let's debate piracy and the hypocrisy behind it

[Regiment]

If you can't afford to play video games, you don't get to play video games. Using the man-stealing-bread-to-feed-his-family argument fails because games are nonessential.

Dear sir excuse me for saying but you fail. we already agreed on the fact that jack situation in Europe, where computers and internet are crazy cheap [because people don't buy they have no alternative but to lower prices] while food is at a steady price. now gaming costs extreme amount of cash. so no jack is not entirely fictional. he representing at least 50 people i know from my high-school alone.

I don't see how this justifies piracy (or how I "fail"). It's certainly not right for games to be ludicrously expensive, but even that doesn't mean you can steal them. If games were entirely unavailable wherever you are, I might argue that it's a gray area, but since they're only difficult to obtain, I find it hard to support this. I will say that you're not part of the problem (people stealing games because they don't feel like paying); you're part of a completely different problem (overpriced video games in wherever you're located). Unfortunately, even this doesn't really justify piracy.

now one of my problems: why the hate? you are all bashing on pirates without the smallest regard for the person that pirates. yes some are retards with their vocabulary consisting entirely of swear words written in leet, but maybe some are good people that pirate for lack of alternative. instead of bashing you should try and help.[ this is a word for the developers as well] not all pirates are idiots like not all gamers are intelligent human beings. ex: original wow [and you shall see that there are morons] and some wow private servers [where you shall see that some crave for an intelligent chat and are polite and stuff]. pirates are like the poor children playing with cheap replicas of the toys the rich kids have. the pirates that can afford a game but not buy it and instead pirate are idiots.

The problem is that most pirates are jerks who illegally download games just because they can, despite having the means to get them legally, and either use it as an excuse to thumb their noses at the system or just don't care. Now, you and your situation are definitely different (you're not one of the jerks), but the jerks are the majority and you're (unfortunately) being lumped in with them. Not to mention that you're kind of asking for support for someone who's committing a crime.

 

[Danglybits]

Stealing is wrong. Piracy is stealing. /thread.

snip

I am well aware of the discrepancy between affordability of necessities and broadband and computers in many parts of the world thank you. It does not change the fact that this hypothetical person would be wiser to save what money he would spend on games and such for things he actually needs. Just because its cheap doesn't mean it's not a waste of money if you need other things.

You also have no clue what I would do in his situation. I have stopped buying games and canceled subscriptions when I couldn't afford them. "No other choice"? Please, Jacks aren't noble, do what ever it takes freedom fighters. They're people who don't have the scratch for something that they want so they steal it.

snip

If Jack and his country are so destitute, then he really doesn't have the time or the money to spend on games does he? Games are a luxury item and it sucks that there are haves and have-nots but at what point did not having enough money for something mean that you got it for free?

Yes, I pirate. All kinds of stuff, mostly anime and manga. The odd video game here and there. Yes I think it's wrong, but I don't particularly care. Most of the stuff I pirate I don't have the opportunity to pay for in the first place. I would stop if I really feared legal action. I don't think that there's anything that would make me pirate more, if I want something that badly and deem it worthy of my time I tend to pay for it.

guys i honestly love you

Aren't you just so cute! You think they're comparable don't you? You thought I said piracy was wrong because I didn't do it? No, what I do or don't do does not change that your hypothetical is bullshit. If you can show me where I can get a legitimate region one subtitled copy of Rose of Versailles or Oruchuban Ebichu I'd like to hear it.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

People seem to not quite understand infringement, "Piracy"(non bootleging) is to stealing as attacking a robber is assault.One can try and make it a zero thought black and white issue if one insists on using only 50 IQ points to think....

 

[JonnWood]

Doesn't mean grey doesn't exist, some just choose not to see it. And im not saying grey is white, just that grey exists.

And I agree that piracy is getting for free, something you should have paid for, but the main point of that was that im sick of people comparing it to actual theft of physical items. There is a difference between the two, and that has to be admitted to properly discuss the situaton.

I just did, with the theatre analogy. In either case, you're taking something you didn't pay for.

People seem to not quite understand infringement, "Piracy"(non bootleging) is to stealing as attacking a robber is assault.One can try and make it a zero thought black and white issue if one insists on using only 50 IQ points to think....

Logical fallacies: Bizzare definition, poisoning the well.

"oh, are you saying you've never illegally downloaded a song?"
no i'm not. i'm saying i downloaded some, and bought the ones i liked from things like Itunes and other services (and threw the others in the bin, no need for them to take up space on my hard drive).

Then you're a hypocrite if you rant, rave and hate on the people who pirate games to see whether they like'em or not.

YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE

Argument by Bizarre Definition: Being a hypocrite means you can't condemn someone for doing something wrong, so everyone who disagrees with me must be a hypocrite so they can't condemn me.

it's not intent that's important it's motive.

Also known as the exact same thing.

everybody who buy/pirates/steals [from a shop] a game "wants" the games but they do it according their mentality or financial status. pirates who download a game where the alternative is buying a 100$ may not by Mother Teressa but they are not demons.

No, just selfish. I can't afford a lot of games, so what do I do? Not buy a lot of games.

From a point of view he is a victim and if developers want sales and make a small compromise they might get some profit in a place where it wasn't.

Whose point of view, exactly?

i already established that jack only uses pirated games as personal entertainment. he does not make any type of profit after pirating games. there are other pirates that do and they need a different make.

Irrelevant. The piracy of Jack and others has led to restrictive measures for legit customers. There's no little flag on piracy statistics that states whether you downloaded it to "try it out", or because you can't afford it, or that you just don't want to pay. It's all piracy.

C) Have you addressed these complaints to game providers? Capitalism works based on supply and demand. If games companies thought they could make a profit (albeit a smaller one) by providing regional discounts they would do so, (granted ebay importing of regional copies would just cause Americans to have games shipped overseas so maybe not).

Customer service is bogus here. When i bought NFS carbon [wanting to play on-line] i went to the store and the clerk asked me if i wanted it "in the box" or not. still after i bought it i found out that an account made in version 1.2 of the game does not work in the version 1.3 of the game because EA has the same customer service like my country: "do not listen to complaints before or after the purchase of a game. just sell the game then ignore away"

So you haven't actually told the devs about these complaints, you just assumed they wouldn't listen.

if a developer can prove their game is worth it a pirate might buy it [which is better then nothing. invest more in selling products then in stopping theft of something that isn't physical.

Except that the vast majority of pirates don't buy the game in question. World of Goo was a critically acclaimed game, with no DRM, and it had a piracy rate of 90%. Even if every single person who bought the game had downloaded it first, the non-paying pirates would outnumber them 4 to 1. The game, new, cost all of $20.

right... i was thinking that physically i could have sex with her but i need to work for that. [dinner etc] developer think that just because they put a game it's supposed to be bought and because their expectations are wrong it's definitely the pirates fault.

I doubt devs today actually expect people to reliably buy their games. They know that most players are just going to pirate it anyway.

no one said that jack has any moral issues. i would like more options for genuine gamers that can't afford proper gaming. is that too much to ask?

It is when people have presented several alternatives within this thread.

digital development can be extremely cheap so instead of being greedy developers can cut down on prices and still have a profit. not a huge one but it's a profit made instead of nothing which is always better.

You mean "digital distribution", right? That still makes up only a small amount of game sales, though it's rising. Most sales are at retail.

as i stated earlier pirating for me,jack and the rest of my country is perfectly moral-free. it's something you do not out of laziness or something but it's something you do out of lack of alternative. it the ONLY thing there is.

Really? I always see "not playing games" as an alternative.

why am i trying to close the gap? because i have a genuine love for games and hate to ee the pirates like jack being bashed for being born in an underdeveloped country with huge taxes and no concern for customer service.

You recently called developers "greedy" and stated that most people in your country pirate, yet you wonder why customer service there is crap?

Dear sir excuse me for saying but you fail.

You're terrible at this snarking thing.

we already agreed

No we didn't.

on the fact that jack situation in Europe, where computers and internet are crazy cheap [because people don't buy they have no alternative but to lower prices] while food is at a steady price. now gaming costs extreme amount of cash. so no jack is not entirely fictional. he representing at least 50 people i know from my high-school alone.

The only reason you can afford a computer but not the games for it is a critical failure of financial prioritizing. You could only end up like that if you never really planned to pay for games in the first place.

now one of my problems: why the hate? you are all bashing on pirates without the smallest regard for the person that pirates.

"Disdain" is, in fact, a type of regard.

yes some are retards with their vocabulary consisting entirely of swear words written in leet, but maybe some are good people that pirate for lack of alternative.

Lack of perceived alternative. As I and several people have pointed out, alternatives do exist.

instead of bashing you should try and help.

Bend over backwards to help the people who are trying to rip them off, and, statistically, will contnue to do so no matter what measures they take?

Aren't you just so cute! You think they're comparable don't you? You thought I said piracy was wrong because I didn't do it? No, what I do or don't do does not change that your hypothetical is bullshit. If you can show me where I can get a legitimate region one subtitled copy of Rose of Versailles or Oruchuban Ebichu I'd like to hear it.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason series don't get localized is that they're usually already pirated widely as soon as they air? Gurren Lagann is a popular series, but the US DVD sales for it aren't all that great. In fact, people will come up with any flimsy rationalization to justify not buying stuff they've already pirated. I once saw the dub announcement trailer for TTGL on YouTube, and commenters were already theorizing that the voice acting was bad, despite the trailer not actually showing any.

And stop being patronizing.

 

[JonnWood]

I didn't say "used to have". I said "has" on mp3's. If you have mp3's and oh-so-hate piracy, you're a hypocrit.

There are several legal ways to acquire free MP3s. You didn't answer my analogy, I note. It is possible to speak out against something if you've already admitted you're doing the same wrong.

I'm not getting it for free. I'm getting a chance to test it out for free. I happen to live in a country where downloads are legal if deleted within 48 hours. It's considered much the same as a testing/grace period (something every consumer has a right to according to our laws). If I like the game, I'll buy it. I'd wager a fair bit of money that my collection of perfectly legit games is bigger than yours. Nice assumption, though.

Your country's laws are an extremely rare circumstance, one not shared by, oh, the majority of the world. For most people, piracy is just plain illegal, and arguing like it's not is intellectually dishonest.

 

[DirgeNovak]

I suppose your fictional character Jack is 18 years old (don't know why I think this...), so I guess he could shut up and find a job to pay for his fucking games like the rest of the world.

Just saying...

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

I wish Jack could afford a new shift key for his keyboard.

This.

No, but seriously, your 'friend' Jack IS stealing, because whatever you say, pirating does decrease sales, and thus does damage the industry.

Maybe if your 'friend' Jack spent less time pleading with you to ask the internet community, and bemoaning his woes at not being able to afford commodities, and more time Job-hunting, he wouldn't be in this situation now.

 

[secretsantaone]

3. Piracy has the same effect on game developers as renting games or buying used games, they don't get a single penny from them. These two are perfectly legal.

Except for the fact that rental retailers have to PURCHASE copies of the games, meaning more sales for the Dev. rental retailers also acquire copies for re-sale and provide another advertising outlet for the devs. This arrangement is still mutually beneficial.

The crackers buy the game first as well.

Biiig difference..... a couple dozen crackers can feed millions and millions of hacked copies while there are thousands of sales to retail establishments that are lucky if they make their money back on the rental itself. The ratio is so very different that you can't even compare the two in terms of lost sales.

Millions? I think not.

You make it sound like the retailer is struggling. Surely if it were the case they would stop running them?

Most brick-and-mortar rental places have gone out of business, which is why Gamefly exists, because only by taking advantage of economies of scale are they able to make a decent profit. Excellent precognitive skill!

The point is, beyond the original purchase, the devs see no more money. The retailer gets to sell the game, then sell the same game an indefinate amount of times without paying the developers. Bare in mind also the size of games retailers compared to the piracy scene, used games and renting costs the developers waaaaay more in imaginary currency.

Retail sales companies are only able to sell each copy they purchase once. Retail rental companies purchase each rentable copy at full retail price (often with a premium paid to the publisher for right to rent). Also, the amount of time their customers are able to enjoy the game is limited by the number of copies they purchase (24 hours * number of days renter owns game * number of copies purchased). Pirates purchase one copy, and are able to (in theory) provide an infinite number of hours of gameplay to downloaders.

Many retails stores run a trade-in system where they will pay pittance for a game and resell it for about half of retail price. This happens thousands of times a day all over the world. The developers don't see a penny. The developers lose millions in 'potential sales' to people who simply wait to buy it used rather than new.

And that's fine. They offer a price (or pittance, if you will) to the person who bought it originally. The owner of the game is free to turn this offer down and seek a higher price on Amazon, Ebay, or other vendors and sell it direct instead of through a middle man. If accepted, though, the store acquires the game from the owner, then sells it again. One repurchase = one resale.

While it may be a back-door counter to the "potential sales" argument, the practice of used game sales and game piracy are not even remotely similar in terms of the human interactions involved.

One is the sale of game which was originally purchased but the owner no longer needed, resulting in maybe 4 or 5 different users over the course of a couple of years, with no more than one owner at a time, and the other is the production of hundreds or thousands of copies from one purchase. Also, the person who cracked the retail copy never actually relinquishes ownership. Comparable effect on sales =/= same thing

Except this happens far more frequently than piracy. You're assuming the amount of legitamate customers = the amount of pirates.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

People seem to not quite understand infringement, "Piracy"(non bootleging) is to stealing as attacking a robber is assault.One can try and make it a zero thought black and white issue if one insists on using only 50 IQ points to think....

Logical fallacies: Bizzare definition, poisoning the well.

Only if you are using 50IQ points to ponder and discuss the issue. Keep believing the 1:1 myth and drinking the kool aid there bud.

If you can not make the sale its not due to outside influences its due to how you are selling it.

Aren't you just so cute! You think they're comparable don't you? You thought I said piracy was wrong because I didn't do it? No, what I do or don't do does not change that your hypothetical is bullshit. If you can show me where I can get a legitimate region one subtitled copy of Rose of Versailles or Oruchuban Ebichu I'd like to hear it.
/quote
Has it ever occurred to you that the reason series don't get localized is that they're usually already pirated widely as soon as they air? Gurren Lagann is a popular series, but the US DVD sales for it aren't all that great. In fact, people will come up with any flimsy rationalization to justify not buying stuff they've already pirated. I once saw the dub announcement trailer for TTGL on YouTube, and commenters were already theorizing that the voice acting was bad, despite the trailer not actually showing any.

And stop being patronizing.

Or could it be the poor job of dubbing, high prices and cost of reproduction pretty much makes it a difficult problem that blaming piracy(look at nintendo and Europe blaming piracy over genreal poor support of the region) turns into a simple one....well simple for fools and morons who believe the myth of one copy one lost sale.

Oh I believe your condescending self righteous tone is far worse than that of the so called pirates here.......

 

[JonnWood]

You neglected the parts about how someone necessarily paid for the used copy, and how use copies only allow one person at a time. You know, just the entire difference between used games and piracy. Even if used games are more popular than piracy, it doesn't change the fact that pirates do not necessarily pay for their copies. In face, it's frequently possible to get pirated versions of games weeks before release.

Also, I'd like to see statistics proving that there are more used game sales than pirated copies.

 

[JonnWood]

Only if you are using 50IQ points to ponder and discuss the issue. Keep believing the 1:1 myth and drinking the kool aid there bud.

I think we've had this debate before. I don't believe piracy equals lost sales on a 1:1 basis. I do believe that pirates either would've bought the game anyway if a pirated version weren't available, or they never would've bought it in the first place, like Jack. Neither is the moral high ground. And again, poisoning the well. You just said that everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.

If you can not make the sale its not due to outside influences its due to how you are selling it.

AHAHAHA.

Or could it be the poor job of dubbing, high prices and cost of reproduction pretty much makes it a difficult problem

So, how are they going to get money to improve dubbing if most of their potential customers have already pirated the product? Does the term "Catch-22" mean anything to you?

that blaming piracy(look at nintendo and Europe blaming piracy over genreal poor support of the region) turns into a simple one....well simple for fools and morons who believe the myth of one copy one lost sale.

Once again, I don't. And I think that in some cases, piracy can be a valid reason for lost sales, but it's hard to tell when and how many.

Oh I believe your condescending self righteous tone is far worse than that of the so called pirates here.......

...Said the guy who just said I had a 50 IQ and called me a fool and moron.

Incidentally, I'm not being self-rightous, I'm just outright mocking you guys. I'm making my points, but I'm doing so in a sardonic matter. The problem people have with someone being patronizing to them is the fear they might be right.

 

[numaiomul]

I suppose your fictional character Jack is 18 years old (don't know why I think this...), so I guess he could shut up and find a job to pay for his fucking games like the rest of the world.

Just saying...

it's so easy for you to say "go get a job and be decent". my father is 40 years old. he is a security expert. he lives in a trailer. he can't find a job. but surely they will take in [part-time] high-school student. please enough with the argument of "get a job" i have been trying for the past year but no one hires an 18 year old high-school student when they have a line of people of around 25 with university diplomas. come live in my country and you try to find a job if your so good at it.

C) Have you addressed these complaints to game providers? Capitalism works based on supply and demand. If games companies thought they could make a profit (albeit a smaller one) by providing regional discounts they would do so, (granted ebay importing of regional copies would just cause Americans to have games shipped overseas so maybe not).

Customer service is bogus here. When i bought NFS carbon [wanting to play on-line] i went to the store and the clerk asked me if i wanted it "in the box" or not. still after i bought it i found out that an account made in version 1.2 of the game does not work in the version 1.3 of the game because EA has the same customer service like my country: "do not listen to complaints before or after the purchase of a game. just sell the game then ignore away"

So you haven't actually told the devs about these complaints, you just assumed they wouldn't listen.

actually you would be an idiot to not contact customer service after you bought a 80 dollar game [nfs carbon] (when it was 10% off). i did reinstall the game multiple times, tried multiple version, read the whole forum and rest of the s*** and it didn't work. i still recall their final answer. "it is not their fault that an account made on a game does not work when you patch the game and if i want another key-code or something i can't just have my digital account deleted or something so i can reinstall it using the original key-code i have to send it to some foreign country, pay some taxes and after about 1 month i might get an e-mail with the result of the problems and if i am right in a month i shall receive a new key-code for the game"

Dear sir excuse me for saying but you fail.

You're terrible at this snarking thing.

yeah i know #:-S

From a point of view he is a victim and if developers want sales and make a small compromise they might get some profit in a place where it wasn't.

Whose point of view, exactly?

the genuine gamers who have to resort to playing second class copies with restricted features because most of the politicians only know to profit after the downfall of Ceausescu and only know to steal from us and blaming it on us. it's our fault that taxes are going up now that the economy in the world is regaining stability. it's our fault that when the price on gas lower we get a raise in taxes.

ps:should i say that a normal edition game is at the price of the collectors edition? :-/ [devil may cry 4 as an example] and i highly doubt it that they lower the price on the collectors edition.

nice link:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_158/5045-Piracy-and-the-Underground-Economy
and i agree if a 5$ dollar game appeared in retail or something i'd be all over it. i have original counter-strike because of someone selling keycodes for steam to people that lack credit cards.
true piracy is the norm here but not most people are good at it so you can only feed on inexperienced people in the IT domain [about 80% of the population]

No one said you should pay for a game. You have the financial possibilities to make the choice of buying games [probably even regularly] and you made it. most of us in my country don't have that choice available. i'm not saying we're good or bad i'm saying we're a bit more limited.

Yes, you are limited. So much so that you should not be able to play games you can't afford. That is the point. The point I was making is that no one in the world is going to differentiate between your case and the case of someone who can afford games but steals them anyways, because games are non-essential and not important enough to have that distinction made.

if games aren't important then why is there such a big case on them? so a game pirated for 4 million times isn't important? :-/ then leave the pirates alone
of and remember something: don't ever call me limited. and if you want to talk semantics let's go
jack has a 120gb hdd where he stores information
jack found information he liked
jack writes information to his hdd [by the process of modifying the internal data discs in the hdd thus forming different combinations of 1 and 0]
the new combination turns out to be a game
lucky jack
from that point onward that information is jack's. true he did not have the right to use that information from the start but that is nor relevant from this example. what is on his hdd is his. he did not steal anything, he modified something of his own to resemble something of another.
and secondly: i should not play games i can't afford. well my friend an 80 year old neurologist who saved thousand of lives throughout his medical career shouldn't he harassed by the state and left to die on the street saved by people that didn't even knew him, his former patients [most in the political zone] ignoring him. but guess what, it's common place here. a mail-man stealing money from the retirement money he should be giving to the elderly 3-4 cases this year alone just in my city.
high placed people hitting pedestrians, making them invalid or killing them altogether? they don't even get a fine although it's their fault.
those things shouldn't happen but unfortunately they happen here and are not that uncommon.

EDIT: i think i know why world of goo had a 90% piracy rate :-> because it was GOOD and didn't require a high-tech pc to run like asscreed2 or crysis. that is why so many people pirated it because it was fun and didn't require a good computer don't think that protection on games actually affect the piracy rate. after it was pirated ascreed 2 became a game just like world of goo: no protection.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Only if you are using 50IQ points to ponder and discuss the issue. Keep believing the 1:1 myth and drinking the kool aid there bud.

I think we've had this debate before. I don't believe piracy equals lost sales on a 1:1 basis. I do believe that pirates either would've bought the game anyway if a pirated version weren't available, or they never would've bought it in the first place, like Jack. Neither is the moral high ground. And again, poisoning the well. You just said that everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.

If you can not make the sale its not due to outside influences its due to how you are selling it.

AHAHAHA.

Or could it be the poor job of dubbing, high prices and cost of reproduction pretty much makes it a difficult problem

So, how are they going to get money to improve dubbing if most of their potential customers have already pirated the product? Does the term "Catch-22" mean anything to you?

that blaming piracy(look at nintendo and Europe blaming piracy over genreal poor support of the region) turns into a simple one....well simple for fools and morons who believe the myth of one copy one lost sale.

Once again, I don't. And I think that in some cases, piracy can be a valid reason for lost sales, but it's hard to tell when and how many.

Oh I believe your condescending self righteous tone is far worse than that of the so called pirates here.......

...Said the guy who just said I had a 50 IQ and called me a fool and moron.

Incidentally, I'm not being self-rightous, I'm just outright mocking you guys. I'm making my points, but I'm doing so in a sardonic matter. The problem people have with someone being patronizing to them is the fear they might be right.

Ah for the lulz, no wonder you are incorrect so much.

 

[TPiddy]

if games aren't important then why is there such a big case on them? so a game pirated for 4 million times isn't important? :-/ then leave the pirates alone
of and remember something: don't ever call me limited. and if you want to talk semantics let's go
jack has a 120gb hdd where he stores information
jack found information he liked
jack writes information to his hdd [by the process of modifying the internal data discs in the hdd thus forming different combinations of 1 and 0]
the new combination turns out to be a game
lucky jack
from that point onward that information is jack's. true he did not have the right to use that information from the start but that is nor relevant from this example. what is on his hdd is his. he did not steal anything, he modified something of his own to resemble something of another.
and secondly: i should not play games i can't afford. well my friend an 80 year old neurologist who saved thousand of lives throughout his medical career shouldn't he harassed by the state and left to die on the street saved by people that didn't even knew him, his former patients [most in the political zone] ignoring him. but guess what, it's common place here. a mail-man stealing money from the retirement money he should be giving to the elderly 3-4 cases this year alone just in my city.
high placed people hitting pedestrians, making them invalid or killing them altogether? they don't even get a fine although it's their fault.
those things shouldn't happen but unfortunately they happen here and are not that uncommon.

Once again, your argument that what you're doing is right because there are so many other bad things happening is just juvenile and pointless. We get it... you live in a shitty country. Stop using it as an excuse for every bad thing you do. There's no point in even debating this with you because you're not even providing good counter-arguments to our statements against it.

Basically, you want to play these games, and you can only do so by stealing them. You don't really give a shit about what happens as a result, so long as you get what you want. Yet inside you still feel a little guilty about it so you try to convince people that what you're doing is 'necessary' or not really all that bad. No amount of what we say is going to convince you otherwise because we're 'rich bastards' who don't live the same 'hellish situation' that you do, and if we did, we'd steal games too.

You're not a patriot, you're not sticking up for your impoverished family or friends, or fighting against the big evil corporations, you're a fucking pirate. Deal with it and quit appealing to us to ease your guilty conscience.

 

[numaiomul]

You're not a patriot, you're not sticking up for your impoverished family or friends, or fighting against the big evil corporations, you're a fucking pirate. Deal with it and quit appealing to us to ease your guilty conscience.

=)) okay that's rich :-j i complain because i want. i want because i love. i love games, plan on working as a programmer but starting as a game tester. i would like more alternative to underdeveloped countries so we can enjoy games. i do not have a guilty conscious and frankly i don't actually care about developers and all that stuff but i love games and i don't like broken down ones. i cherish the few original boxed titles i have and want to have more but unfortunately i can't. i fight because i dream and i dream because i love.
and why the hell is everyone thinking i'm trying to justify my actions? i'm trying to make you see that in other countries this is a given and bashing on us it's like attacking us for not having the same country you do. i think that's called discrimination.
"Discrimination is a sociological term referring to the treatment taken toward or against a person of a certain group in consideration based solely on class or category"
you discriminate me for not having the possibilities of buying a game but finding alternative ways. i'm not trying to sustain my cause i'm trying to get out of it. and there are plenty who love to open a boxed game and know they don't need a crack, keygen and probabily an emulator to hide most of your programs from the game. piracy for some isn't a choice. it's a way of life.

 

[TPiddy]

[Except this happens far more frequently than piracy. You're assuming the amount of legitamate customers = the amount of pirates.

Wait... I'm sorry.... are you saying that more games are traded in and resold than are pirated? If you are, can you please send me whatever it is you're smoking right now?

 

[TPiddy]

=)) okay that's rich :-j i complain because i want. i want because i love. i love games, plan on working as a programmer but starting as a game tester. i would like more alternative to underdeveloped countries so we can enjoy games. i do not have a guilty conscious and frankly i don't actually care about developers and all that stuff but i love games and i don't like broken down ones. i cherish the few original boxed titles i have and want to have more but unfortunately i can't. i fight because i dream and i dream because i love.
and why the hell is everyone thinking i'm trying to justify my actions? i'm trying to make you see that in other countries this is a given and bashing on us it's like attacking us for not having the same country you do. i think that's called discrimination.
"Discrimination is a sociological term referring to the treatment taken toward or against a person of a certain group in consideration based solely on class or category"
you discriminate me for not having the possibilities of buying a game but finding alternative ways. i'm not trying to sustain my cause i'm trying to get out of it. and there are plenty who love to open a boxed game and know they don't need a crack, keygen and probabily an emulator to hide most of your programs from the game. piracy for some isn't a choice. it's a way of life.

Actually... many people in this thread have already pointed out alternatives such as ordering games online for less, free online and free downloadable games, flash games, used games, or just not gaming at all.

There are alternatives, it's just that none of them end up with you getting what you want so you don't like them. We're not going to give you a free pass on piracy no matter how much you whine about your country, because, simply put.... if you can't afford to play the games, you shouldn't play the games.

If I don't have money for the bus... I don't try to get on the bus... I fucking walk.

 

[numaiomul]

first things first a pirate doesn't need a pass and not trying to be a pirate. alternatives are no good for a future games tester and programmer.
i repeat ordering online is out of the question [lack of credit cards and banks having very high taxes], free online and down loadable probably more then you can imagine, used games are non existent here or are too unimportant to take into consideration and not gaming will severely hurt my knowledge of games [that and the lack of yahtzee, the game overthinker and the news from the escapist which i think sums up the gaming community as a whole]
i need alternatives for games. take one example. in order for me to preorder mass effect 2 i have to sustain a crypted package of information for p2p transfer through steam for 6 months or until i upload at least 4 TB of that information. i help the publisher by providing bandwidth and he help me by giving me a preorder for a game. those are the alternatives i like and you can't say their not possible.
why doesn't anyone see the huge business opportunity for publishers/developer etc to work with the people who want genuine games but don't have income so they give services in exchange. pirates are people and some pirate because they don't have money. those are people who a developer/publisher etc could work with to obtain a compromise that works for both parties. but instead companies invest more money in protection that get's cracked in the first day or two so pirates don't have a problem but you have to have stupid security systems.
if you want something then make your point said. i want more alternatives in a place where business opportunities are almost null. money is just currency. it only represents [in a different way depending on where you live] how much you invested in something that helps the state. why don't they just cut out the middle man and find services they need done by motivated people and reward them with games? does it matter that those motivated people are pirates? if they do their job right it doesn't because then they become genuine trust-worthy human beings who deserve respect.

 

[DaOysterboy]

Long post so I'm cropping to make my points clearer.

From a point of view he is a victim and if developers want sales and make a small compromise they might get some profit in a place where it wasn't.

He may be a victim of his harsh economic circumstances. He may be a victim for not having enough food to eat. He is NOT a "victim" for not being able to play video games. I am not a victim for not owning a yacht. I am not a victim for not living in the Caribbean. I am not a victim for not having a PS3, or Xbox, or Wii, or blu-ray player, or candy bar, or six-pack of Coca-Cola, or yo-yo, or Tonka firetruck, or Modern Warfare 2, or doctoral degree, or anything of the sort. If someone had never tasted a Slurpee in their life, yeah I'd think they were missing out, but not a victim. I am a victim if I lack the things that are required for a healthy life. Lack of video games does not make you a victim. To say such marginalizes the plight of ACTUAL victims.

As mentioned, DRM is not a creative innovation to enhance gameplay experience. It is a response to a perceived problem in the industry, which is propagated by the many Jacks. Jacks have changed how the gaming industry functions in a way which hurts legitimate customers.

i already established that jack only uses pirated games as personal entertainment. he does not make any type of profit after pirating games. there are other pirates that do and they need a different make.

My point here was not to argue "what type of a pirate is Jack?" but to point out "industry executives do not care WHY Jack pirates and have implemented restrictive DRM as a result of rampant pirating which Jack contributes to regardless of intention." THIS is what has hurt the industry.

B) Free games have been mentioned several times, but besides a passing mention of Cave Story, you haven't really addressed why you don't just take that route. Surely, there's more than enough hours of freeware out there for whatever your interests are?

already playing free games where i can find them but there's a limit to them. true i probably tried more f2p mmo they most here have tried games but most are bad. besides you can't compare mass effect 2 with scorched earth

Well that's really the point isn't it? Sure some games are lower quality, but you deal with it. I don't have Mass Effect 2. I also don't have Modern Warfare 2. I also don't have Dragon Age or its expansion pack. There are a large number of new games that I would like to own but don't. These games are $50-60 a piece in my country and the fact that you even bring up ME2 paints Jack as a spoiled child who thinks he should have the latest and greatest. I WAIT to buy my games until I can AFFORD them. Often that's a combination of waiting for price to drop and saving up my money, and even then I usually end up going without new games, because other priorities come first. I haven't paid $50 for a game since the N64 was in style. I know games are more expensive where you are, but that just translates to you should own fewer. In fact, I'd wager that my annual budget for games is far below the pirated worth of your games, even accounting for the regional pricing differences. I can't give Jack sympathy just because he doesn't have the latest thing from last month.

Customer service is bogus here. When i bought NFS carbon [wanting to play on-line] i went to the store and the clerk asked me if i wanted it "in the box" or not. still after i bought it i found out that an account made in version 1.2 of the game does not work in the version 1.3 of the game because EA has the same customer service like my country: "do not listen to complaints before or after the purchase of a game. just sell the game then ignore away"

I don't think bad customer service is a regional issue. But the point being "what have you tried doing about it?" You don't even mention bringing up the issue in your post. Sure maybe you can't change the minds of EA stockholders or the CEO, but where else have you pointed out that it's a problem? A forum post on the Escapist, may be a good start but it's hardly a campaign launch for "affordable games for Eastern Europe."

companies should focus more on potential customers. don't think on how to stop people from spreading your game for free

"Spreading"--and really, you've reached some sort of total semantic disconnect--does them no good if they're not making money.

Again, devs don't see "good pirates" and "bad pirates." They see "we didn't make any money, but they received all the benefits of our work and effort." You really can't expect them not to be angry and frustrated with that. To date, attacking piracy has been the response to getting potential customers because if they hadn't got it for free, some of those people probably would have paid, (and before you go there I DON'T MEAN JACK). It's a demographic which is obviously interested in their product, because they went out of their way to get it, but also went out of their way to not pay for it. Obviously, the question in their mind is "how do we get people interested in our product to pay for it?" Answer: remove the circumventions that allow them to get it free. I don't LIKE their response but I can't think of a better one myself.

no one said that jack has any moral issues. i would like more options for genuine gamers that can't afford proper gaming. is that too much to ask? digital development can be extremely cheap so instead of being greedy developers can cut down on prices and still have a profit. not a huge one but it's a profit made instead of nothing which is always better.

In fact, it might be too much to ask depending on your definition of "affordable". GTA had a budget of $100,000,000. That's a lot of cash that the company needs to make up in sales to keep afloat. Products sell where marginal revenue equals marginal costs. Increasing price from this point reduces total income, Lowering price from this point also reduces total income. The fact is that these "greedy developers" who do what every good businessman does (read: maximize profit) are not interested in reducing their income.

Simply put, I understand why you do what you do (though you haven't painted a very endearing picture of Jack, with the whole "I want to play ME2, not scorched earth" and "my MW2 multiplayer doesn't work" bit. More and more I think you need to seriously reprioritize where gaming fits into your harsh life. Honestly, if your country is so bad, you could try working on some more noble causes than "cheap games.") But if I have made no other valid points then just remember this when people rag on you:
A) developers don't distinguish "types of pirates"
B) developers see pirates as "income I'm not getting"
C) DRM is the best solution so far to prevent the "income I'm not getting"
D) DRM is HATED by legitimate customers more than by pirates
E) Games are a luxury. No matter how much you love them, they are not a right, entitlement, or endowment. They do not need to be affordable, reasonable, or even good. Everyone decides whether a game is affordable enough for them or good enough quality for them by either PLUNKING DOWN THE CASH FOR IT or NOT USING THE PRODUCT.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

first things first a pirate doesn't need a pass and not trying to be a pirate. alternatives are no good for a future games tester and programmer.
i repeat ordering online is out of the question [lack of credit cards and banks having very high taxes], free online and down loadable probably more then you can imagine, used games are non existent here or are too unimportant to take into consideration and not gaming will severely hurt my knowledge of games [that and the lack of yahtzee, the game overthinker and the news from the escapist which i think sums up the gaming community as a whole]
i need alternatives for games. take one example. in order for me to preorder mass effect 2 i have to sustain a crypted package of information for p2p transfer through steam for 6 months or until i upload at least 4 TB of that information. i help the publisher by providing bandwidth and he help me by giving me a preorder for a game. those are the alternatives i like and you can't say their not possible.
why doesn't anyone see the huge business opportunity for publishers/developer etc to work with the people who want genuine games but don't have income so they give services in exchange. pirates are people and some pirate because they don't have money. those are people who a developer/publisher etc could work with to obtain a compromise that works for both parties. but instead companies invest more money in protection that get's cracked in the first day or two so pirates don't have a problem but you have to have stupid security systems.
if you want something then make your point said. i want more alternatives in a place where business opportunities are almost null. money is just currency. it only represents [in a different way depending on where you live] how much you invested in something that helps the state. why don't they just cut out the middle man and find services they need done by motivated people and reward them with games? does it matter that those motivated people are pirates? if they do their job right it doesn't because then they become genuine trust-worthy human beings who deserve respect.

People can't grow up and realize piracy is more gray than black and white. 7 times out of ten its due from lack of service and or qaulity from the copy right owner, the other 3 times its due to people making an illicit profit.