I really don't understand the appeal of Jessica Jones. As a character she is completely unlikeable. We get put into a world that expressly states that she is not a nice person and then expects the viewer to care that she killed someone while being mind controlled. I mean, she wasn't even told to kill the woman, just take her out and she interprets that as kill her? It is already established that Kilgrave has to be VERY specific or else his commands can have unintended consequences, and sometimes people can get out of them by using mental gymnastics. For a Netflix only show I was very disappointed with the quality and shoddy story writing.
Marvels Jessica Jones is just extreme feminism and blaxploitation (Spoilers)
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I really don't understand the appeal of Jessica Jones. As a character she is completely unlikeable. We get put into a world that expressly states that she is not a nice person and then expects the viewer to care that she killed someone while being mind controlled. I mean, she wasn't even told to kill the woman, just take her out and she interprets that as kill her? It is already established that Kilgrave has to be VERY specific or else his commands can have unintended consequences, and sometimes people can get out of them by using mental gymnastics. For a Netflix only show I was very disappointed with the quality and shoddy story writing.
As an anti-sjw (to provide context for my comments).
The show is fine and actually very good. You can point to some feminist-themes - or rather themes feminists like to claim ownership of, such as victim-hood, domestic-abuse, powerful women, etc. But the good/bad traits are all shared by both genders.
It's an anti-hero story, Jessica Jones has that "I'm pained and disagreeable" look permanently etched on her face, as appropriate for this genre.
If you're looking for something to complain about I'd say Maleficent was worse.
The show is fine and actually very good. You can point to some feminist-themes - or rather themes feminists like to claim ownership of, such as victim-hood, domestic-abuse, powerful women, etc. But the good/bad traits are all shared by both genders.
It's an anti-hero story, Jessica Jones has that "I'm pained and disagreeable" look permanently etched on her face, as appropriate for this genre.
If you're looking for something to complain about I'd say Maleficent was worse.
PS: I'm surprised people haven't pointed out that Simpson only went insane when he "red-pilled" himself
Wasn't the pill thing from the comics though? I'm pretty sure red pills were driving Nuke crazy before the Red Pills as a group were formed.wizzy555 said:
Actually, I think even before the Matrix movie which inspired the whole "red pill" concept, Nuke was taking red pills to increase his adrenaline and make him more aggressive.
Soooo, I guess that means Nuke is the original Red Piller, given his paranoid nature in comics, it would be ironically fitting, except he tends to just kill people rather than rant about women. They can't all be perfect comparisons I guess.
*snrk*
Ah man, it's always refreshing to see the bitter poison come boiling out of certain people.
I have no idea if the OP is serious or not. If he's just out to rustle jimmies then I congratulate him on a well crafted and well timed piece of work.
Ah man, it's always refreshing to see the bitter poison come boiling out of certain people.
I have no idea if the OP is serious or not. If he's just out to rustle jimmies then I congratulate him on a well crafted and well timed piece of work.
Ignoring the inflammatory OP, I want to add my 2 cents to the discussion on Jessica Jones' character. Honestly, I think she was a brilliantly written character. Yeah, there is some sub-par plot writing near the middle of show (basically she gets passed the idiot ball once or twice), but beyond that she was stellar. She's complex, imperfect, snarky, and above all else relatable. That's honestly not something many MCU characters have. Most of them seem so unreachable - larger than life. Jessica is just like us... if we had super strength.
She's also a sign that things are getting a lot better for female leads in action-oriented media. I'd call her a post-Whedon female character. She's not a "strong female" character, because quite frankly, she's a lot more interesting than that. She gets the shit kicked out of her, but she doesn't always tank it with a smirk on her face. She licks her wounds, flees, panics and eventually she finds the resolve she needs. It feels so much more authentic than the "strong female" characters we see so often these days.
She's also a sign that things are getting a lot better for female leads in action-oriented media. I'd call her a post-Whedon female character. She's not a "strong female" character, because quite frankly, she's a lot more interesting than that. She gets the shit kicked out of her, but she doesn't always tank it with a smirk on her face. She licks her wounds, flees, panics and eventually she finds the resolve she needs. It feels so much more authentic than the "strong female" characters we see so often these days.
I dont know if Jessica Jones is feminist propaganda. But I hate feminism and love Jessica Jones, so my intuition says it's not.
Also, we straight white males have an obligation to be above racial/gender/sexuality hypocrisy. If we say feminist, gays, and black people are being stupid for complaining about straight/white/male dominated shows/games, we cant turn around and complain about shows/games being dominated by gays/blacks/females.
Also, we straight white males have an obligation to be above racial/gender/sexuality hypocrisy. If we say feminist, gays, and black people are being stupid for complaining about straight/white/male dominated shows/games, we cant turn around and complain about shows/games being dominated by gays/blacks/females.
Yes, actually. XD Like, I'm not even kidding.Lightspeaker said:
Brits playing the role of a villain in stories can possibly be explained by the trend toward anti-intellectualism in movies. Since the protagonist of the story is sure to be a salt-of-the-earth everyman who doesn't have a lot of book smarts but has plenty of "common sense", he'll often be squared against by someone who represents those snooty, misguided intellectuals.
The British accent (well, I should say, the north Londoner accent... you don't see many Liverpudlian villains, after all) is regarded as a shorthand for "Intelligent, sophisticated, and snobbish" in the US, so giving a character such an accent is the perfect way to prime the audience to expect them to be villains.
It's kind of a back-handed compliment, in a way.
I think in Kilgrave's case it serves to support his image as "classy". He's not particularly smart or cunning (he's not stupid either), so I don't think he fits the trope perfectly.balladbird said:
Whenever I think of evil not-Brits I always think of the Empire from Star Wars. I wonder if they intend to continue with that.
True, I neglected to consider the application of the accent representing a kind of "upper class/ more sophisticated caste" to be rallied against, as well, which seems more apropos to the villain being discussed. I guess deep down we all want to make the 1% so shocked and aghast that they drop their monocles.Fappy said:
People have offered up plenty evidence to contradict what the OP has said. You guys are the ones choosing to ignore it. Honestly, given that the OP just signed up, made this thread, made some pitiful attempts at debate, and then vanished, you kind of have to call a spade a spade at a certain point. Either he's baiting, or he went into the show WANTING to find these things and then warped his interpretation around what he wanted the show to be while ignoring the abundance of other things to prove contrary.Lufia Erim said:You aren't the only one , i want the agree with everything you said. However, double standards and social rules stipulates that speaking against women,in any circumstance,such as a television show such as this one, with proper examples and valid arguments, is a big no-no and will be met with scorn and ridicule. Especially on this site full of holier-than-thou posters and white knights, your words will fall upon deaf ears.Telefonegun said:WARNING! Series spoilers of course. WARNING!
Before anyone thinks me as a prime example of male chauvinist, I don't mind female protagonist when done right(femshep>maleshep). Marvels Jessica Jones protagonist isn't done right. More or less like the whole script/directing is just terrible exploitation.
The series has 3 white male main charaters that are all somewhat flawed or bad. The main antogonist Kilgrave is the "epithome of white male" a English man, a colonist, a person with no morality, who's victims are mostly women, homosexuals and colored. Next is Reuben a silly, bit retarded white male who is in love with the female protagonist and is totally dependent of the care of his sister (Quote from the series "He coulnd't even tie his shoelaces without me!") Then there is the white male "hero" Simpson who is basically first a good but bit simple cop that falls victim to Kilgrave. After surviving that he has the most sane and logical solution to end Kilgrave, but after the female protagonist messes up Simpon turns out to be a shady ex-blacops dopehead and murdering psychopath, who thinks he's doing good deeds by killing innocents. This all for the female watchers to feel superior and enpowered when every white male charater in the series are flawed.
The blaxploitation is just so obvious that it made watching Marvels Jessica Jones grinch whorty, a bad flashback to the heydays of 60-70's films with black protagonists. Every black character is either a victim of Kilgrave or hero or both. Malcom is black a heroic ex-victim that helps female protagonist and other victims of Kilgrave after Jessica helps him. Malcom is trustworthy and good person. Luke Cage is the main black hero, a trustworthy, good person who has superpowers and his blackwife Reva was also victim of Kilgrave. Clemons is a trustworthy and good black police officer that falls victim to first to Kilgrave and then to the white male "hero" Simpson.
The female characters are all somewhat positive that don't have much negative traits. Jessica Jones is the supertrong protagonist, a "ex-hero" whos main "flaw" is that she can't bring herself to kill Kilgrave and that creates more and more victims. Jessica is extremely white female, with black hair, black leather jacket,black boots and with black sense of humour. Jessicas best friend is white female Trish who is famous, successful and rich radiohost. Trish is also heroic (learns krav maga), ex-victim of Kilgrave and she is trustworthy person with good moral compass.
All the rest female characters(white or black) are more or less same: lesbian Hogarth a successful lawyer who falls victim to Kilgrave. Pam is female secterary who falls victim to Kilgrave. Wendy Hogarth a female doctor who is good samaritan that keeps a free hospital for poors. Wendy falls victim to Kilgrave, Do'h!. Robyn a female that takes care of his retarted brother and falls victim to Kilgrave.
Then there is the series main victim: Hope. She is innocent, beautiful, sporty country girl who ends up killing her parents, spending her time in the series at jail hell and in the end ends up hero killing herself so that the protagonist has strengt to finally kill the antogonist: A psychopath white male.
Somehow when checking the IMDB page for Marvels Jessica Jones it didn't surpise me that the series creator, most writers and the director are all female. I can't believe that I'm the only one seeing this?
Even when the creators have gone for more realistic New York look and feel, curse words like "fuck" don't show up even once. That isn't very realistic. Note that word "fuck" is often recarded as a mascular, male used, antifeminist and vulgar swearword. Also in the sex scenes a white male is never on top. It's always the female who is on top or the black male (Luke Cage).
Even when the antogonist rapes women, none of these scenes are shown only talked about. The sexual intercourse scenes in the series that are shown the female are always in total control. You can compare this to better written series like GoT.
edit. even the captcha was "yes, ma'am".
,
Dear god this is just click bait. The show had strong male and female protagonists, even if 1/2 of the main protagonist males shifted and became a villain. The whole argument is just atrocious. They gave us a set of characters with a set of flaws and redeeming qualities.
You can get around his commands if he wasn't specific enough but it's never the characters actually under his compulsions doing this. I get the impression that while being "kilgraved" you're going to be too concerned with following the command immediately to do mental gymnastics to get around it and you'll go with whatever you interpreted the command was first.metalmallard said:
Well... I guess I got what I expected coming into this thread
There's really no way to interpret her as a good character, besides the fact that she's a good lawyer, which is the only reason people tolerate her in the first place.
I swear, anytime anything goes against the grain there seems to be reactions like this. All I can really say is congrats? Now you have a taste of what things are usually like for women, except you can always turn to the other 90% of shows that do the exact opposite of what's being done here. Seriously, the fact that you're getting this mad at this should be eye opening to the fact that if you were a woman you'd be having these issues about the majority of shows, instead of just one or two.
EDIT:
Or, as is more concisely put:
In case you didn't notice, Hogarth is an absolute horrible person. She's the second worst character in the show besides Kilgrave. She casts aside her wife like it's nothing, she's completely uncaring unless she wants something from someone, she saves an aborted fetus with the hopes that she can become the next Kilgrave, and her greed enables Kilgrave to kill dozens more people.Telefonegun said:
There's really no way to interpret her as a good character, besides the fact that she's a good lawyer, which is the only reason people tolerate her in the first place.
Are you serious? 9/10 series, you'll find exactly this thing, but with the genders flipped. You're complaining about the fact that there exist shows where there are as many women in the writing staff and directors chair as most other shows have men?
There might be an argument for "*****" or "****" but fuck is very gender neutral.
Uh, there's one sex scene in this show with a white male in it. There's two sex scenes with Luke and Jessica, and those show both parties participating in the sex equally. What is the complaint here? That sex is shown as something that isn't just done to a women, that they can have some control as well?
I swear, anytime anything goes against the grain there seems to be reactions like this. All I can really say is congrats? Now you have a taste of what things are usually like for women, except you can always turn to the other 90% of shows that do the exact opposite of what's being done here. Seriously, the fact that you're getting this mad at this should be eye opening to the fact that if you were a woman you'd be having these issues about the majority of shows, instead of just one or two.
EDIT:
Or, as is more concisely put:
And yeah, it's more or less correct. Except that this show is way tamer than most of the stuff going the other direction is.EeveeElectro said:
First thing I thought of when I saw this thread. I'm trying not to spoil the show for myself so I only skimread a few posts. I assume that tweet is correct though.
The best part are the ones demanding an 'all white version' be made. Like have they SERIOUSLY not heard of the wizard of oz?Kyrian007 said:
Honestly, aside from the whole serial rapist thing, the detail about Kilgrave that made me hate him the most was the fact that he was a fucking foodie. I loathe those people.balladbird said:
These kind of posts are fascinating, as they are much more telling of the person's state of mind than anything one could obtain about the mentioned source material. Have to admit though, i wasn't that interested in this show until this thread popped up. Now it does appear quite interesting indeed, Thanks! Time to renew Netflix subscription methinks!
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