Martial Sport Vrs Art

[Tanakh]

-snip-

Do you even lift bro?

Sorry but your post sounds like someone that never did Martial Disciplines seriously, imagination, creativity and adaptation are at the core of them.

Also Martial Art is just a recent (bad) translation of 武術. Don't know any serious practicioner that gives a rat ass over the word "art" being there.

Dunno man, your post sounds amazingly noobish in every possible aspect, but it might just be me.

 

[The]

I always think of it this way. Dancing is a form of art, no? I practice Taekwondo, which, both in the movement patterns and competitive sparring areas are like another branch of dancing... well, self-defense dancing. And so what if martial arts has predefined rules and no "original ideas". Some of the best art, like books, movies, paintings are made under predefined rules (lets say a certain style, like cubism, classical) and borrows or takes from the ideas of others (genres conventions of books and movies, or a similar art style).

And what is this you're saying about western martial arts being just ideas? Are you saying boxing has no set technique? That fencing is so out of the box and original? It'\s ideas have been passed down from generations, so its not that "original".

 

[mooncalf]

Everyone has already pointed out that art is not so easily defined, and no human activity easily excluded. I can only add that no MA can be performed identically by each individual practitioner, the art is in the embodiment of principles you only realise through diligence and patience.

 

[GonzoGamer]

I kind of felt the same way after studying karate for a little while.
After reading some of the stuff Bruce Lee wrote, I decided to study Jeet Kun Do which is all about how every individual has their own style. We still studied the other styles but each of us adapted what was useful.

 

[Coppernerves]

*snop*

*snop*
They are art in the fact that they are interpretive and each artist has his own techniques and moves. Advanced artists utilize many different techniques from different styles found all around the world to achieve a style that is as unique to them as Van Gogh's brush strokes are to him.

The one questionable aspect of Martial Arts being art is how does it effect the emotion of the onlooker...

It looks like most sports are art as well.

In a sparring competition, the audience (or onlooker) is the crowd of spectators.
In a fight, the audience is whoever you're defending yourself from.
In practice, (especially with internal styles), the audience is yourself.

I followed you up till the end, in practicing martial arts your mind is not reflecting, it is either empty or projecting. I think most sports are art as well. In fact I think just about anything can be classified as art, provided that art was its intent. Intent is one of the things that truly confuses me about art, and it makes me feel like a hypocrite at times. I think that art should be intentional, otherwise it is just an accident, but I also think things can be perceived as art that were not intended as such. I know that statement makes me look like a moron, but I just can't think of any other way to explain it. It is a very dual natured statement.

When you look at something not intended to be art, with the intent of seeing art, the experience you create for yourself is art. Right?

 

[lostlevel]

I'm a little confused by the phrasing, I did Taekwon-Do for several years and had aspects of both what I think your calling the sport and the martial art, these were aspects although the traditional part was the most important as it was how you progressed through the degrees and learnt the sport part was secondary, the fun bit. It was however important as apart from self defense it was only other way to apply in practice the skill learnt.

I think the confusion perhaps stems from more free form "martial arts" that have more of an emphasis on the practical rather than the theory. However I guess an Art can be whatever you make it.

 

[barbzilla]

*snop*

*snop*
They are art in the fact that they are interpretive and each artist has his own techniques and moves. Advanced artists utilize many different techniques from different styles found all around the world to achieve a style that is as unique to them as Van Gogh's brush strokes are to him.

The one questionable aspect of Martial Arts being art is how does it effect the emotion of the onlooker...

It looks like most sports are art as well.

In a sparring competition, the audience (or onlooker) is the crowd of spectators.
In a fight, the audience is whoever you're defending yourself from.
In practice, (especially with internal styles), the audience is yourself.

I followed you up till the end, in practicing martial arts your mind is not reflecting, it is either empty or projecting. I think most sports are art as well. In fact I think just about anything can be classified as art, provided that art was its intent. Intent is one of the things that truly confuses me about art, and it makes me feel like a hypocrite at times. I think that art should be intentional, otherwise it is just an accident, but I also think things can be perceived as art that were not intended as such. I know that statement makes me look like a moron, but I just can't think of any other way to explain it. It is a very dual natured statement.

When you look at something not intended to be art, with the intent of seeing art, the experience you create for yourself is art. Right?

Pretty much, but it isn't socially art. It is art to yourself. Meanwhile if the artist creates it with the intent of it being art, it is art. It may not be good art, or even competent art, but still art in one form or another.

 

[TheLion]

Its time for another topic that few will accept and many will hate.

I wanted to point out this distinction many classic martial "arts" are in fact not, they are martial sports. Most Asian Martial "Arts" are guilty of this; Taekwondo and Karate are great examples. Art involves the creation of something; it involves imagination and the ability to adapt. Sport involves a pre-created set of rules that one must follow in a physical activity.

Since Many Asian martial arts are based upon a pre-created set of rules that allow for no original ideas or imagination; they cannot be art.

If you want to see a true martial arts look at Krav Maga or western martial arts.


*Note:
Western martial arts have no official title, they are simply a conglomerate of medieval and renaissance style combat that has no fixed rules but only general ideas.

No.

Martial Arts, literally "The Arts of Mars", are disciplinary systems that teach us to use the human body effectively as a weapon. In that light, the fourth definition of "art" is more appropriate.

Art 4: a skill at doing a specific thing, typically acquired through practice.

If there is any criticism to make towards Eastern Martial Arts, it's in doubting the martial effectiveness of ritualized katas. IMO, it is the lack of martial efficacy that makes an Art a Sport.

EDIT:

I wouldn't consider Championship Boxing a Martial Art because the practitioners are limited to using only a handful of strikes. There are no trips, kicks, joint locks, strangling, and these rules lead to a the development of a "metagame" that exploits these rules to the fullest. MMA is closer, but there are still rules that screw with the "purity" of the Martial Art in question (the threat of eye-gouging, groin-crushing, and concealed knives/ daggers makes ground-fighting all but untenable for both parties in a pure martial art. Nevertheless ground fights are fairly common in MMA)