Let's defend berated games in a series we like

[Quazimofo]

Empire total war. I don't understand why everyone hates it. Better naval battles than any of the others, bigger map, better economy and tactics that are more complex than just melee up front, archers to the back.

Not to mention it introduced the mechanic of having the city's important structures (mines, farms etc.) being actual locations on the campaign map you could raze or fight in (which I'm sad they removed with Rome II.) I personally didn't enjoy the land combat, the mass-rifle-formation based combat just didn't do it for me, but the naval combat was superb and the rest of the game was a step up from Medieval II.

I personally loved Saint's Row: the Third. Was there less customization? Yes. Did they kill off a fan favorite character very early on and drastically alter another? Yes (though let's be honest, Johnny Gat wouldn't have added much to the Third. Everyone was crazy in that game.) Were some fun side missions removed? Yep. Was there no juxtaposition of a fairly dark/serious plot with the ridiculous stuff you could do on the side? Absolutely.

Was the wholehearted embrace of ridiculousness wonderfully executed? This is where most debate is but I say yes. The aesthetic, the characters' reactions to the world around them, the sheer ridiculousness of some of these missions you go on/situations you find yourself in, it's all just perfect.

Also, there's a button dedicated to punching people in the crotch. There are several animations for this. There are several variations based on the weapons you are using. It is a legitimately effective way to stun-lock individual opponents. It's beautiful and wonderful and amazing and cathartic and adjectives. More games sorely need a button for punching people in the crotch.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I'll go to my usual choice for these kinds of threads, Pokemon Black and White versions!

Granted, the hate for these games has died down a lot in the last few years which is awesome. Plus, it seems like every Pokemon generation gets a bunch of haters at one point or another. However, since it's my favorite Pokemon game, any dislike I see for it gets my attention. I'll list some of the most common complaints and try to counter them.

Complaint #1: "5th gen Pokemon suck!"

No, they don't, at least not nearly as many do considering it's the largest generation of Pokemon. There are stinkers in the bunch, the evolved elemental monkeys and Timburr line come to mind, but most of the other ones have great designs. In fact, a lot more thought went into making the gen 5 Pokemon than say, Gen 1 and 2. Instead of just being based off of animals, they were based on animals, and some other thing. I just hate to see the generation get accused of being uncreative, when it seems like Gamefreak pulled all the stops to make it as creative/fresh as possible.

Complaint #2: "Unova's just a boring, linear circle!"

This complaint would hold more water, if previous Pokemon games were the pinnacle of non-linear, open world games. Except they aren't. You may not go in a line in previous games, but in the end, you go from one gym to the next, facing slightly stronger wild Pokemon and trainers. Gen 5 is no different, yet it got a lot of flack for it. The Kalos region in X and Y did the exact same thing, yet no one minded then for some reason. Let's not forget to mention all the interesting cities and areas you go through in that "boring circle" that is Unova. It has varied environments, coupled with actually interesting gym leaders and characters, all of which makes the region anything but "boring."

I feel Gen 5 was such a huge step forward in making the series more interesting, yet people did not respond to it very well. Yet, despite all the calls for Pokemon to do stuff differently, which gen 5 arguably did, gen 6 was full of pandering to genwunners, and a lackluster story full of lame characters. It only got a pass because we finally had the 3D Pokemon game everyone was clamoring for. I'm not trying to disparage gen 6, but I feel as though it was a huge step down from gen 5, aside from the visuals. But, since you can get gen 1 starters near the beginning, and a Mewtwo at the end, it's best thing evar!

I'll stop there since I feel like no one is going to read 5 huge paragraphs of me ranting. Just as a final word, if you don't like the gen 5 games, that's fine. However, I feel many people simply did not give the gen a good chance, and may have gone in ready to hate it since it tried to do something new.

 

[MCerberus]

Renegade was a fun Multiplayer shooter and actually had some fun ideas.
Sure snipers were a little crazy, but we can just blame the EA takeover for whatever we want.

 

[Lufia Erim]

FFXII had a fun battle system. It blended turn-based play with free-moving combat. It felt new, interesting and made the game feel fluid while still requiring strategy. It's not a replacement for traditional turn-based battles, but those tend to become boring and distracting after a while.

And let's be honest, if the game took no chances then there would have been no value to it.

Damn you took mine. I agree !

Alright then i choose final fantasy 13.

Sure it was linear, but you are fugitives, as far as i am aware fugitives can't roam freely. The paradigm system was dinabic and a lot of fun, switching between different classes on the spot just in time to heal or defend against a huge attack. It put a lot of strategy in the battles. The game was beautiful, the characters had character and the ending was bittersweet.

Great game.

13-2 and 13-3 were garbage though.

 

[Chester Rabbit]

But...I'm so tired of defending Mass Effect 3 from all of you Escapist ravens trying to pick its eyes out.

Also to you high brow video game connoisseurs that make up the bulk of the escapist. Bioshock Infinite deserves all the praise it got, it was a fantastic game blah blah unnecessary defending a great game blah!

Man am I exhausted from all of this....

 

[Ihateregistering1]

FEAR 3. I'll be the first to admit it was inferior to the other FEAR games, and the multiplayer focus was a mistake...BUT I thought it had great weapons and shooting action, and I actually liked the upgrade system that it added to the game.

I don't know if this counts as a 'series', since it's a reboot, but the "Syndicate" FPS. Yes, the bloom was atrocious, and the story was pretty much crap, but I loved the game's atmosphere and the idea of a world in which Corporations literally run the world, it had kick-ass weapons, and something about the shooting action in it just felt really good, like it was just the right speed and weapon strength.

 

[Mister K]

Someone already mentioned it, but I'll post about it anyway. You can't stop me.

Dragon Age 2 is flawed game, nobody will ever deny that. But all major complaints can be summed up by "EA happened". I have no doubts that it was EA's decision to a)force Bioware to make the game in 1 year and b)create sequel bait ending (Anderses uncalled for terrorism act goes here). Well OK, they also decided to give warriors animu swords.

But others things were great:
1. Story. I am TIRED of Biowares "You are the chosen one" stories. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire,DAO, they all have the same basic damn plot. With DA2 they finally decided to create something new and different i.e. something like "rags to riches" start of the story. Plus, I liked how it basically had 3 stories which spun through multiple years and showed how Hawkes relationship with others grew. Speaking of which...

2. Characters. Lets take a look at DAO party for a second: Funny guy, good girl, ***** witch, big softie, feminine male elf who is a rogue, always drunk and constantly swearing axe-wielding dwarf. Great, character tropes unite. Oh, also old lady with no character, dog and a golem.
MEANWHILE Dragon Age 2, while also having rather standart chararcters in terms of their, well, character, here Bioware at least tried to do somenthing different with classes and succeeded. Actual female warrior NOT in boob armor or armor bra. Elf that isn't a rogue or tree-hugging ranger/mage, but a damn semi-berserk warrior. Elf that isn't a rogue or tree-hugging ranger/mage, but a master of a forbidden art of blood magic. Beardless, cunning and witty dwarf with a crossbow. Well, there is also Isabella, but hey, every game need female in revealing clothing, because for some it is actually something that draws then to the game.

3. Hawke. I'll keep it short here. I'll just say that being able to talk via text boxes only when every other character in the universe is gifted with a voice is far from my liking. Either everyone is mute (maybe except for key NPC's) or everyone of importance is voiced.

4. Inability to equip party members with different armor. Yes, I actually think that it is a good thing. Why? Because they are not your walking item bags that can also deal damage. They are CHARACTERS. And characters have preferences. You think Sten would actually wear a damn golden armor? Yeah right. Besides, I think when it comes to party members' equipment, I think everyone should go Shadowrun road, where every character you can hire for the job and your constant party members have their own preferences in equipment and you can't change it.

5. Combat. Everyone, whose opinion on DAO's combat I've read think that it was the weakest part of the game, so no point in discussing it.

6. At the very least DA2 didn't have an NPC that said "Save my family. -OK, lead us. - Great, buy the DLC."



Also, I am not defending Final Fantasy XIII, but Sazh deserved better game and paradigm shift system is actually good.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Resident Evil: Operation Racoon City wasn't a terrible game. Or rather, the things that made it a terrible game could be easily fixed. There's such great lore to draw from that you could surely make it worthy of it's series.

My biggest problem with Racoon City was the fact that I couldn't find ANYONE to play with. I set my game to open every time, switched difficulties, and ran entire levels without a single person ever joining me. And if I searched for a game, I as lucky if I found three. I bought it at launch, when it would have been at its max, and it felt like a ghost town. I even tried the DLC missions where you play as the good guys, and I found no one, either to join or joining me. I refuse to think that the game was that much of a ghost town right at launch, but it certainly ruined the experience for me. Fun to play, but would have been way more if I could find other people to play with.

But others things were great:
1. Story. I am TIRED of Biowares "You are the chosen one" stories. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire,DAO, they all have the same basic damn plot. With DA2 they finally decided to create something new and different i.e. something like "rags to riches" start of the story. Plus, I liked how it basically had 3 stories which spun through multiple years and showed how Hawkes relationship with others grew. Speaking of which...

2. Characters. Lets take a look at DAO party for a second: Funny guy, good girl, ***** witch, big softie, feminine male elf who is a rogue, always drunk and constantly swearing axe-wielding dwarf. Great, character tropes unite. Oh, also old lady with no character, dog and a golem.
MEANWHILE Dragon Age 2, while also having rather standart chararcters in terms of their, well, character, here Bioware at least tried to do somenthing different with classes and succeeded. Actual female warrior NOT in boob armor or armor bra. Elf that isn't a rogue or tree-hugging ranger/mage, but a damn semi-berserk warrior. Elf that isn't a rogue or tree-hugging ranger/mage, but a master of a forbidden art of blood magic. Beardless, cunning and witty dwarf with a crossbow. Well, there is also Isabella, but hey, every game need female in revealing clothing, because for some it is actually something that draws then to the game.

Preach, brother, preach. I loved the characters in DA II. They are probably the best written in the entire series because they all have different opinions, and God help you if you make some of them angry. Plus, I adore Merrill.
And yeah, it was refreshing to go from the same old, "You are chosen to save the world," to a nobody caught up in events and just trying to stay afloat.
Where the real pity comes in is the DLC, especially Legacy. I feel that that DLC showed what Dragon Age II could have been if it had been given the proper amount of time to develop.

 

[Rayce Archer]

After the first act, Daikatana is really fun and pretty well designed. As a multiplayer experience it's easily as good as Half Life or Quake 2. Nobody played it far enough to realize this, so it got written off.

 

[dangoball]

Mine would be Fallout 3.

Yes, I admit Fallout: NV is superior in both mechanics and narrative, but Fallout 3 just got the post-apo atmosphere so well. Especially the opening sequence in your Vault compared to Goodspring and Megaton just seemed so right, so Fallout, unlike aforementioned Goodspring as the first settlement you encounter, Goodspring being just a Wild West town. Even Novac, should be consider Goodspring just the tutorial area, doesn't really give the right post-apo feel, just a run down town. And those Perks, so cowboy-y.
This initial disappointment kept me from really diving into New Vegas for quite some time. Granted, once I got over it, everything got way better, but Fallout 3 just reeled me in much more successfully with its design. It really kept the struggle to rebuild which I feel is integral part to any post-apo setting and New Vegas seems to be somewhat lacking on that front.

The fact that I had to ramp up the difficulty to get off the hunting rifle and supermutants were piss easy detracted from the experience a bit, but hey, I never said it was perfect.

 

[Ronald Nand]

For me it would be Deus Ex: The Fall (PC)

When released it was pretty much universally loathed. While it isn't a great game, and doesn't hold a candle compared to Human Revolution or the Original, it isn't a bad game if you play Deus Ex as a stealth game, the level design was open enough and there was never a situation where it forced you into combat. I got the game for about $2 so I guess I felt I got what I paid for, its an okay game to just spend the weekend on and forget. It's not as awful as the steam review for it indicate, its just mediocre.

Since I'm talking about Deus Ex, I suppose Invisible War wasn't too terrible, it's level design and universal ammo system was pretty bad but it never forced you into combat and I actually felt the augmentations in that game were better executed and felt more useful. The story tried some interesting ideas but unfortunately there was no reasonable side, in the end we were asked to choose between technology zealots, religious zealots and the Illuminati, even the ending where you reject all the factions sucks.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

Another one for Skyward Sword. I really loved that game. I remember buying it the same time as Skyrim, and I had more fun with Skyward Sword than Skyrim (even though I still like and play Skyrim.) As for the motion controls, I had absolutely zero problems with them. They worked perfectly fine, at least for me. Took a while to get used to, but after a while it became pretty easy. I liked it better than Twilight Princess.

Also, to an extent, Wind Waker, but that's one that's getting a lot more love over the years. It's not only my favorite Zelda game, but one of my all-time favorite games. I never had the chance to play Ocarina, but I would put WW over OoT simply because I find the location and setting more interesting, and I prefer sailing vast oceans, discovering new islands (with no loading screens) over riding your horse in large empty fields. I also find the art direction far more appealing than Ocarina, which to me always looked dark, muddy, and too much browns and dark greens.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

I get why people feel the way they do about this game, I really do. But in my eyes, Resident Evil 6 was not a bad game. In fact, I'd say it was quite good in a lot of ways, and brought more meaningful things to the table than plenty of other games do.
In an industry where Assassin's Creed exists and somehow gets away with adding meaningless features and otherwise doing the same thing a half dozen times. Here we have a game sequel that actually brings forth a polished new core gameplay, with a unique set of enemies, 4 lengthy campaigns with their unique feel, and characters each with distinct gameplay.

People say this was a "generic third person shooter." Wrong. Generic would be something like Gears of War, and Spec Ops the line. Where the amount of control you have is quite barebones and the depth of the gameplay revolves moreso around your placement and controlling your weapons. RE6 is far more than that. While I do understand that at it's surface, it's gameplay does look generic. But, if you bother to get acquainted with the controls and capabilities of your characters. You'll be able to see that you have a vast amount of control of your character, far moreso than many other 3rd person shooters I can think of.

Tank controls, for what it's worth, was now gone completely. Your character had full range of movement, and you can not only roll in any direction. You can duck individual attacks, shoot up from the ground, slide in any direction while shooting, sprint forward then dive while turning in midair to shoot behind you.

You had full control of your melee now, instead of relying on context-sensitive prompts, but you still had those prompts available like RE4 and 5 in order to use special grapples, or powerful combo finishers. Jake even had his even own unique melee system. You could reverse enemy attacks. Quick-shoot enemies, allowing you to instantly target a closeby enemy, even enemies behind you, with any weapon (including sniper-rifles) at the cost of stamina. How any of this gameplay equates to "generic" is beyond me, as I've not seen a control scheme and capabilities like this as far as I can remember.

The enemies are damned interesting. And I meant the J'avo, not the zombies (although the zombies were fine too). J'avo were the most prevalent enemies in the game and by far the most fascinating. They behave like your normal mook-with-guns on the surface, but things change quickly when you begin shooting them.
Blowing off limbs, and hell even their heads, will sometimes cause them to mutate into completely different threats with augmented abilities. The J'avo have a total of FIFTEEN mutations, and often being able to mutate several times at once - Combining these 15 mutations in different ways. I've heard Jim Sterling criticize this in his reviews as the game "punishing" you for hurting enemies by making them more dangerous. But I don't see it that way. Yes, the enemies can morph when you hurt them, but this is an obstacle you constantly need to be aware of and be prepared to overcome. It almost makes insta-kill techniques extremely valuable. If you blast at a J'avo until it becomes an armored berserker with extremely powerful claw arms, you gotta deal with that shit.

And yet I definitely do understand how people feel about RE6 being such a departure from it's horror roots. I can praise the gameplay endlessly. And it's overblown hollywoodesque presentation, worked pretty well for it, I felt. And I appreciated how every campaign had a distinct feel from the other, and were still pretty lengthy to boot.

 

[sageoftruth]

The only one I remember playing that often comes under fire is Devil May Cry 4, or at least the Nero portion of it. I found playing as Nero to be pretty fun. Every time you attacked, you had the chance to reward yourself by revving his sword and unleashing a stronger version of any of his attacks. That was fun.

Also, during the boss fights, finding ways to use the devil arm against them made each fight interesting and very rewarding when you managed to nail a boss with it. The best part was how they didn't just make it like God of War, where you attack a boss until you get prompted to grab him. There were bosses with hidden parts that could be grabbed and pummeled, or even better, the parts where you could use your devil arm to counter a boss attack, like when grabbing a thrown spear and hurling it back at the attacker. Fun stuff.

Nero may not be a great character, but I wouldn't mind seeing him return for more devil arm action.

 

[thoughtwrangler]

FFXII had a fun battle system. It blended turn-based play with free-moving combat. It felt new, interesting and made the game feel fluid while still requiring strategy. It's not a replacement for traditional turn-based battles, but those tend to become boring and distracting after a while.

And let's be honest, if the game took no chances then there would have been no value to it.

I'm with you on that. I thought it was an improvement and a rare case of innovation in the Final Fantasy series. The FFX battle system was good, but I felt more engaged with FFXII. It was nice to not just turn my brain off and press X until the victory dance.

I'm probably one of a few people that liked Megaman 7. It was a bit weird playing a game with that sprite ratio that wasn't in the X series, but it was fun for what it was. Even if the ending sequence had Megaman act way out of character.

Also, Megaman Legends, Legends 2 and the misadventures of Tron Bonne. Hardcore Megaman/Megaman X fans seem to hate those games. And while they were flawed, they were very charming and a blast to play. I'll defend them and mourn the cancellation of Megaman Legends 3 till my dying day.

 

[RJ 17]

Also to you high brow video game connoisseurs that make up the bulk of the escapist. Bioshock Infinite deserves all the praise it got, it was a fantastic game blah blah unnecessary defending a great game blah!

Of course it's all just a matter of personal tastes. I know that I, for one, don't like games built around bullet-sponge combat and stories with plot-holes big enough to fly an airship through.

 

[Evonisia]

Also to you high brow video game connoisseurs that make up the bulk of the escapist. Bioshock Infinite deserves all the praise it got, it was a fantastic game blah blah unnecessary defending a great game blah!

Of course it's all just a matter of personal tastes. I know that I, for one, don't like games built around bullet-sponge combat and stories with plot-holes big enough to fly an airship through.

My major issue with BI is not plot-holes or anything like that, it's that the type of plot it is basically makes it impossible to complain about. Make a complaint and get responded to with "but here's my elaborate twisting of the multiple universe thing to make it make sense" and I just groan.

Still, I can't hate the game like its ardent offenders can, but it got its critical reception of greatest game evar alongside The Last of Us and GTA V so oh well.

 

[Asclepion]

Snip

Agreed on all points. I was absolutely giddy during Leon's campaign, the plane sequence was one of the best play experiences that Resident Evil has ever done. The other campaigns faltered at some places, but Resident Evil 6 was overall excellent.

 

[Silence]

Have to agree with Dark Souls 2. After all the bashing most seem to forget that there are so many more playstyles, unlike the first Dark Souls. Dual Wielding is viable, you can play left- or right-handed, you have fairer bonfires.
In short: Gameplay is superior than Dark Souls'.

But the atmosphere lacks and I get every complaint about it, although I don't think it is that bad. Most hate Dark Souls 2 only because they played 500 hours of the first Dark Souls, then 300 of the second (like 3-4 playthroughs) and then got bored like Matthewmathosis - or just watched his critique and did not even care to find out if they would like it.


And Deus Ex: Invisible War wasn't really that bad, just the levels were soooooooooooooooooo small.

 

[ArcaneGamer]

FFXII had a fun battle system. It blended turn-based play with free-moving combat. It felt new, interesting and made the game feel fluid while still requiring strategy. It's not a replacement for traditional turn-based battles, but those tend to become boring and distracting after a while.

And let's be honest, if the game took no chances then there would have been no value to it.

I hated the battle system initially when it came out and it made me not play it past a few hours.

Lately, I've been considering giving it another shot, now that I'm older and wiser and also for some of the points you brought up. I had since branched out of how I thought an rpg should play, especially a FF game.

Glad to see someone else agrees that DAII wasn't that bad. I'll agree with what you said, as I can think of a few characters off the top of my head that I liked. I also like that avatar of yours.