Let's start a town/country/colony.

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John Galt

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Dec 29, 2007
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Behold: TEXT WALL!!!

I'd set up a Technate. Essentially, it's a continent-wide government system run by engineers. You've got the resources of Canada and Mexico, the breadbasket and industrial capacity of the United States, and the commercial potential for Caribbean tourism. The North American continent should be able to provide the necessary resources and infrastructure, as well as the army of personnel capable of maintaining it. Large-scale mechanization of industry would eliminate many jobs, leaving only skilled workers and administrators in employment.

The economy would replace the fickle beast of currency with a so-called Energy Credit. This credit is equal to a share in the Technate's total production. Instead of being based solely on the whims of the many, the prices of goods in a Technate would rely on how much resources, and energy are put into an object. Therefore, consumers are goaded into choosing efficient and environmentally sustainable products. Services would be priced according to whomever performed the service, as they're harder to translate into matters of resources and watt-hours.

As for the loss of jobs caused by renovating the economy, those unable to find work would receive enough compensation from the Technate to maintain a decent quality of life, which when you think about the abundance of goods that can be created under proper management of resources, wouldn't be much. Those who are actually employed in the economy whether as technicians, administrators, engineers, or in service fields, would receive compensation based on their contribution to the Technate.

The unemployed, being of the surplus population which is unnecessary to the growth of society, will be restricted in breeding. One-child-per-couple regulations will have to be passed in order to keep the population at a sustainable level, something that could not be done in the long term with the legions of unemployed efficient management will create. This infringement upon human rights would be unique in a Technate, as its goal is to create a utopia in which men and women can do what they want. However, moral ideals must give way to simple practicality at some point. It is better to limit population growth for a few generations then to discover unsupportable masses later on.

The means of production would be put under heavy regulation. The most skilled administrators currently working in any factory or plant would be given control over said facility. The only way to make it big economically would be competence rather than luck at the stock markets.

Modern-day cities would be converted or recycled to provide the highest quality of life possible. All cities would be planned to take full advantage of their natural surroundings, with residential and commercial districts being placed so they do not overlap with the industrial facilities. Most roads in North America would be abandoned to be replaced with high speed railways connecting the cities and industrial enclaves. Mass transit would be the norm for transportation in most cities due to the simple fact that one tram takes less resources to move 50 people than 50 cars.

As far as the political system is concerned, the directors of the country would not be democratically elected. Those who the most competence in administration would be given control over the country's infrastructure. Decisions regarding civil rights and laws would be passed by popular vote. Those who are not democratically elected will have no power over the people and those who've not demonstrated supreme skill at administrating industries will be given no power over the economy. This set up will allow for maximum civil rights in an economic landscape run by the competent and not the popular.

While this seems like an impossibility today, this is a feasible system. Like it or not, capitalism is on it's way out. Whether it takes decades or centuries, keeping everyone employed so they have a decent quality to life will become increasingly difficult as mechanized alternatives able to produce more for less are developed. For example: City A has long relied on Generic Industries for it's employment. However, GI replaces their legions of factory workers with machines in order to create more and in theory, sell more. However, because much of the populace is now out of work, they are unable to buy the numerous products cheaply produced by GI. Thus you have a disparity between production and consumption which hurts both producers and consumers.

If this continues, which it most likely will, seeing as how engineers are difficult to control. We will come to a point at which we have an abundance of goods, but no one to use them. The population will get restless and rebel against those who produce. Populations are growing to fast to keep them employed in irreplaceable industries and engineers are improving means of production too fast to regulate. Thus, the only logical path I see is abandoning capitalism at that boiling-point and moving to a new system.

While this may sound like communism (something I, as a John Galt have no love for), it is closer to Ayn Rand's ideals than you think. It supports individual rights and the "men of the mind". It is these men and women who will lead the Technate, not those who do nothing to justify their power.
 

Zemalac

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Apr 22, 2008
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If I may add three things to my design...

Nuclear weaponry is a must. It doesn't even have to work--just have a big missile with the word NUKE painted on the side in official-looking letters.

And more importantly, a big Nerf battlefield with attached armory. For reasons that should be obvious.

Last but not least, everyone here who seems to know what they're doing would be put in charge of worrying about important stuff, because I would never trust myself with handling things like global warming or society-wide changes. That stuff backfires waaaaay too much when people who don't know what they're doing try to fix things.

@John Galt: It's an interesting idea, but there are several problems with it. For example, having civil rights defined by popular vote has been proven time and time again to be a horrible idea, and your description of how capitalism will fall is eerily similar to a similar prediction made during the first Industrial Revolution. As you may have noticed, things have pretty much kept on going.
 

John Galt

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Dec 29, 2007
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Good point. And all I was focusing on was how having one person choose for the many was a bad idea. Hmm...maybe it would be best if the culture could be saturated with enough propaganda to counteract pre-existing prejudices and get them all to think in a rational manner. But then you've got the issue of who defines what's right. Dangit, I knew formulating a utopia wouldn't be easy.

On the capitalism issue, while my scenario was predicted to occur as a result of the Industrial Revolution, it was staved off by the fact that the world could still support a drastic improvement in the quality of human life. Fuels and materials were seemingly boundless and the expansion did not seem like it would stop. However, we're getting more and more pressed for resources, which means expansion will not be able to create as many new jobs to be performed by masses of workers. A system of mechanized producers will be the most practical solution in the future as resources become more limited. Whether it happens due to peak oil or not is irrelevant, the fact is, that it will happen.
 

crepesack

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May 20, 2008
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as a joke i would construct a totalitarian town with forced labour and communist ideals then surround that town with another city built on democracy and capitalism but tantalize the citizens of the inner town with freedom, but no really this is just a joke and if it reminds you of something feel free to comment.
 

John Galt

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Heinlein is without a doubt my favorite author and political theorist(Sorry Ayn Rand). I just got done reading "For Us The Living"(Again, not "We The Living". Really sorry Ayn). If you want to learn more about the Technocratic movement, check out this site.

http://www.technocracy.org/

While a bit leftist, I can't help but agree with them.
 

Jenkins

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Dec 4, 2007
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khell. if you wont let me have my way maybe ill just shoot YOU. 2 birds with one stone? or should i say penguins? muhahahah *eats penguin jerky*
 

Zemalac

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Apr 22, 2008
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I just had a random idea I'd like to throw out there. Create a political system based on Calvinball! The only rules are the ones the players make up! Sure, it probably wouldn't work but it would be entertaining to watch and that's the best we can hope for when it comes to government.

Starship Troopers: Intriguing political statement that was totally nerfed in the movie.

@John Galt: If, through some bizzare series of events, you try out your idea in real life, I would like to remain separate from it as an impartial observer. Because while it looks like you're on to something good here, I think it might take a while to work out the bugs (as in, you can expect heavily armed revolutionaries within a day).

But that doesn't really matter here, because this is a place of theoretical discourse! On with the large-scale dismantling of major cities and entrenched institutions! I'll be watching from the Moon.
 

Kovash86

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May 23, 2008
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Aye I've heard stories about the original story, it was originally called Starship Trooper (<---note that is singular) they would send only one guy to a planet to conquer it since they had really nice suits of armor. I personally didn't like the first one all that much and hated the second one (yes there was a starship troopers 2)
 

John Galt

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Dec 29, 2007
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Zemalac said:
@John Galt: If, through some bizzare series of events, you try out your idea in real life, I would like to remain separate from it as an impartial observer. Because while it looks like you're on to something good here, I think it might take a while to work out the bugs (as in, you can expect heavily armed revolutionaries within a day).
Seeing as how this plan is designed to be implemented when the bottom falls out of enough markets to cause world panic and topple the governments of Canada and the US, I think revolutionaries will be the least of the problems we'd face. Besides, I'm not sure if a significant number of North Americans would be spurred to such violence that the infrastructure would be irreparably damaged. The problem of revolutionaries would come from those in current positions of power, ie: politicians and the CEOs of major companies. The businessmen would be in no position to fight as in the event capitalism is undone, they lose all power.

The primary problem would be the political leaders of modern societies and anyone else trying to set up their own state in the vaccuum. Unless they could be paid off with arbitrary positions and titles, I think the best way to deal with them would be to emotionally manipulate the people to disown them. Once the stocks go down, people will listen to anyone, so it's important to get your message out first.



Khell_Sennet said:
Roughnecks (CG cartoon) was closer to the books meaning, but still pretty damn far off.
Sarah Brightman was closer than the movie. The movie basically took the name and a loose idea of the setting and ran with it.
 

Kovash86

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May 23, 2008
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I have an idea Jenkins, how about we dress you up as a penguin (while you sleep) give you a laser rifle (or a dummy rifle with a remote triggering device set to fire a real rifle which is strategically hidden in the room we leave you in which is guided by an infrared sensor) and put you in a room with a mirror (note the costume use A-freakin'-mazing and looks exactly like a penguin) then we wake you up and watch the shenanigans. Worst comes to worst we set up a second remote triggering device in case you figure it out and give it to whoever wins a rock-paper-scissors contest.
 

John Galt

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Dec 29, 2007
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Better idea. Give a penguin a knife and place him on a loose ice floe with Jenkins. Kick 'em both out to sea and whichever one returns alive will be the architect of our penguin-relations policy. If officials in the real world were chosen in a similar manner, social studies teachers in school would have no trouble getting students to pay attention. Also, people would see global warming as a direct threat to democracy and thus be inclined to stop it. I find a single flaw in the plan, it's a win-win.
 

Jenkins

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Dec 4, 2007
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the penguin would do ok. but he brought a knife to a bazooka fight. phail galt!

i see i am started to get cornered..i must bring my allys to battle *sounds horn* ARISE ALL REDNECKS. PULL OUT YOUR SHOTGUNS, THESE PEOPLE ARE REFUSING TO LET US HUNT. TO BATTLEEEEEE"


and yes caps were nessisary, deal with it :)
 

Kovash86

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May 23, 2008
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...it's ok to hunt, but penguins are cute, therefore you cannot hunt THEM, and for some reason you can't hunt endangered species, I would try to find a way around this but I have a conscience, and since I have such a thing I am also forced to try and stop you if you try doing something illegal, usually by just calling the cops, and telling them you are hunting endangered/cute animals.
 

Jenkins

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Dec 4, 2007
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duh? who didnt know that :)

wait. i cant smile at my enemy! "surrender the penguins and ill only kill some of you!"
 

Kovash86

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May 23, 2008
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You know...there is a guy at my favorite local gaming store, that you remind me of a lot...we call him sunshine, I think he has a real name, as I'm pretty sure our other nick for him, Dezzy, isn't his given name. Do you try to give people hugs while you are annoying them? Or stand really close to people when you are talking to them?