let's debate piracy and the hypocrisy behind it

[RathWolf]

http://img.megaleecher.net/uploads/piracy-is-theft.jpg

You know, this is interesting when you think about it a bit more, isn't it? After all, if you go into someone's house and they watch as you take a twenty dollar bill out of their wallet, they'd be pissed, wouldn't they? But if you go into that same person's house, take a twenty dollar bill out out of their wallet, point a wand at it and magically make a duplicate appear, then hand the original twenty back to its owner, he probably wouldn't really care about you taking the copy.
So piracy really isn't theft. I'm not saying it's right, but you would be mistaken to call it theft. After all, we don't call using a copy or fax machine theft, now do we?

Except that's a bit of a false analogy. A more correct one would be: A person is selling art on the street. Now, as the creator, he already has a copy, and thus an extra copy provides no benefit for him. You really want that piece of art. Now, you could pay him in exchange for the results his hard work, but instead, you walk up, pull out your magic wand, make a duplicate of his painting, and walk off with it. He has not benefited at all, whereas if you didn't have your wand, you might have actually paid him.

 

[Danpascooch]

I don't think it is an affordability issue, I know my fictional character can afford games, but he pirates ones he wouldn't buy anyway, but wants to try out of curiosity, games like Mirrors Edge. Therefore he is only depriving the companies of money they wouldn't get anyway, net loss for the companies $0, if he finds a game he is willing to buy, he will buy it, and he has a giant purchased game collection to back up his point.

(I am not saying I would ever pirate, just presenting an argument for it)

Personally I don't think pirating is wrong
(To mods out there, I am allowed to have this opinion, I am stating very clearly right here that I am NOT saying I pirate, as to avoid confusion)

 

[Tenky]

Not to nitpick... but i bought mirror's edge for 3$ on steam... There's poor and "not trying at all"

 

[aps1984]

Calling Piracy stealing is just hype for effect. I thought we'd sorted all this out. Can people be a bit more mature and stop doing this maybe?

When and where was this sorted out? Link please.
Explain how thinking a pirate isn't a thief makes us more mature too please.

theft: 'the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.' Dictionary.com. It is not theft if nothing is taken away. It is still wrong in some cases, but not theft. In a lot of cases, piracy is victimless and therefore, as far as my morals are concerned, perfectly ok in those.

And because in the more mature, intelligent debates about piracy even the people who are strongly against piracy in all forms accept that piracy is not theft. Conceding to this does not mean you are saying it is ok.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

http://img.megaleecher.net/uploads/piracy-is-theft.jpg

You know, this is interesting when you think about it a bit more, isn't it? After all, if you go into someone's house and they watch as you take a twenty dollar bill out of their wallet, they'd be pissed, wouldn't they? But if you go into that same person's house, take a twenty dollar bill out out of their wallet, point a wand at it and magically make a duplicate appear, then hand the original twenty back to its owner, he probably wouldn't really care about you taking the copy. The only other possible result is that he might want to know how you did it so that he could later do it for himself.

So piracy really isn't theft. I'm not saying it's right, but you would be mistaken to call it theft. After all, we don't call using a copy or fax machine theft, now do we?

This situation wouldn't amount to piracy though, if the $20 bill had a picture that your friend drew on it which he intended to sell to consumers and you took his art work to use as your own then it would be piracy.

 

[Flour]

If you want to be pedantic then a pay car park, that alwyas has spaces in it, its still theft to use it. Theft can be of an idea, of an object or a service.

Again, the car park lost something. Even if it has always free space, it's still taking up space for someone who would have paid for it.

 

[shadow skill]

Calling Piracy stealing is just hype for effect. I thought we'd sorted all this out. Can people be a bit more mature and stop doing this maybe?

Obviously not. If you walk into a book store pick up a book on the shelf and sit down and read the whole thing you are not a thief. Oh and for the record no content creator or distributor can be said to have the right to make a profit.

That's a bit of a false analogy. Piracy is more akin to walking into a bookstore, picking up a book, making a copy of each page, and then walking out.

Also, what? You're saying people who work hard making content don't have a right to be rewarded for their effort?

No it isn't a false analogy. The underlying point is that you enjoyed the product and did not buy it. By the time you have enjoyed the product all that needs to happen has already happened. The content provider hasn't lost the book have they?

 

[TPiddy]

You know, this is interesting when you think about it a bit more, isn't it? After all, if you go into someone's house and they watch as you take a twenty dollar bill out of their wallet, they'd be pissed, wouldn't they? But if you go into that same person's house, take a twenty dollar bill out out of their wallet, point a wand at it and magically make a duplicate appear, then hand the original twenty back to its owner, he probably wouldn't really care about you taking the copy. The only other possible result is that he might want to know how you did it so that he could later do it for himself.

So piracy really isn't theft. I'm not saying it's right, but you would be mistaken to call it theft. After all, we don't call using a copy or fax machine theft, now do we?

First of all, you can't compare a $20 bill to someone's IP, because a $20 bill can be used as currency. The game developer can't take a copy of his game to the grocery store to feed his kids.

Secondly, just because there's no physical copy to be stolen doesn't mean it's NOT STEALING. You're still acquiring something.... for free.... that you otherwise would have had to pay for.

 

[Kouen]

OK,

1st Jack needs to realise there is plenty of Free to play games out there, also there is steam sales at least twice a week (Midweek madness, Weekend Deal). if jack can still keep up with the latest titles with his pc then he cant be THAT bad off.

2nd, I'll admit right now I'm an EX-Pirate... yea EX as in I don't no more, I've learned in the end it just aint worth it, especially if you get caught. I Was never caught but maybe sense dropped into my head or maybe it was that I found that Owning the game rather than stealing it made it feel much better, Also I Discovered Steam and there offers all the time and decent pricing, sure im not always buying the latest releases, in fact latest release I own is Sonic and Sega All stars. I Destroyed all my illegal copies but the ones I enjoyed I listed them down and will buy them on steam or on disc if need be. But putting aside the feeling of owning the game look at say left 4 dead SP Only really illegally without having to mess around a lot with VPN's and console commands, Real legal copy its just 4 clicks!

I Stopped pirating and aint looked back I Play Retail real server World of Warcraft not Private Server anymore and don't have any illegal PC Games, Ya know I feel better this way Im paying the people that did there job to make this game if no one paid for the game how they going to continue to make them? id go as far as to say that pirates are taking the cloths of the game industry's workers backs and food outta them and there family's mouths.

 

[Beckbat]

Interested in various games, TV, Movies and Books. Lack MONEY. Download and enjoy some a lot, others less. Later in life: no longer student, have money, buy box sets, paperback copies and other things that give creators money. Would not have bought otherwise because would not have gotten to fully appreciate a full season or the entire series. In the long run creator gains money. All is well if short-sighted people could just realize that corporations last for years and can wait to get my money when I have it.

 

[jakkuss]

@sober thal: pirates aren't stealing from you and piracy doesn't affect sales in the least. If people can buy a game they really want they will because they know it will be better having all the features and stuff except some rune down broken pirated copy. if people won't buy a game they MIGHT buy it after really enjoying it after pirating it and probably buy it afterward.

You know, someone who steals a car probably wasn't going to buy it either. It's still theft.

 

[Pingieking]

I think that pirating is wrong. It is NOT stealing; it is pirating, a completely different illegal activity. Illegal activities are usually illegal for two reasons; it's fun and/or economically beneficial for the culprit.

With that said, I also think that game pirates don't actually do a whole lot to the industry revenue-wise. Most of those people wouldn't have bought the game anyway, and a few of those pirates will end up buying the game. The net loss/gain is minimal in the grand scheme of things.

As I've said countless times before: Piracy is underrated. Piracy did more good things for gaming (and music) than any DRM or other bullshit. I've elaborated my point in a few topics already and I'm not in the mood to repeat myself.
All of you who look at us poor people from under developed countries from a moral high ground are hypocrites.

On a side note, this was QFT.

 

[Snacksboy]

Piracy is a crime, but it is not theft. Of course some people believe it should not be a crime. I really can't think of any reason for why it is a crime. I mean unless someone manages to prove that piracy->reduced income for creator(s). And don't go "That's totally logical and intuitive", it might seem that way but even so you have to prove it.

I think Piracy is a reaction to the current market. See, buying and selling used to be a deal right? You would go out into a market and see something you like and then you would haggle, until you reached an agreement both sides could agree to(or you'd fail and walk off). Nowadays, you can only get the extreme cases: Buying regularly, in which case you have no say in the price, or pirate, in which case you have all the say. The former is good for the producer/retailer, the latter is good for the consumer.

What's with all the banhammer fear? Surely we are allowed to freely discuss a subject of major importance to the gaming industry without tiptoeing?

 

[RathWolf]

Calling Piracy stealing is just hype for effect. I thought we'd sorted all this out. Can people be a bit more mature and stop doing this maybe?

Obviously not. If you walk into a book store pick up a book on the shelf and sit down and read the whole thing you are not a thief. Oh and for the record no content creator or distributor can be said to have the right to make a profit.

That's a bit of a false analogy. Piracy is more akin to walking into a bookstore, picking up a book, making a copy of each page, and then walking out.

Also, what? You're saying people who work hard making content don't have a right to be rewarded for their effort?

No it isn't a false analogy. The underlying point is that you enjoyed the product and did not buy it. By the time you have enjoyed the product all that needs to happen has already happened. The content provider hasn't lost the book have they?

No, the difference is, you gained a copy of that product without paying for it. While the content provider may still have the original, that does nothing for them. The content provider has received no compensation despite you having received something from them. This is wrong.

 

[Delock]

A man works for his new car, he's proud that he's been able to save up and afford it. A poor man sees the car and steals it, he can never afford this car so it's okay that he stole it.

The man who bought the car lost the car due to theft.

Do Pirates break into your house and take your games? Actually, that would be kinda cool... Maybe they'd be real Pirates then...

No, but they do go online, take a copy of data that took years to put together that needs to sell or the creators don't get the benefits (promotions, raises, having a job in the future) from it. It's sort of like if you were putting a logo design together for a company and you showed them the final product and they refused to pay you, only to go on to use the design anyways, but they did so in such a way that you can't profit from unless by going after them in court. If you were a logo designer then, you'd demand money up front and wouldn't let them have the design until they agreed to your terms (sounds a bit like DRM actually...)

If they actually came in with swords and guns dressed up like pirates and stole the game, I'd actually be impressed because they put some real effort into it.

 

[Danny Ocean]

so that is my FICTIONAL character jack what do you think about him? :-/

I think he's full of shit and needs to stop acting like he has a right to games.

 

[ClunkiestTurtle]

Personally i don't think piracy is as big a problem as people make it out to be.

I think its bad and wrong etc etc but from my personal experience of discussing it online or in other forums and with people i know very few people pirate every game they have and wouldn't of brought or played it if they hadn't of pirated it and i think that is largely the case with most people so when they claim piracy has cost them millions in sales in reality those people would of never of brought their game if they couldn't pirate it so the losses aren't really accurate.

When i was in school i would save up and buy the games i knew i wanted and then download games i didn't think were worth buying cos i wasn't old enough for a membership to blockbusters or what ever which is now what i do to play games i wouldn't buy and despite being legal it still makes nothing for the developers and publishers who sank money into the game so whats the real difference?

If piracy was eliminated tomorrow would people like me who rent games and buy second hand be the new immoral??

Is it the fact that it's illegal that makes it wrong or that the people who have made it aren't getting money for it?