LGBT topics in Video Games
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No, I don't think so. Bill Maher last night said it best - and I paraphrase -SwimmingRock said:
"Democrats didn't lead the acceptance in the American community of gays, TV did, because Americans believe that if they see it in TV than it must be OK!"
And as much as - an American - I'd like to distance myself from that, I really can't. Because it's true. Americans - and most people, I'd wager - need to see things in popular culture before they can "accept" them.
As far as the LGBT community is concerned, anything that gets the "minorities" seen more in greater pop culture is a good thing.
I've never played a Persona game, but when exactly did Fallout:NV tackle the subject of gay rights or public acceptance?Not G. Ivingname said:Zaik said:
One character was told fuck no because the survival of the BoS required procreation, and accepted it without putting up very much of a fight. That's not a really compelling example.
Can't knock what you haven't tried.Zaik said:I've never played a Persona game, but when exactly did Fallout:NV tackle the subject of gay rights or public acceptance?Not G. Ivingname said:Zaik said:
One character was told fuck no because the survival of the BoS required procreation, and accepted it without putting up very much of a fight. That's not a really compelling example.
More of personal acceptance in the BoS, you can't honestly say Veronica's lesbianism part of why she isn't truelly accepted in the Brotherhood, and did you really think she could fight verbally or physically against power armor?
Maybe? It's never brought up unless you dig through optional dialogue that most people would never bother with. It's not exactly detailed on the matter, or even really bothering to explain that anyone beyond Father Elijah found out. You're kind of looking at a ruler and seeing a yard stick.Not G. Ivingname said:Can't knock what you haven't tried.Zaik said:I've never played a Persona game, but when exactly did Fallout:NV tackle the subject of gay rights or public acceptance?Not G. Ivingname said:Zaik said:
One character was told fuck no because the survival of the BoS required procreation, and accepted it without putting up very much of a fight. That's not a really compelling example.
More of personal acceptance in the BoS, you can't honestly say Veronica's lesbianism part of why she isn't truelly accepted in the Brotherhood, and did you really think she could fight verbally or physically against power armor?
it would work if people weren't twats. you got the 8 years old who don't know what the word means saying fagot like they were homophobic machine guns. and then you get that one person who misinterprets things and then they get up-in-arms and try to get someone who thinks they were helping fired.
Well, you actually keep changing what you "say" - actually. As somebody who's worked as an editor and majored in English and Communications I tend to notice this kind of thing.
You're wrong.
That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen anyone - straight, gay, or otherwise - make - and I'll just leave it at this:
You're wrong.
Dear Fenris,FenrisDeSolar said:Of course not!Shikua said:And... I don't think it would be a bad thing... at all...FenrisDeSolar said:This... cannot be denied...Shikua said:
Firstly, that was supposed to be taken in jest. Of course they're not including the option to have hug-fests in Call of Duty 15.TU4AR said:
Secondly, I find it hard not to take these things personally. Hearing that I shouldn't ask for equality because heterosexuals outnumber LGBT-people is insulting to all the people who support it.
Next, have you ever considered that this majority you speak of actually constitutes several minorities? Take gender for an example. This is one divider of our "majority". Cuts everything into about half. Then we take another dig at the majority, dividing it this time by ethinicity. Next, by nationality. Next, by age. Then we look at who is middle-class, and who is upper-class. We separate each other by political views and religious views, and finally we get to sexuality. You will probably find that there is one person of an "alternate" sexuality in almost all minorities, and even so, LGBT-people are bunched into their very own minority. For no reason. We're not monsters, and we're not that rare. We're only guilty of taking the same sex into our hearts (and beds). But there is a very outspoken minority that stands in the way of anything other than "hot lesbian fanboy food" getting into videogames -- namely, homophobes. I won't delve into my opinions of them, as I'm sure it is no better than what they think of the likes of me. However, a minority stands in the way of another minority getting content that satisfies them into games.
I mean, seriously, a "gay-filter"? How do you think that will make me feel? Or anyone who has ever been with someone of the same sex?
LGBT-people are not as rare as some like to think, and I will boldly state that they will likely make up about 20% of all gamers. I don't base this on statistics, however, but on what I have seen and known from all my time in various gaming communities. That's not too bad for a minority. Women likely make up a similar percentage -- a minority -- but you do not feel it's unfair that women feature in videogames?
I shouldn't have to shut the fuck up and just deal with the fact that my sexuality is considered wrong. I never chose it. I was born with it, I embraced it and I live with it. I want to see that it is acknowledged. I don't rub it in anyone's face, and I don't mean for anyone else to do it either. I just want there to be an opportunity for me to get my rocks off, just like there is for "everyone else". That's not much to ask. If sex and love is to be included in a game, and in particular if it is love, then gender shouldn't matter.
It's actually not that hard to make a character PC-sexual. As in, they can fall in love with the playable character, regardless of gender. As long as the first move lies in the hands of the player, no one should be offended by this strategically implemented "bisexuality" either, as the content would then only activate if you were pursuing a romance. Which should be clearly marked out by little hearts, if that's what if fucking takes for homophobes to not ask for a "gay-filter".
*Please note, I am absolutely drained, as this is the umpteenth bloody time I have to defend my sexuality, and the right to its inclusion in videogames.*
I think I love you. Marry me?
~Shikua
A well-written character is a well-written character. If a gay character fits into your narrative, put one in.
It seems the nay-sayers are unable to understand the difference between the phrases "putting LGBT characters in more games" with "LGBT characters should be the only characters in games"
It seems the nay-sayers are unable to understand the difference between the phrases "putting LGBT characters in more games" with "LGBT characters should be the only characters in games"
I don't think there's anything stopping an LGBT group from getting the funds together and making a game that they feels genuinely incorporates their view on how those issues should be addressed in the purview of games.
Of course not! Anyhow,
I don't think that is what they want, let alone that that is how it should be handled. The main goal of a game is (often) to tell a good story. If it involves LBGT issues as one of its theme, fine with me, and with many others I am sure. But it's hard to have a game where LBGT issues are the very raison d'être, or at least, to make it a compelling one without seeming overtly preachy.chronobreak said:
Mostly, we are talking about RPG's that I've noticed, however "alphabet soup" (earlier I saw someone start in with the LGBTQQIU...didn't even get started good by the way, and LGBT generally covers it all for simplicity's sake) has permeated gaming since the '80's with not one, but two transwomen still in gaming today, Birdo and Poison, which is kind of odd art imitating life, but if you know anything about Civil Rights around Sexuality and Gender Orientation, you probably know that, or well, you should, but we're not talking about rights...we're talking about topics.
So, right there, you have a beat'em up/fighter and a platformer with two LGBT characters who are found throughout both games. Since then though, LGBT characters have found their way into numerous games, but three companies have stood out as actually being able to do something good with it; Bioware (KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age), Square Enix (Final Fantasy Series, mostly, though a few others), and Atlus (Shin Megami Tensei series, specifically, Persona 4).
I'm not big on spoilers, so I'm not really going to explain all of these, but if I slip into spoiler territory, here's your warning.
I think Knights of the Old Republic was the first of these I noticed (mostly because my RPG experiences beforehand were Pokemon and Zelda, and while Tingle is running around in Rosy Rupeeland, there's really not much in either of those). The character of Juhani is just a character. Nothing really different about her. She's quiet, she keeps to herself, she's had a turgid past, but she wants to do right in the world (I played as a Jedi and not Sith, so, yeah). As you get to know her though, especially when playing as a female, you learn pretty late in the game that the reason she joined the Jedi order, and the reason she let her emotions get the better of her with her master, was that she basically had a crush on a Jedi Knight off to war...a female one at that. It's implied that after the game, she went off with the other Jedi who is perpetually worried about her.
I'm gonna stay away from the Atlus games in general, just because I've only played through a few of them, and then only just the one time, and go into Squenix territory.
Squaresoft was an interesting company over its span as its own entity...and when talking about LGBT topics in gaming, they're flagship series is the easiest place to look. Even after the merger with Enix, the company has continued to include LGBT characters and situations in their stories. So, let's just run down the FF Games LGBT stuff, as it's one of the top series in gaming period.
FFIII - Arc...not much else to stay there, as nothing was ever touched on it, and it's mostly speculative, but yeah, even if he wasn't meant to be, he certainly comes off as such. Also, since Arc didn't really exist as his own character until the remake, this may should find its way deeper on this list, but oh well.
FFV - Princess Sarah in this one was quite a bit different than her previous incarnations (FFI, FFIII). In this version, his name is Faris Scherwiz. And that's just the beginning. Faris is a pirate captain, and for the first five hours of the game, that's all you know about him. Get a little deeper, you find out that he is a she, and not that as the game progresses, but that she's a Princess. Whether or not Faris is transgender is up to debate, as the game continually keeps pronouns about the character pretty neutral, and that at the end, she does run off to join her crew after becoming bored with the throne.
FFVII - Situation Cross Dressing, and we're leaving it at that...because, swarms of fangirls scare even me...and I'm one of them...just not for him. Oh, and the gym owner that helps him, definitely.
FFVIII - It's there, but more for humors sake than anything else, with a brief cameo by a trans NPC.
FFIX - Quina Quen and Vivi; the young black mage and his potential love interest, the genderless Qu, Quina raise a lot of questions about Androgyny and Pansexuality, so, yeah.
FFXIII - Fang and Vanille, if you haven't played it, I wouldn't blame you, but yeah...front and center.
So, LGBT Topics are there, maybe even more so than film (how many LGBT Topics do you see in film where it's not actually a gay film?). Would it be better if there were more...maybe...though, they are found fairly frequently in games today. The issue is more that, with all characters, regardless of age, race, sexuality, gender, gender identity, or religion, they still need to be fully fleshed out in a lot of ways across the board. Sadly, RPG's seem to be the only thing really trying to do that lately, but we do still see a few things here and there.
So, right there, you have a beat'em up/fighter and a platformer with two LGBT characters who are found throughout both games. Since then though, LGBT characters have found their way into numerous games, but three companies have stood out as actually being able to do something good with it; Bioware (KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age), Square Enix (Final Fantasy Series, mostly, though a few others), and Atlus (Shin Megami Tensei series, specifically, Persona 4).
I'm not big on spoilers, so I'm not really going to explain all of these, but if I slip into spoiler territory, here's your warning.
I think Knights of the Old Republic was the first of these I noticed (mostly because my RPG experiences beforehand were Pokemon and Zelda, and while Tingle is running around in Rosy Rupeeland, there's really not much in either of those). The character of Juhani is just a character. Nothing really different about her. She's quiet, she keeps to herself, she's had a turgid past, but she wants to do right in the world (I played as a Jedi and not Sith, so, yeah). As you get to know her though, especially when playing as a female, you learn pretty late in the game that the reason she joined the Jedi order, and the reason she let her emotions get the better of her with her master, was that she basically had a crush on a Jedi Knight off to war...a female one at that. It's implied that after the game, she went off with the other Jedi who is perpetually worried about her.
I'm gonna stay away from the Atlus games in general, just because I've only played through a few of them, and then only just the one time, and go into Squenix territory.
Squaresoft was an interesting company over its span as its own entity...and when talking about LGBT topics in gaming, they're flagship series is the easiest place to look. Even after the merger with Enix, the company has continued to include LGBT characters and situations in their stories. So, let's just run down the FF Games LGBT stuff, as it's one of the top series in gaming period.
FFIII - Arc...not much else to stay there, as nothing was ever touched on it, and it's mostly speculative, but yeah, even if he wasn't meant to be, he certainly comes off as such. Also, since Arc didn't really exist as his own character until the remake, this may should find its way deeper on this list, but oh well.
FFV - Princess Sarah in this one was quite a bit different than her previous incarnations (FFI, FFIII). In this version, his name is Faris Scherwiz. And that's just the beginning. Faris is a pirate captain, and for the first five hours of the game, that's all you know about him. Get a little deeper, you find out that he is a she, and not that as the game progresses, but that she's a Princess. Whether or not Faris is transgender is up to debate, as the game continually keeps pronouns about the character pretty neutral, and that at the end, she does run off to join her crew after becoming bored with the throne.
FFVII - Situation Cross Dressing, and we're leaving it at that...because, swarms of fangirls scare even me...and I'm one of them...just not for him. Oh, and the gym owner that helps him, definitely.
FFVIII - It's there, but more for humors sake than anything else, with a brief cameo by a trans NPC.
FFIX - Quina Quen and Vivi; the young black mage and his potential love interest, the genderless Qu, Quina raise a lot of questions about Androgyny and Pansexuality, so, yeah.
FFXIII - Fang and Vanille, if you haven't played it, I wouldn't blame you, but yeah...front and center.
So, LGBT Topics are there, maybe even more so than film (how many LGBT Topics do you see in film where it's not actually a gay film?). Would it be better if there were more...maybe...though, they are found fairly frequently in games today. The issue is more that, with all characters, regardless of age, race, sexuality, gender, gender identity, or religion, they still need to be fully fleshed out in a lot of ways across the board. Sadly, RPG's seem to be the only thing really trying to do that lately, but we do still see a few things here and there.