Logic (or lack of) in Mass Effect 3's endings

[Simeon Ivanov]

I don't really need to say that the endings suck, we all know that. But I'm really confused ... here's why:

All endings
1) So the Mass Relays are destroyed in every outcome. Doesn't this mean the united galactic flotillas I gathered are stranded on Earth? If so, the Quarians, Volus and Turians are screwed because there is no dextro-amino (or whatever it was) food for them.
2) How does Shepard survive in space without any air? I didn't see a dome or ... anything that would indicate there was air during your conversation with the Deus Ex Child
3) So ... the synthetics are destroying organics in order to prevent synthetics from destroying organics ... To quote GLaDOS "Don't think about it, don't think about it ..."
4) Why can't I use Joker/EDI or Geth/Quarians as an argument agains the God Child's logic?
5) The God Child said that someone built the Reapers ... when? And for what purpose?
6) Didn't Arrival teach us that destroying a Mass Relay will result in the destruction of an entire solar system? Is that sill valid here? (Why not?)
7) What happened to my squadmates in the final mission? Did they really just abandon one of their closest friends? And why was Joker fleeing from Earth?

Destroy
1) So I destroy every piece of machinery in the galaxy, sending every known race back at least 1000 years (or so). But what about the Quarians and the Volus? They can't live without their suits. So if I choose this option, I'm committing double genocide ... (to my wife no less)
2) The Geth also die ... but didn't Tali said that the Geth blur the line between synthetic and organics?

Control
1) So ... WHY is the cycle inevitable again? Quarians and Geth? Joker and EDI? ... nothing?

Synthesis
1) How does this actually work?
2) If everything is part synthetic now, and everything is part syntetic, do those units have souls?
3) How do different races react to this?
4) How do the quarians survive?
5) How does this affect the culture and life of everyone? Is there piece now? Are there wars? Does this affect emotions? Love, Hate, Fear, Friendship?
6) Does this affect intellect? Does it make everyone smarter?

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

The thing that bothers me most is the God Child ... seriously, out of fucking nowhere. Why does it look like the child in Shepard's dreams? Is it on purpose or is it just a coincidence?

-If the God child is in control of the Citadel, why did Sovereign need Saren in ME1? If the God Child is in control of the Reapers, why didn't HE just control the citadel?

-He said that the cycle is inevitable, because it has happened before. He mentions something about creators. Okay, who created the Reapers? And could they possible come to the conclusion that synthetics will always rebel against organics? I can't even begin to comprehend how that makes sense. "Synthetics destroy organics to prevent synthetics from destroying organics".

 

[Kahunaburger]

Well, the motives of the reapers and the god kid can be handwaved as the people who built them not being particularly bright, but there's really no excuse for the blatant space magic merge ending.

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

Well, the motives of the reapers and the god kid can be handwaved as the people who built them not being particularly bright, but there's really no excuse for the blatant space magic merge ending.

Yeah, you would THINK that people who can build millions of 2 kilometer long giant spaceships of death who can survive for tens of thousand of years in deep space would be a little smarter than to paradoxically allow the cycle to continue. But ... then again ... we're not giant mechanical space squids so what do we know

 

[Kahunaburger]

Well, the motives of the reapers and the god kid can be handwaved as the people who built them not being particularly bright, but there's really no excuse for the blatant space magic merge ending.

Yeah, you would THINK that people who can build millions of 2 kilometer long giant spaceships of death who can survive for tens of thousand of years in deep space would be a little smarter than to paradoxically allow the cycle to continue. But ... then again ... we're not giant mechanical space squids so what do we know

Well, we don't know how long it took them to get to the "2 kilometer space squid" phase of their civilization

 

[sonofliber]

i do think it was an hallucination on shepard part, and the extra ending kind of helps my poin (reaper sound in the background, shep on earth)

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

i do think it was an hallucination on shepard part, and the extra ending kind of helps my poin (reaper sound in the background, shep on earth)

That actually kind of makes sense ... that would definitely help the DLCs that could possibly give us better endings

 

[Valanthe]

This thread is Spoilered already, but I'll be going to into very specific ending details, so I'm gonna spoiler tag this anyway

Spoiler

Hallucination is part of my personal theory. Think about it. The only person who takes notice of or interacts with the kid is Shepard, you see him in a vent, and he vanishes without a sound when you look away for a second. Even when he is struggling to get on board a shuttle, no one even looks at him. Then there's the odd dreams, which the kid and Shepard are the only 'real' things. then the God Child at the end takes the form of said kid even though he's never even met Shepard before. This leads me to a conclusion that The Kid never existed. He is a figment of Shepard's imagination, a hallucination caused by all of the pain and loss he has experienced over his life finally breaking his mind. This reaches the final snapping point in hte final push, he's just lost two very close friends back on Earth, and after defeating The Illusive Man, which is taxing even if you don't shoot him yourself.

And finally, after killing TIM, Anderson, your father-figure throughout all three games, succumbs to his wounds and dies. All of this snaps Shepard's already beaten mind, and his fractured mind creates the illusion of the God Child as the Reaper's Indoctrination is finally able to get a foothold. This hallucination offers three choices. Control and Merge didn't actually do what Shepard thinks they do, and he is either killed or processed and the ending cutscene is created by his own mind fabricating an ending. And destroy is Shepard fighting the indoctrination and firing the Crucible, with himself maybe dying in the process.

I am aware my idea has more holes in it than swiss cheese, but you have to admit it's more solid than the LOLSPACEMAGIC we're currently stuck with.

 

[Cybren]

Holy crap this games ending just made me physically I'll

 

[Jadak]

Synthesis
1) How does this actually work?
2) If everything is part synthetic now, and everything is part syntetic, do those units have souls?
3) How do different races react to this?
4) How do the quarians survive?
5) How does this affect the culture and life of everyone? Is there piece now? Are there wars? Does this affect emotions? Love, Hate, Fear, Friendship?
6) Does this affect intellect? Does it make everyone smarter?

This is the one that bothers me the most. How would this even work? Ignoring what the fuck it even means, how does it change anything?

Being a hybrid organic/synthetic does nothing to prevent your new hybrid race from being lazy and going on to create a race of machines to do their work for them, and those machines eventually being upgraded to sentience and rebelling, accomplishing nothing.

Is being a hybrid supposed to make everyone not want to build things? Is it supposed to make machines not want to rebel against them out of sympathy or something? None of that makes any sense...

 

[SajuukKhar]

This is the one that bothers me the most. How would this even work? Ignoring what the fuck it even means, how does it change anything?

Being a hybrid organic/synthetic does nothing to prevent your new hybrid race from being lazy and going on to create a race of machines to do their work for them, and those machines eventually being upgraded to sentience and rebelling, accomplishing nothing.

Is being a hybrid supposed to make everyone not want to build things? Is it supposed to make machines not want to rebel against them out of sympathy or something? None of that makes any sense...

It probably works through a combination of a recombonant DNA device, ala the Markers from Dead space, combined with The Reapers nanomachines, which accoring to ME2 they have nanomachines, that fuse them togeather.

 

[Neyon]

It wasn't that complicated. The cycle & the reapers were presumably created by the same people who created the mass relays, the citadel & the child AI. The aim was to ensure synthetics would never wipe out all organic life in the universe permanently by destroying advanced civilizations before this could come to pass, storing them in reaper form (which is why nearly all reapers being squid like makes little sense). Essentially it was all based on the assumption that as long as organics and synthetics are separate they cannot coexist & coming to this conclusion the creators put this plan into place.

The creators did not however create the crucible, which introduced a variety of different solutions which are acted out by Shepard.

 

[SajuukKhar]

It wasn't that complicated. The cycle & the reapers were presumably created by the same people who created the mass relays, the citadel & the child AI. The aim was to ensure synthetics would never wipe out all organic life in the universe permanently by destroying advanced civilizations before this could come to pass, storing them in reaper form (which is why nearly all reapers being squid like makes little sense). Essentially it was all based on the assumption that as long as organics and synthetics are separate they cannot coexist & coming to this conclusion the creators put this plan into place.

The creators did not however create the crucible, which introduced a variety of different solutions which are acted out by Shepard.

...............dear gods................... someone.................. who isnt so blinded by hate and dreams of space-waifus................ that they can actually make a coherent though.............. instead OF ME HAS PLOT HOLES RAGE RAGE RAE?

I didn't think it was possible.

 

[Kahunaburger]

This is the one that bothers me the most. How would this even work? Ignoring what the fuck it even means, how does it change anything?

Being a hybrid organic/synthetic does nothing to prevent your new hybrid race from being lazy and going on to create a race of machines to do their work for them, and those machines eventually being upgraded to sentience and rebelling, accomplishing nothing.

Is being a hybrid supposed to make everyone not want to build things? Is it supposed to make machines not want to rebel against them out of sympathy or something? None of that makes any sense...

It probably works through a combination of a recombonant DNA device, ala the Markers from Dead space, combined with The Reapers nanomachines, which accoring to ME2 they have nanomachines, that fuse them togeather.

So in other words, Hideo Kojima wrote the ME3 ending.


So, uh, where are all these nanomachines before the green explosion? Why made them? Why? How do they know how many of them they need? How do they aim them? How do they determine is organic/synthetic material in the first place, and how do have enough information to convert any possible such material into a "hybrid" without significantly changing its function?

This is the problem with plot spackle in sci-fi - it often raises more questions than it answers.

 

[bLAZay00]

Re. the nanomachine thing, we've got loads of inorganic material randomly cycling through our bodies. Maybe they used kidneys as collection sites and white blood cells to make a gen 1 nanomachine. Or you can just handwave and accept that this is a sci fi story and that over thinking it ruins the story it's telling.

It's cool if you don't like the endings. Just don't play the story mode again. Hell, ME1 was already in medias res. You just have to accept that there are some things they want to keep around for potential DLC/novels.

I will say the star child thing was a bit out of the blue.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

I absolutely hate linking to my own thread, but PLEASE READ THIS. Honest, trusting fans have the right to hope.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.353805-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-Conspiracy-If-you-love-Mass-Effect-and-hated-the-ending-READ-THIS-PLEASE

 

[AcacianLeaves]

I'm not upset with the God child space magic. I'm not even really upset that all three endings are essentially copy pasted with a different space magic color. Hell, I can even accept Shepard's "death" being poorly handled.

What I really am upset about, is the destruction of the Mass Relays and the likely destruction of most technology - I guess, I don't know why else the Normandy would explode.

Aren't the Quarian's suits partially synthetic? And the Volus? By destroying synthetic life, did I just kill Tali, Miranda, and Grunt (all relying on some form of "created" tech) and commit genocide three times over?

Did I just strand the combined military forces of the entire galaxy in the Sol System? The entire Quarian Flotilla (if they aren't all dead) will never see the homeworld that I JUST FUCKING FOUGHT TO WIN BACK?!? Don't Turian and Krogan DNA rely on a form of food that doesn't exist in the Sol System? Did I just effectively commit Krogan, Quarian, Geth, Volus, and Turian genocide?

If I did, maybe there should be something in the ending that reflects that? Maybe you could show me the fates of Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Wrex, Tali, or any of the other characters I've spent at least two games getting to know? Honestly, I think this is sequel or DLC bait. They have to know this sucks.

Keep an eye out for Mass Effect: ODST, Mass Effect: Reach, and Mass Effect: Wars.

But, on the subject of sequels and post-ending DLC: how? By destroying the Mass Relays, you've effectively destroyed your ability to continue to tell stories in this setting. It is very clear throughout the games that without the Mass Relays it would take years or even centuries to travel to other systems. The setting is now, for all intents and purposes, just the Sol System - with our one habitable planet and no food for Krogan or Turians. BioWare has taken their expansive, epic, wondrously vast Sci-fi setting and destroyed it.

Sorry, that was long. I've been needing a place to rant about this since I finished it on Saturday.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

It wasn't that complicated. The cycle & the reapers were presumably created by the same people who created the mass relays, the citadel & the child AI. The aim was to ensure synthetics would never wipe out all organic life in the universe permanently by destroying advanced civilizations before this could come to pass, storing them in reaper form (which is why nearly all reapers being squid like makes little sense). Essentially it was all based on the assumption that as long as organics and synthetics are separate they cannot coexist & coming to this conclusion the creators put this plan into place.

The creators did not however create the crucible, which introduced a variety of different solutions which are acted out by Shepard.

...............dear gods................... someone.................. who isnt so blinded by hate and dreams of space-waifus................ that they can actually make a coherent though.............. instead OF ME HAS PLOT HOLES RAGE RAGE RAE?

I didn't think it was possible.

It's not hard to understand it's just stupid. A 4 year old could've written the endings to ME3 and a 4 year could understand them.

It's just really really really silly.