Mass Effect 3: Casey Hudson's Largest FUBAR

Recommended Videos

Darkcerb

New member
Mar 22, 2012
81
0
0
Mr Goostoff said:
Monster_user said:
Darkcerb said:
Mr Goostoff said:
ruthaford_jive said:
rhizhim said:
ruthaford_jive said:
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.
That is absolutely untrue! The Reapers do not wipe out all organic life, and the fact that you're arguing that they do just proves how unqualified you are to be arguing this.
It is stated in the game that the Protheans were studying the evolution of humanity from Mars, and the timeline would support this (the Protheans were wiped out 50,000 years ago, when primitive humans existed). That proves exactly what I said, and disproves what you said.
The Reapers wiping out the Protheans meant the end of the Protheans, NOT the end of humanity.
And humans went on to become the new dominant species, which shows that what they intended to do (allow other species to rise up) happens, and works.
Now please, know what you're talking about before trying.
And for the record, I too believe in the indoctrination/dream theory.
And now they're back to wipe us all out to stop us from wiping ourselves out.

The logic is made even more false when you have either the geth and quarians in fleet or even just the geth fighting alongside the alliance. And the most annoying part is shep becomes such an apathetic puppet to this literal deus ex machina that he doesn't even call the glowstick on it.

And the most ridiculous part of it all is the reapers themselves go out of there way throughout the series to instigate war between synthetics and organics. Their argument is so weak they have to make sure each cycle works out in there favor.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

Waiting watcher
Nov 28, 2010
934
0
0
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
(additional snip)
Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.
This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?
Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.
Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.
What makes it so crappy is that Shamus is the only person from the other side that even makes an effort to say "okay I know where you guys are comming from, I even sympathise, but this is what I think." From everyone else it's just a mound of "Stop you're whining you entitled brat!"On that note, I hope the avengers movie has the worst ending in cinima since the Star Wars prequels so that When Moviebob starts whining I can call him out in the comments section.
I honestly think there's some mass corruption going on here between all of the ads for ME3 on roughly every website in existence and not one website until recently saying that they didn't like the ME3 ending. The one that when Bioware had a poll of people's thoughts on the ending over 90% said they didn't like the ending. Then we get into huge companies also owning gaming websites and developers but never speaking of the conflict of interest. If I remember correctly there was the person from IGN who gave DA2 a great review score there and then got a job at Bioware. Yeah that doesn't look even remotely seedy.
And nowhere does this show more clearly (For me anyway) Than the zero punctuation review. So the guy who practically etched a name for himself by overexaggerating flaws in games has only one thing to say about the ME 3 ending: "It could have been worse." Yeah, that's true, but then so could have the Hindenburg crash.
On a point of defense for Zero-Puntcuation... he pretty much shat on the game as a whole rather than focusing on the ending, which is pretty much what he does with every game. Also, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who - especially as a critic playing games at a breakneck pace to review them weekly - gets emotionally invested enough in his characters to really feel the impact of the ending like a non-professional player would. I think it is to his credit that he neither mocked people who didn't care for the ending nor attempted to pretend he actually cared enough about the ending to be upset about it personally.
 

Krion_Vark

New member
Mar 25, 2010
1,700
0
0
Killertje said:
I do enjoy the speculation for a while (including the indoctrination theory), so I wouldn't mind if Bioware held back on the real endings and made those available as DLC after a few months. However it looks like that wasn't the idea behind this at all; it looks like it was just a sloppy ending made by 2 people instead of the entire team, leaving more questions unanswered than if the credits would have rolled after getting shot by harbinger. (Insert cutscene where all the fleets and all planets in the galaxy get reaped.)
I actually thought the Indoctronation theory was good a plausible from what I had played through. Then I got to the end where a huge amount of it weighs. And I felt that TIMs speech threw that theory into the toilet peed all over it burned it for good measure then flushed.
 

Darkcerb

New member
Mar 22, 2012
81
0
0
Mylinkay Asdara said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
(additional snip)
Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.
This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?
Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.
Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.
What makes it so crappy is that Shamus is the only person from the other side that even makes an effort to say "okay I know where you guys are comming from, I even sympathise, but this is what I think." From everyone else it's just a mound of "Stop you're whining you entitled brat!"On that note, I hope the avengers movie has the worst ending in cinima since the Star Wars prequels so that When Moviebob starts whining I can call him out in the comments section.
I honestly think there's some mass corruption going on here between all of the ads for ME3 on roughly every website in existence and not one website until recently saying that they didn't like the ME3 ending. The one that when Bioware had a poll of people's thoughts on the ending over 90% said they didn't like the ending. Then we get into huge companies also owning gaming websites and developers but never speaking of the conflict of interest. If I remember correctly there was the person from IGN who gave DA2 a great review score there and then got a job at Bioware. Yeah that doesn't look even remotely seedy.
And nowhere does this show more clearly (For me anyway) Than the zero punctuation review. So the guy who practically etched a name for himself by overexaggerating flaws in games has only one thing to say about the ME 3 ending: "It could have been worse." Yeah, that's true, but then so could have the Hindenburg crash.
On a point of defense for Zero-Puntcuation... he pretty much shat on the game as a whole rather than focusing on the ending, which is pretty much what he does with every game. Also, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who - especially as a critic playing games at a breakneck pace to review them weekly - gets emotionally invested enough in his characters to really feel the impact of the ending like a non-professional player would. I think it is to his credit that he neither mocked people who didn't care for the ending nor attempted to pretend he actually cared enough about the ending to be upset about it personally.
Re-watch the end of the video, read the text. He does make a dig at all the "fanboys" angry at the ending.
 

Starke

New member
Mar 6, 2008
3,877
0
0
Adam Jensen said:
Apparently you can't write a good story when the lead writer from previous 2 games wasn't involved at all, and when the project director takes it upon himself to write the ending without any input from other writers. Who knew, huh?
On that one, I'm torn. Drew Karpyshn is a gawdawful writer, and for the most part 3 benefits from his departure... and then Hudson wanders in and everything goes to hell.
 

Starke

New member
Mar 6, 2008
3,877
0
0
The Abhorrent said:
Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that the ending to Mass Effect 3 could be a textbook case of "Viewers Are Geniuses [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreGeniuses]"; especially when you consider that they were also deliberately going for a divisive and thought-provoking conclusion. They did just that, quite successfully I would say.

... Unfortunately, it seems someone forgot to mention that an ending which is too sophisticated is even worse than one which isn't sophisticated enough in the eyes of the average person.
No, Honestly, what's happened here is that you went to TV tropes and thought it could explain the universe. It doesn't.

Anyone, and I mean anyone can try to justify anything as sheer genius. Wasting your energy claiming Mass Effect 3's ending was somehow secretly a nirvana of hidden truths was a mistake.

There are a lot of genuinely intelligent people who looked at it and said "that's bunk". There are a lot of exceedingly stupid people who looked at it, and had their brains exploded into a pulpy mass, and thought they'd found the second coming. Or at least did up until the smell of burnt toast and a red haze obscured all rational thought.

The fact is, Mass Effect 3's ending is crap. Hudson tried to be smarter than he actually was, and tried to make an argument, on his own, without the support of the rest of the story.

Now, he was involved in the franchise up to that point, so it would be rather startling if there wasn't at least one common theme expressed from the games. But, what Hudson is not, and will never be is a writer. He is not a writer. He can never be a writer. He has no respect for what a writer is. He looks at writers and seems to believe all they do is put words on a page with no respect for what they are actually doing. And because of that, he cannot write.

I don't mean he is illiterate, I mean he cannot write fiction, he cannot write characters, and above all else he cannot write an ending. He can envision an ending and hand it off to a writer to turn it into an actual ending, but he cannot do it himself.

And that was the task he set himself to. The task he failed at. And all the good intentions or deeper themes in the world will never repair that a kid just wandered into the art gallery, said, "I can do that better" and proceeded to finger paint all over the canvas.
 

Savagezion

New member
Mar 28, 2010
2,455
0
0
The Abhorrent said:
From the Article:

The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.
Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that the ending to Mass Effect 3 could be a textbook case of "Viewers Are Geniuses [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreGeniuses]"; especially when you consider that they were also deliberately going for a divisive and thought-provoking conclusion. They did just that, quite successfully I would say.

... Unfortunately, it seems someone forgot to mention that an ending which is too sophisticated is even worse than one which isn't sophisticated enough in the eyes of the average person.

Ergo, the many of the fans got angry because they locked themselves out of the loop by not paying attention to the multitude of genius bonuses [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GeniusBonus] littered throughtout the series. In all of the games of the trilogy, there's constant allusion to the value of information and the patterns which lie beneath; but nevertheless, that doesn't mean the majority of players are paying attention to them, probably only a very small minority. They are the key to "getting" the meaning behind the ending to Mass Effect, along with the willingness to accept an ending which lacks closure (as it does make it more thought-provoking).

Of course, one could easily argue that they shouldn't of bothered to go for this sort of ending at all; it's just asking for trouble. Even if that was not negotiable, the ending still could have been executed much better. But no matter how you slice it, averting this issue means having it dumb it down a bit; not to the point of painfully obvious, just to the point most players could actually see it coming.

And just to say, this sort of problem is actually very common among intellectuals. Lost within our own minds, considering the intricate relations of many different things at once; we end up forgetting that most people aren't even aware of such things, let alone interested. And then trying to break it down into more digestible segments for the average person, we still end up going over their heads; it takes a few tries to get it right, and it may be a case-by-case basis as well.

---

And to go on a brief tangent, Dragon Age II has a very similar problem with it's narrative; heck, the exact same problem. The issues with level and encounter design didn't help the matter either, as those were undeniable and rather serious issues. Mass Effect 3 didn't have the gameplay problems of DA2, and the vast majority of the narrative was done in a way that most could enjoy on the basic level.

This could be a growing problem for Bioware, at least if they want to continue making mainstream games. All of their games have a very heavy intellectual angle to them, and lately it starting to get a bit too dominant in their narratives; they don't have to sink to the lowest common denominator [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LowestCommonDenominator], but they're very quickly moving into the niche appeal market unless they can strike the right balance between smart writing and accessible writing.
Wow, that post is pretentious. What exactly are the "genius bonuses" in Mass Effect? Perhaps you should explain it to the common folk. Please, help us "get" the meaning behind the ending of Mass Effect.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

Waiting watcher
Nov 28, 2010
934
0
0
Darkcerb said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
(additional snip)
Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.
This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?
Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.
Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.
What makes it so crappy is that Shamus is the only person from the other side that even makes an effort to say "okay I know where you guys are comming from, I even sympathise, but this is what I think." From everyone else it's just a mound of "Stop you're whining you entitled brat!"On that note, I hope the avengers movie has the worst ending in cinima since the Star Wars prequels so that When Moviebob starts whining I can call him out in the comments section.
I honestly think there's some mass corruption going on here between all of the ads for ME3 on roughly every website in existence and not one website until recently saying that they didn't like the ME3 ending. The one that when Bioware had a poll of people's thoughts on the ending over 90% said they didn't like the ending. Then we get into huge companies also owning gaming websites and developers but never speaking of the conflict of interest. If I remember correctly there was the person from IGN who gave DA2 a great review score there and then got a job at Bioware. Yeah that doesn't look even remotely seedy.
And nowhere does this show more clearly (For me anyway) Than the zero punctuation review. So the guy who practically etched a name for himself by overexaggerating flaws in games has only one thing to say about the ME 3 ending: "It could have been worse." Yeah, that's true, but then so could have the Hindenburg crash.
On a point of defense for Zero-Puntcuation... he pretty much shat on the game as a whole rather than focusing on the ending, which is pretty much what he does with every game. Also, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who - especially as a critic playing games at a breakneck pace to review them weekly - gets emotionally invested enough in his characters to really feel the impact of the ending like a non-professional player would. I think it is to his credit that he neither mocked people who didn't care for the ending nor attempted to pretend he actually cared enough about the ending to be upset about it personally.
Re-watch the end of the video, read the text. He does make a dig at all the "fanboys" angry at the ending.
Watched it again, didn't catch "fanboys" anywhere - and even if I had, for him that's hardly even an insult. I'm just saying, there are people in this conflict that deserve our annoyed disappointment and people who aren't worth bothering with. I'd rather focus on the actually problematic individuals (on both sides) who are out to enflame the entire thing rather than mince everything anyone says for the next 6 mo. to try to figure out their slant on the ME3 ending controversy. This is where proportion comes into play, for me.
 

dreadedcandiru99

New member
Apr 13, 2009
893
0
0
SageRuffin said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
Personally, I might (and I cannot emphasize that "might" strongly enough) have been willing to accept the Star Child scene, but if the Reapers absolutely had to go from "incomprehensible Lovecraftian horrors from beyond space and time" to "we turn organics into organic-killing synthetics to stop organics from creating organic-killing synthetics," then that crap had to get a lot more explanation. They'd also have to explain why, if the thing that made the Reapers has been living in the Citadel the whole time, Sovereign's role in ME1 was even necessary.

As for the ending, I still kind of think something like this [http://social.bioware.com/poll.php?user=1183972&poll_id=29101] would be the simplest way to fix it.

(And seriously, Bioware needs to fire whoever's responsible for this travesty.)
I mostly agree, though I never liked the "incomprehensible alien abomination" angle some stories took as, to me, it leaves a giant gaping maw the size of the Mariana Trench. That's how I've always saw the Reapers: plot devices with bizarre designs and awesome voices.
Honestly, now that we've seen the alternative, I really wish they hadn't bothered. I think the Reapers were much scarier back when they were these utterly alien things that come out of nowhere to kill half the galaxy and melt down the other half to make babies; as Yahtzee once said in whichever video it was, mysteries cease to be interesting once they're explained. Besides, "our motivation is too complex for you to understand" is way more intimidating and impressive than "our motivation is too stupid for you to believe."



And if you think of it, "plot devices with bizarre designs and awesome voices" were all the Reapers ever really needed to be. I'm sure that if I'd finished reading the Lord of the Rings books, I'd have gotten an explanation of where exactly the Dark Lord Sauron came from and why he did all the things he did, but I didn't have to know that stuff to enjoy the movies. The Reapers, like Sauron, just had to be the Big Evil Thing that got the plot rolling so that we could meet all the characters, and build relationships with them, and find out about all the different alien cultures and everything. And at the end, the Reapers just had to be like the Final Test, where you find out if all the work you've put into unifying the galaxy would pay off, so that the Krogan would finally have a future and Tali could build her house on Rannoch and so forth.

TL;DR version: the Reapers didn't necessarily need to be explained to be decent antagonists.
 

Darkcerb

New member
Mar 22, 2012
81
0
0
"is it possible you're dissatisfied with the ending simply because it *was* ending, fanboys"

It's just a shame that most of the industry is so predictable, most are so terrified of bad mouthing the industry they've latched onto like lamprey eels that they immediately and deliberately miss the point of why most consumers are pissed at the ending. Most admitting at the outset that they haven't finished the game.

It's a sad state of affairs when a business news site "Forbes" covers the story with far less bias then game journalists most of whom go to lengths to remind us that they're just another consumer.
 

Zetatrain

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2010
752
22
23
Country
United States
salinv said:
ruthaford_jive said:
Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?
I think the point is that the logic the reapers use is valid with their (broken) robotic logic. Humans are going to kill themselves? We can't allow that! Solution: Kill them all, so they don't kill themselves. It sounds stupid from our point of view, but if you think about it, it almost makes sense in a binary fashion.
My interpretation of the Reapers initiative was that by killing the advanced organics, and thereby preventing the creation of their own synthetics lifeforms, the reapers are preventing the complete extinction of all organic life. IMO,the Reapers believe that once the synthetics overthrow their creators they will move on to exterminate the lesser (primitive)organic races in order to prevent future threats to their(synthetic)existence. In short, the Reaper's aren't trying to save the advanced organic species from extinction, they're trying to save organic life as a whole from extinction, and this means sacrificing the advanced organic lifeforms.

There is also the fact that even though the Reaper's are harvesting the advanced organic lifeforms, they still believe that they are doing them a favor. Since the Reapers do not view life or existence the way organics do, they believe that by simply preserving the dead bodies within them they are preserving the "existence" of those advanced organics. Also, since the
Reapers view themselves as superior beings, they believe that by joining the organic bodies with their own the organic beings are being ascended to a greater existence, one of pure order.
 

luvd1

New member
Jan 25, 2010
736
0
0
Zetatrain said:
salinv said:
ruthaford_jive said:
Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?
I think the point is that the logic the reapers use is valid with their (broken) robotic logic. Humans are going to kill themselves? We can't allow that! Solution: Kill them all, so they don't kill themselves. It sounds stupid from our point of view, but if you think about it, it almost makes sense in a binary fashion.
My interpretation of the Reapers initiative was that by killing the advanced organics, and thereby preventing the creation of their own synthetics lifeforms, the reapers are preventing the complete extinction of all organic life. IMO,the Reapers believe that once the synthetics overthrow their creators they will move on to exterminate the lesser (primitive)organic races in order to prevent future threats to their(synthetic)existence. In short, the Reaper's aren't trying to save the advanced organic species from extinction, they're trying to save organic life as a whole from extinction, and this means sacrificing the advanced organic lifeforms.

There is also the fact that even though the Reaper's are harvesting the advanced organic lifeforms, they still believe that they are doing them a favor. Since the Reapers do not view life or existence the way organics do, they believe that by simply preserving the dead bodies within them they are preserving the "existence" of those advanced organics. Also, since the
Reapers view themselves as superior beings, they believe that by joining the organic bodies with their own the organic beings are being ascended to a greater existence, one of pure order.
Your pretty spot on, that is the reasoning for the reapers. Which is typical machine logic and good.... Cept the major flaw is in this for me is that the reapers by that premises prove its wrong. By the logic of the reapers they should be wiping out all organic life. And how did they get to such a conclusion anyway? Did the "star child" kill off its organic creators and in a moment of remorse took it on itself to build the reapers to be the guardians of the galaxy? For me there's nothing wrong in the ending in itself story wise other then it being piss poorly written. 9 out of 10 for the idea, a kick in the balls for the execution. The other stuff show someone getting carried away with their own idea without someone to ask "why does god need a starship?".
 

Killertje

New member
Dec 12, 2010
137
0
0
Krion_Vark said:
Killertje said:
I do enjoy the speculation for a while (including the indoctrination theory), so I wouldn't mind if Bioware held back on the real endings and made those available as DLC after a few months. However it looks like that wasn't the idea behind this at all; it looks like it was just a sloppy ending made by 2 people instead of the entire team, leaving more questions unanswered than if the credits would have rolled after getting shot by harbinger. (Insert cutscene where all the fleets and all planets in the galaxy get reaped.)
I actually thought the Indoctronation theory was good a plausible from what I had played through. Then I got to the end where a huge amount of it weighs. And I felt that TIMs speech threw that theory into the toilet peed all over it burned it for good measure then flushed.
Burning something you pee over is pretty hard... or so I heard.
But in all seriousness, everything from the moment harbinger zaps you I consider part of the ending. And as most of us agree, the ending is a rushed POS that should have been worked out better by the "artists", including the chat with TIM (It would be SO funny if his first name was revealed to be Tim).
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

Hella noided
Dec 11, 2009
2,999
0
0
ruthaford_jive said:
rhizhim said:
ruthaford_jive said:
EA: Here's what's gonna happen Casey, you and Mac are gonna take control of this thing and end it.

Casey: Why?

EA: Well, see... if we put the ending in your and Mac Daddies hands instead of giving the fans what they were promised, they'll will rise up en mass and demand something new and then we'll be able to give them just that.

Casey: Or... we could just give them-

EA: No... the plans have been set in motion.
thats unfair.

the reapers somewhat had a point!
Nice picture, made me giggle a bit.

Made me think of something though. If the reapers are just chillin' in dark space for hundreds of thousands of years, and on top of that they're super duper (really duper) intelligent, than wouldn't at least one of them have found out that their reasons for killing organics makes no sense?
Found the answer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR4H76SCCzY[/youtube]
 

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
2,005
0
0
dreadedcandiru99 said:
Super snip powers... ACTIVATE!
I'm one of those weird guys who likes to (over)analyze everything - such as that piece of shit that supposed to be Soul Calibur V's story mode where almost literally nothing is explained (and, especially for a fighting game, Soul Calibur had one of the better storylines out there) - but I get what your saying. I'm just saying that particular angle just smacks of bad writing in my eyes. And while BioWare has had their fair share of hiccups just like everyone else, their writers are usually better than that.

Somewhat unrelated: how many assets do you need to get the "perfect" ending? I've heard, like... 3 different numbers.
 

Mr Goostoff

New member
Aug 14, 2008
100
0
0
Darkcerb said:
Mr Goostoff said:
Monster_user said:
Darkcerb said:
Mr Goostoff said:
ruthaford_jive said:
rhizhim said:
ruthaford_jive said:
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.
That is absolutely untrue! The Reapers do not wipe out all organic life, and the fact that you're arguing that they do just proves how unqualified you are to be arguing this.
It is stated in the game that the Protheans were studying the evolution of humanity from Mars, and the timeline would support this (the Protheans were wiped out 50,000 years ago, when primitive humans existed). That proves exactly what I said, and disproves what you said.
The Reapers wiping out the Protheans meant the end of the Protheans, NOT the end of humanity.
And humans went on to become the new dominant species, which shows that what they intended to do (allow other species to rise up) happens, and works.
Now please, know what you're talking about before trying.
And for the record, I too believe in the indoctrination/dream theory.
And now they're back to wipe us all out to stop us from wiping ourselves out.

The logic is made even more false when you have either the geth and quarians in fleet or even just the geth fighting alongside the alliance. And the most annoying part is shep becomes such an apathetic puppet to this literal deus ex machina that he doesn't even call the glowstick on it.

And the most ridiculous part of it all is the reapers themselves go out of there way throughout the series to instigate war between synthetics and organics. Their argument is so weak they have to make sure each cycle works out in there favor.
Everyone who is arguing against what I'm saying is not even reading what I'm saying.
I'll try dumbing it down.

And remember, this is according to the Reapers and what they believe, I'm not saying that this is was WOULD happen.

They believe that it is inevitable that organic races will build a race of synthetics that will go about eradicating every last bit of organic life. EVERYTHING!

So, the Reapers step in and kill ONLY the most advanced races, before they have the chance to create such machines.

The Reapers see themselves as acting for the greater good of organic life; wipe out the most advanced races before they create something that will wipe out everything.

Here it is in the most simple of terms:

WITHOUT REAPERS
Top-dog species creates race of synthetics. Eventually, synthetics get stronger, turn on their creators, and destroy all organic life in the galaxy.

WITH REAPERS
Top-dog species is wiped out, before they can create the army of synthetics. This species is eradicated, but organic life lives on.


There is no hole in the logic of the argument itself. Whether or not their beliefs are accurate is another matter, and up to each individual's interpretation.

And as far as the whole bit about - if it happens in your playthrough - showing the Reapers the possible Quarian/Geth alliance, I also believe that that would not work. The Reapers would be more than likely to counter, saying that up until this point, the Geth are proof that their means are true, and that the alliance was only bartered because both of their races' existence were in jeopardy.

Not to mention the silly presumption that the Reapers would just decide to stop the cycle after countless times because one group of synthetics hasn't tried to kill everything.
And, finally, why would they believe that the Geth were incapable of turning on everyone again?
 

Gravy Boat Gary

New member
Apr 13, 2011
14
0
0
I don't know if it's been brought up yet but the way I see it, in all 3 endings Earth is destroyed. No matter the choice you make when activating the Crucible, the Mass Relays are destroyed. When Shepard destroys the Relay in the "Arrival" DLC in Mass Effect 2 an entre system is wiped out as a result so wouldn't that lead one to believe, Sol and any other system with a Relay in it would also be wiped out as the Crucible's "beam" destroys each relay.
 

Darkcerb

New member
Mar 22, 2012
81
0
0
Mr Goostoff said:
Darkcerb said:
Mr Goostoff said:
Monster_user said:
Darkcerb said:
Mr Goostoff said:
ruthaford_jive said:
rhizhim said:
ruthaford_jive said:
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
-snip-
Shepard is the CATALYST!!! *MIND BLOWN*

Mr Goostoff:, the image makes more sense to me than your post. They both say the same thing, the image just breaks it down into simpler terms, and points out the fallacy of the logic. These Reapers are Synthetics, they are DESTINED to wiped out EVERYTHING. Not just the "higher" organics that they were designed to reap.

Which is why I subscribe to the indoctrination theory.
That is absolutely untrue! The Reapers do not wipe out all organic life, and the fact that you're arguing that they do just proves how unqualified you are to be arguing this.
It is stated in the game that the Protheans were studying the evolution of humanity from Mars, and the timeline would support this (the Protheans were wiped out 50,000 years ago, when primitive humans existed). That proves exactly what I said, and disproves what you said.
The Reapers wiping out the Protheans meant the end of the Protheans, NOT the end of humanity.
And humans went on to become the new dominant species, which shows that what they intended to do (allow other species to rise up) happens, and works.
Now please, know what you're talking about before trying.
And for the record, I too believe in the indoctrination/dream theory.
And now they're back to wipe us all out to stop us from wiping ourselves out.

The logic is made even more false when you have either the geth and quarians in fleet or even just the geth fighting alongside the alliance. And the most annoying part is shep becomes such an apathetic puppet to this literal deus ex machina that he doesn't even call the glowstick on it.

And the most ridiculous part of it all is the reapers themselves go out of there way throughout the series to instigate war between synthetics and organics. Their argument is so weak they have to make sure each cycle works out in there favor.
Everyone who is arguing against what I'm saying is not even reading what I'm saying.
I'll try dumbing it down.

And remember, this is according to the Reapers and what they believe, I'm not saying that this is was WOULD happen.

They believe that it is inevitable that organic races will build a race of synthetics that will go about eradicating every last bit of organic life. EVERYTHING!

So, the Reapers step in and kill ONLY the most advanced races, before they have the chance to create such machines.

The Reapers see themselves as acting for the greater good of organic life; wipe out the most advanced races before they create something that will wipe out everything.

Here it is in the most simple of terms:

WITHOUT REAPERS
Top-dog species creates race of synthetics. Eventually, synthetics get stronger, turn on their creators, and destroy all organic life in the galaxy.

WITH REAPERS
Top-dog species is wiped out, before they can create the army of synthetics. This species is eradicated, but organic life lives on.


There is no hole in the logic of the argument itself. Whether or not their beliefs are accurate is another matter, and up to each individual's interpretation.

And as far as the whole bit about - if it happens in your playthrough - showing the Reapers the possible Quarian/Geth alliance, I also believe that that would not work. The Reapers would be more than likely to counter, saying that up until this point, the Geth are proof that their means are true, and that the alliance was only bartered because both of their races' existence were in jeopardy.

Not to mention the silly presumption that the Reapers would just decide to stop the cycle after countless times because one group of synthetics hasn't tried to kill everything.
And, finally, why would they believe that the Geth were incapable of turning on everyone again?
Maybe I should dumb my post down to.

Reapers come kill all advanced races to save them from killing themselves.

That is what I'm saying that they leave some alive actually hurts there logic because they then have to come back and kill those races whether they have created synthetics or not because "They might"

Which is incidentally what you say is their response to the geth working with us, so in essence they do not obey logic as we understand it fine. Then why bother explaining them at all? what a waste of time.

Then why the heck do I have to listen to them for even a second? Why can't I say "You're an insane synthetic and I have no intention of listening to you or choosing any of these dopey choices"

They can gob on about how filling there shells with the melted down goo of a race lets it endure but that itself is crap because:

But they couldn't could they because they'd shot themselves in the foot the reapers went from a fully sentient race who couldn't be comprehended to a bunch of puppets (lets call them terminators) for some ghost kid ai(let's call him skynet!)

The race doesn't endure at all it just becomes yet another terminator with a weird amount of goo flowing through it.

The ending is a joke and the reapers themselves are the punch line, but if you want to keep harping on about how logical and awesome they are, good for you. Just don't be surprised when everyone looks at you funny.

EDIT: And even with there logic why haven't they just wiped everything out and then I don't know retired? after all the races would endure in them life would be preserved. It's almost like there was a dark energy plot line that was dropped that dictated humans would make a reaper capable of stopping it's spread. And/or the indoc theory.

Or any other plot line that would make this mess decent. But they wouldn't drop a satisfying conclusion on purpose would they? They respect there consumers.
 

anthony87

New member
Aug 13, 2009
3,727
0
0
Darkcerb said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
Devoneaux said:
80Maxwell08 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
dreadedcandiru99 said:
anthony87 said:
(additional snip)
Well if the comments of the article are anything to go by then that's where a lot of people stopped, myself included only to be hit by torrents of "Oh, well if that's where you stopped then you're missing the point of the article and just showing how whiney you are" and the like. Mind you, I did give it a read eventually and....well it's the same nonsense we've been hearing up to now saying we're acting spoiled, holding the industry back, "artistic integrity" and so on.

So it seems that even so-called "journalists" who haven't even touched the ENTIRE SERIES let along experienced the ending of the third game have a greater say on the whole matter than we do.

There's no bloody winning with these people.
This reminds me, I need to find that Reddit thread where somebody posted a screenshot of Jim Sterling and a bunch of other guys having an ever-so-classy Twitter shit-fit about the guy who writes the articles for Forbes. You know, Forbes? The business magazine that's been pwning these gaming journalists with surprising regularity since this whole mess started?

Right, that Forbes.

EDIT: Oh, another thing, about these unceasing cries of "artistic integrity": where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so utterly awful that Bioware wound up agreeing to have it rewritten?
Awh man, why would Jim be bashing Forbes? I thought he was one of the few who actually understood why people were pissed off?

Oh well, at least we've still got Shamus not jumping on the "whiners" bandwagon.
Jim turned full hypocrite the moment people started getting pissed about the ending. I stopped going to Destructoid altogether from how absolutely retarded they were acting about this.
What makes it so crappy is that Shamus is the only person from the other side that even makes an effort to say "okay I know where you guys are comming from, I even sympathise, but this is what I think." From everyone else it's just a mound of "Stop you're whining you entitled brat!"On that note, I hope the avengers movie has the worst ending in cinima since the Star Wars prequels so that When Moviebob starts whining I can call him out in the comments section.
I honestly think there's some mass corruption going on here between all of the ads for ME3 on roughly every website in existence and not one website until recently saying that they didn't like the ME3 ending. The one that when Bioware had a poll of people's thoughts on the ending over 90% said they didn't like the ending. Then we get into huge companies also owning gaming websites and developers but never speaking of the conflict of interest. If I remember correctly there was the person from IGN who gave DA2 a great review score there and then got a job at Bioware. Yeah that doesn't look even remotely seedy.
And nowhere does this show more clearly (For me anyway) Than the zero punctuation review. So the guy who practically etched a name for himself by overexaggerating flaws in games has only one thing to say about the ME 3 ending: "It could have been worse." Yeah, that's true, but then so could have the Hindenburg crash.
On a point of defense for Zero-Puntcuation... he pretty much shat on the game as a whole rather than focusing on the ending, which is pretty much what he does with every game. Also, he doesn't strike me as the type of person who - especially as a critic playing games at a breakneck pace to review them weekly - gets emotionally invested enough in his characters to really feel the impact of the ending like a non-professional player would. I think it is to his credit that he neither mocked people who didn't care for the ending nor attempted to pretend he actually cared enough about the ending to be upset about it personally.
Re-watch the end of the video, read the text. He does make a dig at all the "fanboys" angry at the ending.
This is probably just my inner Zero Punctuation fan talking here but Yahtzee taking a shot at people is kinda par for the course so I'm not really fazed by that.