Lesbian Marriage Too Tough For Batwoman, Authors Leave

[marscentral]

I'm pretty sure this is more about marriage and divorce then them being lesbians. Even though married Spider-man was working fine, Marvel hated his marriage and most of their silly choices with him came from that, all because they couldn't just have him divorce MJ. DC didn't want Superman married, even though that was also fine, but at least lived with it until they could easily retcon it without an awful OMD story. If future writers wanted to give Batwoman a new love interest, they'd be in the same predicament.

 

[Lightknight]

Wait, they allow a lesbian relationship but no marriage? That's kinda interesting.

Though, most of the big name superheroes never get married for some reason. Not the the DC universe. So here's hoping that was just a general policy on marriage of main heroes whose writers are regularly shuffled around rather than specifically against gay marriage in a series that had already taken the leap to have a gay relationship. Either way, good on DC for allowing it to go as far as it has. It isn't all the way but it's a badly needed step in that direction.

Perhaps they consider the hugely polarized issue of gay marriage as something that would piss off far more people. In modern times, acceptance of gay marriage is shifted against it still, but acceptance of gays in general is only increasing with anyone else on the wayside being a bigot now considered in the ranks of racists and sexists. So they may have thought this was a step to far at the moment and aren't necessarily wrong.

 

[Gunjester]

Batwoman is into chicks?

I did not know this.

Then again, I didn't really know there was a Batwoman. I thought she got paralyzed... or something? Or is this one of them alternate universe things?

Eh, comics.

Titles pass on, bro.

OT: Their loss. They should've included it because nerds would've flocked just for the wedding kiss, and it'd hit up the publicity meter when Fox news would babble about it. Stupid DC, I guess I should expect no less from the guys who grab an element, recolour pajamas and say it's a new hero...

 

[mjharper]

I'm pretty sure this is more about marriage and divorce then them being lesbians. Even though married Spider-man was working fine, Marvel hated his marriage and most of their silly choices with him came from that, all because they couldn't just have him divorce MJ. DC didn't want Superman married, even though that was also fine, but at least lived with it until they could easily retcon it without an awful OMD story. If future writers wanted to give Batwoman a new love interest, they'd be in the same predicament.

I get that, but in the New 52 we've seen Barbara Gordon out of a wheel-chair for the first time in decades. And Batwoman has been an on-off thing for most of her existence, being re-introduced and re-invented as whoever was writing saw fit. Also, it's hard to justify decisions which MAY affect future writers when the same decisions cost you your CURRENT writers (and artist) who have turned the series into a highly acclaimed work.

What it comes down to is this: Would anyone who is currently invested in the character and series mind if Kate got married, so long as it was handled with the care that the series has been shown to date? I'm pretty sure the answer is 'no'.

 

[Lightknight]

Batwoman is into chicks?

I did not know this.

Then again, I didn't really know there was a Batwoman. I thought she got paralyzed... or something? Or is this one of them alternate universe things?

Eh, comics.

Titles pass on, bro.

OT: Their loss. They should've included it because nerds would've flocked just for the wedding kiss, and it'd hit up the publicity meter when Fox news would babble about it. Stupid DC, I guess I should expect no less from the guys who grab an element, recolour pajamas and say it's a new hero...

But also yes, it is an alternate universe just like anything in Marvel and DC is, now that they've both broken the glass and hit on the multiverse button as hard as possible. The question is, which universe is the traditional one?

 

[mjharper]

Wait, they allow a lesbian relationship but no marriage? That's kinda interesting.

Though, most of the big name superheroes never get married for some reason. Not the the DC universe. So here's hoping that was just a general policy on marriage of main heroes whose writers are regularly shuffled around rather than specifically against gay marriage in a series that had already taken the leap to have a gay relationship. Either way, good on DC for allowing it to go as far as it has. It isn't all the way but it's a badly needed step in that direction.

Perhaps they consider the hugely polarized issue of gay marriage as something that would piss off far more people. In modern times, acceptance of gay marriage is shifted against it still, but acceptance of gays in general is only increasing with anyone else on the wayside being a bigot now considered in the ranks of racists and sexists. So they may have thought this was a step to far at the moment and aren't necessarily wrong.

Thing is, it might be worse if it's 'only' against marriage rather than against gay marriage.

If it's about marriage in general, it might not homophobic, but it prevents ANY character from actually growing up and developing a proper relationship. And maybe, just maybe, DC comics could stand to have a few more adults and a few less T&A adolescents.

 

[Lightknight]

Thing is, it might be worse if it's 'only' against marriage rather than against gay marriage.

If it's about marriage in general, it might not homophobic, but it prevents ANY character from actually growing up and developing a proper relationship. And maybe, just maybe, DC comics could stand to have a few more adults and a few less T&A adolescents.

I don't know if I'd really agree with that. I think it blocks them in. How many TV shows have you seen where the guy gets the girl and the loss of that element of pursuit ruins or at least devalues the story going forward? Perhaps you haven't noticed that but I've seen it in more than one show. Comics, like shows, are episodic. It is best to have multiple fronts of drama to shift the focus to and from to keep the audience engaged. Romance is one of the big ones and taking that out of the picture by giving them what they want does box the writers in unless the spouse is now a plot mechanism that is all but a red shirt going forward. Even then, there's not much difference between a married hero and a hero with a girlfriend.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Given that, to my knowledge, the only married major character in the entire New 52 is Animal Man, I agree that DC fears all marriage, not just gay marriage. So... kudos to them for treating their gay couple the same way that they treat all of their straight couples, I guess?

(Seriously, though, last-minute editorial meddling to prevent changes in the status quo is very DC, and is the main reason I don't read it anymore.)

Well actually Animal Man's wife left him after their son died so yeah there are no married characters in the DCU at the moment.

 

[K12]

Well done to the writers for making a difficult decision and sticking to their principles.

Let's hope that Batwoman crashes and burns from this point and DC are forced to retcon everything back to this point and allow the writers to tell their fucking story!

Bollocks to DC for screwing over the people who are making all their damn money for them and screw them for being think enough to think that an engaged couple wouldn't eventually get married because they are lesbians.

 

[Zeldias]

Marriage is for stability, which is anathema for a comic book. It's a cheap gimmick up there with 'The Death Of'.

The wedding always ends up being this stupid spectacle issue with everyone happy and crying and even the villains showing up to play nice when you know it's all going to end horribly later. Until the breakup, plots are constrained because marriage makes things staid and boring - that's what it's /supposed/ to do. Old heroes are sometimes allowed to get married and mostly stay happily married, like Reed and Sue Richards once Namor got over his thing for her, but writers can't resist f@#$ing with that at some point either.

I'm sure the writers really cared for the character, but it sounds like DC was trying to keep them from fanficing her. Lesbian or not, it's a bad idea.

Ehh, Black Panther and Storm's marriage seems pretty excellent.

Anyways, I say let her get married. She could have developed some beef from the Bat family with Bats like "You're making your wife a target, you fool!" and blah blah.

 

[Warachia]

Marriage is for stability, which is anathema for a comic book. It's a cheap gimmick up there with 'The Death Of'.

The wedding always ends up being this stupid spectacle issue with everyone happy and crying and even the villains showing up to play nice when you know it's all going to end horribly later. Until the breakup, plots are constrained because marriage makes things staid and boring - that's what it's /supposed/ to do. Old heroes are sometimes allowed to get married and mostly stay happily married, like Reed and Sue Richards once Namor got over his thing for her, but writers can't resist f@#$ing with that at some point either.

I'm sure the writers really cared for the character, but it sounds like DC was trying to keep them from fanficing her. Lesbian or not, it's a bad idea.

It's really not a bad idea, saying that a marriage makes a relationship or a person stable is ridiculous, you can have good stories and good drama with a characters marriage, just as you can end up breaking off the marriage (if one of the characters die for example). I never understood the thought of not wanting to have characters get married, you could get the same thing if the characters were romantically involved, and weren't ever going to cheat on one another.

Your comment reminds me of the One More Day thing with Spider Man, where the Joe Quesada believed that married people can't have drama, something anybody with married parents or who is married themselves can tell you is bullshit.

It's not a fanfic if it's done by the writers of the book, and has been planned, built up, then executed, by your logic, every character change would be a fanfic (despite not being done by the fans).

Personally I think they (DC) were just worried that if they establish too much regarding a character, they'll have less they can change around however they want later, not to mention the fan backlash when they inevitably do that anyway will be slightly lessened.

 

[verdant monkai]

Good

Anyone who thinks that any iteration of Batman (of either gender) getting married is a good idea, shouldn't be writing Batman.

Batman is married to the job. Crime fighting is his passion not women. Any Female version of Batman should reflect this. She needs to be dark, smart, driven and strong. But most of all clear in her intent, she needs to focus on who she is (A Crime Fighter).

Batman sort of has a thing for Catwoman and Ra's AL Ghul's daughter, but he hasn't married them. He gets Talia pregnant but leaves her to raise the kid herself.

Just no. A bat marriage is a dumb idea. It just seems like some kind of controversy ploy to sell a few copies.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Ehh, Black Panther and Storm's marriage seems pretty excellent.

Anyways, I say let her get married. She could have developed some beef from the Bat family with Bats like "You're making your wife a target, you fool!" and blah blah.

Black Panther had his marriage to Storm annulled in the aftermath of the horrible AvX crossover. She's currently in a romantic relationship with Wolverine.

And Batwoman herself isn't actually part of the Bat-Family oddly enough. She took up the mantle separately from Batman and his like. They already don't get along that well.

 

[JarinArenos]

Seriously people?

Everyone knows controversy sells and the people in charge of DC probably know it better than most, I'd bet anything that this is a little less black and white than DC being a bunch of homophobes.

Controversy sells? I'm not so sure about that. Who, exactly, is going to go out and buy the comics from this? Firstly, you have people like me... I'd just started reading Batgirl, and was looking at starting Batwoman, having heard that it was really damn good. No chance of that now. Secondly, you have people who are anti-gay-marriage, who... still aren't going to buy it because the main character isn't getting any less lesbian from this. Who is this controversy selling to?

Edit:

Anyone who thinks that any iteration of Batman (of either gender) getting married is a good idea, shouldn't be writing Batman.

You realize that Batwoman has no relation to Batman other than thematic appearance, right? She's not a gender-swap.

 

[Drauger]

The only one making this about lesbians are the writer of this article and the people in here bitching. As has already been said, none of the major DC heroes are married. They even broke up Lois Lane and Superman for the New 52. There's no reason to think this is any different than them not marrying their other heroes other than people love moral outrage.

After reading your post it hit me, I started to enjoy again reading Superman since they broke his marriage, really it was so dull and boring to watch Supes and Loise doing the perfect couple crap, I'm ok with this, here's an suggestion for the new writers, let a villain kill Maggie.

 

[LittleThestral]

Good

Anyone who thinks that any iteration of Batman (of either gender) getting married is a good idea, shouldn't be writing Batman.

Batman is married to the job. Crime fighting is his passion not women. Any Female version of Batman should reflect this. She needs to be dark, smart, driven and strong. But most of all clear in her intent, she needs to focus on who she is (A Crime Fighter).

Or, you know, she should show up his whiny, self-pitying ass and have a fulfilling crime fighting career, a loving partner, AND drama.

Having a satisfying relationship doesn't make your life revolve around the other person, you know. Considering that they're engaged, I'm pretty sure that the relationship is already pretty damned serious and that Batwoman takes care to keep her partner out of harm's way (as much as possible, anyway, in a world where supervillains are insane and powerful). Only unhealthy relationships force your life to revolve around your partner.

Plus this dumbass cultural ideal of being single-in-name-only so that you can totally be free to do whatever and whoever you want without repercussions (which, even if you're not married, makes no sense if you have a partner you care for) is just...so stupid. A marriage is a contract, putting in writing what you already live with the bonuses that only come to married couples (legal rights and so on). Not sure what Gotham's tax code is like, but you get my drift.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

because same gender homophobia tends to be allot more common.

I'll agree to this because as a male working in the massage therapy profession, straight males are the biggest hurdle I run into. Their homophobia of being touched by another man in a massage situation (BTW for you folks thinking of making "happy ending" jokes, thats not massage therapy thats PROSTITUTION and an insult to those of us who actually work for a living) scares the living shit out of a large portion of them.
BUT they'll let their male proctologist put on a glove and shove their finger up their ass...