Let?s Get Off the Xbone Hate-Train Already

[stabnex]

I'm speaking as a video game store owner now, and all I'm anticipating from the XB1 is a bunch of ravenous fanboys, and frustrated mothers buying this for their 5 year-old kids giving me quick sales at my store. Followed by losing a LOT of customers over the horrid features you're proudly boasting. The console has been one mistake after another, and very, VERY few rectifications have been made to fix it.

I'm going to put it simply. Microsoft. Hates. Consumers. We are simply ATM's with PMS to them.

 

[TallanKhan]

I am not a xbox ?fanboy?

Yes you are.

Not only are you defending the undefendable, which should be the dictionary definition of fanboy, but if you weren't an Xbox fanboy you would not have felt the need to protest your innocence so many times in your opening post.

Now heres where I stand on the points you raise:

DRM.

My objection to the the 24 hour check in requirment had nothing to do with the reliability of my connection or even the inconvenience of the whole thing. But on a point of general principle I am not going to buy a damn expensive piece of hardware only to be told I need Microsoft's permission to use the device I own. You wouldn't do this for anything else, you wouldn't buy a car that made you call the garage every morning to check in before you could start the ignition would you?

Family Sharing.

The only advantage this had over just lending someone your game (something else Microsoft weren't going to allow you to do)was that two of you could play at the same time. For this to be meaningful you would have to be connected online anyway so this could be easily monitored to keep it free from abuse without the aforementioned DRM,

Kinect.

My objection to the Kinect is specifically because it is packaged with the console itself and it offers the developers more opportunities to incorporate these features into games. With games today, unless the game is specifically designed to be played with just motion controls, the developers have to make games so that they can be played through with a standard controller. With a system like the Kinect built in, all of a sudden, two thirds of the way through my game they can make it not just optional, but mandatory for me to have to stand up and wave my arms around like brain damaged panda bear (and no i don't know why i chose panda bear) in order to progress through the game. Motion sensors are a pointless fad and the sooner we put the whole concept behind us the better.

However, you have neglected possibly my two biggest gripes with the Xbone.

1) The used game restrictions. Yes they may have climbed down on this but the fact that a company would try to dictate how you can dispose of your own property is beyond disgusting.

2) The Xbone is not truly a games console. It is, on a basic level a device designed to sell you subscriptions, be it to Xbox live, sports packages, or streaming services. Games are just an afterthought. Also while I have no interest in the services listed, I am irritated by the fact that most of them are only available in North America yet international customers will still be paying full price for the damn console. As a European customer, that grinds my gears.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

It's not a hate train when people have legitimate reasons to feel derision toward a company and it's decisions.

The Xbone was, and still is (just subdued) a system designed to benefit Microsoft and its affiliates, not you.

It's been evident for years that Microsoft has no intention of making a games console. They've been forcing the multimedia aspect of the 360 for a long time now. The Xbox One is not a gaming console, it is a multimedia hub. Unfortunately, everything it does is already covered by devices most people have already.

So what are the benefits to getting an Xbone? Well, you get the Kinect! Greaaaaaaaat. Especially with the knowledge that the Kinect is mandatory, and will be used to target ads at you. What's that you say? Why are there ads? Because Microsoft wants to get as much money as they possibly can.

Online multiplayer and services like Netflix (which you already pay for) are locked behind Xbox Live Gold. The Xbox One effectively requires a Gold subscription to function the way it's advertised. And you still get ads. And going by the 360's example, you will get a lot of them.

Yes, this is certainly better than what the Xbone could have been, but it's still bad. And the fact that Microsoft thought they could get away with a system-wide DRM says to me that they don't give a flying shit about you, the consumer, the source of their profit.

They see you as a cash cow, and will milk you as hard and as long as they can, and they will never stop unless you start kicking.

And when they finally get kicked, and they stop milking so hard, we're supposed to forgive them and welcome them back with open arms? I'm sorry, but I'd rather keep kicking.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/05/xbox-one-built-with-advertising-in-mind-3870068/

Xbox one created "with advertisers in mind"

 

[Lightknight]

I never got on the hate train so I wouldn't know. I was certainly on the incredulous train and I stopped at a switching station to get onto the bewildering train passing through laughter-ville. Now it looks like I'm merely riding a train to ps4town. What's funny is before all this is I was undecided.

What you've got to look at is what the comparison of the consoles ends up bringing out. In a side by side comparison of everything I care about in consoles, the XBO only occasionally manages to match the ps4 in some characters but falls really short in others. The higher price for less machine has me irked and the forced Kinect 2 has me genuinely concerned about the first year of games and the developers being tempted to repeat a Lair mistake by implementing real body motions into QTE *shudders*. There's also only one XBO exclusive title that I'd miss and three or four on the ps4 not to mention this past generation has really won out the exclusive content on the ps3 so I trust them to do the same this time around like they have on the past 3 systems.

Add that to the shenanigans Microsoft tried to pull and I simply can't do it, I can't give them my money. Not out of hate, but out of a genuine concern for my game library. See, the next generations have no excuse not to be backwards compatible since the current machines are x86. I don't want to trust microsoft with my library of games. Steam, yes, Sony even, yes. But not Microsoft. Not when their snappy comeback comment was something like, "If you want backwards compatibility then you're really backwards". Oh snap Microsoft, you really put me in my place... That's really emblematic of their approach here. Direct combativeness towards customers. I couldn't believe that kind of attitude was signed off on by anyone in authority and that brought around my most bemusement in the whole scenario. Seeing them routinely insult people who were just trying to give them feedback to make the XBO a system they wanted. People WANTED the XBO to be worth buying and they spat on us.

Lastly, and this is important to me. The ps4 is currently outselling the XBO by many multiples (based on Amazon's best sellers of 2013 so far in which ps4 has 4 versions in the top 100 and the XBO only has one which Sony has beat out by three spaces, also the hourly best sellers still have three different console versions above the XBO with the others being sold out. So much so that I expect Sony to have some significant weight to throw around this generation and from what they pulled at the conference it looks like they're going to try and put their competition down this cycle. With the WiiU floundering as per the latest numbers there's almost no other game in town. This generation appears to be Sony's generation to lose and with the way things have been going in the industry I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Sony falters and we find out that all the cables in the ps4 were accidentally made from the souls of lost children or some such nonsense.

 

[Fox12]

For the most part people seem to have stopped hating on the Xbone. Am I going to forgive it, or forget what it tried to do? No, I'm not, because their brand has been stained in my eyes, maybe permanently. Do I go searching out debate forums, start Xbox 1 threads, or troll Microsoft fans? No. I've simply made up my mind that I will not support the Xbox for the foreseeable future, and possibly permanently. If your saying that people should stop filling every discussion board with Xbox 1 hate, than I think they mostly have. A lot of outrage has simmered down. If you're saying we should support the Xbox 1, and purchase the consule, than I have to completely disagree with you. Microsoft has apparently forgotten that we have numerous options when it comes to gaming, and Microsoft isn't even on that list for me. Sony and Steam are my main game providers right now, and Nintendo is still better than Microsoft.

What I don't understand is why I would support a DRM system when I could use Steam, which has a similar but better format, less restrictions, and a massive back catalog. Xbox can't really compete with Steam digitally, and it can't really provide a better experiance than other consoles. It isn't confident enough ti be a digital system, and as a result it had all the downsides of physical media coupled with all the downsides of digital media, with few of the benefite.

I understand your argument about piracy, but I don't pirate games, and I don't feel like having to suffer a lesser game experience due to other peoples piracy. Microsoft prioritized a system that was more beneficial to them then it was to a consumer. That's absolutely fine, but I will personally spend my money on a system that prioritizes my rights over producer rights. I don't feel like dealing with restrictions when playing a gaming system, I want to put my game into the consule and play. The only reason I'm not a big PC gamer is because I value simplicity, otherwise i'll stick to my computer.

 

[AuronFtw]

This attitude right here? This one? It's exactly what both publishers and developers want. They want to pull whatever shit they can and simply sit back in silence, until either:

a) The community simmers down and stops talking about it.

b) The community turns on each other, with one half complaining, and the other half telling the complainers to shut up.


By all means, we should be grateful that Microsoft reversed those god-awful policies, and we should definitely forgive them if they ever apologize for it. But understand that we shouldn't forget what they did either.

Nobody's obligated to be angry or upset, but then again nobody has the right to tell others to shut up or stop talking about something just because THEY don't want to talk about it. Hell, I'm sure there's still people out there upset about Mass Effect 3's ending. I personally don't want to talk about it, but they can talk about it if they wish.

This. Quoted in full for truthiness.

The second you start saying "well, it wasn't THAT bad" when talking about Microsoft's plan to completely shit all over consumer rights on a console, do you know what you're enabling? The company to turn right around and implement even MORE distasteful bullshit in the name of profit.

Because that's what it's all about. It's not about giving players tools or options. It's not even really about piracy, which is an insignificant issue to most huge devs/publishers. It's about controlling every aspect of your console, removing all the decisions from the consumer, and telling them what to buy and how much to pay for it. When you're sucking at their teat, completely unable to make any decisions for yourself, they have your wallet right where they want it, and they have a customer so used to being shit on he can't even tell the difference anymore.

So yes. That is what you are supporting when you tell people to "get off the xbone hate train." You are supporting a near-fascist publisher control over every aspect of your console; a publisher who has already proven their complete lack of respect for you as a consumer. It's a free world, so you can support it if you want... but don't sugar coat it. It's a fucking stupid thing to support. As long as you know that and don't post bullshit threads calling it something other than what it is, go ahead and support it. It's your ass on the line. And it's your ass that's going to come crawling back in a few years wondering where it all went wrong when the publishers invent some other money-grubbing scheme that completely ruins your consoles, and felt they could get away with it because people like you were totally cool with the Xbone and all its draconian corporation-benefitting, consumer-shafting DRM.

 

[Caiphus]

I'm never one to jump on internet hate bandwagons. Even so, I wasn't a fan of Microsoft's apparent lack of empathy towards the core gaming audience. That, and their whole PR machine and corporate culture reeked of "I have a great internet connection, and so does everyone else that I know, so fuck the legitimate concerns of those that aren't like me."

So yeah, it's good that they've been taken down a peg or two. Is the Xbone in its current state worthy of ridicule? Not really, as John Carmack said, it's pretty similar to the PS4 now. I'm still perfectly happy for people to keep putting the boot in though. Because Microsoft really did dig their own grave with this one.

 

[Black Reaper]

Personally, i hate the Ps4, not the Xbone
I never hated the Xbone because i wasn't too attached to the 360, i barely ever use it, but i hate the Ps4 because i liked the Ps3, it was my favorite console this gen, mainly because i didn't have to pay for the internet, and the share button looks completely useless to the gameplay

 

[Saltyk]

But it's comfy. The hate train has leather seats and they're about to serve drinks.

Look, the internet connection DRM thing was a complete deal breaker for me. I am not buying a console that will stop working if my internet goes. Fucking period. And that's not even considering the possibility of Microsoft's servers having issues.

Yes, they reversed it. But only because everyone screamed at them. They wanted to do it. Going back on their stupid decision doesn't get them positive points in my book, it just takes away their negative points and returns them to zero.

Then there's the $100 more expensive thing. No, a hundred bucks is not going to break my bank. But neither would flushing a hundred dollar note down the toilet. Still don't want to do it. If I don't have to spend that extra $100, and I don't, then chances are I'm not going to.

As for games, I haven't seen a single thing of interest from Microsft thus far. That Sunset Overdrive trailer looked vaguely cool I guess, but it was a pre-rendered affair with no gameplay. I learned my lesson from Dead Island.

To be fair, Sony haven't impressed me on the games front either.

So no, at this point I am still pretty firmly in Fuck Microsoft territory. Choo! Choo!

Man, I knew I should have sprung for the First Class ticket. All they're giving us back in Coach is stale peanuts.

Like you, I've found the Microsoft games to be a joke. Might as well take out each Kinect game and cut that list the OP had down further. Sony isn't doing great, but they do have inFamous. And that warms the black void that I refer to as a heart.

And you pretty much said everything else I was going to say. So, job well done.

 

[Lightknight]

I'm never one to jump on internet hate bandwagons. Even so, I wasn't a fan of Microsoft's apparent lack of empathy towards the core gaming audience. That, and their whole PR machine and corporate culture reeked of "I have a great internet connection, and so does everyone else that I know, so fuck the legitimate concerns of those that aren't like me."

So yeah, it's good that they've been taken down a peg or two. Is the Xbone in its current state worthy of ridicule? Not really, as John Carmack said, it's pretty similar to the PS4 now. I'm still perfectly happy for people to keep putting the boot in though. Because Microsoft really did dig their own grave with this one.

That's really the crux of it. If they had just come across as people who had an idea they thought would be good and were surprised by it and then changed it out of surprise at the response, that would be easily forgivable. But instead, they readily insulted people. Calling people who wanted backwards compatible themselves backwards for wanting it. Telling people who say they don't have a good internet connection that they have a product for them and it's called the 360 as well as dropping off support for entire nations (even at least one developer friendly one) to suit their needs.

It was crazy how almost antagonistic they were towards us. Those of us who were 360 fans, like myself, got completely turned off to the XBO if for nothing else than that. Add in all the other reasons, specs and exclusives and pricing, and it's a done deal.

 

[Nazulu]

Poor choice of words straight off the bat. Hate train is used by assholes to generalise people who they believe just enjoy hating things for no good reason. Yeah, don't use that anymore.

Just about everything has been said but there is something I'd like to put in my own words. When they first brought out all that information about the DRM and what not, that was an incredible amount of restrictions. It literally lost it's benefits over a computer because it had a big list of rules you need to go through just to see what you couldn't do anymore. This is the opposite of innovation really. Yeah, it had that ONE standout feature that wasn't all what it was cracked up to be, do you really think 'that' would make it up for everyone? If they are going to try and innovate then they should try to include everyone and make appealing as possible. What they were actually trying to do here is gain more control, and they really put up a fight for it don't forget.

I go completely against your post by saying we shouldn't trust them at all. The fact that they still won't drop the Kinnect or at least stop it from being mandatory to power it up, especially when everyone knows a very large amount of people does not care for it just shows they don't care for who they inconvenience. OPTION is the magical word here. Creating as many options to suit everyone is good innovation. They will prove to everyone here that they want to make the perfect experience for us when they cut all this shit out of the deal. I should never have to tell myself what I can put up with.

 

[therightpirate]

Family Sharing

Now this is what excited me most out of everything.

There was a lot of speculation about what this really means, but I?ll break it down. It meant you and 10 people could be in a ?family? and share your libraries. You and the ?parent? could play the same game together, and anyone in the family could play the full version of the games. I know there was some debate if this meant just a trial run of the game, but Spenser confirmed with Kotaku in a interview that it was the full game, no restrictions. Since all the policies were taken out, we will never see how that would have looked like. Needless-to-say it was going to be an exciting new feature that everyone would enjoy.

The rumor mill says that they may bring this back in some variant so I hope that will happen. I would love to see this work, and even better if it?s incorporated with physical disks. I love my physical disks.

Kyle Calzavara
@Kylzavara

Does no one but me understand that Family Sharing was not going to be as good as what it promised to be and that it would just wind up as friends with Gold subscriptions sharing games. Although MS did not go into detail on it, think about what it means. 10 accounts would be able to share games that they bought. Sounds great right. Meaning my kids, my brother, my wife, etc can all get access to my digital game library. Well here's where the hiccup is. I am more than sure that in order to access this everyone in your "Family" would require to have a Gold subscription to access your content. I fundamentally believe that MS was going to use Family Sharing as a way of getting more people to spend on Gold subscriptions as it makes sense. Lure people in to just spend $60 to play a friends games and that cost makes sense right? If I have friends with games I want to play it makes a lot more sense to pay for a Gold subscription so I can play their games rather than spend that same amount on the game itself. The other issue is that only one other person other than the owner would be allowed to play the game at a time. So yes you could have 10 friends/family who you shared games with but you couldn't have more than one of those playing the game at the same time. I have no clue how that aspect was going to work. But can you imagine the frustration when a new game comes out and a buddy of mine has it and me and 4 of his buddies all want to play it at the same time? How do we arrange to share it? If we don't live at the same address it becomes a nightmare. And ultimately Family Sharing was about grabbing Gold Subscriptions to MS coffers rather than the developers. If the whole notion of 10 people sharing a game caught on developers would just institute content-restriction like online passes like we've seen this generation as a means of recouping money. It would have been a system that would have made games worse and not better.

What they should do is bring back the Family Gold price scheme - which they got rid of. And everyone under those sort of accounts should be able to just access one marketplace account together so that content bought on one Family Gold account goes to all other accounts.

Basically Family Sharing was going to be a hassle and not as great as they were making it out to be. There are better systems of sharing games that can and should be developed. I'm hoping that this one has bit the dust because I think it would have been a fundamentally poorly designed system. All digital content systems should be easy for end-users and not overly complicated and frustrating. Family Sharing is and will forever be terrible. End of story.

 

[Boogie Knight]

I can understand why Xbox loyalists would want to give Microsoft another chance, many people tend to return to their abuser. However, setting aside the fact that Microsoft built the most evil game console ever which also seemed to be designed for some mystical demographic which only exists in commercials and snarky peoples' depictions of old fashioned people... They were still complete jerks when people aired their concerns about the console and the precedent it was setting.

The Xbox One, even with many onerous features removed, still deserves to fail and probably should fail in order to set an example for the suits that there is only so much abuse that gamers are willing to take. It's very simple: we sacrifice whatever goodies we may be tempted with by not supporting the Xbox One this generation and in the generation which follows we can hope to see a slightly less consumer antagonistic attitude among those who are still around. Not a perfect plan, but Microsoft really turned its nose at those most loyal to them and they really deserve to feel pain.

 

[Erttheking]

I went to half a dozen different retailers about a month ago, with the intent to fully pay off a PS4 pre-order, 3 games and buy a PS Vita with Persona 4 Golden. Everyone said they were sold out, and no more consoles would be available until 2014.

So I ordered an Xbox One instead.

It was always a split decision about what to buy. All the PS4 games I wanted were 3rd party anyway. The only first party game I wanted was Infamous (but even then, I absolutely loved the first one, but disliked the second). Xbox has TitanFall as well. Yes, my PC is more than capable of playing TitanFall, but sometimes I want to play a game hooked into the surround sound, on a massive TV in my reclining sofa chair.

Also.. lol at the poster above me railing on DRM, but then says that Steam is one reason he games. Irony much?

No, it is not irony. Steam is not comparable to the Xbox One's DRM in any way shape or form.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7586-Why-PC-Gaming-Gets-Away-With-It

OT: Sorry OP, Microsoft's massive screw up showed exactly what they think of me. They think I'm a walking wallet with the IQ of a mentally challenged sloth. I want nothing to do with their damn VCR.

 

[w9496]

I'm waiting to see how the Xbox Ones games stack up to the PS4s. I really have an eye on Dead Rising 3, but some stuff has me worried. Why did it need airstrikes?

The only thing I would wish of the Xbox One haters is to stop calling it the "XBone". I hate stuff too, but at least I don't make immature petty insults at it because I don't like it.

 

[N72013]

Nice how people are trying to stop the "hate train" but that train has already left the station, i remember the PS3 had a hate train but loyal fans stayed with it, so stop posting threads on forums and be loyal and proud of the console you chose

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

I'm never one to jump on internet hate bandwagons. Even so, I wasn't a fan of Microsoft's apparent lack of empathy towards the core gaming audience. That, and their whole PR machine and corporate culture reeked of "I have a great internet connection, and so does everyone else that I know, so fuck the legitimate concerns of those that aren't like me."

So yeah, it's good that they've been taken down a peg or two. Is the Xbone in its current state worthy of ridicule? Not really, as John Carmack said, it's pretty similar to the PS4 now. I'm still perfectly happy for people to keep putting the boot in though. Because Microsoft really did dig their own grave with this one.

That's really the crux of it. If they had just come across as people who had an idea they thought would be good and were surprised by it and then changed it out of surprise at the response, that would be easily forgivable. But instead, they readily insulted people. Calling people who wanted backwards compatible themselves backwards for wanting it. Telling people who say they don't have a good internet connection that they have a product for them and it's called the 360 as well as dropping off support for entire nations (even at least one developer friendly one) to suit their needs.

It was crazy how almost antagonistic they were towards us. Those of us who were 360 fans, like myself, got completely turned off to the XBO if for nothing else than that. Add in all the other reasons, specs and exclusives and pricing, and it's a done deal.

The thing which has stuck in my head is this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo

this dickhead actually pulled the microphone out of angry joes hand and attacked him even though this was the softest interview I have ever seen.

I mean we aren't talking about this kind of interview after all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhbg80E2JE

angry joe was REALLY soft, backing off as soon as the twit even looked at him wrong and he STILL attacked him

 

[Lightknight]

The thing which has stuck in my head is this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo

this dickhead actually pulled the microphone out of angry joes hand and attacked him even though this was the softest interview I have ever seen.

That's really awkward. It certainly ended up being a lie (as it was immediately reversed).

Haha, it actually doesn't limit it? He actually said that requiring online connectivity all the time doesn't limit it? No, things being an option are what opens up the options. Not things being mandatory.

He talks so much about it being the future. It's like he forgets that the customers are in the now.

angry joe was REALLY soft, backing off as soon as the twit even looked at him wrong and he STILL attacked him

Yeah, he was all smiles and seemed really passionate about XBO being the console it could be. That really came across. I do feel like this video shows a bit of rudeness to an individual but I personally place their insults of entire segments of their customer bases to be even worse.

 

[Seracen]

To reiterate what others have intimated: why? It's a comfy and fun ride on this train!

On a more serious note: if I perceive someone as having betrayed me, it'll take quite a bit of work for me to trust them again.

For instance, if my fave restaurant tells me that I can no longer get the signature dish, unless I pay for a membership, and am required to frequent their establishment X times a week, I will kindly tell them to screw off.

Regardless of whether I'd have done this naturally or not, the hubris would have upset me. Now say they recanted, I STILL wouldn't frequent the establishment, JUST because of the sour taste left behind from the debacle.

So, I MAY actually engage in the XBONE, but not likely, and certainly not for a few years (or unless M$ can prove to me that they won't do ANOTHER 180).

Barring that, perhaps I'll wait for a jailbreak on the thing, just so I can guarantee the removal of unwanted features (Kinect Integration always off? Yes please. Ads Blocked? Absolutely).

Case in point: which Chrome User doesn't use Ad Block, in all honesty? I'll be sure to click the links on my fave regular sites, but I'll be damned if I will watch a commercial to watch a commercial (trailer) on Youtube.

 

[Ieyke]

NOPE.

Fuck the Xbox One.