Man "too fat" to be allowed to live in New Zealand

[Gor Kur]

Slightly conflicted about this. It seems like our immigration services fucked up on this one.

On one hand, health problems probably should be a reason to deny someone a work visa. Furthermore, I would understand if immigration services wanted to tighten up during a recession. That would be commonplace, I think.

On the other, it seems like the line is drawn pretty arbitrarily, considering he's lost a non-trivial amount of weight. The article doesn't tell us about any health complications he's had in recent years though, which would give him less sympathy. But it does seem to say that he hasn't been given any warnings about it (although I don't know how often warnings are given in lieu of just kicking people out).

Edit: This article seems to have a picture of the man, rather than a stock photo of "omg fat person":

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8970736/Too-fat-to-live-here

He doesn't look extraordinarily unhealthy.

...he looks like that? Like hell he's unhealthy. Pretty much anyone 30+ years of age here in the midwest U.S. looks like that, even the women!

That's obese. Just because everyone in your community is obese it does not change the medical definition or risks of obesity.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Fair enough. For the majority of fat people it's a lifestyle choice and so they should lose out on state health care. If they can't be fucked to look after themselves why should the tax payer?

Are you fucking serious? Numbers, please, saying that a majority of obese people are that way for kicks.

Have you ever had to grow up a child without a strong metabolism? Judging by how cold and heartless you come off, I'm going to guess no. So let me educate you.

While a child, you get absolutely humiliated at every moment by your arian race of skinny people. When you try to work it off like a normal person, the Third Reich of Healthiness continue to make fun of you because of how stupid you look when an obese person tries to work out. All the bullying then leads to a bad self esteem. Next, because of this self esteem, you begin to develop an innate fear of people in general, as well as a fear of even leaving your own house. This, combined with the fact that food at this point has turned into a drug, leads to a massive gain in weight. But its okay, because its a life style choice, rather than a developed psychological problem, which is probably closer to what the obesity epidemic boils down to.

Now, let me ask you a question. If a person's obesity is caused by either by an actual medical condition (Diabetes, SSE, etc.) or a psychological issue (or hell, even an addiction to fat laced foods, something that has been scientifically proven can happen), wouldn't you then qualify for state provided health care? Or are you going to continue to revert to what privatized health care does, which is to say "You're a burden to costs, so fuck you."

Your post, referring to people who are obese as fatties, saying they should just lose out shows how uneducated about the issue you are. Go away, get educated, then get back to me.

Wow, someone sounds angry.

The "well no one likes to be fat therefore it's not a choice" argument is children's logic. Working out and eating healthy is difficult and takes work, discipline and dedication. Not working out and eating whatever the hell you want takes none of these. Some people possess those aforementioned abilities as they relate to health and fitness, some do not.

To use "numbers" as you call them, the most generous estimate I've seen of the % of people in the US who have actual thyroid problems is around 16%, and bear in mind that some thyroid problems actually cause you to LOSE weight, so (again, being generous) this means only about 8% of obese people can blame it on being "glandular". Also, diabetes is usually CAUSED by being overweight, not the other way around. Also, asking obese people "why are you obese?" is worthless. Do you really think the majority of those who are that way due to poor eating and fitness habits are going to admit it?

It's spelled "Aryan", and I've been a fitness buff my entire life. I've probably been to the gym several thousand times in my life, and pretty much everytime I've gone there has been at least one overweight person in there. Guess how many times I've seen someone poke fun at the overweight person? Zero, zip, nada, never once seen it, so you can quit with the "we're persecuted at the gym!" routine. And even if it were true, you don't even need a gym, there's a million exercises you can do with little to no equipment in your living room. To expand on that even further, it barely matters because weight loss is far more about diet than exercise.

If obesity was nothing but luck of the draw, then obesity rates would have remained steady throughout history and we would see comparable rates throughout the world, but neither of these are true.

If you want to eat whatever the hell you want and not work out and increase your risk to develop knee and back issues, type II diabetes, heart disease, stroke, ED, high cholesterol, or any of the dozens of other things that have been scientifically proven to be associated with obesity, then knock yourself out, I don't care. But don't expect me to pay for it.

"Don't expect me to pay for it" here meaning, don't expect to be allowed to live in the same country as me? More than a little bit harsh, isn't it? Especially when the man in question has lived there for 6 years. This is the problem with socialized medicine, the consequences of your actions are no longer your own. But considering the way socialized medicine works, isn't paying for other peoples' things a given?

 

[Yan007]

"Don't expect me to pay for it" here meaning, don't expect to be allowed to live in the same country as me? More than a little bit harsh, isn't it? Especially when the man in question has lived there for 6 years. This is the problem with socialized medicine, the consequences of your actions are no longer your own. But considering the way socialized medicine works, isn't paying for other peoples' things a given?

Devil's advocate here: If paying for others is a given in a socialized system because it benefits society, shouldn't we also be allowed to make people change their habits (food, exercise and so on) in order to benefit society?

 

[P.Tsunami]

Fair enough. For the majority of fat people it's a lifestyle choice and so they should lose out on state health care. If they can't be fucked to look after themselves why should the tax payer?

Are you fucking serious? Numbers, please, saying that a majority of obese people are that way for kicks.

Have you ever had to grow up a child without a strong metabolism? Judging by how cold and heartless you come off, I'm going to guess no. So let me educate you.

While a child, you get absolutely humiliated at every moment by your arian race of skinny people. When you try to work it off like a normal person, the Third Reich of Healthiness continue to make fun of you because of how stupid you look when an obese person tries to work out. All the bullying then leads to a bad self esteem. Next, because of this self esteem, you begin to develop an innate fear of people in general, as well as a fear of even leaving your own house. This, combined with the fact that food at this point has turned into a drug, leads to a massive gain in weight. But its okay, because its a life style choice, rather than a developed psychological problem, which is probably closer to what the obesity epidemic boils down to.

Now, let me ask you a question. If a person's obesity is caused by either by an actual medical condition (Diabetes, SSE, etc.) or a psychological issue (or hell, even an addiction to fat laced foods, something that has been scientifically proven can happen), wouldn't you then qualify for state provided health care? Or are you going to continue to revert to what privatized health care does, which is to say "You're a burden to costs, so fuck you."

Your post, referring to people who are obese as fatties, saying they should just lose out shows how uneducated about the issue you are. Go away, get educated, then get back to me.

If you want to eat whatever the hell you want and not work out and increase your risk to develop knee and back issues, type II diabetes, heart disease, stroke, ED, high cholesterol, or any of the dozens of other things that have been scientifically proven to be associated with obesity, then knock yourself out, I don't care. But don't expect me to pay for it.

I'm not saying you're not making some decent points, but Christ on a pogo stick that's one cherry picked argument. The main point of that post is that psychological issues play heavily into many people's obesity; not that you'd know it from your response, since you entirely neglect to acknowledge that.

 

[P.Tsunami]

On one hand, I'd reiterate what several people have already pointed out; this isn't directly about the man's weight, it's about his overall health situation as evaluated by a medical professional. This isn't NZ hating fatties, it's NZ having an immigration policy designed to minimize health care costs for immigrants. Makes sense from a national perspective.

On the other, being a natural born citizen of any country is a lottery. I'm leaning towards saying that the ability to relocate should be a fundamental liberal right.

 

[Bat Vader]

Wait, instead of just not renewing his visa couldn't they instead give him an ultimatum saying that he has to lose a certain amount of weight in a certain amount of time and keep it off and then they will renew it? The guy lost 30kg already. I'm certain if he had incentive too he could lose even more.

 

[Do4600]

From the article:
"It is important that all migrants have an acceptable standard of health to minimise costs and demands on New Zealand's health services"

Sorry, but this is the dark side of universal healthcare.

When the Government foots the bill (well, in reality the taxpayers do), it opens up the floodgates for them to bring in additional regulations and rules aimed at people's personal habits, because now your personal habits actually do cost everyone something. Logically speaking, they can then regulate everything from cigarettes to fast food to alcohol to soda to even your weight under the basic premise of "well this is no longer your personal choice because everyone has to bear the burden of your unhealthy habits".

This may be so, but there is already a dark side to these freedoms we have as well. Have you ever seen a six pack a day smoker? A true alcoholic? A morbidly obese person? It's like seeing the physical embodiment of misery, consummate addiction is the worst face humanity has besides cruelty.

We're not talking about people who take a smoke break every two hours, or somebody who gets two big macs, a large fries and large soda on the way home from work twice a week, or even people who get drunk every weekend and have three beers every other day.

We're talking about people who wake up and light a cigarette and who are able to pass that one light from cigarette to cigarette until they go to sleep, people who sit down for lunch and eat two whole canned turkeys and wash it down with an entire panned lasagna and people who have technically never been sober for more than a day days since 1987. These people should have to pay extra for their health care.

When a quarter of the people I see on a day to day basis are so fat that 153 years ago they could have been paid handsomely to sit in a circus tent and have on-lookers gawp at them for a penny a head, it might be time to do something about it.

153 years ago everyone was starving and skinny. Its was 1860, the age where fat was the in thing because it meant you were rich.

I mean, come on. Get a better argument than that.

No. Weighing more than 350 pounds meant you were so rare that people would pay to see you, you were a curiosity worth exhibiting, even the rich were only overweight. Also, relatively few people were starving in the United States in 1860, they just didn't eat until they could no longer stand or breathe.

Also, The United States already pays the health bills of the morbidly obese; they are covered under Medicare and receive social security benefits under disability. Any 5'10" 320 lbs man can already get government healthcare because they can't be bothered to stop eating after their third helping and exercise every couple of days. Or even worse: http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Am-Into-Weightgain/238850

Nearly 70% of the population of the United States is overweight, 35% of the population are obese. When these people's organs start shutting down it's going to take thousands or tens of thousands of people paying taxes to keep one of them alive. It's just as bad using private insurance, when the population starts to get sick and their organs clog with the liquid shit in these peoples veins the insurance rates will increase to the point where nobody will be able to sustain them, the cost of healthcare will increase dramatically. It's already happening, the more unhealthy we are as a nation the worse off everybody is.

The United States consumes 17.6% of it's GDP in healthcare costs, or roughly 2.760 trillion dollars annually.

Now imagine how much that would be if 30% of the population were overweight and less than 10% were obese as was the case in 1950.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Way to spin the story OP, according to Stuff http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/8970736/Too-fat-to-live-here he already has long term problems with his knee which could potentially cost $20,000 to replace.

It sucks that his Visa isn't being renewed even after he lost 30 kilos but it looks as though his previous weight did some damage already, I'm just confused as to how he got a work Visa in the first place because lets face it 160 kilos isn't healthy.

 

[xPixelatedx]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

That's a pretty big stretch from this one story... I don't remember anyone being kicked out of Canada for that. Or (wait for it) Hawaii: a state that does have universal healthcare. In fact, if I recall correctly, a fat and unhealthy person by the name of Rush Limbaugh actually flew there to get free health care when something was wrong with him. Not only did they not kick him out, they did help him.

 

[shootthebandit]

"Don't expect me to pay for it" here meaning, don't expect to be allowed to live in the same country as me? More than a little bit harsh, isn't it? Especially when the man in question has lived there for 6 years. This is the problem with socialized medicine, the consequences of your actions are no longer your own. But considering the way socialized medicine works, isn't paying for other peoples' things a given?

Devil's advocate here: If paying for others is a given in a socialized system because it benefits society, shouldn't we also be allowed to make people change their habits (food, exercise and so on) in order to benefit society?

The consequences of your actions are no longer your own? What a dumb thing to say. If you are a citizen of that country you will still get healthcare. You will be put on the waiting list for a new liver if you are a homelesss alcoholic. You will still get treatment for lung cancer if you smoke 60 a day

In britain obesity is a massive issue and a huge drain on resources. Im sorry to say it but if you let yourself get to 160kgs then you clearly need someone to tell you the fucking consequences. I weigh around 70-80 kgs and im not underweight or malnurished so explain to me how a man who weighs TWICE as much as i do to be a healthy individual. Explain to me how someone the size of TWO seperate health human men knows the consequences of his actions

Im not making fun of fat people but it is a problem. Its on the same level as drug abuse and alcoholism

 

[Woodsey]

This is the problem with socialized medicine, the consequences of your actions are no longer your own.

Yes, but thankfully in America people are free to beg for money in their place of work so that they can afford to be treated for surgery that will prevent them from being crippled and incapable of doing their job. So much better.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.297874-Extra-Credits-Artist-Amazed-at-Fan-Support

 

[Something Amyss]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

That explains why America is so fat. Canadia is driving all the fatties out of the country and into the states!

 

[shootthebandit]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

That explains why America is so fat. Canadia is driving all the fatties out of the country and into the states!

This is the reason people are so fat because as i mentioned in my previous post people dont accept the responsibility for their actions they blame everyone else for our problems. Lets blame "communism" for the fact we are all fat

Off topic: i cant believe there are people here who are genuinely defending a system that promotes forking out hundreds of thousands of pounds (which most people cant obtain) to get an operation which could save thier life, so they have to go to other people and charity to raise the money (which by definition is social fucking medicine). Perhaps america could spent less tax money on building nuclear powered dildos to butt fuck other countries with and spend it on educating and caring for thier citizens so they dont end up being fat, lazy, shit for brains, greedy bastards

 

[SciMal]

...he looks like that? Like hell he's unhealthy. Pretty much anyone 30+ years of age here in the midwest U.S. looks like that, even the women!

That's because the US Midwest is one of the unhealthiest areas in the country, second to the South. It doesn't mean being that heavy is OK, it means that the norm has now become unhealthy.

 

[SciMal]

I've been around 250-290 (fluctuating) for around 8 years or so now, and I've never had to take any kind of medicine or cost my state any amount of money.

...yet. If you were born in '87 (as your username suggests, but does not specify) then you're a whole 26 years old. Aside from Type II Diabetes (which has more to do with sugar intake than obesity, but they correlate very well) you won't see the side-effects of your weight for another decade or so.

Specifically the cartilage on your joints (especially knees) is wearing out A LOT faster than if you were 185lbs.

Then there's the stress on your cardiovascular system, which is nice and strong at 26, but by the time you hit 50 or so you'll have the heart of a 70yr old with your current weight. It needs to bump more blood, and to do that it gets bigger. Unlike every other muscle in the body, though, a large heart is a bad thing.

The assumption that being slightly overweight makes you useless and dependent on aid is silly. Clinically 250+ may be 'morbidly obese' but that's just an opinion by some doctor. Doctors aren't infallible, and my healthiness despite my weight (and shortness) is proof of that.

Doctors are not infallible, but they are exceedingly well informed. They work with probability because hard 'n fast "If X then Y and you die" stuff is actually surprisingly rare when it comes to medicine. There's enough variation in the human genome that almost every disease follows a curve distribution.

So all you're saying is that you're in the 2% of morbidly obese people who have healthy vitals and cholesterol. You can't apply that to everybody, though. As they say, "The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.'"

A little fat is normal.

Definitely. For both sexes, some fat is healthy and can contribute to longevity. Visceral fat (around the organs) is very unhealthy, though, and is the first to go when you lose weight.

"Healthy" fat is between 12% and 16% for men, I think, and higher for women (because boobs and less skeletal muscle).

In fact, being 'perfect' is abnormal, but doctors call it healthy.

"Perfect" is not a medical term, it is a culturally subjective one. There isn't a "perfect" bodyfat %. Societies have consistently shown that what they consider "attractive" is whatever it takes wealth/resources to achieve. A thousand years ago being overweight was attractive because you had more than enough food to eat and lots of leisure time. Three hundred years ago being ghostly pale was totally in because it meant you weren't toiling in the sun. Fifty years ago getting a tan suddenly became popular as it became a symbol for the jet-set. Today, having the 6-pack abs or the thigh-gap is attractive because it means you're not stuck in a cubicle doing work and you have the ability to exercise consistently.

Doctors don't give a shit what the "perfect" body of the moment is; they give a shit about the numbers that come out from your examination.

Everything is backwards.

No, it's not, but you've done a great job convincing yourself that it is.

Besides, most people only maintain a slim appearance by under-eating. Most human beings gain weight in modern societies due to extreme lacks of exercise. And yet, they are just as un-healthy as 'fat' people, because they are sedentary just the same.

A low calorie diet will result in a slim appearance. Fit or athletic bodies require exercise.

Yes, sedentary lifestyles - regardless of diet - are generally considered to be unhealthy. However, you're wrong when you say "just as unhealthy". In the majority of cases, the person who is sedentary AND a normal weight or slightly lower than normal weight will be healthier than a person who is sedentary and obese. There's just more stress put on the obese person's body at all times.

Don't get fooled. Being overweight isn't necessarily unhealthy, but those are RARE cases. Just because exceptions exist does not mean the majority rule is invalid.

 

[Something Amyss]

This is the reason people are so fat because as i mentioned in my previous post people dont accept the responsibility for their actions they blame everyone else for our problems. Lets blame "communism" for the fact we are all fat

The reason people are so fat is because you failed to take a clear joke at face value? That's certainly an interesting theory, but I think it might have to do more with food intake and activity levels.

Off topic: i cant believe there are people here who are genuinely defending a system that promotes forking out hundreds of thousands of pounds (which most people cant obtain) to get an operation which could save thier life, so they have to go to other people and charity to raise the money (which by definition is social fucking medicine).

Best system in the world![footnote]Also not to be taken seriously.[/footnote]

Perhaps america could spent less tax money on building nuclear powered dildos to butt fuck other countries with and spend it on educating and caring for thier citizens so they dont end up being fat, lazy, shit for brains, greedy bastards

There really is no profit in a smart voter base. There's also no profit in a healthy nation.[footnote]Sadly, this is not a joke.[/footnote]

And please, don't cast stones from a poorly worded, poorly spelled, poorly thought-out post.

Also, I don't know why you're ranting at me. I'm in a socialist state receiving socialist health care. For the record, it's probably the best thing that's happened to my health.

But since you brought up your previous post....

The consequences of your actions are no longer your own? What a dumb thing to say.

If by "dumb," you mean "accurate," then yes. It is a very dumb thing to say.

The thing is, it's completely accurate. The burden of the individual is on the state, who also bears the consequences. I'm not even sure how you can deny this.

If you are a citizen of that country you will still get healthcare. You will be put on the waiting list for a new liver if you are a homelesss alcoholic. You will still get treatment for lung cancer if you smoke 60 a day

And thus, the consequences are society's. Seems like you agree with something you just called "dumb."

 

[Something Amyss]

I've been around 250-290 (fluctuating) for around 8 years or so now, and I've never had to take any kind of medicine or cost my state any amount of money.

So far. As SciMal has pointed out, that is likely to change. People in their teens and twenties are a lot tougher than even a decade later.

The assumption that being slightly overweight makes you useless and dependent on aid is silly.

Slightly is bullshit. It's called morbidly obese for a reason. More on that in just a second.

Clinically 250+ may be 'morbidly obese' but that's just an opinion by some doctor. Doctors aren't infallible, and my healthiness despite my weight (and shortness) is proof of that.

Actually, no. It's the "opinion" of most doctors. Most nutritionists, most science on the matter, most research into statistics, etc. Doctors aren't infallible, but tend to know more than you. Beating the odds doesn't make you proof that the odds are wrong.

The fact is, my friend, being morbidly obese dramatically increases your odds of all sorts of health issues, from chronic pain to diabetes, stroke and heart failure. The fact that you insist you're healthy doesn't even mean you are, unless you get routine checkups. A lot of Americans are ticking time bombs. Hell, a lot of the WEST is, period.

A little fat is normal. In fact, being 'perfect' is abnormal, but doctors call it healthy. Everything is backwards.

See, here's the problem. Failure to understand what "normal" is. A little fat IS normal. That's factored into BMI, height/weight, and other assessments. What you're talking about, at your weight (and inferred height), is not a little fat. It's a lot of fat. I should weigh less than you, and I'm 6'5" tall and have a broad frame. There is a small, borderline insignificant possibility that you are actually perfectly healthy, but that would require a ridiculous amount of muscle mass.

In any event, your failure to understand what "normal" and "perfect" pertain to are at issue here.

Perhaps you will rank among the statistically insignificant number of people with no health issues, but why would you want to gamble on your very life with it?

Besides, most people only maintain a slim appearance by under-eating. Most human beings gain weight in modern societies due to extreme lacks of exercise. And yet, they are just as un-healthy as 'fat' people, because they are sedentary just the same.

They're not "just as unhealthy." Being sedentary carries additional risks for any group, but it is compounded with being overweight.

 

[Vareoth]

So apparently this is why universal healthcare is soo much better. If the state deems that your health is too much of a drain on their resources they just force you to move out. Instead of just being denied treatment you get denied treatment, your place to live, and your livelihood. Yes, much better.

Good job finding a way to twist this story to fit your own personal political preference. Very mature.

OT: New Zealand is weird like that. You should look up their laws on uranium. Quite funny in my opinion.

 

[shootthebandit]

This is the reason people are so fat because as i mentioned in my previous post people dont accept the responsibility for their actions they blame everyone else for our problems. Lets blame "communism" for the fact we are all fat

The reason people are so fat is because you failed to take a clear joke at face value? That's certainly an interesting theory, but I think it might have to do more with food intake and activity levels.

I knew it was a joke but people do make excuses. For example if you watch that show "the biggest loser" (yes i know its a horrible program which essentially makes fun of fat people) but everyone on that show has an excuse

Perhaps america could spent less tax money on building nuclear powered dildos to butt fuck other countries with and spend it on educating and caring for thier citizens so they dont end up being fat, lazy, shit for brains, greedy bastards

1) There really is no profit in a smart voter base. There's also no profit in a healthy nation.[footnote]Sadly, this is not a joke.[/footnote]

2) And please, don't cast stones from a poorly worded, poorly spelled, poorly thought-out post.

3) Also, I don't know why you're ranting at me. I'm in a socialist state receiving socialist health care. For the record, it's probably the best thing that's happened to my health.

1) sadly this is true although over here a lot of money is pumped into schools and hospitals and welfare
2) i cant deny that... although the part about lazy, shit for brains was exaggeration
3) i wasnt exactly ranting at you. Just ranting in general....im glad some states have seen sense

The consequences of your actions are no longer your own? What a dumb thing to say.

If by "dumb," you mean "accurate," then yes. It is a very dumb thing to say.

The thing is, it's completely accurate. The burden of the individual is on the state, who also bears the consequences. I'm not even sure how you can deny this.

yes the burden is on the government but the consequence is still that of the individual. The government wont simply deny you treatment on your liver because you are an alcoholic. The post i was replying to stated that the state healthcare dictated the consequences of your actions by denying care which isnt true.

By gaining weight the consequences is obviously poor health which is not anyone elses consequence but your own. Granted any treatment you require for this is funded by your peers so in a sense you are correct as the financial consequence is shared. But the physical consequence is still yours

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Fair enough. For the majority of fat people it's a lifestyle choice and so they should lose out on state health care. If they can't be fucked to look after themselves why should the tax payer?

Are you fucking serious? Numbers, please, saying that a majority of obese people are that way for kicks.

Have you ever had to grow up a child without a strong metabolism? Judging by how cold and heartless you come off, I'm going to guess no. So let me educate you.

While a child, you get absolutely humiliated at every moment by your arian race of skinny people. When you try to work it off like a normal person, the Third Reich of Healthiness continue to make fun of you because of how stupid you look when an obese person tries to work out. All the bullying then leads to a bad self esteem. Next, because of this self esteem, you begin to develop an innate fear of people in general, as well as a fear of even leaving your own house. This, combined with the fact that food at this point has turned into a drug, leads to a massive gain in weight. But its okay, because its a life style choice, rather than a developed psychological problem, which is probably closer to what the obesity epidemic boils down to.

Now, let me ask you a question. If a person's obesity is caused by either by an actual medical condition (Diabetes, SSE, etc.) or a psychological issue (or hell, even an addiction to fat laced foods, something that has been scientifically proven can happen), wouldn't you then qualify for state provided health care? Or are you going to continue to revert to what privatized health care does, which is to say "You're a burden to costs, so fuck you."

Your post, referring to people who are obese as fatties, saying they should just lose out shows how uneducated about the issue you are. Go away, get educated, then get back to me.

If you want to eat whatever the hell you want and not work out and increase your risk to develop knee and back issues, type II diabetes, heart disease, stroke, ED, high cholesterol, or any of the dozens of other things that have been scientifically proven to be associated with obesity, then knock yourself out, I don't care. But don't expect me to pay for it.

I'm not saying you're not making some decent points, but Christ on a pogo stick that's one cherry picked argument. The main point of that post is that psychological issues play heavily into many people's obesity; not that you'd know it from your response, since you entirely neglect to acknowledge that.

Let's say we pass a law that says the Government will only pay for your gastric bypass surgery if you can prove that you're actually addicted to food. How are you going to enforce it? Will they need a note from a Psychologist? So now the Government has to fund God only knows how many people to go see Shrinks so they can get a note saying they're actually addicted to food. And Lord knows how many people will attempt to fake this so they can receive free surgery.

All this adds up to higher and higher costs for everyone, especially in an Universal Healthcare system. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the US system is awesome (it's far from it), but there is no perfect system when it comes to healthcare, and I think this whole issue illustrates very well some of the big problems with universal healthcare, notably in this case that it greatly expands the Government's power because they can now say "your personal choices are no longer your personal choices because they affect everyone".

Additionally, my other big point is that I firmly believe (and Yan007 agreed with me above) that a large part of the "I can't go to the gym because the fit people will make fun of me!" is bollocks and is in the person's head. I mean hell, here in the States, one of the most popular shows on television is "The Biggest Loser", a show about fat people losing weight, and people watch it because it's inspiring, not because they think it's a comedy. iIf people want to claim psychological disorders from made up oppression, fine, but don't expect me to pay for it.

On a completely unrelated note, these God damn expanding adds right near where you write your post is seriously one of the most annoying things I've ever dealt with. Escapist, are you trying to piss us off?