LGBT in Video Games

[sinterklaas]

No problems at all. It doesn't harm, thus is not wrong.

I don't like public displays of gay men though, but that is just personal taste and I would never discriminate.

I would be against adding LGBT in video games for the sole purpose of adding LGBT. It needs to serve a purpose in the story (just like everything else).

 

[Anthony Abney]

Transsexuals have a mental disorder. I've never been sure why they were lumped in with the gay and lesbian community, but if you want to put a knife to your penis then you are fighting your natural biology.

If you have to have a mental disorder to fight your natural biology, then anyone who's ever taken medicine or gotten a vaccine is insane and doctors should be put in an asylum. Also, I think they got thrown in with gays and lesbians because of the idea that a man would get a sex change so he could be with other men and still be accepted by society as a straight person.

OT: Personally, I'm ok with the LBGT community and really don't understand why anyone wouldn't be. I've heard some people say that they're just afraid of being "converted", but if you're really afraid of that, then you're probably already gay deep down and are really afraid that they'll bring it up to the surface and force you to come to terms with it.

oh and, hetero male, if you need that information

 

[chaosyoshimage]

The reason why the gaming community's views are kinda messed up on this issues because they really don't want to deal with it. Overall I kinda hate the whole date-sim bullshit that's tacked on to extend storyline. This goes for all sexual perseverance, relationship roles feel like another mission instead of you really growing to care about a character. It's basically spoil them until they're willing to fuck you.

If you're happy with that kind of relationship building in a games that's fine. Yet we all know they can go way past the whole date-sim logic that's currently set up. If the LGBT stuff is gonna get done right the hetero is gonna have to get done right first. To me they're gonna have to get past the sex as a goal and work on dependable, romantic relationships. When you're building that relationship the end product should in my eyes be a very close friend instead of just a sexual conquest.

True, but that's kind of the problem with games, it's all about the accomplishment instead of the road to get there. To be honest, I actually have grown to care about the characters I romanced, and didn't really seek out a romance with them just to bed them or whatever. I really related to Anders (From Dragon Age II), for example, and because of that, I genuinely cared about the character and could see myself in a relationship with that person.

 

[LiquidGrape]

To me they're gonna have to get past the sex as a goal and work on dependable, romantic relationships. When you're building that relationship the end product should in my eyes be a very close friend instead of just a sexual conquest.

Dragon Age 2 already did that, I would argue.
Sadly, it was accused of being "unrealistic" because four love interests were bisexual.
Apparently, some people live in closets. No pun intended.

This subculture suffers from a prevalent biphobia even more than homophobia, I'd say. The mere possibility of a fictional character even possibly being capable of finding people of either sex attractive seems to utterly terrify these individuals.

Not reason to have it, and no reason to not have it.

It doesn't really add much, but it doesn't take away much either. It would be like if red-haired persons complained that there were too few redheads in gaming, sure it wouldn't harm, but is it really that important to you?

Personally, I'd say that equal representation of sexuality is a bit more substantial an issue than equal representation in hair pigmentation.

 

[masteroftheclaw]

As for the people who prefer to keep their sex organs purely because they're happy with them (even if they could perfectly recreate sex organs to be 100% functional and real), I can't relate to that at all, but I'm not going to stop someone from doing what they like. I still find it very confusing though to enjoy a sex role your brain is supposedly not compatible with... I don't know, I just can't really comprehend it. I still accept it though. Although, in the grand scheme of things, this particular group is a minority, so I would say that that sort of thing probably shouldn't be heavily introduced into the media until people are more comfortable with the basic concept of transsexuality to begin with.

Just popping in to give my two cents on this part of your statement. You seem to be pretty darn accepting of trans stuff as is and it's perfectly normal to be unable to relate to some parts of it (or understand at all). As is, people who identify themselves as trans are probably less common than those calling themselves LGB.

Anyways, in regards to surgeries, there's a lot of reasons someone might choose not to have one on their genitals. First off, doesn't that seem like a really scary thing to do? Even if you are full of loathing over these parts surgeries are dangerous and some people might not be willing to risk it. Then of course is the fact that this stuff costs a load of money. Trans people might have enough money for hormone therapy, but not necessarily to get a pricey surgery/revisions. Also, while transwomen are able to get really fabulous surgical options, transmen are presented with much less than "100% functional and real" options. For some these options might be perfect, but for many others it is just not "good enough". Then, finally, there are people who are happy with their current set of genitals even if they are not common for the gender they identify with. Different strokes for different folks.


In regards to the original post, I am quite fond of the LGBT(QIA) community. I find there are some annoying people within it but those feelings of annoyance stem from the people, not their identification. In general though I feel more comfortable around LGBT people because they generally are a bit more accepting of "otherness" in my experience.

 

[KelsieKatt]

Just popping in to give my two cents on this part of your statement. You seem to be pretty darn accepting of trans stuff as is and it's perfectly normal to be unable to relate to some parts of it (or understand at all). As is, people who identify themselves as trans are probably less common than those calling themselves LGB.

Anyways, in regards to surgeries, there's a lot of reasons someone might choose not to have one on their genitals. First off, doesn't that seem like a really scary thing to do? Even if you are full of loathing over these parts surgeries are dangerous and some people might not be willing to risk it. Then of course is the fact that this stuff costs a load of money. Trans people might have enough money for hormone therapy, but not necessarily to get a pricey surgery/revisions. Also, while transwomen are able to get really fabulous surgical options, transmen are presented with much less than "100% functional and real" options. For some these options might be perfect, but for many others it is just not "good enough".

Oh, no, no. I understand that concept. I can certainly understand money and other things coming into play etc, I've seen some of the prices for the surgical aspect and it's equivalent to buying a new car and you'd be lucky to even get insurance to cover it. And yeah, the surgical options for FTM are pretty poor from what I've seen. As it is, sex itself isn't exactly something that happens all the time, so social role by default would be a lot more important anyway.

I more mean in the sense of if in a hypothetical situation, if people had easy access to a perfect method of creating ideal sexual organs which could function and look exactly like the real thing and even be capable of child birth, semen production, etc.

Basically it's just the small minority of transgendered people who according to them just straight up like the sex organs they were born with, even though they went through the effort of transitioning. I don't really get why someone would enjoy that. It's not exactly super common, but I have heard of it and met people who say they identify with this concept, and I don't really get it at all.

Then, finally, there are people who are happy with their current set of genitals even if they are not common for the gender they identify with. Different strokes for different folks.

This is generally the part that confuses me. The rest of it I can kind of understand.

 

[go-10]

hetero here I don't mind LGBT in games or any other media some of my bros (2 to be precise) are gay, but back on topic.

Based on what they've told me gays are usually represented as comedic relief or flamboyantly evil. I agree not all gays are like that, I know some NAVY Seals that are gay and I tell ya Brock Lesnar looks small next to some of these guys so not all are small feminine birds

as for lesbians well my cousin is a lesbian and she resorts to playing as a girl and making her gay but is always disappointed by the end result. She gave me the example of Dragon Age 2 when she romanced Merrill at one point Merrill says "I know we're both women but for now lets pretend this is real", another example she gave me was Persona 3 Portable, a game which focuses on social dating but yet doesn't allow you to be lesbian or gay for that matter

bisexuals are the same as lesbians I believe they are treated as just going through a phase

transsexuals... I don't think I've ever seen one outside of maybe Saints Row, and they're just comedic relief there too

My personal opinion, I don't really think diversified representation has been given. They all fall into some stereotype and are defined like that through out. Basically the LGBT community is treated as some stereotype that's either funny or psychotic, only exceptions I can think of are Hana and Rain from Fear Effect 2, Samus Aran from Metroid, and Lara Croft from Tomb Raider. I know the last 2 haven't been confirmed but I've always seem them that way and until a GAME proves me otherwise I'll keep thinking of them that way

Id argue expecting varied and deep representation for any of those communities from the youngest media form is a tall order, hell tv has only recently gotten away from painting all males as raging queens.

It'll take tike but it will happen. Expecting games to change before films or television do is just naive.

well that was just my opinion but lets be honest even heterosexuals are still being treated the same as they were back in the 90's. Heroes usually fall into one of 5 categories, I have yet to play a game where the character is defined by the actions you take beyond being good or evil. We all do bad things but none of us are really evil right?
Back on topic OT check out Fear Effect 2 is the only "different" representation of lesbians I've ever seen... and its a great game too

 

[Delsana]

Personally, it quite disturbs me that such views towards sexuality can exist.

 

[masteroftheclaw]

I more mean in the sense of if in a hypothetical situation, if people had easy access to a perfect method of creating ideal sexual organs which could function and look exactly like the real thing and even be capable of child birth, semen production, etc.

Basically it's just the small minority of transgendered people who according to them just straight up like the sex organs they were born with, even though they went through the effort of transitioning. I don't really get why someone would enjoy that. It's not exactly super common, but I have heard of it and met people who say they identify with this concept, and I don't really get it at all.

Ah, alright then. Well at least the post will be there for some people who are reading this thread who don't have your amount of knowledge .

Everyone is different, I guess, more so than we even realize by just observing. Most of the trans people I know seem pretty focused on genitalia. Of course, society as a whole seems very focused on it too. Men are often viewed as less masculine if they've got ED or things like that, and then everyone is always having the discussions about size mattering or not. But I guess at the end of the day since sex doesn't equal gender that some people may enjoy having a penis while considering themselves a female, or vice versa. While the organs are functioning they may still be a source of pleasure (although many gender dysphoric people report not enjoying using their birth sex organs).

I guess I don't fully understand it either, even if I am awash in trans culture, friends, and experiences!

 

[MardukGKoB]

I am annoyed by things like "Gay Pride". I am not proud of being heterosexual, I just am. My sexuality is meaningless to anyone other than me, any women with whom I have a relationship, and any men who might want a relationship with me (doubtless heartbroken at losing such a treasure).

In my opinion, most games and movies that have homosexual characters portray them in a negative light as much by focusing on their orientation and making that the reason for the character being in the game as by pandering to ridiculous stereotypes. Consider the TV show The Middleman; it received a lot of praise for its portrayal of a Latino as a main character, because ethnicity was not an issue. She wasn't a Latino main character, she was a main character who happened to be Latino. Change that character to a different ethnicity and the changes to the show would have been trivial. Sexual orientation should be handled the same way: not as something special, not as something great, not as an abomination; just something that is and hopefully doesn't get too much in the way of the rest of the show or game.

My values make me say that I don't care about this as an issue. From a purely selfish practical perspective, I am very much in favor of gay men getting married (leaves more women for me), and against lesbians except for limited numbers to support the entertainment industry (and even then I would prefer they be bisexual) so as to again leave more women for me. I have a lot of fun using this argument to explain why the Republican party is generally so opposed to homosexual marriage - they want to have more homosexuals free to play the field.

As for the transgendered, I can't say I've ever seen it come up in any meaningful (i.e., non-celebrity) way. My only concern there is with the childbearing ability of those who end up as female. I wouldn't want to deny the world my offspring. Who else would lead you into a glorious new era?

 

[TheDooD]

To me they're gonna have to get past the sex as a goal and work on dependable, romantic relationships. When you're building that relationship the end product should in my eyes be a very close friend instead of just a sexual conquest.

Dragon Age 2 already did that, I would argue.
Sadly, it was accused of being "unrealistic" because four love interests were bisexual.
Apparently, some people live in closets. No pun intended.

This subculture suffers from a prevalent biphobia even more than homophobia, I'd say. The mere possibility of a fictional character even possibly being capable of finding people of either sex attractive seems to utterly terrify these individuals.

I can say it still mission based because you had to trigger a majority the events. It was rare when one of your allies came to you. It was unrealistic because the relationships were pretty damn shallow. It wasn't really a biphobia issue in my opinion... It was just hell I knew from the get go the elves would be bi. Then you have the hot rouge chick that's just showing off the goods that was a gimmie as well. It was Anders that threw people for a loop because in the storyline he's gay the reason why he blew shit up was because of revenge for his former lover.

 

[Sansha]

Bullshit.

You can't make a big deal over this. I'm entirely supportive of equality regardless of sex, race etc, but you can't represent a group of people for the sake of representing them.

Make a normal character, whose personality includes being LGBT, but don't make a big deal of it. Don't draw attention to their sexuality, because it doesn't work.

Flamboyant or campy homosexual characters are boring at best, offensive at worst.

Fallout New Vegas had the best LGBT characters. It was a part of their character, but besides some discussion, nobody drew attention to it like it was a major event.

I can't even name most of them because it all merged so seamlessly. Arcade Gannon comes to mind - he only really starts talking about it when he trusts the player more because the world around him doesn't let him be confident with it, and that's about as real as it gets.

 

[MassiveGeek]

I am myself a lesbian, so I, well, naturally don't actually give a flying fuck.
Seriously - this isn't something I think should be such a huge motherfucking topic anymore. It's not a matter of concern for you, unless you make it so. I do understand that it might be annoying to see stuff like two guys kissing, or two girls kissing, but guess what? It's just as fucking annoying to have a guy AND girl kissing in your face.
In videogames... I seriously... no, I just don't care. Just like whites or blacks - I see it a bit as Lauren Faust with the MLP:FiM series. The colors/design just show your unique persona. I don't care if every single person in a game is a masculine, straight, testosterone fuelled meat hump. If it's relevant to the game itself and well executed, I don't fucking care. Same if the cast was politically correct so to speak, if it is just that, an attempt at avoiding critique through racial diversity, it annoys me a lot more than if it might be able to be interpreted as a nazi propagande cast of some fucker constantly seeking for faults just to be a whiny *****.

Give it up.
It doesn't matter.

... at least not to me, and I'm the coolest person on Earth.

FOLLOW ME MINIONS!

 

[drisky]

Just popping in to give my two cents on this part of your statement. You seem to be pretty darn accepting of trans stuff as is and it's perfectly normal to be unable to relate to some parts of it (or understand at all). As is, people who identify themselves as trans are probably less common than those calling themselves LGB.

Anyways, in regards to surgeries, there's a lot of reasons someone might choose not to have one on their genitals. First off, doesn't that seem like a really scary thing to do? Even if you are full of loathing over these parts surgeries are dangerous and some people might not be willing to risk it. Then of course is the fact that this stuff costs a load of money. Trans people might have enough money for hormone therapy, but not necessarily to get a pricey surgery/revisions. Also, while transwomen are able to get really fabulous surgical options, transmen are presented with much less than "100% functional and real" options. For some these options might be perfect, but for many others it is just not "good enough".

Oh, no, no. I understand that concept. I can certainly understand money and other things coming into play etc, I've seen some of the prices for the surgical aspect and it's equivalent to buying a new car and you'd be lucky to even get insurance to cover it. And yeah, the surgical options for FTM are pretty poor from what I've seen. As it is, sex itself isn't exactly something that happens all the time, so social role by default would be a lot more important anyway.

I more mean in the sense of if in a hypothetical situation, if people had easy access to a perfect method of creating ideal sexual organs which could function and look exactly like the real thing and even be capable of child birth, semen production, etc.

Basically it's just the small minority of transgendered people who according to them just straight up like the sex organs they were born with, even though they went through the effort of transitioning. I don't really get why someone would enjoy that. It's not exactly super common, but I have heard of it and met people who say they identify with this concept, and I don't really get it at all.

Then, finally, there are people who are happy with their current set of genitals even if they are not common for the gender they identify with. Different strokes for different folks.

This is generally the part that confuses me. The rest of it I can kind of understand.

1 out of 10 people that undergo sex reassignment surgery regret it. It does happen when a full time women ends up losing their libido because it they couldn't have one without their penis. It happens and there is no trail period. Most will live out a few years exclusively socially, rather then sexually, because it is risky. The only thing sex surgery changes is the actual act of sex, which is like you said, less important then the rest of their life. They would probably take the a free 100% transformation if offered, but in the real world it is a significant decision, so it just has to be weighed like any other decision. It has less to do with liking their genitals and more to do with priority.

 

[Skratt]

I would say that I can understand a gay gamer's frustration at having to pursue a heterosexual relationship in a game like Mass Effect. I think if the role were reversed, I'd either not play or at the very least not pursue a relationship. Not from intolerance, but rather it just doesn't appeal to me and would take me out of the immersion, as it were.

Other than where the interaction of the player in the relationship affects the story, I can't think of any reason games can't feature or star same sex partners.

 

[LiquidGrape]

I can say it still mission based because you had to trigger a majority the events. It was rare when one of your allies came to you. It was unrealistic because the relationships were pretty damn shallow. It wasn't really a biphobia issue in my opinion... It was just hell I knew from the get go the elves would be bi. Then you have the hot rouge chick that's just showing off the goods that was a gimmie as well. It was Anders that threw people for a loop because in the storyline he's gay the reason why he blew shit up was because of revenge for his former lover.

Actually, the events which allowed progression of the romance were fairly evenly distributed in terms of initiation. Sometimes Hawke would make the move, sometimes the opposite party. The locale and circumstances were also in a state of constant flux, which made it seem all the more realistic a relationship.
I realise I can only speak for myself, but my LadyHawke romance with Isabela is probably the most legitimately intimate and well-written a coupling I've encountered in a game.

As for Anders, I don't remember him or Vengeance ever mentioning Karl as the prime motivation for the anti-templar plot. It was likely a contributing factor, certainly, but Anders is first and foremost an ideologue.

The scene which most people cite in their criticism is Anders' flirting with a Hawke of either sex, regardless of whether the player is interested or not.
Apparently this is unacceptable behaviour all of a sudden. As is the doling out of Rivalry points if one rejects him.
Some people argue that they shouldn't be "punished" for not being into teh gay, but what those people fail to realise is that it isn't a punishment. It's simply a different dynamic and the logical outcome of how one might approach a very real situation with a character in a very particular emotional mode.

(Please don't read this last paragraph as aimed at you, it was directed at a faceless culprit of sorts which I have encountered one too many times.)