Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

[hobohazard]

after a hour or so of thinking about it, i thought of a few things that haven't shown up hear
1. in the destroy ending, your killing a lot more then you first considered. if you pick that ending, you have sentenced the quarians to extinction. since your destroying all technology, every single quarian's evo suit will fail, thus killing them all (also any volis not on there home world or a world fit to there needs will suffer a similar fate). many civilians also will not be able to survive without any technology because they don't know how to survive with out it, and most don't know how to re make there tools from the very dirt.
2. there's also something most didint remember because they were so busy being pissed off about the ending. where in the hell was harbinger during all this. not just during the ending but the whole story. you would think he would make tracking down the Normandy his personal priority so that he can finish his favorite commander himself (he did that in ME2 why not in ME3?).
3. on that subject, there also something ells the game didint account for. the reapers CAN be reason with. the destroyer you destroyed on the quarian home world talked to you once you bested it, im sure if you had something they were interested in they would listen to what you had to say. "but hobohazard," you say "you don't have anything of value to them so why would they stop and listen?" what are you talking about, you have access to not one, but TWO ways to destroy the reapers. if you called for them somehow, and then told them to leave the galaxy or you will destroy them or take control of them and then make them destroy themselves, therefor banishing the reapers, saving yourself, and saving the relays and therefor everyone.
4. the sad part is (like the ending) nothing i said hear matters to bioware because there going to ether not do anything, or make the new ending cost money and just incur more wrath. however, im not letting the ending ruin the incredible adventure iv had since 2007. there is still multi-player to try and i herd its actually kinda decent.

 

[synobal]

What i really dont get is how doing this helps them set up future IP than it would have if they had just kept the universe status quo and created a new thred within the galaxy as a whole to revolve the future games around

I don't think they, did the ending specifically to setup a future IP or anything like that. There are a few reasons as to why the ending they went with is good for any future series set in the Mass Effect universe.

First lets for the sake of argument say the best possible outcome happens.

The crucible fires, reapers go boom, the relays are intact and shepherd lives and the Galaxy is united behind his leadership. The Quarians and the Geth are at Peace and the Krogan stop trying to do their Vulcan impression.

If this had happened you have no real conflict or setting for galaxy wide conflict. Sure stuff might happen but galaxy wide threats don't just pop out of no where. As opposed to the start of Mass effect 1, the Krogan are upset about the genophage, the Asari and Salarian are stonewalling the new member of the council races about getting a council member and a human spectre, the geth and the quarian are at war and humans and batarians are having settlement disputes, plus loads of other stuff. It's a setting rife with conflict and so it is an awesome setting for story telling purposes.

The ending that Bioware went with establishes possibilities, and when you have possibilities you can create conflict which is what drives a story, any story. Hell just fast forward a few thousand years and you might have religions based on shepherd, the geth and the quarians some how interbreed and are now one race, some meat head is trying to resurrect a reaper etc etc.

They basically established the possibility for lots of new conflicts in the same universe with the endings they used.

 

[SajuukKhar]

1)Its a type of radiation seeing as that,s the only way to get energy through a vacuum
2) the spread is everywhere there's a mass relay

so everybody's vaporized or has cancer of course its more likely to be the completely unforeshadowed space magic

1. There are plenty of more ways of transmitting energy through space besides radiation
2. The pulse waves cover the entire galaxy, and there isn't a Mass Relay in every solar system in the galaxy, thus we can deduce that each Mass Relays covers a multitude of various systems. How many is unknown but it would have to be a lot.

 

[Immsys]

Actually, my complaint boils down to how Bioware basically took a story that had been building (quite well) two games, had an amazing lead in to the finale, then pulled an ending that reflected relatively little of your previous choices despite what Bioware had promised along the way. Yes it was within their rights to do this, but it is well within my rights to be annoyed about it. They aren't going to change it, but I can still have my opinion on what was done well and what was done poorly.

Also could we please stop with the good ending == happy ending? A good ending == well executed ending for the universe, yet a decent number of arguments are focusing on the happy/sad deal (though Bioware did promise a happy ending, though what that can be interpreted as is up for, well, interpretation).

I think it is obvious that your complaints about the series endings are justified in that you do not agree with the choices the writers made, which is obviously fine. And, since you do not seem to be making a number of unreasonable demands (I have not actually seen any other posts so forgive me for ignorance) that is fine as well. My comments were mainly directed at those who continue to give gaming a bad name by demanding that the ending be changed, in much the same way that comic book fans would and indeed have. I apologize for my original post as looking at it now, it did generalize a rather large amount.

I would still argue however that most of the complaints that I have read are regarding to the "Mass Effect universe" changing significantly over a very short space of time. I understand that change is not necessarily good, yet change is rarely inherently bad either.

I must also agree with your second paragraph, it is rather embarrassing to see the amount of people, who I have no doubt are all sophisticated and intelligent individuals, yet are reduced to arguing that the only "good" ending is a "happy" one. My main problem is that while that many things regarding Mass Effect have been clumsy at best (marketing to name but one) it still seems to me that compared to other media, some people who play games feel much more entitled than others, which I find worrying.

 

[Hypermini]

i thought it was some kinda super EMP ofc that was just me thinking 'well it cant be space magic thats just retarded, it must be this' but would it make sense if it was some kinda super emp?

 

[SajuukKhar]

i thought it was some kinda super EMP ofc that was just me thinking 'well it cant be space magic thats just retarded, it must be this' but would it make sense if it was some kinda super emp?

that could work.

 

[Immsys]

Stop saying that everything has to be "the way it was promised" and that the Mass Effect world isn't "the way it should be".

Mass Effect 3 was advertised by BioWare as a "satisfying conclusion" were "your choices matters." Judging from the reactions they have failed to deliver this to many of their costumers.

EDIT: Just to clarify: I don't agree with "good ending = happy ending" either. I really just think that a franchise selling itself on "choice", should be able to accommodate the people who want a happy outcome.

I have to agree that franchises selling themselves on choice should inherently try to accommodate choice, and that the ending (while in my opinion, more realistic) did not include this. Yet as to your point regarding what was advertised, I don't believe that any franchise, in the history of all franchises, have or indeed ever will advertise themselves as giving anything other than a "satisfying conclusion".

 

[feeqmatic]

What i really dont get is how doing this helps them set up future IP than it would have if they had just kept the universe status quo and created a new thred within the galaxy as a whole to revolve the future games around

Because they can now set a game 300 years in the future were civilizations are just rediscovering Mass Relay tech of thier own.

Imagine how wildly different each colony of man could turn out after 300 years of isolation from Earth.

Same with every other race.

There are more possibilities now then there would have been had they kept the status quo.

Oh now suddenly you respond... sheesh

What i really dont get is how doing this helps them set up future IP than it would have if they had just kept the universe status quo and created a new thred within the galaxy as a whole to revolve the future games around

I don't think they, did the ending specifically to setup a future IP or anything like that. There are a few reasons as to why the ending they went with is good for any future series set in the Mass Effect universe.

First lets for the sake of argument say the best possible outcome happens.

The crucible fires, reapers go boom, the relays are intact and shepherd lives and the Galaxy is united behind his leadership. The Quarians and the Geth are at Peace and the Krogan stop trying to do their Vulcan impression.

If this had happened you have no real conflict or setting for galaxy wide conflict. Sure stuff might happen but galaxy wide threats don't just pop out of no where. As opposed to the start of Mass effect 1, the Krogan are upset about the genophage, the Asari and Salarian are stonewalling the new member of the council races about getting a council member and a human spectre, the geth and the quarian are at war and humans and batarians are having settlement disputes, plus loads of other stuff. It's a setting rife with conflict and so it is an awesome setting for story telling purposes.

The ending that Bioware went with establishes possibilities, and when you have possibilities you can create conflict which is what drives a story, any story. Hell just fast forward a few thousand years and you might have religions based on shepherd, the geth and the quarians some how interbreed and are now one race, some meat head is trying to resurrect a reaper etc etc.

They basically established the possibility for lots of new conflicts in the same universe with the endings they used.

I can maybe see that it is easier to start new IP ideas from a blank slate, but they could have easily started the story 300 years in the future anyway with a less convoluted ending. that is a few dozen human/turian/quarian generations later and even more for salarian. The Asari and Krogan will both still remember what happened but either way Shepard is a galactic hero. Except in one the fans dont get the ending they wanted and are less likely to shell for the second one. It really doesnt do much more for them in terms of story possibilities except to offer the story of how everyone recovers wich doesnt sound interesting at all in my opinion

 

[Immsys]

3. on that subject, there also something ells the game didint account for. the reapers CAN be reason with. the destroyer you destroyed on the quarian home world talked to you once you bested it, im sure if you had something they were interested in they would listen to what you had to say. "but hobohazard," you say "you don't have anything of value to them so why would they stop and listen?" what are you talking about, you have access to not one, but TWO ways to destroy the reapers. if you called for them somehow, and then told them to leave the galaxy or you will destroy them or take control of them and then make them destroy themselves, therefor banishing the reapers, saving yourself, and saving the relays and therefor everyone.

I do hope that you are most likely green, and in some folk lore live under a bridge.

Reasoning with a computer eh? A computer that sees no inherent value in its own existence, if it is therefore unable to continue its primary function eh? Let me know how that works out for ya.

 

[theonecookie]

i thought it was some kinda super EMP ofc that was just me thinking 'well it cant be space magic thats just retarded, it must be this' but would it make sense if it was some kinda super emp?

that could work.

Yeah but only for the destroy ending, the control ending is some sort of transmission tower but its not those two endings we have the space magic problem its the merge ending now rationalise that one

Also how do you move energy through space not by radiation energy is dependent on having particles present you know to have energy

and yes the blasts could cover the whole galaxy but shockwaves are centered on the mass relays which are notoriously close to where everybody made there homes

 

[synobal]

What i really dont get is how doing this helps them set up future IP than it would have if they had just kept the universe status quo and created a new thred within the galaxy as a whole to revolve the future games around

Because they can now set a game 300 years in the future were civilizations are just rediscovering Mass Relay tech of thier own.

Imagine how wildly different each colony of man could turn out after 300 years of isolation from Earth.

Same with every other race.

There are more possibilities now then there would have been had they kept the status quo.

Oh now suddenly you respond... sheesh

What i really dont get is how doing this helps them set up future IP than it would have if they had just kept the universe status quo and created a new thred within the galaxy as a whole to revolve the future games around

I don't think they, did the ending specifically to setup a future IP or anything like that. There are a few reasons as to why the ending they went with is good for any future series set in the Mass Effect universe.

First lets for the sake of argument say the best possible outcome happens.

The crucible fires, reapers go boom, the relays are intact and shepherd lives and the Galaxy is united behind his leadership. The Quarians and the Geth are at Peace and the Krogan stop trying to do their Vulcan impression.

If this had happened you have no real conflict or setting for galaxy wide conflict. Sure stuff might happen but galaxy wide threats don't just pop out of no where. As opposed to the start of Mass effect 1, the Krogan are upset about the genophage, the Asari and Salarian are stonewalling the new member of the council races about getting a council member and a human spectre, the geth and the quarian are at war and humans and batarians are having settlement disputes, plus loads of other stuff. It's a setting rife with conflict and so it is an awesome setting for story telling purposes.

The ending that Bioware went with establishes possibilities, and when you have possibilities you can create conflict which is what drives a story, any story. Hell just fast forward a few thousand years and you might have religions based on shepherd, the geth and the quarians some how interbreed and are now one race, some meat head is trying to resurrect a reaper etc etc.

They basically established the possibility for lots of new conflicts in the same universe with the endings they used.

I can maybe see that it is easier to start new IP ideas from a blank slate, but they could have easily started the story 300 years in the future anyway with a less convoluted ending. that is a few dozen human/turian/quarian generations later and even more for salarian. The Asari and Krogan will both still remember what happened but either way Shepard is a galactic hero. Except in one the fans dont get the ending they wanted and are less likely to shell for the second one. It really doesnt do much more for them in terms of story possibilities except to offer the story of how everyone recovers wich doesnt sound interesting at all in my opinion

Yes that is why I don't think these endings were written specifically for the purpose of further mass effect games, even though most people are constantly saying so. These endings were written because they were the endings that were needed to resolve the conflict and the threat that the reapers posed and to explain what they did and why to some degree. Not to mention the Illusive man.

Another big thing i don't think most people get, is that the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is an ending. We see what happens with each character and what happens to the things they care about. Sure we don't know what their disposition is at the end of the game, but we know that most of them fulfilled what they intended to before the games dramatic conclusion.

These endings work and once everyone calms down and stops knee jerk reacting to these they will realize that as far as game endings go Mass Effect 3 ended in a rather ballsy way that left open the possibility for future games in a way that wasn't 'obvious' such as a Halo 3 and Masterchief's 'wake me up for the sequel' ending.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yeah but only for the destroy ending, the control ending is some sort of transmission tower but its not those two endings we have the space magic problem its the merge ending now rationalise that one

Also how do you move energy through space not by radiation energy is dependent on having particles present you know to have energy

and yes the blasts could cover the whole galaxy but shockwaves are centered on the mass relays which are notoriously close to where everybody made there homes

As I see it the merge ending could follow the same methods as the markers from the Dead Space series that send out a recombinant DNA sequence and combined that with the Reaper's nonamachines.

How does a beam of superheated plasma move throughout space?

Also who is to say the breaking of the Mass Relays in ME3 caused shockwaves?

 

[Immsys]

A. Magical space McGuffin again, why do they dismantle?
B. How many do you need to re-establish a race?
C. Because a small crew of no more than about 30 people with an uneven M:F Ratio is capable of starting up a non-incest colony.

To say that just because you do not know WHY they dismantle, means that is runs on magical mcguffin logic is extremely flawed.

You also seem to assume that most animals do not continue to procreate what is an, by your definition, "incest colony". Incest, while potentially unhealthy, is not necessarily fatal, as you seem to be assuming. How do you think the first humans were created anyway? when a very small number of Human like apes began to evolve away from apes themselves, what do you think happened?

 

[Mogget128723]

You people are being massive wimps about this. The fact that it was a 'push this button to choose the ending' scenario did bother me, but the endings themselves were EXTREMELY well executed. They were jarring, harsh, difficult to swallow. And that's what made them so good. Something that could destroy the Reapers would destroy a hell of a lot more as well, and I like that Bioware didn't sugarcoat it.

 

[theonecookie]

Yeah but only for the destroy ending, the control ending is some sort of transmission tower but its not those two endings we have the space magic problem its the merge ending now rationalise that one

Also how do you move energy through space not by radiation energy is dependent on having particles present you know to have energy

and yes the blasts could cover the whole galaxy but shockwaves are centered on the mass relays which are notoriously close to where everybody made there homes

As I see it the merge ending could follow the same methods as the markers from the Dead Space series that send out a recombinant DNA sequence and combined that with the Reaper's nonamachines.

How does a beam of superheated plasma move throughout space?

Also who is to say the breaking of the Mass Relays in ME3 caused shockwaves?

DNA riding on a high energy shockwave through space that can combine with the DNA of at least 12 other species with out causing the immune system of the target to viciously attack its self giving the target a slow painful death ?

Plasma moves through space because its a super heated gas its not pure energy if you dont understand this we should probably stop now

did you not watch the ending the crucible sent energy down each mass relay causing a fresh shock wave fed by the core of each mass relay standard chain reaction

 

[SajuukKhar]

DNA riding on a high energy shockwave through space that can combine with the DNA of at least 12 other species with out causing the immune system of the target to viciously attack its self giving the target a slow painful death ?

Plasma moves through space because its a super heated gas its not pure energy if you dont understand this we should probably stop now

did you not watch the ending the crucible sent energy down each mass relay causing a fresh shock wave fed by the core of each mass relay standard chain reaction

1. In a scifi universe were dark energy is frequently used to create singularities, lift things into the air, transport spaceships large distances, were theres an entire race of blue all female aliens who use vulcan mind melds to reproduce, were giant sentiant starship machines purge all advanced life in the galaxy every 50,000 years, a pulse that could do that isn't that much of a strtch, the seires never followed anything close to real world physics.

2. Plasma is not gas, if you do not understand that we should probably stop now.

3. Did you not see that all of said energy was transmitted via a beam and that the so called "shockwave" was the EMP like pulse that enacted whatever choice you made, and that literally zero affect on the buildings o earth?

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

It really isn't hard to understand why so many people feel betrayed. The "inbred mutant colony" scenario notwithstanding, the things that happens to the companions, which many of the players have grown attached to, during the end seem unnecessarily cruel and borders on being downright sadistic. And, perhaps most importantly, they happen outside the players control.

Besides the plot holes of the teleporting squad mates, and Joker very uncharacteristically running from the battle, we have the fact that Shepard's friends and potential love interest now have to deal with the sorrow of losing their beloved friend and commander for the second time, and are stuck many light years away from home, with practically no chance of returning. This really just makes the ending where Shepard survives an extra kick to the nuts, because how would they know? And it would be just as bad for the surviving Shepard, who will never see his/her friends again or ever get to know of their fate.

Quite a few people are perfectly willing to accept the endings in their present form, if the detail of the Normandy crash was changed to happen on Earth, because it at least leaves some hope for closure for these characters, even that closure just happens to be Shepard's funeral. And, most importantly, it would also provide the player with some closure. Why couldn't BioWare just throw them that bone, or better yet, thought about this from the beginning instead of going with the extremely contrived action of stranding the Normandy some where far away?

 

[theonecookie]

DNA riding on a high energy shockwave through space that can combine with the DNA of at least 12 other species with out causing the immune system of the target to viciously attack its self giving the target a slow painful death ?

Plasma moves through space because its a super heated gas its not pure energy if you dont understand this we should probably stop now

did you not watch the ending the crucible sent energy down each mass relay causing a fresh shock wave fed by the core of each mass relay standard chain reaction

1. In a scifi universe were dark energy is frequently used to create singularities, lift things into the air, transport spaceships large distances, were theres an entire race of blue all female aliens who use vulcan mind melds to reproduce, were giant sentiant starship machines purge all advanced life in the galaxy every 50,000 years, a pulse that could do that is almost expected.

2. Plasma is not gas, if you do not understand that we should probably stop now.

3. Did you not see that all of said energy was transmitted via a beam and that the so called "shockwave" was the EMP esque pulse that enacted whatever choice you made?

1. fair enough we are dealing with fiction they can do what ever they want still doesn't stop it from clashing with setting

2. Ok lets get technical plasma is the forth of five types of MATTER that very much acts like a gas matter is famous for many thing not the least of is being made up of particles

3. Er no the energy form the crucible spread outwards until it hit the sol mass relay where it gained the energy of the relay turned into a beam shot to the target system of the mass relay where it dispersed until the shock wave hit the next mass relay where it was then absorbed the energy and turned in to a beam

although what I said was incorrect the shockwave's are centered on the target of the mass relays not the relays them self's my point still stands

 

[KingofMadCows]

And that would mean the pulse wave has the power to destroy a solar system. It doesn't matter if you convert the power of a nuclear bomb into alpha radiation, beta radiation, gamma radiation, heat, electricity, or kinetic energy, it's still the power of a nuclear bomb.

It has all the total power of a nuclear bomb, yes, but it is possible to turn said nuclear energy into a energy type that doesn't actually harm organics/synthetics.

Except what can and cannot harm things is not a matter of type but amount. The light from a single 60 watt lightbulb isn't going to hurt you but if I shine a million 60 watt light bulbs at you, you'll be blinded and die of heatstroke.

Similarly, a little bit of that energy wave might not harm organics but if it has the energy to destroy a solar system behind it then that's like someone shining a couple hundred trillion 60 watt light bulbs on you.

You have to be careful with bringing Hard Physics into a science fiction that is obviously not intended to be a hard scifi.

Sure what you say is technically true but we don't understand physics in the mass effect universe nor can we start to pretend to understand exactly what sort of energy release happened. Maybe most of the energy was evenly distrusted across the galaxy so that what normally would of destroyed a solar system simply damage some space ships.

True, but there is a difference between good soft science fiction where the writers try to keep some sense of logic and consistency and bad soft sci-fi where the writers just go, "this happens because... well... 'quantum.'"

I think that's what happened with parts of Mass Effect 3. They went from relatively good soft sci-fi to stuff that doesn't make much sense and isn't consistent with the made up science of the universe