Mass Effect 3 Beta Leak

[AndyFromMonday]

Oh, didn't know I wrote that. I only spoke about the decision Cerebrus made (and so: how they spend their money).

What they did was equally stupid. Mass Effect 2 is generally full of bad writing.

 

[ViralBiae]

Well, crap. Turns out everything is connected to Origin. Looks like I'm going to have to get a crack for ME3 before I play it.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

In Mass Effect, just like in almost all other RPGs, you can take care of this by class choice. If you want your character to be a stealthy type, you choose a rogue-type class and select evasive answers when prompted. If you want to be gentle, you choose a support-type class and select kind answers when prompted. This is what most people have always done in RPGs if they have a character concept in mind.

This way allows more freedom than your idea of dialogue affecting combat behavior, because some people might want to play, for example, a character who is soft-spoken but becomes a berserker in battle. Your way would limit them to being a one-dimensional character.

Your Mass Effect example only occurs if the player allows it to occur. If you want your Shepard to be pro-forgiveness, you only take the side-missions where that's an option.

Additionally, the character of Shepard is already a hardened military officer who has seen plenty of battle. There are only a certain number of personality types that can coincide with that lifestyle, and they would all fight back if they were being attacked. This is a consequence of giving the main character a name, voice, and rank, which was a deliberate choice for the Mass Effect franchise and can't be backed away from now.

Except unlike most other RPGs (or should I say most other good RPGs) there's only 2 choices for how you wish to solve problems. Idealistic or Pragmatic. Neutral is possible, but it provides barely any of the reward the other 2 provide, and will mostly end up with a bunch of dead squad members and half-finished missions.

And please explain to me exactly how class type affects your combat goals, because as far as I know, the only "stealth" option in the game is the infiltrator's cloak, and that alerts every enemy to your location the instant it wears off, so its really more of a damage bonus cooldown. Regardless of class choice, you objective is to just kill all people in the area to unlock the door, and while class may change how you go about doing that, its still a shallow objective.

The example of soft-spoken who becomes a berserker, is exactly how the other half of the equation works. The way you behaving in combat affecting you in dialogue, or if you want to simplify it, the way you behave in combat affects how others treat you in dialogue and how you can respond to them.

Example:
After a mission where you activated a berserking ability and hunted down enemy survivors who were fleeing the battlefield.
Liara: "Shepard, I saw how you were acting on the battlefield, and while I must say I was impressed, I'm also fairly disturbed. I've never seen you act like that before. Is there anything wrong?
Then you get a choice of owning up to it, saying that its what has to be done to win the war, possibly putting her off but demonstrating your ruthless personality. Or you can say you lost your mind for a moment, and she doesn't have to worry as long as she doesn't try to kill me, possibly jokingly, demonstrating the gentle giant who becomes enraged ala your example. Or he can deny it completely saying she was mistaken and possibly offering an excuse, demonstrating an evasive personality that wants to control its violence and keep the ones he loves around him, more of a sympathetic hero that still gets the job done.

The starting hero archetype of war hero/survivor/ruthless can lend itself to an infinite number of character types. War Hero who adopts a passive style in dealing with threats, as he has personally seen how bad it can get when no one tries to diffuse a situation. A ruthless officer who feels enormously guilty for losing his/her soldiers and adopts a lone-wolf style to protect those around him. A survivor that knows exactly how valuable it is to approach a situation by fully observing and choosing to ambush rather than walk in and risk ambush. Characters are very pliable, and their transformation can be a very important part of the story.

Saying that Shepard as a character will always kill people has no bearing, as even Shepard in paragon mode will spout constantly about how important it is to have an open mind and forgive others for their crimes, and how we must try to solve problems without wanton killing. It may be a part of his/her character in many versions, but to keep that aspect of his/her personality there regardless of moral affiliation is lazy and undermines the character.

The difference between Mass Effect and most other RPGs is, as I mentioned already, the fact that your character already has a name, voice, and rank. This, along with the enormous scale of the games, eliminates 90% of the character choices you could make in a more open RPG. Instead of creating your own character that you can play how you like, you're basically taking a basic template for a pre-existing character and playing that character the way you want while remaining within the constraints that must exist for such a method of storytelling. It's not about laziness, it's about what's possible within that method.

This is something that often happens in pencil and paper RPGs as well: a DM will create a cast of characters for a story and the players each choose one. This is the kind of RPG Mass Effect is, rather than the kind where you create your own character from scratch.

It's also an issue of time and budget constraints on the developers; as much as I would have loved it if, for example, the characters commented on any possible appearance changes you made to Shepard between ME1 and ME2, it would have been just too much work for such little return. It's the same with your example of Liara commenting on Shepard acting out of character: they can only write and record so much dialogue.

Also, in my last paragraph, what I said was that a hardened military officer who has seen plenty of battles will always fight back when attacked. Not that they will always kill people. The only times you're required to fight in Mass Effect are if you're already being attacked; you never have to kill innocents. And even then, if story is really important to you, you can play on easy mode and hang back and let your squad do most of the fighting for you.

 

[Irridium]

Do not want.

Why do people even want to play games unfinished?

I'll happily wait for the finished, undoubtedly awesome final version.

Worse, people play the beta (Whether official or leaked in it's crappier than beta state like this one was), then decide whether or not the game is worth buying from that.

That's not how a beta works, people. It's just noooooooot. /rage

To be fair, quite a few developers have been treating it more like an early-access demo. Battlefield 3 was a prime example.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I hear that a lot. And I seldom get any proof for that statement. Most of the arguments can be simply dismissed or explained.

Would you care to add something worth answering?

Why Shepard and not an army?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Oh, didn't know I wrote that. I only spoke about the decision Cerebrus made (and so: how they spend their money).

What they did was equally stupid. Mass Effect 2 is generally full of bad writing.

I hear that a lot. And I seldom get any proof for that statement. Most of the arguments can be simply dismissed or explained.

Would you care to add something worth answering?

Shamus did a great article on it.
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=7004

 

[Kopikatsu]

Do not want.

Why do people even want to play games unfinished?

I'll happily wait for the finished, undoubtedly awesome final version.

Worse, people play the beta (Whether official or leaked in it's crappier than beta state like this one was), then decide whether or not the game is worth buying from that.

That's not how a beta works, people. It's just noooooooot. /rage

To be fair, quite a few developers have been treating it more like an early-access demo. Battlefield 3 was a prime example.

I'd say your argument is flawed. The beta was nothing like the retail game.

Hell, I even played Op. Metro on Rush in the retail and the experience was completely different.

 

[Fredvdp]

I'm actually very disappointed to see no mass effect 2 characters in the squad. (Except for, in some respect, Garrus?) It reeks of corner cutting. "Yeah so we made a game where anyone can die and now we can't be bothered to let you have them on the team."

Of the six announced squadmates 1 to 3 are dead.

Spoiler

Ashley, Kaidan, Garrus and Tali can die. James, Liara and the Virmire survivor are always alive.

 

[Irridium]

Do not want.

Why do people even want to play games unfinished?

I'll happily wait for the finished, undoubtedly awesome final version.

Worse, people play the beta (Whether official or leaked in it's crappier than beta state like this one was), then decide whether or not the game is worth buying from that.

That's not how a beta works, people. It's just noooooooot. /rage

To be fair, quite a few developers have been treating it more like an early-access demo. Battlefield 3 was a prime example.

I'd say your argument is flawed. The beta was nothing like the retail game.

Hell, I even played Op. Metro on Rush in the retail and the experience was completely different.

When I said "treating like an early-access demo", I meat "advertising/marketing as an early-access demo".

I should have been more clear.

 

[AmstradHero]

hmm, clearly i need to replay the game, but screw that, i've got better shit to play!
all in all, you do make quite a few valid points (more than me, actually), but i still can't shake the feeling that the writers are going to try to squeeze the lazarus project back into the third installment, and you can't disprove that. have a nice day.

Ahhh, he can't disprove a vague feeling that you have based on nothing more than gut feeling with little to no evidence. Riiiight.

Oh, didn't know I wrote that. I only spoke about the decision Cerebrus made (and so: how they spend their money).

What they did was equally stupid. Mass Effect 2 is generally full of bad writing.

I hear that a lot. And I seldom get any proof for that statement. Most of the arguments can be simply dismissed or explained.

Would you care to add something worth answering?

Shamus did a great article on it.
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=7004

Agreed with the post above that some of this is very short-sighted and that the author is focused on the small picture rather than the big picture. It's an interesting read, but not without its own flaws of logic and inaccuracies that are just as big as those that he does point out.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Because read the freakin post you quoted me from the first time.

Shepard was because of his status, the actual progress in the Lazarus Project (As if they started it only because of Shepard) and the fact that he is feared by the enemy the better shot.

But wouldn't an army or a fleet serve a much better role in the protection of the galaxy than a commando? I get it, he's a good commander but the only thing that makes him better than the other soldiers in the galaxy is that he fought a Reaper. The thing is, you could replace Shepard with any other Spectre/soldier in the galaxy and they would've done the same. There's no defining characteristic that puts Shepard in the role of "the one". As for the Lazarus Project, the idea that you could revive a human being, especially after what Shepard went through, is laughable.

 

[Fredvdp]

The Lazarus Project is not back. They're just using a placeholder interface in the beta.

 

[TheGuy(wantstobe)]

Spoiler: Squadmate info from latest story leak

Garrus: Lives no matter what. Is strictly your bro, never leaves your side.
Liara: You choose if she dies. After fighting Kai Leng, Liara and Ash/Kaidan are crippled. You can only save one.
Ash/Kaidan: Persuasion check or you kill him/her, THEN you choose if s/he dies. Kai Leng turns them against you, you have to talk them out of killing you. After fighting Kai Leng, Liara and Ash/Kaidan are both crippled. You can only save one.
Wrex: Lives no matter what. Only with you on Tuchanka and Surkesh, saving the female Krogan.
Tali: You choose if she dies. Flotilla assaulting Rannoch, geth under Reaper control no matter what you chose in ME2. Choice between helping quarians or helping geth.
Mordin: Dies no matter what. Releases genophage cure on Tuchanka, falls to death once done.
Thane: Dies no matter what. Lung condition catches up with him after he kills an indoctrinated Councilman Udina.
Jack: Lives no matter what. Teaches at the Alliance biotic academy. Can choose to have her safeguard students, or lead them into battle. Leading them into battle results in dead children and insane Jack.
Legion: Dies no matter what. Flotilla assaulting Rannoch, geth under Reaper control no matter what you chose in ME2. Legion sacrifices himself to break the geth collective free of Reaper control.
Samara: You choose if she dies. Her other two Ardat Yakshi daughters are being held captive and used to create special asari husks. You save one, the other must be put down. Samara can't bear to kill the last of her children, so you must either kill her yourself or kill Samara.

This latest leak is brilliantly hilarious. Do not worry about your choices in ME1+2 as the leak shows they mean bugger all to ME3.

edit: Examples of choices meaning nothing

Spoiler: Choices

Rachni = In ME1 you had a choice whether to kill the queen and destroy the last hope for the species to exist but prevent them from ever being a threat or let the queen live and gain an ally but run the risk of them going nuts again. In the ME3 leak no matter what you chose there is a Rachni popping out little indoctrinated Rachni babies that you have to stop.
Councillor choice = Udina is the Councillor no matter what you chose
Tali = In her loyalty mission she is either banished from the fleet or remains. In ME3 she is an Admiral of the Quarian fleet.
Legion = In his loyalty mission you had a choice whether to reprogramme the heretics or blow them all up. In ME3 all Geth are heretics no matter what.
ME2 endgame choice = Not mentioned in the ME3 leak at all. Ever.[/apoiler]

 

[Ubermetalhed]

It's good to see that the dialogue and voice acting is as stilted as ever.

Only thing that was cool or even noteworthy was the bit where the ship exploded.