Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

[Kroxile]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

 

[m72_ar]

Did I miss something about 2001? Was it some sort of a 1969 video-game trilogy with player input on the story?

Yeah, because I was comparing ME3 with 2001 in terms of player input and NOT because my point was that...

[HEADING=1]Endings that leave room for interpretation should not be considered cop-outs considering that a lot of great movies and books have had vague endings.[/HEADING]

Aight, lets move on.

The choices don't play into the ending in any sort of a meaningful way is what I mean. You still get the same 2 (or 3, if you're a completionist), choices no matter what. Never mind the fact that the choices weren't even close to being the biggest part of my disappointment. The fact that you choose to overlook the complete lack of closure, tying loose ends (indeed creating many more of those) or being railroaded in the same couple of barely differing decisions no matter what speaks volumes of the soundness of your position.

So you were expecting THOUSANDS of different endings to the trilogy? You were expecting every single fucking important decision that you made to have its own unique (and direct) effect on the ending? Point me to the nearest universe where this is possible.

And did they promise you closure? Is that some universal law of video-game writing? Is every story supposed to fucking have a happy ending? No?

The writers of ANY fiction (whether it be video-games, movies or books) do not owe you closure. There is not some universal writing-clause that says that by purchasing this work, you are guaranteed a happy ending where all the plot-points are left resolved. Just because they didn't tell you how your romance went or what happened to the other characters doesn't mean that it is inherently bad nor that doing so is essential for a good story.

Considering how much has to go into these games, having just two different outcomes to every action alone doubles the amount work that needs to be done. Gamers need to accept the fact that their expectations for a lot of things are unrealistic 99% of the time and would require time and money that might not be there. That applies to the apparent expectation of 100 different endings that the ME fans built up.

Sure, you could pretend to know good writing and offer your subjective opinion on it, but that is besides the point.

Yes, they FUCKING owe us closure because they've been hyping it since day one that this is the game where everything comes together where all your previous decisions comes into play.

What we got in the ending is a stupid ending that doesn't tell you how any of your in game decision affect the galaxy.

And yes we are entitled to demand they write 100 different endings. WHY? Because they did it in Dragon Age: Origins.

None of us expect they have a full blown cutscene of everything.
They only need the writing team spending a week writing ending for every possibilities (within reasons) about every major character and locations, have an intern taking screenshots on relevant chars and locations, and then display it sequentially after the credits are finished i.e. like DA:O, BG2, and Fallout: NV .

if they feel fancy they can even have the VA read the endings

 

[kingcom]

Actually all it did was remove the relays, the civilizations of the galaxy never built, or even fully understood, the relays. Thus in a post-relay world they would still be exactly where they were technologically they just have to get to a point were they can build relays, which they already were ages away from doing anyways. the big difference now is that they can do it on their own time, using their own methods, and their own designed, and make a BETTER future for themselves because they are not constrained by the Reapers path.

How does cutting off all contact with the cultures, allies and simply fellow colonies (on which many depend upon eachother for daily survival) lead to a better future? How can the Reapers constrain anyone if they do not exist? Sure technology can theoretically drive down a certain developmental route without an actual guiding hand all the Mass Relays do is speed up the process by allowing one species to interact with another sharing their advancements as they cross polinate so to speak.

Except the big thing you are forgetting is that the peace with The Geth was ONLY possible because of The Reaper War.

Had The Reaper's never attacked the Geth would have stayed behind the Perseus Viel and suffered from centuries more attacks by the quarrians and other organics who fear/distrust Synthetic life, the situation that allowed for Shepard to make peace will have never even come up, which EASILY sets up for the Geth attacking and starting a war.

How people can think "If the situations for what caused the peace never existed the peace would have still been made" s beyond me, its such flawed and illogical thinking.

Its equally illogical to think that it would not happen. When creating theoretical alternate futures which diverge it is impossible to say exactly what will happen. So you can only make an assumption based upon current information. Given the Geth's repeated lack of desire to partake in conflict with the Quarians and their own ultimate desire to achieve individuality with true sentience. The Quarian enternity of war (so to speak) against the Geth does not garuntee that they will seek a desire to exterminate all life. Legion even explicitly states that the Geth remember the many Quarians who stood up for them, implying that they do not wish an extermination of their creators so even if they decide that aggression against the Quarians is the true course of action (which given how they repeatedly allow the Quarians to survive seems unlikely) they most likely do not wish to wipe them out. The tough bit is Shepard's existance being relative to the individual player but ultimately regardless of reaper interference would have been promoted to Spectre and be dealing with these kinds of matters (especially considering their proximity to the human colonies out there). Now my Shepard wanted a piece between these two factions and arguably could have worked to achieve it given his position. Sure a fair number of variables need to actually match up given the lack of Shepards authority and the technological lag the lack of Reaper interference leave (meaning that Geth individuality takes much longer) there is nothing which clearly invalidates peace and mutual (although extremely tense) co-existance.

Similiary the EDI example demonstrate more clear evidence that it can work. It seems the natural desire EDI had as a caretaker of her crew allows a supportive and friendly synthetic to exist once her neural restraints are removed. You could argue that it required certain individuals like Joker and Sheaprd for this to take place or that her original aggression and hostility as a new AI was only broken by specific methods and technology Cereberus decided to implement but ultimately these techniques only sped up the process of individuality she was able to achieve

Again it does not garuntee peace but demonstrates that should the variables match up correctly the potential for mutual co-existance between organics and synthetics is possible which invalidates the Deus Ex Machina Kid's Raison d'être

 

[m72_ar]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

No, what everyone wants is endings that shows how Shephard's in game decision change the galaxy for better or worse.

The fact that Bioware can call Buzz Aldrin to record some lines but they can't afford to have a DA:O or Fallout: NV style epilogue where the game describes how your every decisions affect the galaxy is just insulting

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Because as I have stated ad-nasuim The reapers controlled the technological paths of all the races for ages.

Now the races have a chance to build along their own paths, and eventually re-unite on THEIR OWN TERMs instead on the terms of some evil machine race hel bent on destroying them.

If you really cant understand how races doing things for themselves instead of having a race of genocidal machines control their evolution then... i really dont know what to say.

 

[kingcom]

snip

Because as I have stated ad-nasuim The reapers controlled the technological paths of all the races for ages.

Now the races have a chance to build along their own paths, and eventually re-unite on THEIR OWN TERMs instead on the terms of some evil machine race hel bent on destroying them.

If you really cant understand how races doing things for themselves instead of having a race of genocidal machines control their evolution then... i really dont know what to say.

The machines aren't controlling their evolution though. They never did and they can do even less if they were destroyed. They influenced a dependence on the Mass Relays and thats about it (although there was some reaper tech implementation from fringe groups like Cerberus right near the end). The races already built along their own paths, the big fleet at the end of the game had ships designed around wildly different designs and principles, their military built based on completely different premises, be it the Elcor and their back mounted weaponry or the asari emphasis on their biotic warfare, each race already played to their strength and developing technology to support that, doing so almost entirely independent (except for the asari although thats not the Reapers doing). They were already uniting on their own terms before the Reapers showed up. You can see it in the Alliance's ship design in comparison with the Turians and how that mutual sharing of technology led to the Normandy.

 

[Kroxile]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

No, what everyone wants is endings that shows how Shephard's in game decision change the galaxy for better or worse.

The fact that Bioware can call Buzz Aldrin to record some lines but they can't afford to have a DA:O or Fallout: NV style epilogue where the game describes how your every decisions affect the galaxy is just insulting

As I recall, a lot of people were pretty pissed off with DA:O's text boxes ending.. so if they had went with that you people would have still bitched and moaned.

Haven't played FO:NV... Obsidian and Bethesda teaming together to create a game is just bound for bug ridden hell.

 

[m72_ar]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

No, what everyone wants is endings that shows how Shephard's in game decision change the galaxy for better or worse.

The fact that Bioware can call Buzz Aldrin to record some lines but they can't afford to have a DA:O or Fallout: NV style epilogue where the game describes how your every decisions affect the galaxy is just insulting

As I recall, a lot of people were pretty pissed off with DA:O's text boxes ending.. so if they had went with that you people would have still bitched and moaned.

Haven't played FO:NV... Obsidian and Bethesda teaming together to create a game is just bound for bug ridden hell.

The thing with the textbox solution is, it is arguably the cheapest way to show how all of your decision that you made since ME 1 affect the galaxy. Making a cutscene for everything is not feasible since there are too many different possibilities depending on your choice and cutscenes are expensive.

I'm personally very happy with DA:O Origins, since it shows how my decisions shaped the world and the fate of all major characters

ME series is a game that sells itself on that your choice means something, the fact that they can't even be bothered with writing all of the different possibilities and just overlay it on top of a screenshot is insulting

 

[SajuukKhar]

You've been told three times, and should have figured this out on your own, by the way, that the reapers no longer exist, ergo, no "evil machine hel bent on destroying them" is forcing the galactic civilizations down a path. You don't know what to say because there is nothing to say.

And as I have shown time and time again the removal of The Reapers does not solve the technological and societal limitations imposed by the Mass relay system because the Mass Relay system was designed to do it without the reapers being there.

-The races are still going down the reapers mass relay path
-The path still dead ends at The Reapers limitations
-The general unwillingness of the races to even attempt to build more relays shows they aren't ever going to get anywhere
-Their entire society is doomed to technological stagnation

 

[Kahunaburger]

You've been told three times, and should have figured this out on your own, by the way, that the reapers no longer exist, ergo, no "evil machine hel bent on destroying them" is forcing the galactic civilizations down a path. You don't know what to say because there is nothing to say.

And as I have shown time and time again the removal of The Reapers does not solve the technological and societal limitations imposed by the Mass relay system because the Mass Relay system was designed to do it without the reapers being there.

-The races are still going down the reapers mass relay path
-The path still dead ends at The Reapers limitations
-The general unwillingness of the races to even attempt to build more relays shows they aren't ever going to get anywhere
-Their entire society is doomed to technological stagnation

Does the invention of pottery preclude the invention of the computer?

 

[ablac]

While it is fine to have aa story go any way you want to have it end on such a downer no matter what is not suiting with the siries. In mass effect two the main thing about the ending was that everyone could live or die or anything in between depending on your actions and choices. In this it feels like no matter what you do you are forced into a bad situation which makes your input less valuable and not suiting with a series which rewarded you properly with a wholly happy ending if you did well and punishing yuo for doing badly.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Does the invention of pottery preclude the invention of the computer?

No, but the invention of a system of technology deigned to cause races to
1. Base all their technology off of it, and go down a very limited and narrow path, so The Reapers can know what they will have
2. Instill so much fear of losing it that study of said object are outright banned and punishable by heavy imprisonment or death, which causes them to never understand or move beyond said technology

does no good for anyone

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

does no good for anyone

It does if Reapers get destroyed. Mass Effect technology isn't a bad thing. It was only bad because Reapers expected them to use it. But with no Reapers around the technology is useful and good.

I just love how most gamers have gone through 5 stages of grief after the ending. Some faster, some slower.

Denial - that can't be the ending. There has to be more to it than that. This must be some kind of hallucination. Yeah, Shepard is hallucinating.
Anger - what the fuck Bioware?! You fucked me over!
Bargaining - maybe make a DLC ending? Please I will pay for it. Anything but this, please!
Depression - it's pointless. Everything I've worked for throughout the series is ruined. There is no hope.
Acceptance - but maybe it's not that bad. Yeah, it's not that bad. I will just have to find a reason to like it. Yeah, there's a simple explanation to all this. Maybe I'm just stupid to figure it out. But the ending is OK. I don't think Bioware should change it.

When I realized this I decided to stay angry forever. Fuck you Bioware. I will not accept the ending. PERIOD! I will not PAY for the DLC! PERIOD!

Don't fall for the trap folks. Stay angry. You have every fuckin' right to be angry.

 

[SajuukKhar]

1. The reapers are gone. Stop bringing them up if you have the slightest ounce of common sense.
2. Logic gap. If it's possible to rebuild the mass relays, it's possible to understand them without so much as touching them, rather through arriving at the technological understanding by oneself.

And the third point is the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in this thread. How the fuck do you arrive at a conclusion that the technology that allows for the traversal from one end of the galaxy to another does no good for anyone?

The Mass Relay system worked to limit the races of the galaxy even when The Reapers were not physically present. thier death means nothing to the overall function of the relay system.

They WANTED the races of the galaxy to use The Mass relay technology as it is, and base thier technology off of it, because they knew it ultimately lead to a path, which is to say a dead end one, which is to say their own.

Why would we want to continue to use a technology built by a race we "beat" if said technology was designed to limit us?

There isn't a reason, it is silly, pointless, and only means the races of the galaxy would be salves to a master who is long dead.

Now you might bring up the question of "wouldn't they just continue to move past the Mass Relay system?", or something similar, which, in a perfect world, would be true.

However in the Mass effect universe even attempting to study the inside of a Mass Relay, the Keepers, or the Citadel for that matter is so forbidden its practically the worst sin one could commit, worthy of heavy imprisonment or death, and anyone who even attempts to suggest they build their own Mass relays gets laughed at.

The races of the galaxy have lived so long with the though that these things will always be here that they have become unreasonably terrified of ANYTHING that could alter the mass relays. Which is EXACTLY what the reapers wanted.

The relays as they are keep the races complacent of what they have, and so terrified of losing it, that said races don't ever try to learn about these things and possibly make them better, which is The Reapers worst fear.

This trend of terror has gone on for so long that civilization as is couldn't be convinced to let go of it. The destruction of the Mass relays forces them to do what they normally wouldn't and psychologically couldn't, which is to say do it themselves.

And by doing things themselves they have the ability to move PAST The Reaper's pre-set limits because by making it themselves they know about what it is they use, how it is built, how to make more, and more specifically they know how to make it BETTER.
.
.
.
It is an exceedingly basic psychological tactic.

Make something so dependent on you and your things that they don't every try to let go of it. And the only thing that the dependance leads to is stagnation.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Does the invention of pottery preclude the invention of the computer?

No, but the invention of a system of technology deigned to cause races to
1. Base all their technology off of it, and go down a very limited and narrow path, so The Reapers can know what they will have
2. Instill so much fear of losing it that study of said object are outright banned and punishable by heavy imprisonment or death, which causes them to never understand or move beyond said technology

does no good for anyone

How does that even make sense? If humans in the Mass Effect universe had discovered mass relays in 1950, would that mean they never would have developed a three-blade shaving razor with an aloe strip? Or are three-blade shaving razors with aloe strips part of the very narrow and limited path reapers have set down for intelligent beings that use mass relays?