Let's talk frankly about Nintendo

[EyeReaper]

To be fair about that last point, Nintendo has an odd habit of wrenching out any and all personality from their main characters and giving it out to the side ones. There's a reason why most gamers like Luigi more than Mario.

besides that, the last time Nintendo tried to give Link a personality... well...


Yeah... I'm fine with Midna having all the lines instead.

 

[Pseudonym]

It's called Legend of Zelda: Majorra's Mask. Everybody knows that moon. Most people who've played it remember the atmosphere that the moon so perfectly symbolises. In five years we'll have to see if most people remember Joel and Ellie.

Well, probably, since 5 years is peanuts. And it's already been 2 years since that game got released, so we're nearly halfway there already.

It seems like kind of a moot point to claim one is more memorable than the other -Something we like or that made an impact on us is always going to be more memorable than something we don't or didn't.

It certainly is a moot point. I said 'we'll have to see'. I did not say 'most people will definitely forget the last of us tomorrow'. I merely wanted to point out that we already know majorra's mask is very memorable and we don't know yet how memorable the last of us is because it has been out for only a year or two. Years which were relatively low on good games to begin with. So using the last of us as a measurabing bar for 'touching people' is risky. More to the point, I don't care much about whether or not the last of us will be remembered. I merely wanted to point out that there are nintendo games that are actually remembered fondly and that have touched people. His remark 'where is nintendo's TLOU' seems a bit hollow in that light.

 

[verdant monkai]

But, I never see these offending threads. Ever.

So you haven't paid a visit to any IGN forums then? You'll find plenty of likely lads claiming that Nintnedo is for babbies and they should stop supporting consoles, and go into making shooters for microsoft.

 

[xaszatm]

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

Well once upon a time before the whole [debate that will not be named.] ravished the forums and made this site a barren wasteland there were at least a couple of notable users who always made threads whinging about people whinging about Nintendo.

You were put into what's his name's place after he fell silent, elected to counter any negative Nintendo threads! But there hasn't been any recently, I've missed you.

Wait, why does Dragonbums get to be the new NDF Leader? I thought I got that.

OT: Maybe you're confusing other sites for this one? Because lately the number of Nintendo...anything articles or OP topics are at an all time low. That being said, I do agree that Nintendo tends to get the short end of the stick compared to the other two in other sites.

 

[Cold Shiny]

I love the way Nintendo operates outside of the rules.

What, there's a controller paradigm, and they all look the same? Better make one that's completely different.

What, graphics are all that matter anymore and gameplay has no meaning? Better focus on gameplay and connect our graphics to our gameplay in a meaningful way.

What, overwhelming focus on third party games has made the xbox and playstation basically the same thing, and on top of it all, most of them suck? Better pour tons of love and hard work into exclusives designed specifically for our console and optimize them in every way we possibly can.

I love all the hate Nintendo gets, and I love that they completely ignore the criticism. Nintendo exists for me. It exists to please me, and all the whining and doomsdaying is just so much white noise.

 

[NiPah]

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

Well once upon a time before the whole [debate that will not be named.] ravished the forums and made this site a barren wasteland there were at least a couple of notable users who always made threads whinging about people whinging about Nintendo.

You were put into what's his name's place after he fell silent, elected to counter any negative Nintendo threads! But there hasn't been any recently, I've missed you.

Wait, why does Dragonbums get to be the new NDF Leader? I thought I got that.

OT: Maybe you're confusing other sites for this one? Because lately the number of Nintendo...anything articles or OP topics are at an all time low. That being said, I do agree that Nintendo tends to get the short end of the stick compared to the other two in other sites.

Ah ha! You return! No it was on this site where back when Yahtzee videos on Nintendo would garner multiple hundreds of replies and the epic back and forth between good and evils would lead to hours of good fun. I kind of miss those days, just as ruthless but let malice IMO.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think Nintendo does well in keeping its fans happy (mostly) but sucks at drawing in new clientele.

 

[SmugFrog]

So in my time here, I've seen a lot of threads decrying how much people hate Nintendo.

It seems to me The Escapist is full of people with love for Nintendo and their characters. There's a lot of fan-related defending of their favorite interests as well as quick snap judgments (OMG I bet Fallout 4 sux like the others). I don't see the hate as much and I'm happy to see you've put down the different areas where Nintendo is, in your opinion, making bad business choices. Before we go further, let's talk about that for a minute: business choices. Nintendo is a business; they're out to make money. Out of your 5 points, 4 of those are actually pretty smart from a business standpoint: Amiibos, Gimmicky console ideas, new console releases to replace the older ones (I know, you were more focused on sales though, and we'll come back to that), and of course their master treasure pot of intellectual property of characters and games.

So why do I "hate" Nintendo now? You have to understand how my relationship with Nintendo went over the years.

Growing up I was a Nintendo fanboy. I was about 6 when the Nintendo Entertainment System came out and got my console the next year. My grandmother went all out with the biggest version of it: the robot and the lightgun. Mario, Duck Hunt, and Gyromite were my first games. I fell in love with gaming, and my grandmother fueled my habit by always keeping me supplied with games. When game rentals took off, I would visit our local video stores and check out whatever games were available. this was much more expensive than Gamefly, as for about $3-5 you would only get to keep the game for a day or two. That's not much time to play a game, so it wasn't uncommon to spend around $10 on weekend rentals instead of purchasing the game. During my NES days, I relied on Nintendo Power for game information; but I quickly realized that Nintendo Power was a biased magazine that wasn't going to poorly review Nintendo's own games (or games of their 3rd party publishers, of which, there were many).

When the Super Nintendo came out, my grandmother got that system for me too. She also purchased a lot of games for me, but by that time I was starting to save my allowance and pick out the games that were coming out. My friend had gone with the Genesis (and eventual Sega CD and 32X), so I got to experience both sides of gaming with frequent visits to each other's houses.

Sometime in the time period of the SNES and into the Nintendo 64 I became jealous of my friend with a Playstation. So many innovative games were coming out, and Nintendo was becoming increasingly paranoid about edgy or mature games.

The Nintendo 64 was amazing when it came out. My friends and I rented the console and Mario 64 and were blown away by this new 3D gameplay. At this point my family couldn't really afford big gifts anymore - My grandmother had spent a lot of money getting me a computer, and I was starting to get into PC gaming at that time as well (Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, original Xcom, Command & Conquer). When Goldeneye came out, I rented a console and loved it. I then decided to purchase my N64. Still, I couldn't afford a lot of games a the ones I played for the N64 I mostly rented from Blockbuster. I never did purchase many games for my N64 - Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, Ocarina of Time, Perfect Dark, Starfox 64. It was also shortly after this purchase that I moved out, started my career, and didn't have the time and money to put into my habit as I had while living with my grandmother. Over the next few years I played many N64 games, but most of them were rentals and very few were ones I wanted to purchase. I bought a new laptop and my PC gaming habit continued to grow - and that fueled my craving for games that Nintendo just wasn't interested in having.

At some point I saw a Gamecube in a store and played Super Mario Sunshine on it. It looked so childish, and the controller looked like something you'd give to a 6 year old. I would feel like I needed to hide this thing if I had any friends coming over. My next console purchase became the original Xbox - which, while not perfect, it surpassed the Gamecube's capabilities and had games that Nintendo still wasn't interested in pursuing.

They have to bring out a new competitive console fast, since the Wii-U is drowning like a sad horse. But by doing so they'll likely piss off a lot of Wii-U owners for ditching the console so quickly. I know I'm not touching the NX after getting shafted on the Wii-U like that.

That's what I feel like they did with the Gamecube. I felt the N64 had more potential (EDIT: Not more potential but had not reached it's full potential - for what it was capable of anyway - but maybe that's just my remembrance of the screenshots and such for the drive add on for the SNES that went on to become the Playstation). In the end they were making a dash to catch up to the Playstation. I am so surprised about this "NX" thing I keep reading about, and I can't believe they're going to jump consoles again.

I almost want to start another topic with a poll that inquires as to how each person acquired their console and games. I believe that when they're acquired as a gift, or if a person has enough money to select multiple consoles, they're more likely to be a Nintendo fan. I would love to play the latest Zelda, Mario, non-existent Metroid game - but I don't have the time or money to do so. I think it's easier to overlook any flaws in your purchase if it's a gift. That doesn't exclude those that purchased from overlooking the flaws in their console (Post-purchase rationalization, which I'll go into more in a bit). However, I believe if you haven't had to work for your own console and games, or have had to carefully pick and select which console and games you're going to be able to play. Of course, in this age a service like Gamefly helps with this as you can play through an entire console's library at your leisure without having to make the purchase.

I bring up these issues, not because I hate Nintendo, but because I want Nintendo to be better...So I doubt they are going anywhere. They likely are here for a long time, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss legitimate issues. Especially for a company like Nintendo that basically represents the gaming industry in the minds of so many people.

I think a lot of people, especially the fanboys, are quick to rush to Nintendo's defense in any criticism. This doesn't just happen with Nintendo, but any game system. I've seen even poorly reviewed games get a high user score and the buyer tries to defend the "good points" about the game.

Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias.

Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgment. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.

We're not trying to just hate on Nintendo - I think we're wanting to see Nintendo become what they originally were, which was the king of the home console market. I would love to see that magic return, but it seems at this point everything Nintendo does is trying to play catch-up to the other console manufacturers. I believe as it is now, people enjoy their Nintendo consoles in their youth - but if they're a hardcore gamer that spends a lot of time gaming, and/or as they get older, they realize that Nintendo just isn't scratching that itch anymore.

Where's Nintendo's Last of Us that touches so many people due to it's story?

It's called Legend of Zelda: Majorra's Mask. Everybody knows that moon. Most people who've played it remember the atmosphere that the moon so perfectly symbolises. In five years we'll have to see if most people remember Joel and Ellie.

That's one of the Zelda games I've never played, just couldn't afford it at the time. That moon went on to become a meme and yes, almost everyone recognizes it, though these days they may not know where it came from as the game came out 15 years and many systems ago. So I could make the same argument about Bomberman, Gordon Freeman, Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, or even Cats from the All Your Base meme (which, I'm pretty sure, 99% of us never even played that game). Salty's point is nothing Nintendo related has resonated with gamers recently, and given their well-known intellectual properties that's really a damn shame.

New consoles get announced around halfway through the life of the old one. It amuses me that a continuation of a trend going back 20 years at least makes people panic now...

I think perhaps it's not just that a new console is getting announced, but that so many people haven't even purchased or played a Wii U yet. The newest Zelda game that is coming makes me want it - but I'm not going to do another N64 move (as I wrote about earlier) where I purchase one console for about 3 good games (does the Wii U even have that?).

I love the way Nintendo operates outside of the rules.

What, there's a controller paradigm, and they all look the same? Better make one that's completely different.

Different isn't always better! The N64 had a great idea to include analog control; but it was poorly implemented. The Wii was a great idea for motion control games; but it wasn't what it could have been hence the upgrades to the controller. Microsoft and Sony stupidly followed suit because the Wii was selling so well - and where are those epic motion controlled games now? Nintendo is all about little purchases and addons for their games. Nintendo is capable of so much more and you know it. They're behind the times and they're trying to catch up. I'd really like to see them just swear off a new console for about 10 years or more and come back as a powerhouse; unfortunately, they won't do it because it would mean loss of income. Any income is better than none; so they develop new consoles and rehash games to keep making that money. People are quick to cry foul when movie remakes are created or it goes into a dozen sequels, but when Nintendo does it, it's ok.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

All this "hate" is very much justified and very well articulated, my regards to the OP. But the bottomline for an ordinary game player like myself (or what do you call them? gamers?) is that Nintendo offers a variety of unique high quality games that cannot be played elsewhere. So while Wii U might not be the best choice as your only console, it is definitely an interesting machine to complement a mainstream console or a gaming PC. And while both Xbox and PS4 are crucial in the current videogaming environment, mostly by keeping each other's anti-consumer tendencies in check, Nintendo's Wii U, for all its ills, is just as important, by virtue of being different yet still relevant.

Pretty much this^

Also I absolutely LOVE this point for the comedy factor.....


I'm going to list global console sales for each Nintendo console, excluding handhelds, in chronological order[1]. Tell me if you notice a pattern.

NES: 61.91 Million
SNES: 49.1 Million
N64: 32.93 Million
GameCube: 21.74 Million[2]
Wii: 101.17 Million
Wii U: 10.14 Million

Ignoring the Wii, each console has sold almost 10 million less than it's predecessor.

.....lol. Never I seen a finer example of seeing what you choose to see.

"If you ignore a very relevant part of the pattern there's actually another pattern there. Check out these facts and, if you manipulate them by ignoring chosen ones, they prove a point which you want to be proven".

Lol, genius.

I like Nintendo and think they are the best game developers ever, because if you look at all the great games they've made over the years and ignore all the bad ones they've only ever made great games.

 

[COMaestro]

Also I absolutely LOVE this point for the comedy factor.....


I'm going to list global console sales for each Nintendo console, excluding handhelds, in chronological order[1]. Tell me if you notice a pattern.

NES: 61.91 Million
SNES: 49.1 Million
N64: 32.93 Million
GameCube: 21.74 Million[2]
Wii: 101.17 Million
Wii U: 10.14 Million

Ignoring the Wii, each console has sold almost 10 million less than it's predecessor.

.....lol. Never I seen a finer example of seeing what you choose to see.

"If you ignore a very relevant part of the pattern there's actually another pattern there. Check out these facts and, if you manipulate them by ignoring chosen ones, they prove a point which you want to be proven".

Lol, genius.

I like Nintendo and think they are the best game developers ever, because if you look at all the great games they've made over the years and ignore all the bad ones they've only ever made great games.

A single anomaly does not rule out the overall pattern. It'd be like claiming a game company is failing when each of their seven released games sells more than the previous one, except for the fourth game, which sold less then all the others.

The Wii was a crazy success that no one predicted, not even Nintendo. It made them complacent and they expected the WiiU to sell just as well on the name alone, but at that point the craze had ended and the huge casual base that had made the Wii an explosive success wasn't buying.

I will admit the OP should have mentioned Nintendo's handheld division, as it is practically a monopoly and is probably raking in the money for them, but that wouldn't be in line with the intended "Nintendo hate" thread, would it?

 

[Buckets]

I avoided the Wii U for ages, but I finally succumbed and bought one (mainly due to Pikmin 3 and Splatoon)-
Amiibos are kinda useless unless you get a compatible game, but some are kinda cute. (I bought Pacman)
I like the fact I can play some of the games on the gamepad screen, especially if there is something else on TV.
The games are still very sparse, and I ain't a fan of the many iterations of Mario.
I will buy the new Zelda and probably Starfox, shame they seem to have ignored Pilotwings on the latest gadgets.
It is Wii compatible but unfortunately not Gamecube, which would have been nice.
Nintendo produce very polished and tidy games, so no crazy patch days, that said they do release them verrryyyy slowly.
Overall I am pretty happy with it, however I am more likely to buy a PS4 or XBox One game as they generally appear a lot faster.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Pretty much this^

Also I absolutely LOVE this point for the comedy factor.....


I'm going to list global console sales for each Nintendo console, excluding handhelds, in chronological order[1]. Tell me if you notice a pattern.

NES: 61.91 Million
SNES: 49.1 Million
N64: 32.93 Million
GameCube: 21.74 Million[2]
Wii: 101.17 Million
Wii U: 10.14 Million

Ignoring the Wii, each console has sold almost 10 million less than it's predecessor.

.....lol. Never I seen a finer example of seeing what you choose to see.

"If you ignore a very relevant part of the pattern there's actually another pattern there. Check out these facts and, if you manipulate them by ignoring chosen ones, they prove a point which you want to be proven".

Lol, genius.

I like Nintendo and think they are the best game developers ever, because if you look at all the great games they've made over the years and ignore all the bad ones they've only ever made great games.

I just find it funny how threads like these crop up on the eve of a major Nintendo release hitting store shelves (Super Mario Maker in this case). Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't always so repetitive. Considering how Nintendo isn't going anywhere I don't see what there is to discuss, especially since how they're run is none of our business.

 

[Something Amyss]

.....lol. Never I seen a finer example of seeing what you choose to see.

What, you mean not choosing to ignore a downward trend in favour of a single data point? That's the finest example of seeing what you choose to see?

"If you ignore a very relevant part of the pattern there's actually another pattern there. Check out these facts and, if you manipulate them by ignoring chosen ones, they prove a point which you want to be proven".

Insisting a single data point is relevant doesn't make it true. Weighting the relevance of one console against the downtrend is selection bias in action. Hell, if we include the Wii, then the Wii U is doing even worse, selling like a fifth of the units its predecessor did (and since most were bought early on, relative comparisons only help a little).

I just find it funny how threads like these crop up on the eve of a major Nintendo release hitting store shelves (Super Mario Maker in this case). Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't always so repetitive. Considering how Nintendo isn't going anywhere I don't see what there is to discuss, especially since how they're run is none of our business.

If you don't want to discuss things like this, by all means don't. But wat's the point in commenting to say that we shouldn't?

 

[Saltyk]

It seems to me The Escapist is full of people with love for Nintendo and their characters. There's a lot of fan-related defending of their favorite interests as well as quick snap judgments (OMG I bet Fallout 4 sux like the others). I don't see the hate as much and I'm happy to see you've put down the different areas where Nintendo is, in your opinion, making bad business choices. Before we go further, let's talk about that for a minute: business choices. Nintendo is a business; they're out to make money. Out of your 5 points, 4 of those are actually pretty smart from a business standpoint: Amiibos, Gimmicky console ideas, new console releases to replace the older ones (I know, you were more focused on sales though, and we'll come back to that), and of course their master treasure pot of intellectual property of characters and games.

Thanks. While the idea was to make a "Nintendo Hate" thread originally, I still tried to give actual points. I will fully admit that the Character/Game section is by far my weakest argument. Half of that is that by the time I got there I had already been working on this post for quite a while so it wasn't my strongest writing.

I want to clarify that my biggest issue with Amiibo is the forced rarity. I brought up my collector friend to illustrate how much effort can go into getting one of these rare Ammibos. If they weren't so hard to get a lot of my problem with Amiibos would evaporate. As it is, that just exasperates the other problems. I still dislike having some content locked on the disc without buying an Ammibo, though. I don't see why Nintendo should get a free pass when EA and Capcom don't.

So why do I "hate" Nintendo now? You have to understand how my relationship with Nintendo went over the years.

Growing up I was a Nintendo fanboy. I was about 6 when the Nintendo Entertainment System came out and got my console the next year. My grandmother went all out with the biggest version of it: the robot and the lightgun. Mario, Duck Hunt, and Gyromite were my first games. I fell in love with gaming, and my grandmother fueled my habit by always keeping me supplied with games. When game rentals took off, I would visit our local video stores and check out whatever games were available. this was much more expensive than Gamefly, as for about $3-5 you would only get to keep the game for a day or two. That's not much time to play a game, so it wasn't uncommon to spend around $10 on weekend rentals instead of purchasing the game. During my NES days, I relied on Nintendo Power for game information; but I quickly realized that Nintendo Power was a biased magazine that wasn't going to poorly review Nintendo's own games (or games of their 3rd party publishers, of which, there were many).

When the Super Nintendo came out, my grandmother got that system for me too. She also purchased a lot of games for me, but by that time I was starting to save my allowance and pick out the games that were coming out. My friend had gone with the Genesis (and eventual Sega CD and 32X), so I got to experience both sides of gaming with frequent visits to each other's houses.

Sometime in the time period of the SNES and into the Nintendo 64 I became jealous of my friend with a Playstation. So many innovative games were coming out, and Nintendo was becoming increasingly paranoid about edgy or mature games.

The Nintendo 64 was amazing when it came out. My friends and I rented the console and Mario 64 and were blown away by this new 3D gameplay. At this point my family couldn't really afford big gifts anymore - My grandmother had spent a lot of money getting me a computer, and I was starting to get into PC gaming at that time as well (Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, original Xcom, Command & Conquer). When Goldeneye came out, I rented a console and loved it. I then decided to purchase my N64. Still, I couldn't afford a lot of games a the ones I played for the N64 I mostly rented from Blockbuster. I never did purchase many games for my N64 - Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie, Ocarina of Time, Perfect Dark, Starfox 64. It was also shortly after this purchase that I moved out, started my career, and didn't have the time and money to put into my habit as I had while living with my grandmother. Over the next few years I played many N64 games, but most of them were rentals and very few were ones I wanted to purchase. I bought a new laptop and my PC gaming habit continued to grow - and that fueled my craving for games that Nintendo just wasn't interested in having.

At some point I saw a Gamecube in a store and played Super Mario Sunshine on it. It looked so childish, and the controller looked like something you'd give to a 6 year old. I would feel like I needed to hide this thing if I had any friends coming over. My next console purchase became the original Xbox - which, while not perfect, it surpassed the Gamecube's capabilities and had games that Nintendo still wasn't interested in pursuing.

Thank you for sharing the experience. I suspect you are not alone in your feelings.

I think the root of the problems you saw lies in Nintendo's philosophy. Nintendo is first and foremost about fun. Now, I don't think that is a bad thing, in and of itself. I like "fun" video games. I doubt anyone would disagree. But the problem is that Nintendo still seems to see video games as toys at the end of the day. And from that perspective, it's easy to see why Nintendo seems to avoid more mature games and why their consoles tend to lack other features, like being able to play DVDs. It's why they have been lagging behind their competitors. To Nintendo, we're playing with toys and that's all it has to be. But their competitors offered more than mere toys and that's why they have dominated the console market.

They have to bring out a new competitive console fast, since the Wii-U is drowning like a sad horse. But by doing so they'll likely piss off a lot of Wii-U owners for ditching the console so quickly. I know I'm not touching the NX after getting shafted on the Wii-U like that.

That's what I feel like they did with the Gamecube. I felt the N64 had more potential, but in the end they were making a dash to catch up to the Playstation. I am so surprised about this "NX" thing I keep reading about, and I can't believe they're going to jump consoles again.

Honestly, I'm seeing parallels between the NX and Sega's last few consoles. Sega tried to extend the life of the Genesis with the Sega CD and 32X, but neither seemed to take, though I think Sega didn't really make much effort to support either one. Then, they released the Saturn. That's four different systems in seven years. Two that were add-ons to a previous system.

The Wii U isn't quite three years old and they're already talking about replacing it. Speculation and rumors have the NX coming out next year.

I almost want to start another topic with a poll that inquires as to how each person acquired their console and games. I believe that when they're acquired as a gift, or if a person has enough money to select multiple consoles, they're more likely to be a Nintendo fan. I would love to play the latest Zelda, Mario, non-existent Metroid game - but I don't have the time or money to do so. I think it's easier to overlook any flaws in your purchase if it's a gift. That doesn't exclude those that purchased from overlooking the flaws in their console (Post-purchase rationalization, which I'll go into more in a bit). However, I believe if you haven't had to work for your own console and games, or have had to carefully pick and select which console and games you're going to be able to play. Of course, in this age a service like Gamefly helps with this as you can play through an entire console's library at your leisure without having to make the purchase.

A fair theory. There is probably some truth in it. Also, I suspect that six year olds playing a new game for the first time wouldn't know if a game wasn't very good. They don't have the experience to say that the game is poorly programmed or badly designed.

I bring up these issues, not because I hate Nintendo, but because I want Nintendo to be better...So I doubt they are going anywhere. They likely are here for a long time, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss legitimate issues. Especially for a company like Nintendo that basically represents the gaming industry in the minds of so many people.

I think a lot of people, especially the fanboys, are quick to rush to Nintendo's defense in any criticism. This doesn't just happen with Nintendo, but any game system. I've seen even poorly reviewed games get a high user score and the buyer tries to defend the "good points" about the game.

True. However, I see far more Nintendo fans make annoying threads complaining about nonexistent "Nintendo hate" threads. Earlier in this thread someone asked if I ever looked at IGN. What does IGN have to do with the Escapist? Might as well make a thread complaining about racist posts here and rationalize it by pointing out Stormfront posts.

Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias.

Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgment. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.

A very good point. Like many things, the internet probably only makes this more apparent.

We're not trying to just hate on Nintendo - I think we're wanting to see Nintendo become what they originally were, which was the king of the home console market. I would love to see that magic return, but it seems at this point everything Nintendo does is trying to play catch-up to the other console manufacturers. I believe as it is now, people enjoy their Nintendo consoles in their youth - but if they're a hardcore gamer that spends a lot of time gaming, and/or as they get older, they realize that Nintendo just isn't scratching that itch anymore.

Where's Nintendo's Last of Us that touches so many people due to it's story?

It's called Legend of Zelda: Majorra's Mask. Everybody knows that moon. Most people who've played it remember the atmosphere that the moon so perfectly symbolises. In five years we'll have to see if most people remember Joel and Ellie.

That's one of the Zelda games I've never played, just couldn't afford it at the time. That moon went on to become a meme and yes, almost everyone recognizes it, though these days they may not know where it came from as the game came out 15 years and many systems ago. So I could make the same argument about Bomberman, Gordon Freeman, Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, or even Cats from the All Your Base meme (which, I'm pretty sure, 99% of us never even played that game). Salty's point is nothing Nintendo related has resonated with gamers recently, and given their well-known intellectual properties that's really a damn shame.

You get it.

I think Nintendo does well in keeping its fans happy (mostly) but sucks at drawing in new clientele.

A fair point. However, the point of noting the console sales numbers is to point out that they are losing more and more consoles sales each generation. The quality of Nintendo's games is rarely in question, especially by Nintendo fans. However, regardless of the quality of your product, if it's not selling, you won't stay in business.

Also I absolutely LOVE this point for the comedy factor.....


I'm going to list global console sales for each Nintendo console, excluding handhelds, in chronological order[1]. Tell me if you notice a pattern.

NES: 61.91 Million
SNES: 49.1 Million
N64: 32.93 Million
GameCube: 21.74 Million[2]
Wii: 101.17 Million
Wii U: 10.14 Million

Ignoring the Wii, each console has sold almost 10 million less than it's predecessor.

.....lol. Never I seen a finer example of seeing what you choose to see.

"If you ignore a very relevant part of the pattern there's actually another pattern there. Check out these facts and, if you manipulate them by ignoring chosen ones, they prove a point which you want to be proven".

Lol, genius.

I like Nintendo and think they are the best game developers ever, because if you look at all the great games they've made over the years and ignore all the bad ones they've only ever made great games.

Wow. I think I'm speechless.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and explain the point of the data I posted. Each Nintendo console sold considerably less than the previous generation. The Gamecube sold roughly a third of the systems that the NES did. There's an obvious trend that does not favor Nintendo in the long run, if we look at the NES to the GameCube.

The Wii was an anomaly, and I even offered a theory as to why it sold so well. The Wii U looks like it will be doing well to outsell the GameCube at this rate, and seems to be inline with the unfortunate trend. This is especially bad as both competitors overtook it and it had a year advantage. At this point, handhelds may be the only thing keeping Nintendo relevant in truth.

Be honest. Did you even read the post? Or did you latch on to some "intellectual dishonesty" and decide that one thing somehow invalidated any point I might have had?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think Nintendo does well in keeping its fans happy (mostly) but sucks at drawing in new clientele.

A fair point. However, the point of noting the console sales numbers is to point out that they are losing more and more consoles sales each generation. The quality of Nintendo's games is rarely in question, especially by Nintendo fans. However, regardless of the quality of your product, if it's not selling, you won't stay in business.

Well quite, I belive it's their worst-selling console, and Sony overtook its sales by the double in half the amount of time. They just didn't seem to bother that much in publicizing it. For a while nobody was sure if it was supposed to be a handheld or a home console, since their publicity focused on the controller rather than the console, and the controller has a screen in it, so... I don't think the name helped much either. Wii U sounds like an add-on, not the natural continuation of a produce called "Wii".

 

[xaszatm]

This is why I (and it seems a lot of people) stopped buying Sega consoles. I mean, one console probably won't doom them, but who knows if it stops here? Hell, Nintendo's already kind of pulled a Sega with the New 3DS. Rather than just being one of their usual 80 hardware revisions, it's a handheld with titles that will be exclusive to it. And unless one of them is a core Pokémon title, I'll pass.

The problem as I see it, however, is that the console won't necessarily be competitive. There are rumours it'll be close to parity with the Xbone and PS4, but tech specs didn't save the GameCube.

Eh, the new 3DS isn't entirely a new concept. The DS also had the DSi with exclusive games on it as well. Granted the DSi exclusive games weren't as impressive as the new 3DS's exclusives but Nintendo has done something like this before. Also, for Nintendo to truly pull a Sega they need to be just flailing in debt and they really haven't come close to that.

Wow. I think I'm speechless.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and explain the point of the data I posted. Each Nintendo console sold considerably less than the previous generation. The Gamecube sold roughly a third of the systems that the NES did. There's an obvious trend that does not favor Nintendo in the long run, if we look at the NES to the GameCube.

The Wii was an anomaly, and I even offered a theory as to why it sold so well. The Wii U looks like it will be doing well to outsell the GameCube at this rate, and seems to be inline with the unfortunate trend. This is especially bad as both competitors overtook it and it had a year advantage. At this point, handhelds may be the only thing keeping Nintendo relevant in truth.

Be honest. Did you even read the post? Or did you latch on to some "intellectual dishonesty" and decide that one thing somehow invalidated any point I might have had?

While I do agree that this downward trend is a bad thing (less consoles means less mindshare), I feel like this point is muted (though certainly not extinguished) by the fact that the farther you move down the scale, the more consoles there are competing in the video game space. And honestly, this downward spiral is true for most console manufactures. Sony has a downward trend since PS2 (PS2 sold 155 million, PS3 sold 80 million) and forget about their handhelds. Microsft only has an upward scale because the original Xbox was a failure by any metric and it doesn't look like the Xbox One will be surpassing the Xbox 360's final numbers (though it is too early to tell with 100% certainty but if Patcher gets paid to spout nonsense like this...). I could see the PS4 outselling the PS3 but only due to the opening market of China netting in large sales.

I also feel like profit is more important than mindshare and consoles sold and if we compare that category, Nintendo is the king still hands down.

Nintendo has had a stellar record in its profit sections, only having to post a loss during the 2-year stint of the 3DS and Wii U troubles and even then they turned things around. Sony and Microsoft have had abysmal profit sales wise and only Sony is currently finally seeing profit again. It's mainly because of this why I don't see Nintendo going anywhere anytime soon.

Where are these threads? Where is all this Nintendoom people are talking about? No one is saying this . At least no one is making threads about it on the escapist. You are fighting a nonexistent war.

Well once upon a time before the whole [debate that will not be named.] ravished the forums and made this site a barren wasteland there were at least a couple of notable users who always made threads whinging about people whinging about Nintendo.

You were put into what's his name's place after he fell silent, elected to counter any negative Nintendo threads! But there hasn't been any recently, I've missed you.

Wait, why does Dragonbums get to be the new NDF Leader? I thought I got that.

OT: Maybe you're confusing other sites for this one? Because lately the number of Nintendo...anything articles or OP topics are at an all time low. That being said, I do agree that Nintendo tends to get the short end of the stick compared to the other two in other sites.

Ah ha! You return! No it was on this site where back when Yahtzee videos on Nintendo would garner multiple hundreds of replies and the epic back and forth between good and evils would lead to hours of good fun. I kind of miss those days, just as ruthless but let malice IMO.

I think you are confusing me for j-e-f-f-e-r-s who was the guy who did that. I kind of dipped into that myself when he got banned but I don't think I ever did it that prominently.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Eh, the new 3DS isn't entirely a new concept. The DS also had the DSi with exclusive games on it as well. Granted the DSi exclusive games weren't as impressive as the new 3DS's exclusives but Nintendo has done something like this before. Also, for Nintendo to truly pull a Sega they need to be just flailing in debt and they really haven't come close to that.

And that's why I've said time and time again that trying to do the SEGA comparison or acting like Nintendo is badly managed is pathetically easy to refute. With the former, Nintendo has zero debt. None. Most companies are lucky for their debts to not equal half their net worth. Even with weaker performing systems they still ended up with a profit when all was said and done. SEGA, meanwhile, was off of a slew of unprofitable hardware with the Game Gear, SEGA CD, 32X, and Sega Saturn. As for the latter, I think we can just go by the fact that Nintendo is consistently profitable, has next to zero layoffs (while we can't help but hear about layoffs left and right from other companies), and has never had a history of being a bad place to work for.

And that's what KILLS me about threads like this. When all is said and done, Nintendo is without a doubt the most stable company in the industry. And yet people never shut up about how they need to change or else. That is BIZARRO WORLD logic.

 

[SmugFrog]

A single anomaly does not rule out the overall pattern. It'd be like claiming a game company is failing when each of their seven released games sells more than the previous one, except for the fourth game, which sold less then all the others.

This! A thousand times over for those of you that act like Nintendo is infallible. This isn't what I would want to see if I'm running the company. I'm sure the Wii was a much celebrated change, and there was much patting themselves on the back over the sales of the Wii - however, a one off doesn't set a trend, and instead as many have pointed out the trend is downward. So I ask you this: wouldn't you want to fix that downward trend, and instead focus on a continual improvement?

And that's what KILLS me about threads like this. When all is said and done, Nintendo is without a doubt the most stable company in the industry. And yet people never shut up about how they need to change or else. That is BIZARRO WORLD logic.

My argument was never that they're going anywhere; it's more about how I came to an eventual dissatisfaction with Nintendo mixed with my nostalgia and wish that I could play those games again that I enjoyed so much as a child. Nintendo isn't going to go away, and that's a good thing for the industry overall. However, fool me once Nintendo... Actually, fool me twice because I bought a Wii for my kids to play on - and while they use it, they probably play on it about as much as the PC and the Xbox 360. 2 of them even have a Nintendo DS, but we don't have many games on it because they just don't show the interest. Nintendo knows how to market to children as they all know who Mario and Pikachu are.

The Xbox. The original Xbox. The reason I chose that console is because of the hardware advances made with it over the others. It was the first mainstream console to include a hard drive and enabled gamers to connect to each other via the internet. Sure, others had similar methods but Xbox Live was a driver that made other manufacturers race to catch up. Sony caught on to that. Nintendo has historically lately shunned technological upgrades that others use in favor of their gimmicks. They long shunned the disc based system. They've shunned the hard drive. They've shunned an easy way to connect players to each other. I laughed while reading so many people's frustration with friend codes as Nintendo struggled to find a way to connect players as well as protect the children. Lately Nintendo is always a few steps behind, and it's just sad to see. Sure, they still have their wonderful games and big-name recognizable IP's - but it's always the "what-could-have-been". I'd much rather have a console with 20 games I greatly enjoy playing rather than a console with 3-4 really good games.

IF you don't read anything else that I've written, let me as you this:

Which would you rather have: A console with only Nintendo games on it, or a console that has Nintendo's recognizable games as well as Grand Theft Auto 5, Metal Gear Solid V, Indie game support (Minecraft, Terraria), Free games, etc? To me the answer to that is just common sense - I'd love to have Nintendo's library and also have the great games other developers are creating. In order for that to be you need one of these things to happen:

1) Nintendo completely fails, stops making consoles and takes their ball (their games) and goes home, never to release another in their series. The odds of this are infinity to 1.

2) Nintendo pulls a Sega, bowing out of the console market but making games. I've thought a few times this might happen, and sometimes I would like to see it happen; but it's very unlikely.

3) Nintendo designs a new console. This is happening now, and it's going to happen again and again and again. The big question is if Nintendo design a console that matches the current or is actually next generation (beyond XB1/PS4). Will Nintendo take the lesson learned from other consoles into account, or will they continue to do their own vision? Given their history of holding back on hardware and wanting to keep their price point down, I think we can safely rule out any type of next-gen movement on their part short of some type of new gimmick. Now, don't rule out the gimmick - as the hard drive and internet access stuff I mentioned earlier was, in its time, a "gimmick". If Nintendo can manage to capture what gamers want, whether it's the casual or hardcore market, they'll repeat the success of the Wii.

I like the fact I can play some of the games on the gamepad screen, especially if there is something else on TV.

That's the kind of innovation Nintendo needs to be doing - but once again, they're not going far enough with it for fear of how much people will have access to. I love that I can take my Xbox One and my Laptop, and play games on my laptop from my Xbox One. Or right click a video file on my computer and play it to my Xbox One. Watching movies and interacting with my television and games continues to get easier, and that's how it should be in the family room.

Considering how Nintendo isn't going anywhere I don't see what there is to discuss, especially since how they're run is none of our business.

As I write this there are 3 guys standing close to my desk talking about baseball statistics. What player is doing what, what such-in-such player is doing wrong, what this team could do better - on and on and on. I have no interest in sports. Why do people discuss such things? Because it is interesting to them! Can we agree that video games are a shared interest between us? This is a forum, correct? Then I believe we are in the correct place to discuss such things. Do not let your cognitive bias (what I wrote of earlier) keep you from discussing the pros and cons of Nintendo:

<spoiler=Cognitive Bias - Click Me>Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias.

Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgment. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.

 

[PinkiePyro]

given the announcement of pokemon go which is a PHONE GAME i think they have turned a corner

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Nintendo is, as has always been, a company that doesn't seem to want to jump on bandwagons. They do their own thing, and yes rehash a lot of their success to which I say they DO keep succeeding with more than failing. They're first and foremost a Japanese gaming development company, and what may drive them more, despite the US and western markets being a sizable profit location, is the demand and love by the Japanese people.
I commend Ninty for keeping their roots, and not trying to play by way of copying the "more successful" consoles. Why? ATARI is gone, SEGA is gone as developers, Sony is only recently profitable and as a whole has spent a LOT of money attempting to standardize a media format under their patent and only recently succeeding with BluRay, much thanks to the PS3 for that.
Microsoft is the most recent challenger and while having had missteps is doing OK.
Nintendo has had a LOT of innovations succeed, the Game Boy (which pioneered the way for the DS and its iterations) is a prime example. Consoles of the non-mobile variety will never rival the Wii, but they're far from sinking the company. I believe Nintendo is playing a LONG game for itself and doesn't exactly care about being in 3rd place or first place, they want to be there at the finish line with a lot of grave markers on the side of that long race. They've succeeded in being around since before I was born, and I still have Nintendo products in my ownership.... that says a LOT about them in my view. And I'd like for them to keep their identity and not try to play the console wars games any more than they already have.
Sony and Microsoft are duking it out, Nintendo may be quite content to sit it out and watch the other two exhaust themselves.