Man "too fat" to be allowed to live in New Zealand

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well, I agree with people saying that health is a viable reason to deny him permanent residency.

I am also glad that this example is from New Zealand. Something tells me that if it was the US in question, people in here wouldn't be so supportive of the policy.

That would be because 35.7% of American adults are obese and another third is plain fat, making two-thirds of the country overweight and a measly 30% anywhere between average and thin. With numbers like those it's small wonder they wanna keep certain, uh, standards low.

 

[Brian Tams]

Fair enough. For the majority of fat people it's a lifestyle choice and so they should lose out on state health care. If they can't be fucked to look after themselves why should the tax payer?

Are you fucking serious? Numbers, please, saying that a majority of obese people are that way for kicks.

Have you ever had to grow up a child without a strong metabolism? Judging by how cold and heartless you come off, I'm going to guess no. So let me educate you.

While a child, you get absolutely humiliated at every moment by your arian race of skinny people. When you try to work it off like a normal person, the Third Reich of Healthiness continue to make fun of you because of how stupid you look when an obese person tries to work out. All the bullying then leads to a bad self esteem. Next, because of this self esteem, you begin to develop an innate fear of people in general, as well as a fear of even leaving your own house. This, combined with the fact that food at this point has turned into a drug, leads to a massive gain in weight. But its okay, because its a life style choice, rather than a developed psychological problem, which is probably closer to what the obesity epidemic boils down to.

Now, let me ask you a question. If a person's obesity is caused by either by an actual medical condition (Diabetes, SSE, etc.) or a psychological issue (or hell, even an addiction to fat laced foods, something that has been scientifically proven can happen), wouldn't you then qualify for state provided health care? Or are you going to continue to revert to what privatized health care does, which is to say "You're a burden to costs, so fuck you."

Your post, referring to people who are obese as fatties, saying they should just lose out shows how uneducated about the issue you are. Go away, get educated, then get back to me.

 

[Compatriot Block]

Well, I agree with people saying that health is a viable reason to deny him permanent residency.

I am also glad that this example is from New Zealand. Something tells me that if it was the US in question, people in here wouldn't be so supportive of the policy.

That would be because 35.7% of American adults are obese and another third is plain fat, making two-thirds of the country overweight and a measly 30% anywhere between average and thin. With numbers like those it's small wonder they wanna keep certain, uh, standards low.

Well, the policy is only for potential immigrants, so people born in America aren't relevant at all, as far as being rejected goes.

Not to mention that (according to Wikipedia) as of 2011/12, 28.4% of New Zealand adults were obese, which is only surpassed by the United States in the entire Anglosphere. Second place isn't a good place to be, even if it is by about 7%.

 

[Sahngar]

He wasn't a permanent resident (after living there for 6 years) and didn't meet all of the criteria for a working VISA, so was rejected.

He was there on a working VISA, so I would imagine over time the job market would change. If there has been a overflow of chef positions in the country then that changes the need to issue as many working VISA for chefs, making those that are issued tougher to get and the criteria much more stringent. Likewise, previously there may have been a shortage of chefs to fill the positions available, leading to his application to be accepted.

Everyone should know that the job market is not static, nor is the demand for certain types of skilled labor.

Seems reasonable to me.

I still don't get understand the hyperbolic distaste some Americans have for universal healthcare. When did politics become a sport, so that you back in your "team" no matter what policy is proposed/opposed?

 

[Albino Boo]

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Just because he's 286 lbs. does not mean he's actually unhealthy. Weight alone, unless it's up into absurd ranges like 4-500 lbs. tells you absolutely nothing about someone's health.

Besides, cholesterol lowering drugs don't actually save lives so if they're really concerned about saving money they could just ban them and be done with it.

He has to be over something like 6 foot for 130kg not to be morbidly obese and around 7 foot not to be obese, obviously that dependant on build. Obesity is not measured purely by weight but by ratio of height to weight and then further modified by build.

You're talking about BMI: a number which is utterly meaningless in terms of human health since it can easily be skewed by so many different factors it isn't funny (and it also does not take into account someone's build nor their actual body fat percentage. Is a guy who's 6' and 250 lbs. over weight if he has 10% body fat? No, and it's absolutely ridiculous to claim he is or that his weight will affect his health).

130 kg is an absurd weight unless you are 7 foot tall or 6'5 and built like wall. I'm not referring to the BMI because it only takes common sense that to work height and weight are interrelated. Here is picture of the chef in question and it is clear that he is without doubt fat

I've been around 250-290 (fluctuating) for around 8 years or so now, and I've never had to take any kind of medicine or cost my state any amount of money. In fact, the state I live in loves to take around $100 a month from me...

The assumption that being slightly overweight makes you useless and dependent on aid is silly. Clinically 250+ may be 'morbidly obese' but that's just an opinion by some doctor. Doctors aren't infallible, and my healthiness despite my weight (and shortness) is proof of that.

A little fat is normal. In fact, being 'perfect' is abnormal, but doctors call it healthy. Everything is backwards.

Besides, most people only maintain a slim appearance by under-eating. Most human beings gain weight in modern societies due to extreme lacks of exercise. And yet, they are just as un-healthy as 'fat' people, because they are sedentary just the same.

I refer you to this post here

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Actually not necessarily. I weigh close to what this man does, a little less but not much and I have no health problems associated with it, I still get up and do things, I take care of my home and my animals and anytime my family is doing hard manual labor, they need only ask and I'm there to help. John Pinette, a comedian who I would guess weighs 500 lbs has reported that he sees many doctors and nutritionists and he has both good cholesterol and blood pressure.

It all boils down to how lucky you are, same with just about anything. My mother and her younger sister, both smokers for many years. My mother has smoked more and for longer than my aunt, but my aunt is the one who developed lung cancer and died a week or so after her diagnosis.

If this man had been there for six years, had been losing weight, and wasn't already filing for diabetes or cholesterol reducing drugs or something else of the sort (evidenced by the fact that he was said to be a high risk for, not an actual patient of diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease), isn't likely to be a drain. I don't see why they'd be kicking him out NOW unless there was some form of policy change or someone new making the decisions of who stays and who goes.

Statistically, the longer he remains there, the greater the odds are that he will need healthcare. People who are heavily overweight are at a much higher risk of suffering from certain conditions in later life, so as far as the immigration office see it, they are dealing with a ticking time bomb that'll cost them a fortune in medical bills. Of course, he might actually live to be 100 and be an exemplary model of human health, but the visa office isn't planning to bet on it.

 

[TheKwertyeweyoppe]

I feel like mentioning that I don't see any quotes in that article where the NZ government refers to weight. It is entirely possible, and likely, that he has other health issues.

Let's be honest here, "Man kicked out for being fat" is a much more interesting headline than "Man refused Visa renewal for health reasons".

It's also worth putting forth that it is possible for a health board to make a bad decision without some dystopian agenda behind it.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Fair enough. For the majority of fat people it's a lifestyle choice and so they should lose out on state health care. If they can't be fucked to look after themselves why should the tax payer?

Are you fucking serious? Numbers, please, saying that a majority of obese people are that way for kicks.

Have you ever had to grow up a child without a strong metabolism? Judging by how cold and heartless you come off, I'm going to guess no. So let me educate you.

While a child, you get absolutely humiliated at every moment by your arian race of skinny people. When you try to work it off like a normal person, the Third Reich of Healthiness continue to make fun of you because of how stupid you look when an obese person tries to work out. All the bullying then leads to a bad self esteem. Next, because of this self esteem, you begin to develop an innate fear of people in general, as well as a fear of even leaving your own house. This, combined with the fact that food at this point has turned into a drug, leads to a massive gain in weight. But its okay, because its a life style choice, rather than a developed psychological problem, which is probably closer to what the obesity epidemic boils down to.

Now, let me ask you a question. If a person's obesity is caused by either by an actual medical condition (Diabetes, SSE, etc.) or a psychological issue (or hell, even an addiction to fat laced foods, something that has been scientifically proven can happen), wouldn't you then qualify for state provided health care? Or are you going to continue to revert to what privatized health care does, which is to say "You're a burden to costs, so fuck you."

Your post, referring to people who are obese as fatties, saying they should just lose out shows how uneducated about the issue you are. Go away, get educated, then get back to me.

Wow, someone sounds angry.

The "well no one likes to be fat therefore it's not a choice" argument is children's logic. Working out and eating healthy is difficult and takes work, discipline and dedication. Not working out and eating whatever the hell you want takes none of these. Some people possess those aforementioned abilities as they relate to health and fitness, some do not.

To use "numbers" as you call them, the most generous estimate I've seen of the % of people in the US who have actual thyroid problems is around 16%, and bear in mind that some thyroid problems actually cause you to LOSE weight, so (again, being generous) this means only about 8% of obese people can blame it on being "glandular". Also, diabetes is usually CAUSED by being overweight, not the other way around. Also, asking obese people "why are you obese?" is worthless. Do you really think the majority of those who are that way due to poor eating and fitness habits are going to admit it?

It's spelled "Aryan", and I've been a fitness buff my entire life. I've probably been to the gym several thousand times in my life, and pretty much everytime I've gone there has been at least one overweight person in there. Guess how many times I've seen someone poke fun at the overweight person? Zero, zip, nada, never once seen it, so you can quit with the "we're persecuted at the gym!" routine. And even if it were true, you don't even need a gym, there's a million exercises you can do with little to no equipment in your living room. To expand on that even further, it barely matters because weight loss is far more about diet than exercise.

If obesity was nothing but luck of the draw, then obesity rates would have remained steady throughout history and we would see comparable rates throughout the world, but neither of these are true.

If you want to eat whatever the hell you want and not work out and increase your risk to develop knee and back issues, type II diabetes, heart disease, stroke, ED, high cholesterol, or any of the dozens of other things that have been scientifically proven to be associated with obesity, then knock yourself out, I don't care. But don't expect me to pay for it.

 

[mad825]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Picking straws mate, picking straws.

Accroding the the BBC, 30% of the population are overweight and has "one of the highest obesity rates in the developed world". It's called an image problem.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Policies have changed and his workers visa is expiring, he is not a resident here, nor a citizen. It sucks, but the rules are the rules here (as much as I dislike a lot of what National is trying to do in this country...) and they say he has to go. I feel for the guy, I do. But he was never a resident, so if he has to go back, he has to go back.

 

[uchytjes]

Slightly conflicted about this. It seems like our immigration services fucked up on this one.

On one hand, health problems probably should be a reason to deny someone a work visa. Furthermore, I would understand if immigration services wanted to tighten up during a recession. That would be commonplace, I think.

On the other, it seems like the line is drawn pretty arbitrarily, considering he's lost a non-trivial amount of weight. The article doesn't tell us about any health complications he's had in recent years though, which would give him less sympathy. But it does seem to say that he hasn't been given any warnings about it (although I don't know how often warnings are given in lieu of just kicking people out).

Edit: This article seems to have a picture of the man, rather than a stock photo of "omg fat person":

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8970736/Too-fat-to-live-here

He doesn't look extraordinarily unhealthy.

...he looks like that? Like hell he's unhealthy. Pretty much anyone 30+ years of age here in the midwest U.S. looks like that, even the women!

 

[chozo_hybrid]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Picking straws mate, picking straws.

Accroding the the BBC, 30% of the population are overweight and has "one of the highest obesity rates in the developed world". It's called an image problem.

That and there's not even 5 million of us, it's easy to hit high percentages on things and make it sound extremely bad (not saying it isn't but I think you know what I mean).

 

[mysecondlife]

Yo momma so fat, she got kicked out of New Zealand.

Sucks for the guy though. Thank goodness I'm not fat to be banned from visiting NZ (eyeroll)

 

[Yan007]

I've been around 250-290 (fluctuating) for around 8 years or so now, and I've never had to take any kind of medicine or cost my state any amount of money. In fact, the state I live in loves to take around $100 a month from me...

The assumption that being slightly overweight makes you useless and dependent on aid is silly. Clinically 250+ may be 'morbidly obese' but that's just an opinion by some doctor. Doctors aren't infallible, and my healthiness despite my weight (and shortness) is proof of that.

A little fat is normal. In fact, being 'perfect' is abnormal, but doctors call it healthy. Everything is backwards.

Besides, most people only maintain a slim appearance by under-eating. Most human beings gain weight in modern societies due to extreme lacks of exercise. And yet, they are just as un-healthy as 'fat' people, because they are sedentary just the same.

I don't want to specifically single you out, but you chose to use yourself as an example and I happen to disagree with your argument. No offense intended. Being fat does not take anything from the qualities you have, but at face value people will be less likely to associate positive attributes to you.

You are right that being slightly overweight does not make you useless, nor being properly overweight for that matter. The main issues with "overweightism" is that it affects your life negatively both physically and psychologically.

Being fat and not working to reverse this situation projects the idea that gluttony and sloth are positive attributes. Look back at what you wrote about perfection being unhealthy and doctors not being infallible. Of course perfection is impossible and doctors can make mistakes, but we have science to back up some claims and being overweight is scientifically proven to be a huge risk for your health, all other things being equal. You have every rights to being overweight, especially if you are in a private-payer hospital system where the costs fall squarely upon your shoulders, but please don't try to make it sound like being fat is a positive attribute.

Also, like I wrote earlier, the average person will not be attracted to fat people for many reasons (physical, psychological, social and so on). For example, when I was fat I did not realize how bad I smelled or how difficult it was for me to be perfectly clean. I'm sure I'm not the only ex-fat who will also be able to confirm that being slimmer positively changes your though process (or psyche, whatever). I am much more confident than before and much healthier as well. Walking outside will not tire me anymore: as a matter of fact, I run 5 miles 4 days a week after my weightlifting splits. Being healthier, stronger and more energetic, I have what I need to motivate my students (I'm a teacher) to become the best people they can be and I've helped quite a few turn their lifestyles around by helping them understand food and exercise and their effects on one's health. If I have to, I take them to the gym myself to start their training and find them a good trainer.

By the way, you may be taller than 6ft and muscular, but I'm not counting on it (I'm sure you said you're short). As such, I'm confident you're very fat. When you say "a little fat is normal" I seriously hope you are not including yourself. 15% is a little fat. 20% is fat. 21-30% is a lot of fat. Over 30% is atrociously abnormal.

 

[Yan007]

It's spelled "Aryan", and I've been a fitness buff my entire life. I've probably been to the gym several thousand times in my life, and pretty much everytime I've gone there has been at least one overweight person in there. Guess how many times I've seen someone poke fun at the overweight person? Zero, zip, nada, never once seen it, so you can quit with the "we're persecuted at the gym!" routine. And even if it were true, you don't even need a gym, there's a million exercises you can do with little to no equipment in your living room. To expand on that even further, it barely matters because weight loss is far more about diet than exercise.

I just want to say I absolutely agree with your entire post, but even more with this part. When I was fat, I thought people were judging me when I was in the gym. I came to realize now that most of them were probably hopeful that I would stick with it (like I am when I see a new face in the gym) or are simply jaded and thought I would quit after a week or a month.

I'd say if you're serious about being in good shape then you'll find that the people at the gym will support you and your goals 110%.

 

[maninahat]

Unless he's like 5'5" or less, 286 isn't that fat. I mean yeah it's still pretty obese, probably even classified as morbidly obese, but there are people in the US and the UK who are over 300 and even 500 pounds. So yeah he's pretty fat, but there are much fatter people. And I find it hard to believe there's nobody in New Zealand over 300 pounds.

New Zealand are very strict on their immigration policies.

Just for clarification here, they're not renewing his visa due to his health, not his weight, as OP seems intent on spinning it. There is a difference. Weight is fairly arbitrary (up to a point), health on the other hand is likely to factor substantially in the cost of that individual to the state.

I would argue you're trying to spin it in the opposite direction, it is quite obvious about his weight. They or you can say it's about general health but it's obvious, especially after listing his weight, that that is what it is actually about.

Being morbidly obese means his weight will affect his health and that has significant cost implications. Just simple cholesterol-lowering drugs can cost anything from $300 to $1700 per year.

Actually not necessarily. I weigh close to what this man does, a little less but not much and I have no health problems associated with it, I still get up and do things, I take care of my home and my animals and anytime my family is doing hard manual labor, they need only ask and I'm there to help. John Pinette, a comedian who I would guess weighs 500 lbs has reported that he sees many doctors and nutritionists and he has both good cholesterol and blood pressure.

It all boils down to how lucky you are, same with just about anything. My mother and her younger sister, both smokers for many years. My mother has smoked more and for longer than my aunt, but my aunt is the one who developed lung cancer and died a week or so after her diagnosis.

If this man had been there for six years, had been losing weight, and wasn't already filing for diabetes or cholesterol reducing drugs or something else of the sort (evidenced by the fact that he was said to be a high risk for, not an actual patient of diabetes, hypertension, and heart disease), isn't likely to be a drain. I don't see why they'd be kicking him out NOW unless there was some form of policy change or someone new making the decisions of who stays and who goes.

Statistically, the longer he remains there, the greater the odds are that he will need healthcare. People who are heavily overweight are at a much higher risk of suffering from certain conditions in later life, so as far as the immigration office see it, they are dealing with a ticking time bomb that'll cost them a fortune in medical bills. Of course, he might actually live to be 100 and be an exemplary model of human health, but the visa office isn't planning to bet on it.

Yes and I can understand that, not necessarily sure if it's right or wrong or just a gray area, but it seems really wierd that they would do it six years AFTER he first moved there when he's been losing weight. If they had been consistent from the get-go, I would feel sad for the guy, but say "well that's their rules and unfortunately that's how you gotta play if you want to live there"...but doing it now after so long...something seems off is all.

I agree they could have been a bit more compassionate about it. After six years, a person tends to be well established into where they are living. Think of all the friends and people close to him he now has to leave behind. I understand the visa office can't afford to think that way (otherwise they would never reject visa applications) but I don't have to like the ruthlessness of the process.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Sucks for the guy though. Thank goodness I'm not fat to be banned from visiting NZ (eyeroll)

I donm't think it affects people vising, but those that plan to work or live here I guess, I dunno. I'm not pleased with it as a NZ citizen and I'm not overweight.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Are we sure that's not a headline from Viz?

 

[Gor Kur]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Not his state. He is in another country where he is not a citizen.