time travelers then?)
But if you actually bother to think about it, Time travel is likely to be hideously expensive (energy terms) so, like space, only a select group of intensely trained 'Time-o-nauts' are going to do it and are probably not stupid enough to fuck with the time-space contiuum by saying "LOL I R FUTUR MAN ROFLCAUST!" or buying Manhattan back when it was just an island.
But if you actually bother to think about it, Time travel is likely to be hideously expensive (energy terms) so, like space, only a select group of intensely trained 'Time-o-nauts' are going to do it and are probably not stupid enough to fuck with the time-space contiuum by saying "LOL I R FUTUR MAN ROFLCAUST!" or buying Manhattan back when it was just an island.
Out of the 7 or so people that quoted me, you're the only one that didn't come off as a complete ass hole, while still providing a counter argument.Treblaine said:
You also provided the best example as to why I am wrong.
Wanna have kids?
Shiftysnowdog said:
I like this idea of time travel, limited to fiction for now the appeal is it is so plausible. Every time time machines are brought into a fiction everything gets muddled as people are teleporting all over the place at the same time as time-travelling.
I imagine a scenario similar to the Codebreakers in World War 2 who broke the German enigma code by building the worlds first true computer. What is in a future war the allies secret weapon is a time machine like this that is able to send back simple messages in response to pre-set questions.
Or a Lex Luthor type with his own private time-machine how could one abuse that power to manipulate and control.
I think this is FAR more interesting than just zooming around back through time and visiting long gone historical places and events. OK, I am interested in historical time periods like playing Red Dead Redemption but the time-travel aspect is a distraction.
____
Also something has occurred to me about Carl Sagan's reasoning:
"if time travel was possible, then they'd have just travelled back in time and told us it was"
Well hang on, isn't that a bit "time-ist", isn't that a bit bigoted to assume a time traveller would come back to OUR time to tell us it was possible? What is so special about our time to a time traveller? Why 2011, or 1985, or 1918 or 1066... or 2066?
Lets say it takes 500 years before we master time travel based on technology and theory that we aren't even approaching today, what would be the point in travelling back to this time period we live in? We may see ourselves as pretty advanced today but maybe in 500 years they will view this time period in the same category as the Dark Ages and not consider us WORTHY of being told time-travel was possible.
Most likely IF we invent time travel they will travel to their most recent history, the history just outside of living memory and will most likely immediately tell themselves that this whole time-travel tech is a worthy investment.
I am betting, that if it's even possible, the type of time travel that is done with this might just be in milliseconds. Not enough to do anything drastic.