Let's talk Batman fanboys

[KeyMaster45]

What the fuck would stop superman from making Bruce explode with a punch before batman could even see superman? Nothing but nope "superman is boring so batman wins".

Actually it would be because Batman stabs him with the cryptonite dagger he carries around while Superman's attention was focused on punching Batman into vapor. Plus, you know, Superman isn't fucking crazy and would probably show restraint.

 

[omega 616]

snip

So you're argument is superman would vaporize batman with a punch, but batman would have stabbed superman 'cos superman was distracted by turning batman into vapour?

Couple of questions, how can a vaporized batman stab? Wouldn't a Kryptonite blade kill superman, which would go against batmans "thou shalt not kill" doctrine.

 

[teebeeohh]

what bugs me most about batman being so popular is that he frequently shows up in other bat-related stories and hijacks those with his overarching ones that make absolutely no sense.
and while we are at that: he was stabbed through the stomach after days of not sleeping and drinking drugged water while being psychologically tortured, then proceeds to beat a super assassin and escape. but nope, no superpowers here.

 

[KeyMaster45]

snip

So you're argument is superman would vaporize batman with a punch, but batman would have stabbed superman 'cos superman was distracted by turning batman into vapour?

Couple of questions, how can a vaporized batman stab? Wouldn't a Kryptonite blade kill superman, which would go against batmans "thou shalt not kill" doctrine.

If superman is fighting batman then one of them has most likely gone rogue (my money is on the crazy one that dresses like a bat) and their fight is assumed to be to the death. If batman's who's gone rogue then it's superman who'll be trying to show restraint because Bruce is his friend. If it's Superman who's gone rogue well then yeah, if he and Batman end up in a one on one fight you can kiss Batman's ass goodbye, but Batman will probably try to take Superman with him in the process.

I never said batman gets vaporized before he stabs superman, I said he stabs superman while the punch is being thrown. Superman doesn't throw punches at light speed so odds are good that Batman will see it coming, and even when it hits it's not going to turn him to vapor like you say. Superman might punch through Batman, but he won't vaporize him. For the sake of the argument we'll say the punch has been thrown at Batman's abdomen to assure the largest target and most damage done to vital organs.

I cannot stress enough that there are many variables to take into account during a fight like this, and in many of them Batman loses very badly, but the batman plus superman's fist scenario is the one you proposed.

So, superman throws the punch.
Batman throws himself into the punch with the dagger drawn.
Superman's fist creates a hole through batman's torso, and batman is now effectively impaled on said fist plus arm.
Having taken advantage of how close this would put him to superman, batman has now stabbed superman with the kryptonite dagger; hopefully somewhere vital.
Batman dies impaled on superman's arm, and superman dies from the kryptonite dagger now jammed into him.

Batman still loses, but superman doesn't win either.
All the fans are angry, and the writers have a good laugh about it down at the pub.

 

[bjj hero]

I just think batman is a horrible charecter. Hes the son a multibillionare industrialist, inherited all of his prestige and wealth and is simply better than everyone else. I know polymaths exist but the areas hes an expert at couldnt all be studied in one lifetime. Whether its his 100 odd martial arts, medicine, biology, physics, chemistry, gymnastics, escapology, computer science, criminology, psychology, engineering, forensics, robotics, expert pilot helicopters and jets, the list goes on and on. Thats the BS for me. A prolific inventor...

Its all about him being landed gentry, multibillionnaire industrialist, the elite and simply better than normal folk. By day he is the philanthropist giving to the deserving poor. By night he swoops down from his ivory tower to terrorise and imprison the poor, the disabled, the mentally ill, foreigners and ethnic minorities. Its like a bat themed alAtlas Shrugged. If Ayn Rand did comics, shed do Batman. Hes normally superior to his foes thanks to the stuff he can buy and all of the training (which I've already covered) that he can do because he inherited shit loads of money, a mansion, even a servant. The law doesn't apply to Batman like it does to normal people. He can fly around beating up whoever, if I formed a lynch mob and rounded people up Id be in prison. Even in a costume.

A horrible elitist charecter. At least Supes has the excuse that hes an alien. Batman has to win, hes capitalism, maybe evem the American dream, in a bat costume. Fanboys tend to get quite defensive over this though. I guess it clashes with the "He's just like us, unlike Superman" idea.

 

[Frankster]

Batman fanboy here, can't say i identify with the kind of fanboy op is describing.

I like the "wins if is prepared" schtick as it makes sense to me.
For his lack of superpowers batman has the luxury of being very rich, with that money he can acquire whatever his opponents weakness is and keep stacking the deck in his favor for the confrontation.
As repetitive as it is, i find this believable. Of course the illusion is shattered when going mano to mano with beings that could shatter a normal human with 1 blow, but thats just poor writing.

Also meh at superman vs batman arguments. They are like best buddies in my view who hang out in a cafe in gotham in between saving their cities:

 

[Sandernista]

What the fuck would stop superman from making Bruce explode with a punch before batman could even see superman? Nothing but nope "superman is boring so batman wins".

Actually it would be because Batman stabs him with the cryptonite dagger he carries around while Superman's attention was focused on punching Batman into vapor. Plus, you know, Superman isn't fucking crazy and would probably show restraint.

In a one on one fight, Batman is red mist before he can even think about going for any radioactive rocks.

 

[The Bucket]

Let me ask a question, what would you rather see: A great warrior humanity's finest and brightest does battle against a god and wins by the smallest margin possible... or would you rather see said god say: "Nope!" and squish the warrior into pasta-sauce? the first one has drama and tension, the latter however just seems petty and anticlimactic

The problem isnt Batman being able to beat superhumans, the problem is that it almost always happens by Batman getting super humanly fast/tough himself, or the villain acting dumb/forgetting he has specific powers or some random object falling into Batmans lap that wins it.
It doesnt feel tense or exciting, it just feels like the writers are coming around and making sure none of the big kids get too rough with Bats.

 

[omega 616]

snip

Nope, nope, nope.

Come on, have you heard yourself "superman doesn't punch at full speed", "batman draws the knife as superman is throwing a punch". What you're saying is just madness, not spartan, just madness.

Superman would hit batman like fist sized bullet fired from a rail gun, batman would be a mist of blood before he could even think "superman"... It would be like you saying" Yeah, of course I can slash a bullet out of the air with a sheathed katana", you would just end up with a hole in your head.

Didn't I read somewhere superman is only a fraction slower than the flash? If so that means you're saying batman is a fraction slower than superman as wel.. Not bad for a mere mortal, eh?

It's just a mismatch of power, superman is just superior in every way.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Friend of mine always argues that Batman can take Superman simply for the fact that Superman can be taken by surprise and Batman can't.

Um. No. Just nooooooo. In every version of Batman, he's take by surprise all the time. He's been sucker-punched, he's been knocked out, he's been captured alive. It happens. Hell, I remember from the Animated Series that one of the most common reasons he gets out of deadly situations is simply because he's lucky. That's what we call "divine intervention", kiddos.

And that's pretty much the reason why people believe Batman wins in every situation. Batman makes contingency plans all the time, that's not the same as saying they always work. There have been plenty of times where Batman makes a plan and it goes awry. Here's the issue: People want to justify Batman's presence amongst the god-like characters of the DC universe so badly that they over-emphasize his abilities to the point where he's completely and utterly flawless.

..... Why? Why do we need to justify liking one superhero over another? Why are we so insecure about our favorite hero that we need to turn him into fucking Jesus Christ before comparing him to the red-caped alien? The reasons you like Batman aren't because he can punch harder than Superman, so why are you so rabid about comparing the two? We like Batman because he's the man with the plan, because he's smart and clever and can figure things out before anyone else. Why do we need to have him beat up Superman before we can admit we like him more? Why can't we just let him be what he is: human.

 

[KeyMaster45]

snip

Nope, nope, nope.

Come on, have you heard yourself "superman doesn't punch at full speed", "batman draws the knife as superman is throwing a punch". What you're saying is just madness, not spartan, just madness.

Superman would hit batman like fist sized bullet fired from a rail gun, batman would be a mist of blood before he could even think "superman"... It would be like you saying" Yeah, of course I can slash a bullet out of the air with a sheathed katana", you would just end up with a hole in your head.

Didn't I read somewhere superman is only a fraction slower than the flash? If so that means you're saying batman is a fraction slower than superman as wel.. Not bad for a mere mortal, eh?

It's just a mismatch of power, superman is just superior in every way.

Look dude, I just don't care. I really don't. I like Batman's villains more than I like him, hell I think he's kind of a boring super hero. From what I know about the DC universe that's how I picture your scenario going.

If you want to go ahead and turn this into some kind of comics pissing match about which fake person can beat the tar out of the other fake person go right ahead; I'm sure someone will be more than happy to debate you.

 

[SwimmingRock]

Except it reads like the "Bat-Shark Repellent" that the fanboys rage about.

I actually liked Bat-Shark-Repellent: campy Batman is my favorite Batman,

There's a good chance then that you already know about the Batman '66 comic and you've already seen Batman: Brave and the Bold. Just in case you haven't looked into either, I recommend them for some great versions of campy Batman.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I enjoy Batman, but I try not to take it too seriously.

The whole "well he doesn't have any superpowers!" is, to me, a cop out. We're supposed to believe that he's a master of basically every martial art on the planet, the world's greatest detective, and expert in so many scientific disciplines I've lost count, works out to the point of being in shape to compete in the Olympics, and also manages to fight crime and have an alter-ego? Even if he never slept a single minute of his life and devoted every waking minute to studying and training, no human being could possibly learn and train that much, it's just not remotely possible.

So his superpower is us taking his character with a grain of salt.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

It's kinda makes sense (And is a lot more funnier) if you think of it like this.

Spoiler: Image

Batman basically does this every waking second of his life.

*While frying eggs*
Hmmm...I wonder what would happen if everyone in my life tried to kill me?...

 

[Something Amyss]

I actually liked Bat-Shark-Repellent: campy Batman is my favorite Batman,

Fair enough to you, but you're apparently a very tiny minority.

No. There still shows up people who he has not encountered which beat him and humiliate him. Bane? Outsmarted him, broke his back. Hush? Outsmarted him (at first), then beat the crap out of him (He was saved by Gordon, IIRC). Same goes for several other villains. It's only after the set-back that he can acquire info to put in his dossier, and thus handle them the next time.

It's only due to inconsistent writing that he suffers these setbacks, though. That was kind of the point. Instead, you highlight the rather inconsistent writing.

 

[Sack of Cheese]

I don't like how Batman keeps creeping into other comics (for example: Justice league international) or gets over-exposure in video games (Injustice story mode has Batman as playable character twice, he seems to be the main character of the story, has more portraits than any other characters and he alone has 2 trophies relating to him).

I understand they need his appearance to boost sales, but still... He's just a rich guy who beats up poorer people and likes to hang out with little boys in a dark cave. It'd be a twist if Batman was secretly a metahuman who thinks he's a human-being because he's insane.

I also dislike the fact that fans bring up "Batman has kryptonite" in Superman vs Batman discussion because apparently they forgot Superman doesn't even need to close in on Batman to beat him. In Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, Superman easily blows Batman's kryptonite away with his breath from far away, or he can even use heat vision against Batman. I do prefer Superman and Wonder Woman, I don't know since when being nice is a bad thing.

Oh and there's also this:

 

[jesse220]

So, can anyone explain to me why people have this attitude?

Think about the average comic book target audience (in the 80s particularly, when The Dark Knight Returns was released and started all of this) they're generally physically inferior but think of themselves as mentally superior. When they idealize Batman to the point of being able to beat absolutely anyone purely because he's smart, what's actually going on is they're thinking (maybe subconsciously) 'I could beat up those jerks that used to bully me in high school because I'm clever like Batman'.

I'm a Batman fan but I concede he would get his ass handed to him in many, many one on one encounters and I hate this 'he can beat up anybody' mentality as much as anyone. The reason I like the 'contingency plan' thing is because it gives us an insight into his world. He's fought with these people countless times and often puts his life in their hands, but he still can't trust them. He'll never be able to trust anyone ('cept maybe Silver). That's what makes him so brilliantly broken, he wants fight the war on crime but he doesn't want to win, he wants to keep fighting forever, he wants his friends to be evil so he can beat them. At least, that's my interpretation.

I don't think any serious Batman writers actually fall in the 'Batman is able to win any fight evar' camp, but they use his plans as a way of building tension. It's more tense if a regular old human is fighting a super-powered villain and the villain has the upper hand and Bats is just about to bite it, we learn that it's all part of Batman's plan. It's just badass, like a spy movie or a heist movie, when they get caught and it looks like the jig is up, but it's all part of the plan. It works in the context of Batman Vs. Villain because most of Batman's villains are crazy or stupid and batman has a lot of experience fighting them so he's able to predict their moves. In the context of Batman Vs. Superman, it's ridiculous. Superman wins. Get over it.

the reference you are looking for, by the way, is "Justice League: Tower of Babel"

Justice League: Doom is the animated version.

 

[DementedSheep]

Well a character beating a character that makes no sense for them to even be able to stand up against or take any hits from is not uncommon and Batman?s preparedness is practically a superpower.
The underdog or "normal" guy overcoming impossible odds and wining against something far more powerful than them thru smarts is pretty popular so that's probably why people get so attached to the idea. Can be great in the hands of a good writer but If you have someone who isn't a particularly great writer trying to do this it often just doesn't make sense and makes every other character seem like a moron.