Lies they teach you in HIstory class

[Zenode]

Lie#whatever the hell it is:
That Communism has actually existed in a pure form.
People talk about the Russian being communist under Lenin, Stalin and everyone up until 1992 but for Communism to exist everyone has to be earning the same, living in the same type of house etc but people were allowed to sell on the free market, people where allowed to become richer than other people (after the Russian civil war) and many people were still working as peasants up until the end of Stalinism.

In short: Communism has never existed on a high form of Socialism.

Lie#whatever the hell it is +1: The Americans saved Australia from Invasion.
Actually the Japanese had no intention in the first place to invade Australia since we were seen back then as a waste of a continent not possessing any resources of worth and being very little threat to the Japanese so they decided not to invade. When the Americans came over they where seen as the saviours of our nation, ones who had saved us from the Japanese, when in fact the Americans saw Australia as little more than a base of operations from which to launch ships.

In Short: Americans never saved Australia from Invasion, Japanese just weren't bothered.

 

[pirateninj4]

Here's one for you. Japan had been trying to surrender for months before the US dropped the A-bomb on them. It's believed that it was a power play to show Stalin that the US was the big boy in the yard.

if you ask me the Japanese had it coming,they should have gotten 5 nuclear bombs not 2,they conquered,enslaved and tortured chinese and western people and craved power,its completely justified. And yeah tension between capitalism and communism existed before the war but everyone decided its better to go with communists against a common enemy than alone.

Wow. Just what I'd expect I suppose. Here's a question though, based on your statement of belief. What about America? Invading 2 countries, being responsible for the meteorical rise of ACTUAL terrorism, being insanely power-hungry, torturing innocent people? Do they deserve 2 A-bombs?

 

[Jerious1154]

Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.

It's true that the issue was over states' rights vs Federal power, but slavery was the only reason that it became a conflict of Civil War magnitude. The south would not have seceded from the US because of high tariffs.

The reason that the border states didn't join the south was that the Union suppressed Confederate sympathizers in those states by arresting them. They didn't make them follow the Emancipation Proclamation because they needed those states in order to win the war, and they didn't want to give them a reason to secede.

 

[S53]

Oh wow. I could go on forever in this thread. Pick your poison. We got the American Civil War, and how it was about "slavery". That the Spanish beat Southern Indigenous Tribes because of advanced weaponry. That America entered WWII because of Germany's European Aggression, not Pearl Harbor. I could go on.

The American Public School System did wonders for me, really.

 

[wippersnapper]

What nobody is taking into account is how little musso really cared about ideology so its almost impossible to say whether or not they are left or right wing so it really depends on the teachers viewpoint on the similarities. That is down to opinion. And the second one shouldnt be stalin was better than hitler, its not like they where both two great guys and we're trying to figure out who was best. Both where evil and europe was on the cusp of war or involved in war due to both of them.

Mind you a lie is Alexander Graham Bell did not invent the telephone, he just patented it, Antonio Meucci invented the telephone

 

[Warwolt]

Umm, Lie one is wrong. They are left and right wing, they're just opposite in names and methods. Just because they have a couple of similarities doesn't mean they're not opposites (for example they're both governments!)
Lie two is also wrong. Europe was under soviet yoke for longer than just stalin, and even so 'better' is not something that can be measured in body counts. Also you're forgetting perspective, it was better for say Jews bacuase just about anything was better than the nazi's.
I was never taught 3 or 4 so I'll keep quiet on them.

The opposite of Communism is Anarchy, the political spectrum is not exactly linear.

Communism and Anarchy are almost the same thing...

Or how about you learn something about those ideologies. Communism is an extreme leftist authoritarian state-model, Anarchism is just extreme liberalism.

Except it's not. The ultimate forms of Anarchy and Communism are stateless, classless societies. The main differences are that Communism has actually had countries try to implement it (and get extremely diverted), and I think Anarchic philosophy deals more with government than class systems.

But Communism is a left-wing idiology and Anarchism has nothing inheritly to do with either the right or the left-wing politics. Its on the Liberalism-Authoritarianism scale.

 

[Datalord]

I am trying to compile a list of lies or misinformation they teach you in History class. So far this doesn't even apply to current events which would make this list far more interesting. Do you have any you think you want to add or any rebuttals. Also note for those in other countries, this is written from an American perspective.
Lie #1
Communism and Fascism are opposites. The truth is they are both totalitarian governments run by dictators who oppose individuality. In fact the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker'S Party.
Lie #2
Europe was better under Stalin than Hitler. The fact is Stalin was responsible for more deaths in Europe than Hitler was.
Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.
Lie #4
The civil war was fought primarily over slavery. The fact is, although slavery was on issue,the main one was state's rights vs. Federal power. If the main focus was slavery than states like Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri would have joined the South, they had slaves and were Northern states, and additionally the Emancipation Proclamation didn't apply to them.

Firstly, equating socialism to communism, and also to fascism is retarded. If that assertion was true, do you really think Europe would still have socialist governments? The truth is that there never has been a truly by the letter communist state, and even if there was it would suck. The Nazis were socialist in the same way that many African countries are democratic republics... you know, with military dictators. How then do you account for the corporations that did quite well under the Nazis? Socialism? You are correct in saying fascism is not the opposite of communism. It is indeed it's own beast away from the normal political spectrum. It has come and gone under many names and "ideologies" but in the end it always characterized by being an authoritarian military state with one hell of an attitude problem.

I agree, people keep bashing communism, saying things like, "Soviet Russia was evil, China is going to take over the world, Capitalism is better" But no country has ever been purely communistic. On another note, contrary to common belief, the US of A is NOT a purely capitalistic country, nor has it been since Laissez Faire policies died with the stock market in 1929. No country has a truly free market anymore, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. And saying communism and fascism are opposites is like saying apples and oranges are opposites

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Christopher Columbus didn't fucking discover North America. He thought he was in the Indies south of Asia. The first people from Europe to discover North America were the Vikings.

Close, but it seems you have fallen victim to another lie. I can't be arsed to find it right now, but if you read Lies My Teachers Told Me, you'll find out that excerpts from Christopher Columbus' journal show that he realized that he was in America well before he died. You are correct on the whole "he didn't discover it" thing (besides, how can you discover a place where there are already people =P), but he did know that he had found a "new world," and used that to abuse the native people. The people who say that he died without knowing what he had "discovered" only do that to A) make his story seem more tragic, and therefore increase sympathy for Columbus, and B) cover up what he did to the natives once he landed on Cuba, as well as on his various return trips.

 

[Spitfire175]

snip

I'd appreciate that you didn't call me 'brainwashed' for daring to disagree with you. I have a different political compass from you and expecting me to classify such complex ideas in exactly the same way as you is unreasonable.
I'm not claiming that either could be classified in such a blanket term as 'better'. I'm well aware that the red army was not particularly nice. Yes they had a eugenics program to create niche workers, forcing sons into the same jobs as fathers. Also breaking the family unit wasn't new either, they tried that in the USSR too if i remember rightly.
As for the Jews; being stripped of possessions was mandatory for communism. Some farmers in Poland escaped this but they were the exception (and would later cause trouble under Walesa)
Yes I've heard of the warsaw uprising and the Soviet inactivity. We're talking occupation here. Not to say it's not relevant but do you really expect either ruler to help those who would soon turn against them? Those poles fought for democracy. Not communism. Stalin wasn't going to help them and they knew it. They hoped to take warsaw before he got there in hopes of gaining concessions. Also don't forget it was the Nazi's that were the ones to put down said uprising.
Like I said, it's a matter of perspective. Communism has a guarantee for jobs, Jews and others avoided genocide etc. To apply a blanket statement like the op betrays a certain one sided thinking. Neither was good and it depends on who you are as to which was better. Furthermore you forget that Eastern Europe was occupied for longer than Stalin and that Stalin was denounced after his death in hopes of a new era of communism. The occupation went on and just about everything mentioned above ceased. Stalin had E.E. for 8 years. The USSR had it for over 40.

Okay, first off, I want to say I'm, sorry if I have offended you in any way, it was never my intention. The left-right- political field you presented is just rather narrow minded, and it is often favored by people who read only their basic history textbooks and start shouting about how the nazis are a right wing party every time someone says something different. Luckily, you seem not to fall into either of these groups, since you were able to reply in a very civilized manner AND you knew of the warsaw uprising, which is often not mentioned.

Then, about the poles and uncle Joe. The point was to present that the people suffer somewhat equally in all extreme forms of goverment. The soviets committed a "social and economical genocide" in the eastern europe, they didn'y outright kill quite as many people as the SS, but made life a lot worse for literally everyone. Plus, even if "socialism" guarantees jobs, it won't guarantee a steady, reasonable standard of living. (National socialism guaranteed jobs as well)
About Stalin and some propaganda for the soviet people about a new era for communism, it's an elaborate disguise for the KGB to work underground. People were no longer sent to siberia in masses for no reason, but if somebody opened their mouths- "Welcome to siberia!". Plus, open violence was still enforced if someone dared to demand some rights. (Prague, 1968?) Soviet style communism was extra super bad when uncle Joe was on the throne and just regularly terrible when someone else was pulling the strings.

 

[Spitfire175]

Lie #3
Inflation is a natural process of the Economy. The truth is inflation can be avoided or at the very least minimized if the Government didn't continue to over mint money and if we actually had money that was backed by something.

Inflation is a natural process of the economy as its a result of growth, it can't be avoided without the economy stopping.

Quite right, since there is always more debt than actual wealth. Federal reserves make sure that new $$$ keep coming ans the nation (USA) gets more debt. Inflation is also a useful tool, if you have, say, hundreds of billions of debt. With accelerated infaltion it's easier to get rid of such a burden.

That doesn't make any sense. Ho doe debt stimulate the economy?[quote="Cheeze_Pavilion"

When there is debt, the federal reserve pumps more new money to the market. More money means more consumption. Consumption gives corporations a big money ejaculating hard on. All this works fine until someone wants some money back.

 

[Darth Pope]

My fellow Americans who think we've never lost a war, sorry to burst your bubble but read up about a little thing called the War of 1812.

 

[Spitfire175]

Umm, Lie one is wrong. They are left and right wing, they're just opposite in names and methods. Just because they have a couple of similarities doesn't mean they're not opposites

Okay. You'vew been brainwashed, sorta. The political spectrum has 4 extreme ends: Communist, conservative, libertarian and anarchist. Stalinism is communism in practicality. (The difference between communism and socialism is that communism is a societal utopia, socialism is an economic system(its opposite is capitalism)) National socialism is NOT the opposite of communism or stalinist socialism. They are inversions of each other, mirror images, so to speak. Both systems support exteme goverment power, control religion, have a centalised power structure, control the economy and control all media.

I'd agree with this post if Stalinism was emphasized over the "socialism" and "communism".
Socialism is a useless word that can mean anything and should be removed from our vocabulary in favor of more clearly defined words, like Stalinism, Maoism, Troskyism.

As "socialists" they get along so terribly you might aswell throw the national socialists into the chaos aswell.

Here we might be facing a language barrier. Since English is not my first language, I may have used "socialism" a little crooked. My point was made, though.

To clarify, Let's list a few (trying! to say as little as possible about how good or bad they are.) :

Communism: A theory, according to which all wealth should be equally divided ando no one owns anything, thus creating a utopia, in which everyone does what is needed and gets what he needs. Communism is a theory, not a form of goverment, some govermenst just follow some common doctrines of communism. Marx himself stated that communisn is, and always will be, a utopia, it will never be truly reached. He also stated that whe should, however try to head for a communist society, as he believed that man is truly happy with no personal possessions at all. (An idea rooting back to the 1700s, first presented by J.J. Rousseau.)

Capitalism: Not a form of goverment either, it's a theory, according to which all men are born equal, and after that, you are on your own, free to do whatever you please, but without reducing anyone else's equal right to do so. Capitalism is based on the idea of possession. In a utopistic capitalist society, the first and foremost job for the goverment is to secure the citizen's possessions. The idea of capitalism was based on the ideas idealistic philosophers of the 18th century. Back then the resources in this world seemed limitless along with the expansion of the north american continent, so no one could ever own too much. Modern capitalism recognises this.

Socialism: A type of goverment which enforces strong economic control, often reduction in civil/human rights and detests religion. Socialism is based on communism. In practicality all left wing communism based socialism works rather poorly. Altogether socialism is a very wide word and dozens of variable types of goverment can be seen as socialist.

Libertarianism: A form of goverment/society system. Free market with a ginormous capital F. Capitalism is applied and goverment just makes sure you don't lose all of your money to guys with more guns than you.

Stalinism: Socialism, in which Iosif Stalin was made omipotent, AO, The one and only, father sun, single divinity. Uncle Joe said how high the olypmic team had to jump and the olympic team jumped, or got shot. The simple principle of "remove the man- remove the problem" was enforced with great enthusiaism. Stalinism existed in the soviet union until the 1950s, when Iosif saw fit to kick the bucket. Maoism, "Kim jong Il-ism" and the rest are slighty altered variations of Uncle Joes good ol' way.
(Trotskyism: never got on, a more realistic view of the idea of communism, did not seek a world revolution and total domination)

Fascism: Born in the 1920s in Italy and southern europe, it was seen as the "3rd option" in the rivalry between democracy and socialism. Benito Mussolini's and Franco's fascism was "national socialism". It recognised nations as units, and their people as masses, who needed a strong goverment and most of all, a strong leader, to keep them safe from the evil and dangerous soviet driven socialism. Technically, fascism is socialism with a different shirt on. Why Fascist groups are often stated as "right wing" is due to the fact that they rose into power as an opposing force to the clearly left wing soivet socialism. In reality, fascism is a centrist-leftist political idea: no personal freedon(lefty) and some economic freedom, such as general stores are allowed to operate(centrist).

Absurdism: The goverment of monkeys forces you to herd giraffes and dragonflies. Every night propaganda videos shout about how good rotten onions are.

 

[Alex_P]

We got the American Civil War, and how it was about "slavery".

Once again, the consensus position among historians is that slavery was the primary cause of the American Civil War.

Of course, saying that any really, really major world event happens for just one reason is simplistic and stupid, but saying that the Civil War somehow "wasn't about slavery" is beyond stupid -- it's a monstrous, self-serving lie with no grounding in historical fact.

-- Alex

 

[Zombie_Fish]

This may have come up before but people didn't believe the world was flat, but they believed it to be round. Many a philosopher before Columbus talked about the Earth being round, as if you traced the horizon, it slightly curves. Columbus actually wanted to prove that the Earth was pear-shaped.

My fellow Americans who think we've never lost a war, sorry to burst your bubble but read up about a little thing called the War of 1812.

They may want to also read up on a little thing called Vietnam.