The ending of the 3rd game makes me never want to play through ME1 and 2 ever again. Quite sad really. I had planned on doing a playthrough of ME1-3 over the course of a few weeks at some point. Not going to happen anymorefeeqmatic said:
Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!
- Thread starter Erttheking
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I finished it last night, and I have to say, I was conflicted by the endings.
The results themselves, well, they sort of make sense. The previous cycle was to destroy all advanced civilization to prevent the growth and spread of mechanical life, which would result in the permanent destruction of all organic life, ever, period. Allowing the primitive species to exist and evolve allowed organic life to continue. However with what Shepard did, it was obvious that organic life had reached a point of evolution and technological advancement that this cycle was no longer viable.
Command and Destroy endings were basically just resets on the ENTIRE cycle, bringing almost all galactic civilization back to square 1. Forcing them to rebuild the relays, the citadel, all that jazz. It was basically just a MUCH longer reset on the cycle, which will eventually settle back into what it was.
Synthesis ending made the least amount of sense, and involved the biggest stretch of the imagination. That signal somehow rewrote all DNA of everything, everywhere in the galaxy? Yea, space magic on that one. But, it was said that was the pinnacle of evolution, and the eventual path of all things. So sounded like synthesis was the only option to permanently and forever end the cycle.
Personally, I was disappointed by the endings. There was basically no variety, and a LITTLE more closure beyond "oh hey the normandy crashed on some planet somewhere, some people survived long enough to make a civilization that may or may not have any technology" for every single ending variation.
Sure, I can infer a lot of information on my own about how things might have turned out, but then it just comes down to, ok, geth and quarian resolution based on what i decided, they are locked in their own system without relays...........
krogans are no issue for anyone, genophage or not, locked in their own system, rachni, living or dead, no issue for anyone, turians, asari and humans all spend the next millenium or so recovering, then stay locked in their system,
salarians, they didnt get hit too hard, but again, locked in their own system, and worse, theyve brought the yahg to their planet which is now running loose.
Theres really not much more I can say, great great game, really bad endings. Sure, you can make some sense and get some closure out of them, but they could, and damn well should, have been better. Still worth playing.
The results themselves, well, they sort of make sense. The previous cycle was to destroy all advanced civilization to prevent the growth and spread of mechanical life, which would result in the permanent destruction of all organic life, ever, period. Allowing the primitive species to exist and evolve allowed organic life to continue. However with what Shepard did, it was obvious that organic life had reached a point of evolution and technological advancement that this cycle was no longer viable.
Command and Destroy endings were basically just resets on the ENTIRE cycle, bringing almost all galactic civilization back to square 1. Forcing them to rebuild the relays, the citadel, all that jazz. It was basically just a MUCH longer reset on the cycle, which will eventually settle back into what it was.
Synthesis ending made the least amount of sense, and involved the biggest stretch of the imagination. That signal somehow rewrote all DNA of everything, everywhere in the galaxy? Yea, space magic on that one. But, it was said that was the pinnacle of evolution, and the eventual path of all things. So sounded like synthesis was the only option to permanently and forever end the cycle.
Personally, I was disappointed by the endings. There was basically no variety, and a LITTLE more closure beyond "oh hey the normandy crashed on some planet somewhere, some people survived long enough to make a civilization that may or may not have any technology" for every single ending variation.
Sure, I can infer a lot of information on my own about how things might have turned out, but then it just comes down to, ok, geth and quarian resolution based on what i decided, they are locked in their own system without relays...........
krogans are no issue for anyone, genophage or not, locked in their own system, rachni, living or dead, no issue for anyone, turians, asari and humans all spend the next millenium or so recovering, then stay locked in their system,
salarians, they didnt get hit too hard, but again, locked in their own system, and worse, theyve brought the yahg to their planet which is now running loose.
Theres really not much more I can say, great great game, really bad endings. Sure, you can make some sense and get some closure out of them, but they could, and damn well should, have been better. Still worth playing.
Everyone who is freaking out about the relays consider this necessity is the mother of all invention. Prior to their destruction there was no need to build new Mass Relays, my guess is it will take the Asari only a century or two to build some new relays once they sort out their planet. The Salarians might be a bit quicker on that, humans and Turians will likely take longer and the Krogans maybe the longest of all but the destruction of the relays were just a great way to signify the destruction and the end of the reaper threat.
Everyone seems to forget that the relays and all that other tech that the races 'found' were there to control how the races progressed technologically so that they would be easier to 'harvest'. The destruction of the Citadel and the mass relays signify the end of reaper influence on the course of galactic civilization, the end of the last cycle.
These endings are not bad people, they just take a bit more thought than spelling everything out for you by saying 'so and so survived and married a varren' It lets you answer all the really important stuff based upon the game you played and it ultimately allows you to make one of three very significant choices in a way that doesn't feel contrived or thrown in.
Everyone seems to forget that the relays and all that other tech that the races 'found' were there to control how the races progressed technologically so that they would be easier to 'harvest'. The destruction of the Citadel and the mass relays signify the end of reaper influence on the course of galactic civilization, the end of the last cycle.
These endings are not bad people, they just take a bit more thought than spelling everything out for you by saying 'so and so survived and married a varren' It lets you answer all the really important stuff based upon the game you played and it ultimately allows you to make one of three very significant choices in a way that doesn't feel contrived or thrown in.
But
Furthermore, if the Reapers really wanted to stop the cycle why didnt they just destroy the relays themselves long ago. There are so many holes in the logic here it just makes no sense. If this were on of several endings it would be cool, but to make it a key part of EVERY ending with no sense of closure or epilouge just burns.
But if the relays can (and probably will) simply be rebuilt, how does this stop horrible deadly cycle that reapers are a part of. The motivations make no sense. 2 of the 3 endings are essentially a reset button but they do not in any way stop the nature of organics to seek technological advancement. This renders the entire games motivation null and void.synobal said:
Furthermore, if the Reapers really wanted to stop the cycle why didnt they just destroy the relays themselves long ago. There are so many holes in the logic here it just makes no sense. If this were on of several endings it would be cool, but to make it a key part of EVERY ending with no sense of closure or epilouge just burns.
You assume that what the catalyst said was infallible. He spoke from only the experience of one race (presumably the reapers started out as a race or AI or something). Sure in each cycle there was conflict between synthetic or organic but that doesn't mean that can't change. I'd like to think that the Quarians were very close to that when they made the Geth if they just hadn't freaked. There is hope, and just because the catalyst says its inevitable doesn't make it so. The reapers were a parody of 'god' or gods. Just look at their solution to this problem. Kill most everyone and turn them into reapers as a way to 'preserve' life and they thought this was good because they ultimately caused those races to become something more in the form of a reaper.feeqmatic said:
Sure they were resets switches, but that doesn't mean that everything has to be the same the next time around. Shepherd proved that when he made it to the catalyst despite what the reapers imply there is still hope.
Also I'd say it is illogical to assume that the relays will be built exactly as they were. I guess I should of clarified that. Now that the relays are gone each civilization is free to progress uniquely technologically speaking. If they do ever set a game in the Mass Effect universe again I wouldn't be surprised to see all the galactic civilizations not relying upon the 'Mass Effect' so much. That isn't to say it won't be used but they will likely find new ways to achieve significant distances and perhaps even intergalactic distances.
Honestly, it was 100% pitch-perfect up to and including Anderson's death. And then it just veered wildly and took the bullshit train to stupid town. It's like something I would have written when I was 14.
I wasn't asking for a lot. It would be so easy to implement. Give Shepard some big morally perilous choice, fine. And then whatever he chooses, it kills the Reapers, and the Citadel implodes and disappears. No one knows WHAT Shepard did -- just that he did it.
Montage of reapers dying across the galaxy.
Intergalactic celebration.
A funeral. Squad members eulogize Shepard and his actions throughout all three games. Love interest cries.
Montage of the galaxy twenty years down the line.
Ten second clips of the various races, in whatever state I left them. How hard would that be?
Wrex/Wreav/Grunt/Eva/any-combination-thereof, standing on the surface of Tuchanka, with or without a bunch of Krogan children, depending on whether I cured the Genophage.
Quarians and/or Geth plowing the soil on Rannoch, depending on how I resolved the war.
The Hanar swimming beneath, or sadly absent from, the oceans of their home-world, depending on whether I saved them.
And then a brief scene where the two squadmates I used the most meet up and look out at the stars and epilogue things.
Garrus: "Do you think he's still out there somewhere?"
Tali: "Yes."
Garrus: "...how?"
Tali: "It's what I choose to believe."
SLAM TO BLACK
ROLL CREDITS
THE END
This Matrix Architect starchild bullshit is a slap in the face. Besides being immature, poorly-written, would-be-tragedy; besides being vague, alienating, impenetrable, and unsatisfying; besides all that, it invalidates every choice you've ever made throughout all three games. It renders every decision moot.
And we all know the reason.
It's railroading shit together to set up for DLC, an MMO, or both.
Also: all those militaries stranded in Earth orbit with FTL travel? Yeah they're going to fucking destroy one other, vying for land and resources. I give it a few decades before the Krogan have wiped everybody else out and resort to cannibalism to offset overpopulation.
And how the hell did my squad get back aboard the Normandy after being blasted on the way to the beam? And why was the Normandy escaping through a relay while there was a battle going on? And aren't the dextro-aliens all going to starve to death in that jungle? And why do I give a fuck anymore?
I wasn't asking for a lot. It would be so easy to implement. Give Shepard some big morally perilous choice, fine. And then whatever he chooses, it kills the Reapers, and the Citadel implodes and disappears. No one knows WHAT Shepard did -- just that he did it.
Montage of reapers dying across the galaxy.
Intergalactic celebration.
A funeral. Squad members eulogize Shepard and his actions throughout all three games. Love interest cries.
Montage of the galaxy twenty years down the line.
Ten second clips of the various races, in whatever state I left them. How hard would that be?
Wrex/Wreav/Grunt/Eva/any-combination-thereof, standing on the surface of Tuchanka, with or without a bunch of Krogan children, depending on whether I cured the Genophage.
Quarians and/or Geth plowing the soil on Rannoch, depending on how I resolved the war.
The Hanar swimming beneath, or sadly absent from, the oceans of their home-world, depending on whether I saved them.
And then a brief scene where the two squadmates I used the most meet up and look out at the stars and epilogue things.
Garrus: "Do you think he's still out there somewhere?"
Tali: "Yes."
Garrus: "...how?"
Tali: "It's what I choose to believe."
SLAM TO BLACK
ROLL CREDITS
THE END
This Matrix Architect starchild bullshit is a slap in the face. Besides being immature, poorly-written, would-be-tragedy; besides being vague, alienating, impenetrable, and unsatisfying; besides all that, it invalidates every choice you've ever made throughout all three games. It renders every decision moot.
And we all know the reason.
It's railroading shit together to set up for DLC, an MMO, or both.
Also: all those militaries stranded in Earth orbit with FTL travel? Yeah they're going to fucking destroy one other, vying for land and resources. I give it a few decades before the Krogan have wiped everybody else out and resort to cannibalism to offset overpopulation.
And how the hell did my squad get back aboard the Normandy after being blasted on the way to the beam? And why was the Normandy escaping through a relay while there was a battle going on? And aren't the dextro-aliens all going to starve to death in that jungle? And why do I give a fuck anymore?
teknoarcanist said:
No it wasn't, you should really look a bit deeper into the ending. It wasn't dropped out of no where, there was a lot of subtle hints in regards to how the game was going to end and the choice you would have to make.
I think perhaps Bioware are suffering a bit from their own success, back in the day they use to only hit a very small target audience of people who seriously enjoyed RPGs and fantasy/scifi literature.
But Mass Effect really did a good job of crossing and blending the genre lines and so we have this Massive influx of people who are not well versed in story telling.
Please resist your knee jerk reaction to the endings people and look a bit deeper, maybe read some really good science fiction works and then come back and really look at the Mass Effect story across all three games. I think you'll find it was really very well done in the end.
We really don't know that anyone was stuck on earth or that those fleets didn't get away. I know it is tempting to assume that the cut scene showed the crucible going off in real time but we don't know that for sure after all the Normandy got away and they apparently had time to pick up your squad mates off earth for extraction.
Oh and the Krogan didn't bring their females to earth, they are to precious to risk losing still.
No he spoke from having set up and seen this cycle repeat itself countless times. If there is a chance for things to change, then why would they come to "reap" every 50,000 years like clockwork. This is especially crazy considering that there were at least 2 clear examples of synthetic and organic life coexisting effectively in this cycle. The logic requires far too much of a reach to have it make sense. I get the point of the themes and logic behind that choice, but it wasnt much of a choice to make.synobal said:
What would have been better is that your decisions up until that point led the catalyst to make certain choices. A paragon decision playthrough would show the catlyst that the reapers were no longer needed and its clear from the get, the krogan, etc that this cycle can preserve life. A renegade playthrough would show that the cycle must continue or be controlled, and a third option for doing the whole nonsensical synergy thing. That would make the players choices matter. Bitter sweet for every option is not what we played 5 years for.
The motivations of the Reapers make no sense whatsoever.
They want to protect organics from getting destroyed by synthetics by destroying organics? This makes no fucking sense (also, the idea of being "preserved" by being liquefied and being pumped into a giant robot that looks like your species is fucking stupid too). Why can't the Reapers just decide to protect organic life from other synthetics without going around eating people?
And it isn't like there was some super powerful synthetic force that wanted to destroy all the organics either (other than the Reapers, who are quite possibly some of the stupidest villains in fiction ever). The Geth? Alright, but from the Quarian missions, the Geth seem to have just a slight advantage over the Quarian fleet. Are you telling me that if Shepard assembled the same fleet against the Geth that he assembled against the Reapers that he couldn't go destroy all of them? Again, this makes no fucking sense, and really just seems to be an extremely lazy way to end a series by writers who really should be writing shitty Star Wars fanfics.
They want to protect organics from getting destroyed by synthetics by destroying organics? This makes no fucking sense (also, the idea of being "preserved" by being liquefied and being pumped into a giant robot that looks like your species is fucking stupid too). Why can't the Reapers just decide to protect organic life from other synthetics without going around eating people?
And it isn't like there was some super powerful synthetic force that wanted to destroy all the organics either (other than the Reapers, who are quite possibly some of the stupidest villains in fiction ever). The Geth? Alright, but from the Quarian missions, the Geth seem to have just a slight advantage over the Quarian fleet. Are you telling me that if Shepard assembled the same fleet against the Geth that he assembled against the Reapers that he couldn't go destroy all of them? Again, this makes no fucking sense, and really just seems to be an extremely lazy way to end a series by writers who really should be writing shitty Star Wars fanfics.
I will say this, most people don't like to be depressed, I love happy endings, this just left me empty inside, also the plot hole of the normandy abandoning the battle was just weird and out of place stupid.
Personally I don't care if the ending is happy or sad. I just want to know what Happens!
Lets say I chose to control the reapers. What did I do once I had control? Did I turn them into some intergalactic peace keeping force or did I follow the illusive mans dream and use them to control the galaxy and help man kind ascend to power? The outcome could be based on your reputation.
If I destroyed the reapers. Was the Catalyst right? Do Synthetics rise up in the future and kill everyone?
I NEED MORE INFORMATION!
If I cured the genophage. Do the Krogan live peacefully or do they get pissed off at other races and cause another war? Do we then have to ask the rachni for help against the Krogan(Twist/Irony)?
What happens to the love interest?
Do the Geth and the Quarians live Peacefully?
If normandy wenT down from the blast (in all three endings) Does that mean EVERY SHIP IN THE GALAXY took a dive?
Did Jacob name his baby Shepard after all?
Come On! It would not have taken bioware a week to answer all of these questions. All it would take is one brief write up at the end of the game that reflected the outcome of your decisions. I don't see how they could leave SO MANY Questions Hanging!
Sigh* [Rant Concluded]
I feel better now.
Lets say I chose to control the reapers. What did I do once I had control? Did I turn them into some intergalactic peace keeping force or did I follow the illusive mans dream and use them to control the galaxy and help man kind ascend to power? The outcome could be based on your reputation.
If I destroyed the reapers. Was the Catalyst right? Do Synthetics rise up in the future and kill everyone?
I NEED MORE INFORMATION!
If I cured the genophage. Do the Krogan live peacefully or do they get pissed off at other races and cause another war? Do we then have to ask the rachni for help against the Krogan(Twist/Irony)?
What happens to the love interest?
Do the Geth and the Quarians live Peacefully?
If normandy wenT down from the blast (in all three endings) Does that mean EVERY SHIP IN THE GALAXY took a dive?
Did Jacob name his baby Shepard after all?
Come On! It would not have taken bioware a week to answer all of these questions. All it would take is one brief write up at the end of the game that reflected the outcome of your decisions. I don't see how they could leave SO MANY Questions Hanging!
Sigh* [Rant Concluded]
I feel better now.
feeqmatic said:
Not true all the cycles they harvest they harvest before organic and synthetic life come to a head in their 'war' for order and choas as it did for the time that birthed the reapers. The reapers are likely an AI or virtualized intelligence of some race. That saw what happened with them and assumed that organics and synthetics were destined to never make peace. It may of even been right, but Shepherd showing up there at the crucible to make that choice shows that it may of also been wrong. It acknowledges this, and lets Shepherd ultimately choose, though it does so only after telling you its beliefs and motivations. You can't take the assumptions of the catalyst to be 100% true. What ultimately happens in any of the three endings are still ultimately unknown.
A good ending does leaves you wanting more.Zac Sands said:
So do terrible endings that fail to explain anything.synobal said:A good ending does leaves you wanting more.
Why are people moaning about a downer ending? I'm happy there's an actual downer ending. It beats the usual romp of Hollywood and other industry giants just giving deus ex machina endings or having a happy ending when really, there shouldn't be. At least Bioware isn't stuck to outside rules in having to change things to make the majority happy like with 'Terminator: Salvation'.
From what I gather, the complaints aren't about the endings being downers, but about them being contrived and bordering on ass pull/diabolus ex machina. As I said somewhere before, from what I've seen of the game so far, BW tried hard to make it "dark, gritty and edgy". Maybe too hard. People seem to be complaining mostly about the lack of closure.MrSuperman said:
Well, guess they'll just have to throw money on the ME MMO for that, huh!
The problem isn't that it's a downer ending. It's that the villains make no fucking sense, all three endings are essentially the same in terms of the consequences, and the choices you made during all three games really don't matter.MrSuperman said:
Here is the problem. Bioware in every game up until now has allowed the players to choose their path and by proxy their ending. In KOTOR you go darkside or light side. In DAO you do countless things to affect the aftermath of your land, and so on. I played through the game as a goody good we are the world hippie paragon because i wanted to save the galaxy. That was the story i wanted and the ending I actively sought. Then i would have chosen another play through where im not so good and the galaxy goes un saved, or where im really bad and i control the reapers, or some other options in between.Combine Rustler said:
If Bioware wanted to tell a bitter sweet story about the entire galaxy ending as we know it (in mass effects universe of course) then they should not have given us a choice. They should not have given us a character driven story where we would become attatched and invested in the story over different ways only to yank that control from us.
For me the pinnacle of the story and the point where i almost shed tears is where Legion refers to himself as "I" instead of "we". That was going to go down as one of the greatest moments in gaming history in my book. It was powerful, deep, and downright inspiring. And everything that led to that point was perfectly woven. I fought a god damn reaper solo essentially to make it happen. However all of that work is voided by the decisions i make at the end. The synergy decision maybe keeps it, but it still costs us the galactic relays which completely alters the reality of the galaxy as a whole. So it still keeps the get from pursuing their own destiny.
So even if there were no plot holes or vaguely motivated villains, ambiguous aftermath etc, the game would still have failed as a game of choices because your choices dont add up to what you were trying to attain in most situations.
Worst of all, it makes me NOT WANT TO PLAY THE GAME AGAIN. I know that i will not get much different out of the experience because all of the endings are unacceptable.
I'm not sure if these work, so if they don't, please don't yell at me. lol But, this might interest some people. Warning: Spoilers.
http://www.justpushstart.com/2012/03/mass-effect-3-endings-guide/
http://www.justpushstart.com/2012/03/mass-effect-3-endings-guide/
I went from hard core <3 of BioWare to hard core </3 after DA2, and even with all of the stuff that pissed me off about the direction of the plot from ME to ME2 and then into ME3, I was okay with the explanation of the cycle and the reasons for why it existed and the method for stopping it. Still, I hate the ending from nearly every angle imaginable.
A) The setup. I don't care if the Reapers were designed to be eventually bested as a failsafe for if the cycle were ever found to be unnecessary, there's no way I can step myself down from 'The Reapers are this wholly unstoppable force of destruction' to 'You can run an effective partisan campaign against them like they're the Nazis occupying France, and even sit in one of the least clandestine sniping spots in the history of civilization for three days actively fighting the enemy without drawing any attention to yourself.' Or that they would walk around like unwieldy crabs while getting destroyed by SINGLE ORGANIC LIFEFORMS or orbital bombardment without reacting remotely appropriately.
B) The shoehorn. I watched this idiot plow through his game in the most horrific fashion. Failure, death, quest skipping, then launching the final mission as soon as it became available. When he went down finally, I thought 'Well, I could see that coming a mile away." Then of course, like it was the ending of a MW game, in a drunken stupor, Shepard gets up and finishes it. Which is apparently how it goes no matter how you perform in the game leading up to that point.
C) The exposition. Not the conduit, the conversation before that. They tried to make IM the focal point in 2, which is just baffling to me; a galaxy obliterating threat isn't interesting enough, there's got to be a guy who pisses in baby carriages and wants to rule the galaxy while teabagging it from low earth orbit? I found IM annoying in 2 (as I did the working for Cerberus stuff), but in 3 it's just inane.
D) The setup. I do not fault them for a second for wanting to sever as many connections to images and actors established in the trilogy in order to move forward. Horrible writing and decision making aside, they have established a robust universe that deserves more games, and shouldn't be bound to deliver seventeen characters that may or may not exist. Regardless, the crash landing and the 'let me tell you a story' bits just feel awful. What the hell did I even listen to, Joker and Yeoman Rand's grandchild telling his grandchild about why they're stranded there? It felt lazy, it felt cheap, and that's coming from someone who would have been happy with a splash screen with text as a summary.
A) The setup. I don't care if the Reapers were designed to be eventually bested as a failsafe for if the cycle were ever found to be unnecessary, there's no way I can step myself down from 'The Reapers are this wholly unstoppable force of destruction' to 'You can run an effective partisan campaign against them like they're the Nazis occupying France, and even sit in one of the least clandestine sniping spots in the history of civilization for three days actively fighting the enemy without drawing any attention to yourself.' Or that they would walk around like unwieldy crabs while getting destroyed by SINGLE ORGANIC LIFEFORMS or orbital bombardment without reacting remotely appropriately.
B) The shoehorn. I watched this idiot plow through his game in the most horrific fashion. Failure, death, quest skipping, then launching the final mission as soon as it became available. When he went down finally, I thought 'Well, I could see that coming a mile away." Then of course, like it was the ending of a MW game, in a drunken stupor, Shepard gets up and finishes it. Which is apparently how it goes no matter how you perform in the game leading up to that point.
C) The exposition. Not the conduit, the conversation before that. They tried to make IM the focal point in 2, which is just baffling to me; a galaxy obliterating threat isn't interesting enough, there's got to be a guy who pisses in baby carriages and wants to rule the galaxy while teabagging it from low earth orbit? I found IM annoying in 2 (as I did the working for Cerberus stuff), but in 3 it's just inane.
D) The setup. I do not fault them for a second for wanting to sever as many connections to images and actors established in the trilogy in order to move forward. Horrible writing and decision making aside, they have established a robust universe that deserves more games, and shouldn't be bound to deliver seventeen characters that may or may not exist. Regardless, the crash landing and the 'let me tell you a story' bits just feel awful. What the hell did I even listen to, Joker and Yeoman Rand's grandchild telling his grandchild about why they're stranded there? It felt lazy, it felt cheap, and that's coming from someone who would have been happy with a splash screen with text as a summary.