Man "too fat" to be allowed to live in New Zealand

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

This issue seems only indirectly about the man's weight and directly related to his health. With his large proportions he's likely not particularly healthy and NZ doesn't wish to foot the bill. Many countries have rather stringent immigration policies, NZ isn't the only one. I don't see any issue here. Countries are mostly only interested in getting immigrants who will contribute to the nation culturally, economically, scientifically or some other significant way. If one is a burden on their resources, one's home nation ought to foot the bill.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

But see, here's the thing: He's not Morbidly Obese. To be Morbidly Obese, you have to be Greater then or Equal to 290 lbs. He was not only 4 lbs under that, but he has since lost weight. He's Fat, for sure, but he's not Obese. Plus, if your going to expel people because they aren't necessarily "The Healthiest", are you gonna kick me out for having Diabetes? (Although I'm not in New Zealand) Are you gonna kick out some refugee because they have Sickle Cell Anemia? Are you gonna kick out Stephen Hawking because he's a quadriplegic? That kind of excuse sucks, plain and simple. It's a heartless excuse.

 

[The_Echo]

I didn't realize countries could...or even would expel someone because of their weight. That's...interesting. I guess fat people should not move to New Zealand.

I believe Japan has a legal weight limit (sumo wrestlers notwithstanding, I guess). It's got something to do with the fact that islands can sink, I think.

It's no real surprise that New Zealand would keep an eye on its population's weight.

 

[Screamarie]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Actually not necessarily. I weigh close to what this man does, a little less but not much and I have no health problems associated with it, I still get up and do things, I take care of my home and my animals and anytime my family is doing hard manual labor, they need only ask and I'm there to help. John Pinette, a comedian who I would guess weighs 500 lbs has reported that he sees many doctors and nutritionists and he has both good cholesterol and blood pressure.

It all boils down to how lucky you are, same with just about anything. My mother and her younger sister, both smokers for many years. My mother has smoked more and for longer than my aunt, but my aunt is the one who developed lung cancer and died a week or so after her diagnosis.

If this man had been there for six years, had been losing weight, and wasn't already filing for diabetes or cholesterol reducing drugs or something else of the sort (evidenced by the fact that he was said to be a high risk for, not an actual patient of diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease), isn't likely to be a drain. I don't see why they'd be kicking him out NOW unless there was some form of policy change or someone new making the decisions of who stays and who goes.

 

[maninahat]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Actually not necessarily. I weigh close to what this man does, a little less but not much and I have no health problems associated with it, I still get up and do things, I take care of my home and my animals and anytime my family is doing hard manual labor, they need only ask and I'm there to help. John Pinette, a comedian who I would guess weighs 500 lbs has reported that he sees many doctors and nutritionists and he has both good cholesterol and blood pressure.

It all boils down to how lucky you are, same with just about anything. My mother and her younger sister, both smokers for many years. My mother has smoked more and for longer than my aunt, but my aunt is the one who developed lung cancer and died a week or so after her diagnosis.

If this man had been there for six years, had been losing weight, and wasn't already filing for diabetes or cholesterol reducing drugs or something else of the sort (evidenced by the fact that he was said to be a high risk for, not an actual patient of diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease), isn't likely to be a drain. I don't see why they'd be kicking him out NOW unless there was some form of policy change or someone new making the decisions of who stays and who goes.

Statistically, the longer he remains there, the greater the odds are that he will need healthcare. People who are heavily overweight are at a much higher risk of suffering from certain conditions in later life, so as far as the immigration office see it, they are dealing with a ticking time bomb that'll cost them a fortune in medical bills. Of course, he might actually live to be 100 and be an exemplary model of human health, but the visa office isn't planning to bet on it.

 

[Screamarie]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Actually not necessarily. I weigh close to what this man does, a little less but not much and I have no health problems associated with it, I still get up and do things, I take care of my home and my animals and anytime my family is doing hard manual labor, they need only ask and I'm there to help. John Pinette, a comedian who I would guess weighs 500 lbs has reported that he sees many doctors and nutritionists and he has both good cholesterol and blood pressure.

It all boils down to how lucky you are, same with just about anything. My mother and her younger sister, both smokers for many years. My mother has smoked more and for longer than my aunt, but my aunt is the one who developed lung cancer and died a week or so after her diagnosis.

If this man had been there for six years, had been losing weight, and wasn't already filing for diabetes or cholesterol reducing drugs or something else of the sort (evidenced by the fact that he was said to be a high risk for, not an actual patient of diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease), isn't likely to be a drain. I don't see why they'd be kicking him out NOW unless there was some form of policy change or someone new making the decisions of who stays and who goes.

Statistically, the longer he remains there, the greater the odds are that he will need healthcare. People who are heavily overweight are at a much higher risk of suffering from certain conditions in later life, so as far as the immigration office see it, they are dealing with a ticking time bomb that'll cost them a fortune in medical bills. Of course, he might actually live to be 100 and be an exemplary model of human health, but the visa office isn't planning to bet on it.

Yes and I can understand that, not necessarily sure if it's right or wrong or just a gray area, but it seems really wierd that they would do it six years AFTER he first moved there when he's been losing weight. If they had been consistent from the get-go, I would feel sad for the guy, but say "well that's their rules and unfortunately that's how you gotta play if you want to live there"...but doing it now after so long...something seems off is all.

 

[bjj hero]

As they say; never trust a thin chef.

Its like getting tattooed by a guy with no tattoos. Id kick out all of the thin chefs on work visas.

 

[Albino Boo]

But see, here's the thing: He's not Morbidly Obese. To be Morbidly Obese, you have to be Greater then or Equal to 290 lbs. He was not only 4 lbs under that, but he has since lost weight. He's Fat, for sure, but he's not Obese. Plus, if your going to expel people because they aren't necessarily "The Healthiest", are you gonna kick me out for having Diabetes? (Although I'm not in New Zealand) Are you gonna kick out some refugee because they have Sickle Cell Anemia? Are you gonna kick out Stephen Hawking because he's a quadriplegic? That kind of excuse sucks, plain and simple. It's a heartless excuse.

He has to be over something like 6 foot for 130kg not to be morbidly obese and around 7 foot not to be obese, obviously that dependant on build. Obesity is not measured purely by weight but by ratio of height to weight and then further modified by build.
He is not refugee, but someone he left South Africa on his accord seeking economic advantage. Why is the chef allowed to economic advantage by migrating but New Zealand not allowed to seek economic advantage by only allowing people who are net gainers to the New Zealand to remain? Stephen Hawking would not be a net drain the economy because his work has a higher economic value that of chef.

 

[McMullen]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Obviously a New Zealander wouldn't have been expelled. A universal healthcare system is in place for the citizens of a country. This man is not a citizen. Would you also object if he had been denied further residence due to criminal activities?

So according to you, being fat and being a criminal are equitable offenses?

Oh come now. He didn't say that and you know it. If you're actually right you shouldn't have to be that dishonest to argue your point.

 

[CriticalMiss]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

It's certainly a better system than denying basic healthcare to people because they can't afford thousands of currency for a simple checkup or diagnostic screening, or leaving them with crippling debts. If he was a citizen of New Zealand he would be covered, as with most if not all countries with socialised healthcare. He should have applied for citizenship if he wanted to stay so long (6 years so far).

 

[Yarrow]

Fair enough. For the majority of fat people it's a lifestyle choice and so they should lose out on state health care. If they can't be fucked to look after themselves why should the tax payer?

As they say; never trust a thin chef.

Its like getting tattooed by a guy with no tattoos. Id kick out all of the thin chefs on work visas.

You ever seen a fatty in the kitchen? All that sweat dripping into the food.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

He has to be over something like 6 foot for 130kg not to be morbidly obese and around 7 foot not to be obese, obviously that dependant on build. Obesity is not measured purely by weight but by ratio of height to weight and then further modified by build.
He is not refugee, but someone he left South Africa on his accord seeking economic advantage. Why is the chef allowed to economic advantage by migrating but New Zealand not allowed to seek economic advantage by only allowing people who are net gainers to the New Zealand to remain? Stephen Hawking would not be a net drain the economy because his work has a higher economic value that of chef.

But what about the Net Gain of a chef? People need to eat, and Chefs love cooking food. So how is he a net Drain on your economy?

Plus, if you wanna use that argument too, then you have to agree that Illegal Immigrants in the United States should be kicked out, as they are a drain on our economy.

 

[Axolotl]

Plus, if you wanna use that argument too, then you have to agree that Illegal Immigrants in the United States should be kicked out, as they are a drain on our economy.

You only need to agree to that if the drain they place on the economy is greater than the cost of locating and deporting them all.

 

[Albino Boo]

He has to be over something like 6 foot for 130kg not to be morbidly obese and around 7 foot not to be obese, obviously that dependant on build. Obesity is not measured purely by weight but by ratio of height to weight and then further modified by build.
He is not refugee, but someone he left South Africa on his accord seeking economic advantage. Why is the chef allowed to economic advantage by migrating but New Zealand not allowed to seek economic advantage by only allowing people who are net gainers to the New Zealand to remain? Stephen Hawking would not be a net drain the economy because his work has a higher economic value that of chef.

But what about the Net Gain of a chef? People need to eat, and Chefs love cooking food. So how is he a net Drain on your economy?

Plus, if you wanna use that argument too, then you have to agree that Illegal Immigrants in the United States should be kicked out, as they are a drain on our economy.

The costs associated with treating diabetes, heart disease, arthritis and high blood pressure far out exceed the tax revenue provided from a chef. Furthermore the skill set required of chef is far from uncommon and there are plenty of non obese chefs is this world who could do his job without the health costs. New Zealand operates a free at the point of use health care system which is available to all permanent residents of the country, the United States does not offer the same health benefits to illegals. Last point I'm not American.

 

[llafnwod]

Obviously a New Zealander wouldn't have been expelled. A universal healthcare system is in place for the citizens of a country. This man is not a citizen. Would you also object if he had been denied further residence due to criminal activities?

So according to you, being fat and being a criminal are equitable offenses?

No. That was neither stated nor implied in anything he said. He was comparing health risks and criminal history insofar as they are both reasons a state would not want to keep a non-citizen resident. It may be worth your while to look into a list of common logical fallacies (Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies] has a decent one), esp. the entries on straw man arguments.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Um, that's a common policy in immigration.
If people move to your country, you want them to contribute to the country, not be a burden.

Yes, it is a common policy in immigration, funny how it didn't come up WHEN HE WAS IMMIGRATING, at which time he actually weighed more. At the point that he got kicked out of the country he was already a permanent resident, he just hadn't gotten citizenship yet.

And yes, in New Zealand people who are permanent residents are legally given the same access to healthcare as citizens.

It's not like he was planning on immigrating to the country and he was denied access. He has been living in New Zealand for 6 years, he had his permanent home there, his work, his family, his friends, his entire life. If he gets kicked out of the country where exactly is he expected to go?

 

[Vivi22]

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Just because he's 286 lbs. does not mean he's actually unhealthy. Weight alone, unless it's up into absurd ranges like 4-500 lbs. tells you absolutely nothing about someone's health.

Besides, cholesterol lowering drugs don't actually save lives so if they're really concerned about saving money they could just ban them and be done with it.

He has to be over something like 6 foot for 130kg not to be morbidly obese and around 7 foot not to be obese, obviously that dependant on build. Obesity is not measured purely by weight but by ratio of height to weight and then further modified by build.

You're talking about BMI: a number which is utterly meaningless in terms of human health since it can easily be skewed by so many different factors it isn't funny (and it also does not take into account someone's build nor their actual body fat percentage. Is a guy who's 6' and 250 lbs. over weight if he has 10% body fat? No, and it's absolutely ridiculous to claim he is or that his weight will affect his health).

 

[Something Amyss]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

"There are fatter people" is a poor excuse, though. I mean, there are people denied visas for various standards Americans can't pass. I'm wagering it's like this everywhere. Dumb? Probably, but the issue wasn't evidently about his actual weight.

Anyway, assuming average height, he's quite likely a hundred pounds or more overweight. Now, I know there are worse, but that's still pretty bad. I'm like 40 lbs overweight and I am utterly disgusting. And a fair chunk of that weight is due to inactivity due to chronic pain, so it's not just like, laziness. Eating less is rough when your body is still adapted to an active lifestyle (I used to hike, take 4-8 martial arts classes a week, walk everywhere, etc). Still, that kind of extra weight is a serious drag and a serious problem.

Even assuming the weight charts are somewhat unrealistic (and they are), we're looking at a man carrying well over 50 extra pounds. I know the West has lowered the bar a lot, but that's still pretty fat. I'm not judging him, I'm not casting stones from a house of lard, but it is baffling that we are such a bloated society this is.

Plus, if you wanna use that argument too, then you have to agree that Illegal Immigrants in the United States should be kicked out, as they are a drain on our economy.

Honestly, I'd like to see America try and operate without illegals, period. See how long it takes the system to break down without illegitimate labour propping up bad business practices. Then we'll see how much of a drain they are on the economy.

 

[The Funslinger]

Seems more of an excuse than a reason, though.

That's basically what I came here to say. I highly doubt it's written in any set of rules or laws that "if someone exceeds a certain level of fat bastardness, we reserve the right to put you on a boat and prey it doesn't sink before reaching international waters."

There will have been other reasons for wanting this guy gone.

 

[The Funslinger]

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Just because he's 286 lbs. does not mean he's actually unhealthy. Weight alone, unless it's up into absurd ranges like 4-500 lbs. tells you absolutely nothing about someone's health.

Not to mention he appeared to be losing weight at a steady clip. -30kg is pretty fucking good, even if it did take some years to do.

If I lost 30kg, I'd be dead. >_>