Let us talk, you and I, about Blizzard

[Verbage]

Also since 2001, they have released 3 games, WC3 WOW and SC2 (and X number of expansions). Also the thoughts of WOW being the same IP and a sequel to WC3 is debateable both whether it is, and also that if it is does it have the same affect within your argument as other sequels such as SC2. Now i dont know economics, but wouldnt the EAsports/COD model of 1 game every year be a much larger money making scheme?

That blizzard doesnt inovate also seems incorrect. SC2's match making, league system, and single player capaign were all massive leaps in the RTS genre. WOW as far as MMO accessability and playability must be considered inovative.

I dont think blizzard are flawless, but i think they stand far above other companies who you should be hating on.

 

[Jefferist]

Doesn't seem like trolling to me, so it's definetly not obvious. I hate it how people who disagree with others seem to stamp "Troll" on their forehead to avoid confrontation and dismiss other ideas as foolish.

 

[Plurralbles]

you're saying words but I dont' give a fuck.

SCII isn't what we all wanted, but there's still two expansions and possible patching so.. yeah.

ACTIVISION is the worst thing to happent o video games... Becuase it ruined Blizzard. Blizzard is still awesome.

 

[dyre]

Regarding Blizzard having only two or three projects:
Don't blame Blizzard; blame gamers. They're the ones who create the insane demand for WoW and Starcraft. A company that purposely ignores the demands of its consumers is both irresponsible and stupid. You do realize that corporations are made to make a profit, not "move the industry forward," right? Moving the industry forward is a result of competition, and it's not really Blizzard's fault that most of the MMORPG competition is such garbage...

Regarding WoW just being a glorified Skinner Box:
I saw that particular Extra Credits episode on the Skinner Box, and I must say it doesn't describe WoW as much as you might think it does. I played WoW for about 4 months, and although they do a pretty standard "kill some bad guys, earn some gear, repeat" stuff, it's also definitely inherently (as opposed to instrumentally) rewarding to winning a PvP Arena (forgot exactly what it's called) match or winning a raid.

Basically, when it comes to RPGs, you either reward people with a good storyline (go Bioware), good gear (Skinner Box), or just make the gameplay fun enough that people want to do it anyway. And while Blizzard does have good gear as a big incentive to complete quests/dungeons, I think it puts a solid effort into making it inherently fun.

To be honest, it seems like most of your post is basically just regurgitating Extra Credits stuff. It's a nice show, but it really tends to oversimplify games/developers that it doesn't like.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

Unless you post a disagreement on their forum. Then they ban you.

If you got banned from their forums, then you did something to deserve it. I have never heard of anyone being wrongfully banned from the official WoW forums. You were likely posting something similar to the OP, which is nothing but a biased hate speech. That sort of thing should get you banned, particularly on the very forums of the company you are spouting non-sense about.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

It seems like you're saying Blizz shouldn't make games anymore because they aren't pushing the envelope; isn't that kinda like saying a painter who's making a living off of selling his paintings and is generally well respected in the art community should just stop because he isn't Da Vinci?

and even then, Da Vinci was more of an inventor than a painter.

honestly, yes, blizzard only has 3 core IPs and a development schedule that must be built around glaciers circumnavigating the globe.

but they are REALLY good at what they do, and i wouldn't knock them for it. just like no one EVER knocks Valve for never having made anything other than shooters or games to show off the source engine.

Doesn't seem like trolling to me, so it's definetly not obvious. I hate it how people who disagree with others seem to stamp "Troll" on their forehead to avoid confrontation and dismiss other ideas as foolish.

yep. that happens to me all the time. usually that pisses me off so much that i end up on probation

yet whenever i report others for saying worse things than me or having lower-content or even MORE meaningless posts they never get in trouble :,(

 

[Azaraxzealot]

you're saying words but I dont' give a fuck.

SCII isn't what we all wanted, but there's still two expansions and possible patching so.. yeah.

ACTIVISION is the worst thing to happent o video games... Becuase it ruined Blizzard. Blizzard is still awesome.

hear hear.

DAMN THEM FOR REMOVING LAN JUST TO "COMBAT PIRACY!"

makes me never want to buy the game... even though the map editor is REALLY FUCKING TEMPTING!

(p.s. i only buy blizzard games to mod them)

 

[timeadept]

Double Snip

Actually no it wouldn't. Because Blizzard is in control of when they can start weening people off of W.O.W. they have whole divisions of people dedicated to this, and are more than likely noticing the decline in W.O.W. sales. So when Blizzard "The Foremost Authority" on the M.M.O.R.P.G. speaks fans will listen.

But weening people off one MMO for another, untested MMO would be like taking out your own heart and replacing with another heart before you die and hope the new one works as a replacement, and Blizzard didn't get to where they are today with shoddy business tactics.

SWG has proven that it is possible to kill an MMO overnight. Within a week of the combat upgrade, 90% of SWG's players left. No crap.

Blizz can kill WoW on purpose, and show their new MMO is much like WoW. Those crazy WoW fans need their fix, so they'll grudgingly buy it, until they became the fanbase for that game. The new MMO brings in new blood, and Blizz can force the old blood into it as well.

Am I saying this is likely? No.

Is it possible and probably easy to do, however? YES!

If Blizz kills WoW intentionally and does what you're suggesting, do you think the players that left them would trust them enough to buy their new game? They might all go to LotRO or something(GW2 should be out by then too...). Even if Blizzard can pull it off subtly i think they would risk a great deal of their current fanbase wandering and trying something new by a different company.

(fun fact, you know that anti-spam thing with the random words? Well i wish i could imbed this screenshot but i just had to type "Lord porkstr")

 

[timeadept]

Regarding Blizzard having only two or three projects:
Don't blame Blizzard; blame gamers. They're the ones who create the insane demand for WoW and Starcraft. A company that purposely ignores the demands of its consumers is both irresponsible and stupid. You do realize that corporations are made to make a profit, not "move the industry forward," right? Moving the industry forward is a result of competition, and it's not really Blizzard's fault that most of the MMORPG competition is such garbage...

Regarding WoW just being a glorified Skinner Box:
I saw that particular Extra Credits episode on the Skinner Box, and I must say it doesn't describe WoW as much as you might think it does. I played WoW for about 4 months, and although they do a pretty standard "kill some bad guys, earn some gear, repeat" stuff, it's also definitely inherently (as opposed to instrumentally) rewarding to winning a PvP Arena (forgot exactly what it's called) match or winning a raid.

Basically, when it comes to RPGs, you either reward people with a good storyline (go Bioware), good gear (Skinner Box), or just make the gameplay fun enough that people want to do it anyway. And while Blizzard does have good gear as a big incentive to complete quests/dungeons, I think it puts a solid effort into making it inherently fun.

To be honest, it seems like most of your post is basically just regurgitating Extra Credits stuff. It's a nice show, but it really tends to oversimplify games/developers that it doesn't like.

I have to agree with the skinner box thing, though i didn't include it when i summoned that wall of text back there. Yeah my main reason for playing WoW was that when i got done lvling and building my character, the main thing i wanted to do was use him in PvP. I wanted to test my build and skills against others. Unfortunately though, those are the two things that matter the least when it comes to PvP. They're nothing if you don't have the gear. Trying... so... hard... to resist... going into that rant... *PHEW!*

 

[mrhateful]

There is a complete difference between a sequel created shortly after the first and one created 10 years after the first. In the shortly after group then yes your complaints would have been valid for instance Dead Space 2 was horrid because you played against the same mobs, with identical gameplay, mechanics and even some weapon. However when you after 10 years create a sequel that is different in anyway with only the title in common then your arguments really don't hold up.

 

[Rylot]

snip

Yeah, okay Da Vinci as a painter doesn't work as well as an inventor. Should a gone with that.

 

[LoFr3Eq]

All will be forgiven if they just bring back Lurkers in the next patch.

 

[TilMorrow]

Well I'd rather have three stable IPs that are fun to play, don't break in the first ten minutes and are worthwhile than 10 IPs being released a year with only 1 or 2 of them being any good and actually playable. It may look like Blizzard is staying where the money is and in a sense that is true (mostly due to Activision of course) but they are also trying to keep the fans of their products entertained and always produce a quality and engaging experience unless you dislike the kind of games they have released. Also your comment on them not advancing the graphics to 2D or 3D was a little irrelevant. They a game development company not a graphics card company. They use whatever technology has been developed for graphics. And their new MMO IP is probably going to be different from WoW. They would hardly produce a new MMO only to have it be worst than WoW or even similar as it would be pointless at attracting new customers and cause them to lose money and customers because of it.

Edit: And the skinner box concept only works if the reward is always given for an action. I can see how you can associate it with WoW's quest system and possibly the leveling system with talent points but the Skinner Box concept isn't what keeps people playing.

 

[crystalsnow]

I don't particularly like Blizzard either, but let me just ask you this.

What really is anyone besides a select handful doing to push the medium forward?

 

[dyre]

Regarding Blizzard having only two or three projects:
Don't blame Blizzard; blame gamers. They're the ones who create the insane demand for WoW and Starcraft. A company that purposely ignores the demands of its consumers is both irresponsible and stupid. You do realize that corporations are made to make a profit, not "move the industry forward," right? Moving the industry forward is a result of competition, and it's not really Blizzard's fault that most of the MMORPG competition is such garbage...

Regarding WoW just being a glorified Skinner Box:
I saw that particular Extra Credits episode on the Skinner Box, and I must say it doesn't describe WoW as much as you might think it does. I played WoW for about 4 months, and although they do a pretty standard "kill some bad guys, earn some gear, repeat" stuff, it's also definitely inherently (as opposed to instrumentally) rewarding to winning a PvP Arena (forgot exactly what it's called) match or winning a raid.

Basically, when it comes to RPGs, you either reward people with a good storyline (go Bioware), good gear (Skinner Box), or just make the gameplay fun enough that people want to do it anyway. And while Blizzard does have good gear as a big incentive to complete quests/dungeons, I think it puts a solid effort into making it inherently fun.

To be honest, it seems like most of your post is basically just regurgitating Extra Credits stuff. It's a nice show, but it really tends to oversimplify games/developers that it doesn't like.

I have to agree with the skinner box thing, though i didn't include it when i summoned that wall of text back there. Yeah my main reason for playing WoW was that when i got done lvling and building my character, the main thing i wanted to do was use him in PvP. I wanted to test my build and skills against others. Unfortunately though, those are the two things that matter the least when it comes to PvP. They're nothing if you don't have the gear. Trying... so... hard... to resist... going into that rant... *PHEW!*

Yes, but the point of the skinner box is that you would have to value the gear itself as the end goal, not the ability to win PvP. If you use the gear as a means to do well in PvP, because you enjoy PvP for what it is, then the skinner box no longer applies to the game.

It's sort of like someone doing a job just because he wants to hoard up money, vs someone who does a job so he can earn the money to send his kids to college, take his family on a vacation, etc. Only the first case is an example of the skinner box

 

[timeadept]

Regarding Blizzard having only two or three projects:
Don't blame Blizzard; blame gamers. They're the ones who create the insane demand for WoW and Starcraft. A company that purposely ignores the demands of its consumers is both irresponsible and stupid. You do realize that corporations are made to make a profit, not "move the industry forward," right? Moving the industry forward is a result of competition, and it's not really Blizzard's fault that most of the MMORPG competition is such garbage...

Regarding WoW just being a glorified Skinner Box:
I saw that particular Extra Credits episode on the Skinner Box, and I must say it doesn't describe WoW as much as you might think it does. I played WoW for about 4 months, and although they do a pretty standard "kill some bad guys, earn some gear, repeat" stuff, it's also definitely inherently (as opposed to instrumentally) rewarding to winning a PvP Arena (forgot exactly what it's called) match or winning a raid.

Basically, when it comes to RPGs, you either reward people with a good storyline (go Bioware), good gear (Skinner Box), or just make the gameplay fun enough that people want to do it anyway. And while Blizzard does have good gear as a big incentive to complete quests/dungeons, I think it puts a solid effort into making it inherently fun.

To be honest, it seems like most of your post is basically just regurgitating Extra Credits stuff. It's a nice show, but it really tends to oversimplify games/developers that it doesn't like.

I have to agree with the skinner box thing, though i didn't include it when i summoned that wall of text back there. Yeah my main reason for playing WoW was that when i got done lvling and building my character, the main thing i wanted to do was use him in PvP. I wanted to test my build and skills against others. Unfortunately though, those are the two things that matter the least when it comes to PvP. They're nothing if you don't have the gear. Trying... so... hard... to resist... going into that rant... *PHEW!*

Yes, but the point of the skinner box is that you would have to value the gear itself as the end goal, not the ability to win PvP. If you use the gear as a means to do well in PvP, because you enjoy PvP for what it is, then the skinner box no longer applies to the game.

It's sort of like someone doing a job just because he wants to hoard up money, vs someone who does a job so he can earn the money to send his kids to college, take his family on a vacation, etc. Only the first case is an example of the skinner box

In which case the skinner box model doesn't apply to me because i refused to accept it and wanted to play the game for the game that was there, not the reward in gear and e-penis.

I finally stopped playing WoW because i got tired of working for gear that i never obtained, and so i could never be competitive in PvP. Without the numerical possibility of victory (or defeat in some cases) there was simply *no* fun to be had for me in PvP.

I'm sorry if i missed the point, it's late and i have a project i should be doing.

*EDIT*
I guess my point was that i didn't play the game just to play it, i had a goal that was outside the game, and so i wanted to put myself up as an example of someone who could play it to the end with never having being taken in by the skinner box model. More to the point, that model does not apply to everyone who plays the game.

 

[dyre]

Regarding Blizzard having only two or three projects:
Don't blame Blizzard; blame gamers. They're the ones who create the insane demand for WoW and Starcraft. A company that purposely ignores the demands of its consumers is both irresponsible and stupid. You do realize that corporations are made to make a profit, not "move the industry forward," right? Moving the industry forward is a result of competition, and it's not really Blizzard's fault that most of the MMORPG competition is such garbage...

Regarding WoW just being a glorified Skinner Box:
I saw that particular Extra Credits episode on the Skinner Box, and I must say it doesn't describe WoW as much as you might think it does. I played WoW for about 4 months, and although they do a pretty standard "kill some bad guys, earn some gear, repeat" stuff, it's also definitely inherently (as opposed to instrumentally) rewarding to winning a PvP Arena (forgot exactly what it's called) match or winning a raid.

Basically, when it comes to RPGs, you either reward people with a good storyline (go Bioware), good gear (Skinner Box), or just make the gameplay fun enough that people want to do it anyway. And while Blizzard does have good gear as a big incentive to complete quests/dungeons, I think it puts a solid effort into making it inherently fun.

To be honest, it seems like most of your post is basically just regurgitating Extra Credits stuff. It's a nice show, but it really tends to oversimplify games/developers that it doesn't like.

I have to agree with the skinner box thing, though i didn't include it when i summoned that wall of text back there. Yeah my main reason for playing WoW was that when i got done lvling and building my character, the main thing i wanted to do was use him in PvP. I wanted to test my build and skills against others. Unfortunately though, those are the two things that matter the least when it comes to PvP. They're nothing if you don't have the gear. Trying... so... hard... to resist... going into that rant... *PHEW!*

Yes, but the point of the skinner box is that you would have to value the gear itself as the end goal, not the ability to win PvP. If you use the gear as a means to do well in PvP, because you enjoy PvP for what it is, then the skinner box no longer applies to the game.

It's sort of like someone doing a job just because he wants to hoard up money, vs someone who does a job so he can earn the money to send his kids to college, take his family on a vacation, etc. Only the first case is an example of the skinner box

In which case the skinner box model doesn't apply to me because i refused to accept it and wanted to play the game for the game that was there, not the reward in gear and e-penis.

I finally stopped playing WoW because i got tired of working for gear that i never obtained, and so i could never be competitive in PvP. Without the numerical possibility of victory (or defeat in some cases) there was simply fun to be had for me in PvP.

I'm sorry if i missed the point, it's late and i have a project i should be doing.

Yeah...we're saying the same thing here...go back to finishing your project

WoW may have flaws, but it's unfair to just call it a skinner box, as the OP did.

 

[SovietSecrets]

Right so what big name company doesn't do this with a few of their games? At least Blizzard games are pretty damn good and they spend time working on it. Valve still sits with Half-Life while introducing Portal as something new and how long did it take them to do that? EA sits with Battlefield, Medal of Honor, and so many sport games until Crysis came out and now shall be another safe game they can hide behind. None of these companies are really pushing the industry forward. Shit Nintendo hides behind Mario, Zelda, and Metroid. No one is really moving the industry forward, but we are getting a bunch of great fucking games out of it and I have no problem with it.

 

[Rayne870]

Attacking Blizzard because they only have 3 IPs going at a time is pretty stupid, considering most developers only have 1 flagship IP at a time.

I will cite Mr. MovieBob's "The Big Picture" episode "The P.C. Gamer is Dead--Long Live the P.C. Gamer" as supporting opinion.

You do realize that MB has absolutely no clue what he was saying in that video, right?

Like I mean absolutely nothing.

Agreed here on both points points.

Furthermore WTH, this has got to be one of the most ill-contrived and ill-supported rants I have ever read. The only way it could be more wrong is if every word was obviously misspelled and posted in random capitalization.

 

[Zaik]

Yeah, i'll give you that, if every developer ran like Blizzard we'd probably have about 50 games per console generation come out.

Without them nobody would have a clue wtf a well developed, polished game was though. Blizzard's the expensive steak on the menu. Takes a long ass time for them to cook it right, and it almost feels like it's not worth the wait/cost before it gets there, but once it does, damn was that a good steak.

You might not realize that Taco Bell uses grade F meat without that steak, y'know?