Major Changes In Youtube Involving Let's Players

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Simonism451

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the hidden eagle said:
Simonism451 said:
the hidden eagle said:
To anyone who supports this I have to ask one question:Do you really want corporations controlling the content you watch just because you feel the content providers are a little too successful?
They are not controlling the content I watch, they are controlling whether or not someone gets money for creating a video that hugely relies on using content created by someone else without the consent creator of that original content.
Sure that might be the case now....but soon you won't be able to post anything on Youtube without a corporation's say so if things like this continue to happen.So I'll again:are people who support this willing to let corporations control the content they watch just because some content providers are successful?
Sure, for now, you might have nothing against them putting you in jail for murdering people, but if they keep this shit up then soon your grandma will get put on the electric chair for really liking CSI.
 

babinro

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Sep 24, 2010
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I'm torn on this subject personally.

This is only impacting those who profit off the let's play which means they are just profiting off of content they don't own or have the rights to use as an investment vehicle. I'm inclined to side with big business if my understanding is correct.

Perhaps these Let's Players could try and receive permission prior to posting such content for profit.
Seems like the decent thing to do for all involved.

On the other hand, this seems like a win/win for all involved. People are marketing for big business at a fraction of the cost and these LP's must influence at least a few sales.

Personally, I've only ever decided to NOT buy games thanks to LP's but I doubt I could speak for the norm. For example, I hate the combat in God of War but would previously buy the games to experience the story. A let's play gives me everything I want out of the experience and saves me money in the process. Rince and Repeat for any game whose 'gameplay' isn't the key selling point.
 

Kittyhawk

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Aug 2, 2012
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A2: yes, i'd worry. I'm a big fan of Two Best Friends Play vids, Total Biscuit and other gaming tutorials that help me out of a fix in a big way. If these go, it hurts all gamers. Google make 96% of their money from advertising online, so I'd really like to know why they are getting antsy about one or two gamers sharing their love of games and making a few bucks on the side. And I thought they were all about promoting being an entrepreneur online. My guess is they don't get how people can do their little projects and get success, without all the legal bs of a proper business.

This is kind of dangerous for Google because gamers will jump ship to twitch etc.

A3: No sir, I don't like this dumb decision. It makes the internet a worse place, where its sweet for the megacorps with ad money but sad for smaller folk without. To begrudge such gamers the pittance they get on Youtube is just silly and petty. Its like they are saying gamers aren't worthy of anything.

A4: There will be no video game crash like 83' because the PC is a transitional system that will always be around in some form or another. PC was also around in 83 and gained some ground when consoles got in trouble. Games are also made on PC too, so the best we might get would be a reboot of sorts. That seems doubtful now, since PS4 and XB1 have just come out.

A5: Some will stay and some will depart. The bigger Let's Players will hang on in there. Can't say who.

Conclusion: Google are getting silly and hurting the house they helped build. There is one thing that LPlayers can do and that's give any game they use/play a short review at the beginning or end of their videos. A review need not be an essay, just a short opinion piece (covering say controls, story, gameplay and an overall score). Do this and they shouldn't need advertising as much.
 

Muspelheim

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Yeah, heard that, LPers? You're all apparently lazy hacks who effortlessly steal other's work while doing none of your own.

Or perhaps they are not.

Well, sure, it's always been an iffy issue, and at the very least some of the add revenue should be going to the publishers, since it's their IPs. But that's the thing, a much better deal that would satisfy anyone could've been arranged. That way, we could've kept an interesting subculture without dubious syndication deals, the publishers could've gotten more free advertising and everyone could've shared the cake.

Perhaps Let's Players aren't lazy, talentless thieves depriving true artists their bread, similarly to how publishers aren't looming, faceless boardroom spawn attempting to strangle any form of consumer criticism of their products.
 

Someone Depressing

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Jan 16, 2011
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LPs are supposed to help people with games - and appreciate them - and are otherwise basically free advertisement. I know about many of my favourite games today because I was having a sleep-deprived Sunday night, wondering around Youtube.

It's just insatiable greed with the companies. I sort of get disabling adds, afterall, if they haven't asked the company for permission to make money from their work, they can't really complain. But not making videos outright is just pure greed.
 

Doom-Slayer

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Jul 18, 2009
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SecondPrize said:
In the case of your house, every item you used you had a right to use in that manner. In the case of a videogame, you don't have a right to post videos featuring large chunks of the game if you're not reviewing or parodying it and then monetize. You'll notice this is the case because google and the publishers are putting a stop to it.
Except thats my point, you said "Yep, you still don't get to make money off of the work of others." Making money of other people and other peoples tools is entirely legal. Breaking copyright infringement is the problem related to Lpers, not "making money off others". The reason I make a deal of it is because a ton of people criticizing Lpers or pirating etc always use that line, which is completely wrong. Breaking copyright infringement, ie a special set of laws ONLY for digital products, is the illegal and ethically wrong part, making money off other people is not.
 

SecondPrize

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Doom-Slayer said:
SecondPrize said:
In the case of your house, every item you used you had a right to use in that manner. In the case of a videogame, you don't have a right to post videos featuring large chunks of the game if you're not reviewing or parodying it and then monetize. You'll notice this is the case because google and the publishers are putting a stop to it.
Except thats my point, you said "Yep, you still don't get to make money off of the work of others." Making money of other people and other peoples tools is entirely legal. Breaking copyright infringement is the problem related to Lpers, not "making money off others". The reason I make a deal of it is because a ton of people criticizing Lpers or pirating etc always use that line, which is completely wrong. Breaking copyright infringement, ie a special set of laws ONLY for digital products, is the illegal and ethically wrong part, making money off other people is not.
I would have thought that it went without saying that you don't get to make money off of the work of others without having the right to. Because this is the case here. Responding and explaining how someone can make money from the work of others is completely pointless if you ignore the bit about whether they have the rights or not. So what if you can buy tools and build a house? This affects whether LPers can post videos featuring an entire game when they don't have the rights to do so and monetize how?
 

GoaThief

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Feb 2, 2012
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Doom-Slayer said:
Breaking copyright infringement, ie a special set of laws ONLY for digital products, is the illegal and ethically wrong part, making money off other people is not.
Copyright laws extend way beyond digital media, and do exactly in fact give the holder rights to decide if people can make money off of their work or not, "gives the copyright holder the right to be credited for the work, to determine who may adapt the work to other forms, who may perform the work, who may financially benefit from it, and other related rights. It is a form of intellectual property (like the patent, the trademark, and the trade secret) applicable to any expressible form of an idea or information that is substantive and discrete.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
 

Mid Boss

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Aug 20, 2012
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GoaThief said:
Mid Boss said:
I.... I don't see a link to your youtube channel anywhere... Did you forget to put it up? I can't subscribe if you don't put a link up man.

I'll sweeten the deal! My blog has almost 4000 watchers on tumblr. You make your let's play channel and I'll plug you on it. Should get you a couple dozen watchers! More than most people EVER get. This is a great opportunity for you.

Come on.

It doesn't get. Any better. Than this.
Then. You. Must. Not. Have. Anything. Better. To. Do. Unlike. Me.

Seriously, your argument to anyone who dares to think of LPs as anything less than godlike is "lulz get millions of viewers just cuz I say so" - do you not see how egocentric and silly that sounds?

You've already had far more of my time than you deserve. Alas, I don't think you're going to have a reasonable discussion any time soon.
You keep saying how easy it is and how over paid they are. Back it up! What the hell are you doin here? All the time you've spent arguing here you could have cranked out a video by now. Yet, I STILL don't see any links to your channel! It's quite perplexing that someone would pass up on all that incredibly easy money. Most people jump on such an opportunity.
 

Niccelson

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Firstly, can I just point out something I haven't seen anybody mention? Look at the OT. Look at the list of companies that are willing to completely lock down anyone who makes money from a derivative of their product. I ask you, where is Namco Bandai? Where is Konami? Where is Ubisoft? Where is EA? There are some big names missing from that list and maybe I'm biased, but historically some of the above seem way more like the type to have this attitude to IP than someone like Rockstar or Naughty Dog.

Secondly, if this actually becomes a significant force, (hopefully it doesn't) then all of the companies listed will simply lose out on all of the publicity a well-done LP can give them. So a well-respected, highly subscribed creator on YouTube can't actually make money from a certain company's game. Big deal. Let's Players that are serious will just find another game they like which isn't married to a company that likes to dick people over. You know who really LOVES LPers? Indie developers. The direct competition to AAA publishers. I look forward to the day when these people actually rise further as a result of corporate idiocy.

Thirdly, I'm just going to say this straight. If somebody can experience all your game has to offer by watching a full LP and they don't feel like buying your game afterwards, you have FAILED to make an engaging game. (Personal counterexamples to this are when I bought The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution after watching Jesse Cox beat both games fully.) People that have just finished watching that LP shouldn't be thinking "Well, I know how it ends and what all the Easter Eggs are, there's a game I don't need to play for myself." They should be thinking "That thing looks unbelievably AWESOME! How good would it feel to go through that experience again but to actually BE IN CONTROL of what happens?! WHY is Steam taking so long to load?!" And if you want to be pedantic about it then every game has this aspect in a way: watching someone play at 30 FPS on YouTube with some delay between what they do and what they say, then playing that same game yourself at 60 FPS where you experience the action firsthand is a night-and-day difference.

Finally, I just want to say that Devolver Digital is awesome. If you don't know what I mean, this is the link they posted on Twitter yesterday: http://canipostandmonetizevideosofdevolvergames.com/
 

Headsprouter

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Nov 19, 2010
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2xDouble said:
Headsprouter said:
Answer me this, why do the LP's have the right to make money of someone else's work?
Why do news casters have the right to make money telling other people's stories?
Why do art galleries have the right to make money displaying other people's paintings and sculptures?
Why do museums have the right to make money displaying other people's discoveries?
Why do libraries have the right to make money renting out other people's books?
Why do television networks have the right to make money showing other people's acting and editing work?
Why do retail stores have the right to make money selling other people's products?
Why do theater houses have the right to make money showing other people's plays or movies?
Why do chefs have the right to make money cooking other people's produce?
Why do restaurants and wait staff have the right to make money serving other people's cooking?
Why do crafters have the right to make money using other people's yarn/stickers/cloth/knives/etc.?
Why do musicians have the right to make money using other people's instruments?
Why do radio stations have the right to make money playing other people's songs?
etc., etc...

...because they're each selling their own quality work, not someone else's. That's what "derivative work" means; they aren't selling the same product. Sadly, some corporations lump "derivative work" together with "plagiarism" and "cheap knock-offs", which is an understandable concern, but hardly applicable.


Captcha: "Worth Overdoing." How appropriate.
I'm sorry, sir/madam, you just barged the wrong person. Make sure you're quoting the right person next time.
 

Emaruse

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Aug 9, 2010
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@SimpleBluff: I actually found a few videos saying this WILL Affect AngryJoe, and I do believe there's a video around the first page that said that AngryJoe discussed this with ReviewTechUSA, but right now, this is just speculation, so I honestly can't say for certain on that subject all together, so you might be right on that. However, Angry Joe DOES use Game Footage in his reviews, so I am somewhat certain this does have some hold on that decision.

And on the topic of LP's, There's a few things I want to say: 1. If someone buys a game, it's their property. If someone uses a straight rip from a game, that's copyright. If someone does commentary and criticism while streaming a playthrough of a game, that's being a Let's Player/Reviewer. However, like many have said before, it's not easy doing a LP Channel, because of all the factors people have said, but however, in order to stay successful, very few people here have said one factor that makes the difference between a good Let's Player and a bad one, as well as how much work one puts into those projects: Quality Control. Anyone with a decent amount of money can begin a LP (Well, not anymore, but you get the idea) but Quality Control will depend on how much you can do. If you do solid Quality Control where everything is entertaining, informative, and with good material and resources at a regular basis, you get more viewers, but that requires constant work (For some who were against this idea, why don't you show us YOUR Youtube Area and see if you have Quality Control down Perfectly. If you don't, you need to bow out on this one), and if you don't, it really shows what's your best and worst works.

2. Yes, I do agree that Let's Players should be paid for their work, which is what Youtube did, and considering they're giving the game companies free advertisement, it's a double-edged sword. Because if it's a good game, people will buy it, and yes, watching a game does make some might not want to buy it, but some people want to try games for themselves after watching, that much is true, considering I bought Metal Gear Rising just because of Two Best Friends Play. However, some people are saying they are stealing from game companies. That is both true and false. It's true because they are streaming their games on the internet for all to see with their own commentary and criticism, and they are getting paid for it, but that is because it is a "derivative work" based on the developer/publisher's game, which puts it on the middle ground. However, that is false because although they are getting paid from Youtube, it's not as much as you would like to think, since people think Ad Revenue must be thousands and thousands of dollars, I can honestly say, it's not. It's at best WAY less than minimum wage for those with only 1k-10k Subscribers, closer to minimum wage with those 10k-100k, and at minimum wage and higher for those at 100k+ (And I know I may be incorrect, but that's my perspective) and at the end of the day, even the best LP's don't make even close to as much money as the Development Studios or the Publishers of Those Games. And even then, they technically aren't losing money, in fact, they're gaining more notoriety, good or bad, and that, as a result, can make both parties even more money, or make the developers/publishers lose money if the game is just outright terrible. It's an honest 50/50 there, especially if it's a bad game (But bad games don't deserve to make money in my opinion, even IF good people made it, it would just perpetuate the cycle of even more bad games. For example: Quantic Dream, enough said.)

3. In the end, this will lead to either three outcomes: A- The Let's Players of Youtube will migrate to another area and perform their works there, hoping to impress the game companies and hopefully find some footing to do their jobs on a more professional level/ B- The major game companies will begin hiring their own Let's Players to comment and criticize their games, only the players will do it on their terms and their demands, meaning a more dishonest and possibly shameful playthrough instead of a more honest and bold one, hell, they may even make game reviewing magazines do the dirty deed for them since they know how to hype up games/ C- In time, and after a lengthy debate on all matters involving copyright laws and such, we will know a true sense of peace where let's players can continue their work, and certain companies will feel the right hand of the law for their fowl play.

Eitherway, those are my thoughts on those matters.
 

Artaneius

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Dec 9, 2013
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Then whats the point in putting all the work into the editing process if you don't get anything for it? Those graphics, special effects, audio recording, and other bits and pieces that pop on the video take work and time to do. If you don't get anything out of it might as well as just record the video and put it up without anything else. Just be a plain boring walkthrough video.
 

Eve Charm

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1: What do you think of this sudden change happening next year?

If it's Only effecting the ability for people to make money off of someone's else content, Fine. If it means people having the choose Gameplay or not gameplay in content that isn't just a lets play, sucks but fine if they still want to make their money off it.

2: Are you worried about your favorite Let's Player's future?

Not really, Youtube isn't the only thing, Twitch and other sites are still out their, There is always subscribing and donating if your worried about someone not being able to "play video games for a living" At the end of the day this will mostly mean less triple A games and more indie games getting shown off since they'd see it as free advertising. Give the advertising to the people that need it.

3: Do You Think This should have happened a long time ago, and are proud of Youtube's Decision?

This probably should have happened a long time ago. It will let people both big and small protect their works and have a say in " oh you can or can't run ads on my work."

4: Anyone think that Video Game Crash is going to happen due to this being one of the factors?

Not a chance, The video game crash isn't going to happen because anyone "Can't make money off of Call of duty gameplay or last of us or other triple A" the odd thing is, This could be something that saves video game crashes from happening, at least not the big publishers. Big publishers can advertise their own games, since LPers wouldn't be able to make money off of them, they'll LP smaller less known games from companies that don't care, making those games more popular and hopefully sell more.

5: Which Let's Players do you think would be fine with this outcome? Which ones do you think would not be?

From the way it looks like anyone with a big network.

6: Freestlye Final Thoughts - Your take on this with a good conclusion?

I hope this standard gets held to everyone at least. The whole idea of LPers was anyone could be a Lper. The idea of not being able to do it without being in a big corporate network or having free reign to do whatever the hell you want is crummy.
 

DataSnake

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Aug 5, 2009
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Missing from the OP is Deep Silver, whose policy, as outlined by their head of PR, is as follows:
Just read an article that outlined several publishers and their stance on YouTube/monetization. Stunned that so many don't allow it.

— Aubrey Norris (@Chupacaubrey) December 8, 2013 [https://twitter.com/Chupacaubrey/statuses/409705841445441537]
Oh well- the more other devs and pubs make the dumbass decision to prohibit monetization and use of footage, the better for me. Just...smh.

— Aubrey Norris (@Chupacaubrey) December 8, 2013 [https://twitter.com/Chupacaubrey/statuses/409706287862001664]
 

TheGrueHunter

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Jan 14, 2013
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Genocidicles said:
If this stops cunts like Pewdiepie making money from their shitty videos then I'm all for it.

Sucks for the few good ones though.
GoaThief said:
If it gets rid of the likes of Pewdiepie, then it's long overdue and I'm all for it. They provide nothing insightful, unfunny and don't deserve the often large incomes.
Sseth said:
Good. PewDiePie is a talentless shmuck who really needs to stop making money for being a waste of organic matter and screaming at the video screen. The fact that he's getting shafted makes me so happy. I really hope he quits making videos.
I'm honestly astounded that people have this kind of viewpoint. You want to screw over hundreds, if not thousands just to get at one person you don't like? Should we forbid anyone from making any music ever just because we hate Beiber? You've got a fly buzzing around your house and you're going after it with a sledgehammer.

klaynexas3 said:
Genocidicles said:
If this stops cunts like Pewdiepie making money from their shitty videos then I'm all for it.

Sucks for the few good ones though.
I think we should stop music from being a job entirely, so that bastard Justin Beiber stops getting paid.
God damn it, you already beat me to the punch.