man stuck in a womans body and vice versa

[Jenvas1306]

I read an article in People about a 12 year old boy who felt that he was a woman trapped in a boy's body. He's now taking puberty-suppressing drugs until he's old enough to safely undergo gender reassignment... Am I the only one around here who thinks this is fucked up? When I was 12, I (white male) talked with a fake ebonics accent, idolized professional football players and put pictures of nike sneakers on my desktop (not shitting you *facepalm*). A 12 year old can't be trusted to choose what the eat for fucking breakfast much less to make decisions that will have so great an affect on one's body and mind as gender reassignment. Thoughts?

do you think you just go to a doc and get hormones? do you have any idea what kind of shitstorm it causes to perscribe that to someone who later finds out it was just a phase?
psychologists I have met are frigging paranoid about that. so much that they might reject people where it would be ok to perscribe them.
medical books about that topic are full of examples oof wrongly given or withheld medication. tons of examples that turned out to be something else and also lots of example where people went for it, regreted and turned back or just arranged themselves with it.
but thats just the minority, most people who are determined enough to go through all the burocrazy and psychologists poking at your most intimate parts of your self are later significantly more happy.
and in that case of that 12 year old girl, I am certain that she had to goo through even more to get startzed at such a young age (which btw gives her a huge advatage, for example all those years she is not going to waste with trying to fit into a role that will never suit her).

you know there is such a thing as being a professional at finding out if its just a phase or really transgenderism.

fucked up is the suffering most people in such situations go through before they even get close to be able to realize whats going on with themselves after being brainwashed in believing to have to be male or female just because other people say so.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I read an article in People about a 12 year old boy who felt that he was a woman trapped in a boy's body. He's now taking puberty-suppressing drugs until he's old enough to safely undergo gender reassignment... Am I the only one around here who thinks this is fucked up? When I was 12, I (white male) talked with a fake ebonics accent, idolized professional football players and put pictures of nike sneakers on my desktop (not shitting you *facepalm*). A 12 year old can't be trusted to choose what the eat for fucking breakfast much less to make decisions that will have so great an affect on one's body and mind as gender reassignment. Thoughts?

If your teenager is transgendered and fully committed to a sex change, there really isn't a better favor you can do them than to let them go through with it. Transitioning early, before secondary sexual characteristics develop, will make eventual passing and fully integrating into the new gender 100 times easier. Most of the transition horror stories are older men or lifelong crossdressers who decided to transition as a sexual thrill, lost their ability to orgasm, couldn't pass, and ended up battling severe depression and social ostracization.

As to the possibility of it "just being a phase"...well...I guess you have to lean hard on professionals for that. I don't have tremendous faith in mental health professionals, but sane/responsible ones should be aware of the seriousness of the undertaking and observe all necessary precautions before giving the green light.

 

[Angelowl]

I read an article in People about a 12 year old boy who felt that he was a woman trapped in a boy's body. He's now taking puberty-suppressing drugs until he's old enough to safely undergo gender reassignment... Am I the only one around here who thinks this is fucked up? When I was 12, I (white male) talked with a fake ebonics accent, idolized professional football players and put pictures of nike sneakers on my desktop (not shitting you *facepalm*). A 12 year old can't be trusted to choose what the eat for fucking breakfast much less to make decisions that will have so great an affect on one's body and mind as gender reassignment. Thoughts?

Two things. First the whole point of taking the hormones suppresors is so that no significant change occurs in the body either way. If it is just a phase then they stop taking them and get hormones to kickstart a regular puberty. No harm done.

At twelve years old, the age when I entered puberty, I got pretty fucked up. Realised quite fast that no one would listen, and that I had zero support for even survival. Got a serious depression within a year, got paranoid and suicidal. I got impulses to harm myself and others, to the point of thinking of killing my own family (in order to keep them from killing me). I lost all social interest, failed school and completely lost my will to live.

Needed to move in with my best friend and entrust him with a lot to overcome my paranoia and depression (still gets me sometimes). The destructive impulses disappeared within a week after I got HRT. I can recognise my own mirror-image and not want to strangle the person I see. Can finally be social and enjoy other peoples company. I still failed high school and dropped out of college three times, as the remnants of the depression kills any motivation to study. I can collapse and have my brain tell me that I overstayed my welcome, with no way of controlling it. I still wouldn't entrust my family with my life, as I'm not sure they even want me to be alive.

So, yeah... it fucks you up big time, even at that age.

 

[Beautiful Tragedy]

Yep, as I stated above... I knew at 5 years of age...I waited another THIRTY years before i began transition because I didn't feel I could come out to my *what i thought to be super conservative* parents. When I finally told them about a year after starting HRT AND *at the time* was in the process of legally changing my name, they were mad at me.... for not coming out when i was a kid. They told me they would have taken it very seriously, and gotten me every bit of help i needed one way or the other. Now, they love me, and are incredibly proud of their "new" daughter.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Black people and white people do not have different brain chemistry. Your comparison is just... wrong, I'm afraid.

 

[Rosiv]

Who's the one making unsubstantiated claims now?

See, this is what I'm talking about. Whether I posted them or not, we'd still be having this argument. I refuse to waste my time. You are welcome to believe what you want to believe but don't claim it as unequivocal fact.

Its a REAL hypocritical thing to denounce someone for claiming fact, when you wont even prove your own. When you state something so absolutely, like a fact, the onus falls on you to provide the source, unless you denote it as your opinion. So i don't see why you would be so critical of her, when you cant even do that, it seems to be like a diversion tactic from your actual claim, because you cant back it up well.

 

[Dismal purple]

I read an article in People about a 12 year old boy who felt that he was a woman trapped in a boy's body. He's now taking puberty-suppressing drugs until he's old enough to safely undergo gender reassignment... Am I the only one around here who thinks this is fucked up? When I was 12, I (white male) talked with a fake ebonics accent, idolized professional football players and put pictures of nike sneakers on my desktop (not shitting you *facepalm*). A 12 year old can't be trusted to choose what the eat for fucking breakfast much less to make decisions that will have so great an affect on one's body and mind as gender reassignment. Thoughts?

Puberty blockers are reversible, puberty is not.

Implying this is the decision of the kid, and not a join decision of a team of psychiatrists as well as the parents.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's my argument to the Nobel Prize Physics committee every year.

Watch out, I once got modded for a comment like that because, according the the Escapist, it's claiming...I forget the exact wording....Expertise you may not possess.

I would look up the specific complaint, but I don't keep messages that far back YOU ARE TEH BIAS!

Who's the one making unsubstantiated claims now?

Since you haven't substantiated your claims, still you. Also:

See, this is what I'm talking about. Whether I posted them or not, we'd still be having this argument.

That's an unsubstantiated claim. In fact:

I refuse to waste my time.

You've wasted more time arguing how you won't waste time than it would take to come up with all these numerous "scholarly articles" you've found.

You are welcome to believe what you want to believe but don't claim it as unequivocal fact.

I didn't. You're misrepresenting me. It's dishonest. My only "claim" was that it was interesting you would only consider another point of view with academic articles, but refused to justify your own claims with them. Meanwhile, other people have actually linked to scholarly articles, ones that actually demonstrate their point of view, which you refuse to acknowledge. Don't accuse others of closed-mindedness if you're going to play that game yourself.

If you are really so interested in this subject, you are welcome to search for my claims yourself.

Back up your own claims. Everything I've found looking into it has demonstrated that there are differences between the "male" and "female" brain. I have a scientific mind, though. I am more than willing to entertain research that demonstrates otherwise. However, you claim you have evidence of these claims, and I haven't found it. Since you are claiming "most research" is now showing that this isn't the case, it should be easy to demonstrate. Hell, BG's link should have shown some results early on. There should be all sorts of this stuff in medical and psych journals counteracting prior research. It should be a big deal in the trans community right now. There should be metastudies looking at the overall flow of information.

So prove it. It should be freaking easy to back up your claims.

But don't say you have proof and then pull the "we're done here" card when challenged.

BloatedGuppy's link was a Google search result for a specific confirming term he put in. Hardly "providing scholarly articles."

Google Scholar, which provided multiple hits for articles defending the exact subject in question. Did you even look beyond the URL? Because it might behoove you to know what you're talking about first.

We're done here.

Honey, we were done before it was started. Just admit you didn't have such information and were hoping it'd go unchallenged.

Its a REAL hypocritical thing to denounce someone for claiming fact, when you wont even prove your own.

Especially since I never pushed any claim as "fact" towards him. Well, except for the fact that he was asking for scholarly articles and not providing any of his own. That sort of is a fact. but I wasn't claiming any unequivocal fact regarding the science here. I can only go off what I know, and what I know about the matter dictates that yes, men and women have different wiring on some level. I didn't even make that claim to him that I can recall, however. I simply noted, in different terms but to a similar gist of what you said:

When you state something so absolutely, like a fact, the onus falls on you to provide the source, unless you denote it as your opinion.

Specifically, he claims all this research is now demonstrating his point of view, so he should damn well be able to provide the research.

Hell, I would expect he could find some, period. Even just a few, if he wanted to hunt them down. Scientific journals don't generally censor. You can evidently find papers denouncing global warming in reputed scientific journals. In its academic publications (not the same thing, I know), the APA published a study whose overall conclusion was having sex with children (to paraphrase) wasn't all that bad for the kids. I half-expect if I looked hard enough, I'd find something. There are a few in the search results BG linked to wich sort of fit if you look sideways and squint....

Of course, that still wouldn't back up his claim, given it was a claim that most of the research was saying there are not the differences claimed. That would require an even steeper level of proof.

"Fact" is a tricky thing[footnote] In science, we routinely deal with thing as is the best evidence possible, so I try and steer away from absolute certainties anyway[/footnote], but the science I've seen is fairly persuasive, and apparently the one guy holding on to the truth won't share it. Alas, such information appears lost to the ages. >.>

(BTW, not really aimed at you or anything, just a sidelong ramble because I'm currently fighting the urge to do something constructive. >.>)

 

[chinangel]

Trying to 'cure' me would be so incredibly destructive and ultimately serves no healing purpose to anyone, least of all me

What a lot of people who propose various 'cures' seem to miss is that in almost every single case their 'new idea for a cure' has been already been attempted several times and failed miserably... and in the cases where it hasn't been attempted before it's because the proposal is so unrealistic and fanciful (not to mention dangerous and unethical) that not even a 1920's psychologist from the Behaviourist school would have considered it.

and really only seems to make people uncomfortable with transsexuality and transgendered folk feel better.

Those uncomfortable people are a fuck of a lot easier to give psychological treatment to overcome their discomfort than 'curing' transgendered people.

There's my proposal... we continue treating Gender Dysphoria with HRT and SRS and people who have a problem with this can get CBT treatment for their bigotry. Everyone wins and psychologists get to continue making bank.

Now there is an idea, and not a half bad one either. Perhaps we could use it to combat other forms of bigotry.

 

[Something Amyss]

Those uncomfortable people are a fuck of a lot easier to give psychological treatment to overcome their discomfort than 'curing' transgendered people.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. More to the point, though, I'm utterly amazed at what the real issue is here:

People want to "cure" us (by 'us' I mean people like me, not saying you're included) for the sake of their own comfort and piece of mind. And fuck any problems is causes us, because specious reasoning here.

 

[electric_warrior]

When they examine the brains of transgender people post-mortem, they have the same brain structure as they gender they believe themselves to have. It isn't psychological. At least, it isn't entirely psychological, and there is genuine validity to the claim that they are men in women's bodies and vice versa.

 

[electric_warrior]

I don't have any personal experience on the matter, but as i understand gender identity is a certain mentality. Men and women think in certain ways and so if you put a male or female "mind" into a body of the opposite sex they're going to feel like they're in the wrong body. Or, as it happens in the womb- the brain develops the opposite gender identity to the rest of the body. There isn't such thing as a "black" or "white" mentality, because race refers to generalised physiological traits which don't necessarily impact on your mind and personality. Gender identity however does, because there are male and females mentalities.

Bingo.

This is also why there is no analogy between gender divisions (such as different changing rooms and toilets) and apartheid/racial segregation.

Seriously, some people actually use the term gender apartheid.

 

[Something Amyss]

my boyfriend doesnt like bacon. does that have to be fixed too?

Well, yes. After all, not liking bacon is a mental disorder.

Before anyone jumps on me, red meat and pig products make me physically ill, so I would probably fall under the purge, too. I'm just kidding.

he reacts way more to cute animals than me, does that have to be fixed?

That's a girly trait, so obviously.

a friend of mine doesnt identify as either gender. does she have to be fixed too?

Oh God, even a good chunk of the trans community hates them! I should know...I've dated two. Never bothered me any, but it's bothered a ton of people whose business it was in no sense....

do we fix homosexuals aswell?

I'm of the opinion that homosexuals are the only ones not broken.

>.>

how far would that fixing go?

Well, that's easy. Exactly as far as I disapprove of!

Hopefully, it won't be long before the trend is deemed as stupid and barbaric as trying to force lefties to write right-handed and so on. But since we can't even get people to stop trying to cure "the gay," probably note.