Lessons to teach men with absent fathers

[Buckshaft]

You are not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

Hur Hur. Pop culture reference to offset the bitchfest.

Yeah, My dad was abusive/absent. One lesson I can offer? Don't shut yourself off. Talk to people.

 

[chuckman1]

My message to all the people saying I am sexist and women can teach men EVERYTHING.

What does a woman tell her son when:
He gets his first boner
He wants to have sex with someone
He wants dating advice
He has his first homosexual thoughts (possible)
He wants to try "manscaping"
He has just discovered masturbation.
He wants "the sex talk"
He wonders where he can find porn?

Almost half of these were too awkward to ever talk to my mom about

 

[Armadox]

My message to all the people saying I am sexist and women can teach men EVERYTHING.

What does a woman tell her son when:
He gets his first boner
He wants to have sex with someone
He wants dating advice
He has his first homosexual thoughts (possible)
He wants to try "manscaping"
He has just discovered masturbation.
He wants "the sex talk"
He wonders where he can find porn?

Almost half of these were too awkward to ever talk to my mom about

Genuinely, out of pure curiosity, what did peoples dads tell them in these situations?

"I bought you an internet connection, and I taught you how to not get a virus. You're on your own.."

 

[Vault101]

He gets his first boner

that's called an erection...when you're body is ready for sex, although it doesn't nessicaryly mean you want sex its just a reaction, its perfectly normal and nothing to freak out over (ok I'll admit with this one my knowledge of how erections work is limited....but hey we got google)

[quote/]He wants to have sex with someone[/quote]
use a condom...make sure you KNOW how to use one...that reservoir tip is very important, be considerate sex is not like porn, take note of her responses and for gods sake if there is any shadow of a doubt as to consent don't do it!...no drunken party sex

[quote/]He wants dating advice[/quote]
stay away from that PUA stuff

[quote/]He has his first homosexual thoughts (possible)[/quote]
that's perfectly fine, it doesn't nessicaryly mean you're gay...if you ever do feel the need to experiment please be safe

[quote/]He wants to try "manscaping"[/quote]
I wouldn't recommend fully shaving nor do I trust you with a razor...try trimming

[quote/]He has just discovered masturbation.[/quote]
here's some proper lube...don't make a mess and don't over do it

[quote/]He wants "the sex talk"[/quote]
well the reason men and woman have different parts...

[quote/]He wonders where he can find porn?[/quote]
why are you asking me? and no...youll give the computer a virus

[quote/]Almost half of these were too awkward to ever talk to my mom about[/quote]
well if he doesn't want to ask his mother he might ask someone else, though its her responsibility to least tell him important stuff

 

[Thaluikhain]

Almost half of these were too awkward to ever talk to my mom about

For you, and your mother, sure. (Though one wonders if you could ask your dad).

That's not to say for everyone.

 

[manic_depressive13]

My message to all the people saying I am sexist and women can teach men EVERYTHING.

What does a woman tell her son when:
He gets his first boner
He wants to have sex with someone
He wants dating advice
He has his first homosexual thoughts (possible)
He wants to try "manscaping"
He has just discovered masturbation.
He wants "the sex talk"
He wonders where he can find porn?

Almost half of these were too awkward to ever talk to my mom about

I'm sorry you didn't feel comfortable talking to your mum about these, but there's no reason a woman wouldn't be able to help you with all of these issues. The problem lies in how open and knowledgeable your parents happen to be, and in many cases the answer for both the mother and father is "not very". In reality I don't know anyone who would or could discuss most of these things with their parents.

 

[the December King]

This thread has given me the vague and rather sad impression that a lot of people think that men aren't needed to raise kids at all.

In chuckman1's example, there IS a reason that a man would be a far more optimal choice than a mother, the fact that the father has been through all of these issues, personally. It's not a matter of looking it up on google, or rattling off facts in a forum about condoms. It was an experience, and that can be related.

Having said that, if there is no male-father figure present, then a son will have to make do with what he can glean from the mother figure, or possibly a surrogate male role model/ trusted party. It would be the same if a daughter only had a father to talk about menstruation, for example- not ideal, but hopefully sufficient, and further enhanced with an Aunt or another party.

 

[Elijah Newton]

The gold on these forums is worth the dross. And there's a lot of dross. But good stuff jumped out at me even relatively late in this discussion's life - stuff by these folks, condensed for space :

So my advice to anyone who grows up sans any parent? Don't ever be too proud to admit that you need help or to accept it if it is given.

Pretty much everything Piscian said, highlighting common sense stuff that gets overlooked :

G. Even though it seems dumb, at least once every day go out and sit or stand in the sun. Science has proven sunlight will make life better.

H. Eat fruits and vegetables everyday. If you can't try drinking Naked or Odwalla drinks. Your health is the most important and finite thing you have.

I'd boil Amadox's best bits down to this :

the lesson at the end of it all is; Life is going to be hard, and you're job is to make it less hard for someone else.

Oh, and learn to bloody cook.

My two cents is : This is a lot like not hesitating to ask for help, but I'd add : don't hesitate to pick out a surrogate dad. Maybe this isn't something to celebrate but you have the advantage of not being tied to one person. Think about what you're learning. Evaluate whether or not their version of common sense works for you. To paraphrase Ben Franklin from back in the day, you learn from observing anyone : some folks teach you how to behave, other folks teach you how not to behave.

*shrug* Good advice for folks with father figures, too, really.

Personally, my dad gave me an appreciation for common sense. This isn't gendered knowledge, but sometimes its easier to accept when coming from a father (or father figure).

Also, I'd underscore learning how to cook. If you're just desperate for good food you might end up with someone who's not right for you. (I hold there's truth to the aphorism about the road to a man's heart?). Also it's good to know how to spend time making something you like, file it under self-reliance if this seems too fru-fru to accept at face value. Also, psychologically it's healthy to feel confident in your ability to take care of yourself. Also, like building a fire, crafting even something temporary/disposable like food creates a sense of accomplishment. Learn to make what you like. For me it was mac and cheese from scratch. A single friend of mine obsessed about getting baklava just right. Find your thing.

 

[Thaluikhain]

This thread has given me the vague and rather sad impression that a lot of people think that men aren't needed to raise kids at all.

...

Having said that, if there is no male-father figure present, then a son will have to make do with what he can glean from the mother figure, or possibly a surrogate male role model/ trusted party. It would be the same if a daughter only had a father to talk about menstruation, for example- not ideal, but hopefully sufficient, and further enhanced with an Aunt or another party.

Doesn't the latter part contradict the former? If they can be sufficient without them, then they aren't needed.

 

[Redryhno]

This thread has given me the vague and rather sad impression that a lot of people think that men aren't needed to raise kids at all.

...

Having said that, if there is no male-father figure present, then a son will have to make do with what he can glean from the mother figure, or possibly a surrogate male role model/ trusted party. It would be the same if a daughter only had a father to talk about menstruation, for example- not ideal, but hopefully sufficient, and further enhanced with an Aunt or another party.

Doesn't the latter part contradict the former? If they can be sufficient without them, then they aren't needed.

No,not necessarily. Past birth, mothers aren't needed either. The whole point is that having both gives the kid more opportunities and people to rely on for advice as well as experiences that parallel their own they can relate to and build better bonds through.

The latter part of the post holds up as much for a mother figure absent as it does for a father, but since this thread was supposed to be about fathers(-figures) and sons(before it immediately fell into typical Escapist derail for this kind of topic), that's what they're talking about.

 

[the December King]

This thread has given me the vague and rather sad impression that a lot of people think that men aren't needed to raise kids at all.

...

Having said that, if there is no male-father figure present, then a son will have to make do with what he can glean from the mother figure, or possibly a surrogate male role model/ trusted party. It would be the same if a daughter only had a father to talk about menstruation, for example- not ideal, but hopefully sufficient, and further enhanced with an Aunt or another party.

Doesn't the latter part contradict the former? If they can be sufficient without them, then they aren't needed.

Touche- I reckon what I said could be taken that way, darn my wordlessness- I was hoping that someone would help me encourage the notion that it is better for men to participate in raising their kids, and not reinforce a notion that they are unnecessary/useless.

It's a quality of life I'm concerned with, I guess. I loved my father for what he was and what he taught me about being a man, and those were lessons that my mother could not teach me. Their participation in my life made me what I am. And despite what I like to throw around in my humour, I do like myself, and how I turned out.

I still would have most likely 'survived' without my father/father figure, that is true... but I would have missed a great deal. I mean, sons survive without mothers, as well. But I think that 'making do' is not optimal.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Touche- I reckon what I said could be taken that way, darn my wordlessness- I was hoping that someone would help me encourage the notion that it is better for men to participate in raising their kids, and not reinforce a notion that they are unnecessary/useless.

It's a quality of life I'm concerned with, I guess. I loved my father for what he was and what he taught me about being a man, and those were lessons that my mother could not teach me. Their participation in my life made me what I am. And despite what I like to throw around in my humour, I do like myself, and how I turned out.

I still would have most likely 'survived' without my father/father figure, that is true... but I would have missed a great deal. I mean, sons survive without mothers, as well. But I think that 'making do' is not optimal.

Well...I'd hardly say they were useless (barrings individuals that were useless), but on the other hand, praising fatherhood blurs over into condemning non-traditional families.

 

[manic_depressive13]

It would be the same if a daughter only had a father to talk about menstruation, for example- not ideal, but hopefully sufficient, and further enhanced with an Aunt or another party.

What's the problem with that? I never even had a discussion about periods with my mother. Everything I needed to know had been explained in an info day we got in primary school about puberty. That being: "Blood will start leaking out of your vagina and you'll need something to soak it up. It might hurt it might not."

Something I'd argue a man is just as qualified to convey as a woman.

 

[Redryhno]

Touche- I reckon what I said could be taken that way, darn my wordlessness- I was hoping that someone would help me encourage the notion that it is better for men to participate in raising their kids, and not reinforce a notion that they are unnecessary/useless.

It's a quality of life I'm concerned with, I guess. I loved my father for what he was and what he taught me about being a man, and those were lessons that my mother could not teach me. Their participation in my life made me what I am. And despite what I like to throw around in my humour, I do like myself, and how I turned out.

I still would have most likely 'survived' without my father/father figure, that is true... but I would have missed a great deal. I mean, sons survive without mothers, as well. But I think that 'making do' is not optimal.

Well...I'd hardly say they were useless (barrings individuals that were useless), but on the other hand, praising fatherhood blurs over into condemning non-traditional families.

And praising non-traditional families blurs over into condemning the traditional just as easily. And honestly? Traditional families would probably involve parents barely being in their kid's lives at all, so having both parents is just as non-traditional as having two fathers or mothers, one parent families, etc.

 

[the December King]

Touche- I reckon what I said could be taken that way, darn my wordlessness- I was hoping that someone would help me encourage the notion that it is better for men to participate in raising their kids, and not reinforce a notion that they are unnecessary/useless.

It's a quality of life I'm concerned with, I guess. I loved my father for what he was and what he taught me about being a man, and those were lessons that my mother could not teach me. Their participation in my life made me what I am. And despite what I like to throw around in my humour, I do like myself, and how I turned out.

I still would have most likely 'survived' without my father/father figure, that is true... but I would have missed a great deal. I mean, sons survive without mothers, as well. But I think that 'making do' is not optimal.

Well...I'd hardly say they were useless (barrings individuals that were useless), but on the other hand, praising fatherhood blurs over into condemning non-traditional families.

Oh, I don't want to condemn non-traditional families, by any stretch- I hope I'm not coming off as that conservative. I personally think that a child can greatly benefit from the experiences of a parent of the same sex, that's all.

It would be the same if a daughter only had a father to talk about menstruation, for example- not ideal, but hopefully sufficient, and further enhanced with an Aunt or another party.

What's the problem with that? I never even had a discussion about periods with my mother. Everything I needed to know had been explained in an info day we got in primary school about puberty. That being: "Blood will start leaking out of your vagina and you'll need something to soak it up. It might hurt it might not."

Something I'd argue a man is just as qualified to convey as a woman.

Fair enough, manic_depressive13. My point was merely that fathers in child-rearing are not useless and unnecessary, and I was trying to reverse the sexes to emphasize that in a similar situation, a father can be sufficient, too, but perhaps not optimal.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Fair enough, manic_depressive13. My point was merely that fathers in child-rearing are not useless and unnecessary, and I was trying to reverse the sexes to emphasize that in a similar situation, a father can be sufficient, too, but perhaps not optimal.

I understand the point you were making and I thoroughly disagree with it. I don't think the sex of the parent matters as long as they are willing to love, guide and care for the child. Fathers and mothers are as useful and necessary as they make themselves. I don't believe there is inherent value in either role. It depends entirely on the individuals and their attitudes to parenting.

I'm not sure what you think an optimal discussion about periods sounds like but once again, I see no reason why you couldn't get one from a man.

 

[the December King]

Fair enough, manic_depressive13. My point was merely that fathers in child-rearing are not useless and unnecessary, and I was trying to reverse the sexes to emphasize that in a similar situation, a father can be sufficient, too, but perhaps not optimal.

I understand the point you were making and I thoroughly disagree with it. I don't think the sex of the parent matters as long as they are willing to love, guide and care for the child. Fathers and mothers are as useful and necessary as they make themselves. I don't believe there is inherent value in either role. It depends entirely on the individuals and their attitudes to parenting.

I'm not sure what you think an optimal discussion about periods sounds like but once again, I see no reason why you couldn't get one from a man.

And while I agree with the fact that the parents should love guide and care for the child, I believe an experience shared is worth more. EDIT: Sorry, worth more than google and crib notes.

 

[manic_depressive13]

And while I agree with the fact that the parents should love guide and care for the child, I believe an experience shared is worth more. EDIT: Sorry, worth more than google and crib notes.

Why? I'd rather have a father who looked up the google and crib notes in order to tell me that, no, I don't have to bleed the first time I have sex. The hymen breaking is a myth, and if you take it slowly and gently it doesn't need to hurt. Compared to a mother who tells me that it's going to horrible and painful because that's how it was for her, and assumes that's how it's meant to be.

 

[Phasmal]

It's a quality of life I'm concerned with, I guess. I loved my father for what he was and what he taught me about being a man, and those were lessons that my mother could not teach me. Their participation in my life made me what I am. And despite what I like to throw around in my humour, I do like myself, and how I turned out.

I still would have most likely 'survived' without my father/father figure, that is true... but I would have missed a great deal. I mean, sons survive without mothers, as well. But I think that 'making do' is not optimal.

This bit you're speaking on, it kind of sounds like the options are `Good dad` or `No dad`.
In which, it's obvious, good dad is better!

But that is not the reality faced by most of us who grew up in single-parent households, so that rings a little false to me.
It's `the dad you have` or `no dad`. And for a lot of us, it's better to not interact.
That doesn't make us just surviving, or making do. Hell, it'd (in some cases) be worse if we were forced to make do with the father we were given.

I dunno. I feel like it's taken a turn in this thread to suggest those of us with no dad are fundamentally missing something. I never felt that way.
And I just want to say to my fellow single-parented dudes and dudettes, it's cool to not feel like you lost out. There's nothing wrong with being okay.

Captcha- karma points: hah. Yeah, once again, I'm not a dude, but I'd like to be able to participate in this thread in some way, even if some of my speculation may not be on point for those who don't share my gender.