Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[Falcon123]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have no right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

You have my sword on your next noble quest, though I've posted something similar on four different thread on this site and your well-founded logic and reason is unlikely to get through to people, sadly enough.

 

[Falcon123]

Your explanation is all well and good Yahtzee but I seemed to notice you failed to acknowledge the Indoctrination Theory that's going around as well.

To be fair, so has Bioware. Everything's just pointless speculation til it comes from them

 

[Falcon123]

I've been given to understand that Bioware are talking about changing the ending under the massive pressure from the idiot fanbase, and I hope like hell they're just talking about doing something like that, an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Because it would set a horrible precedent if they're serious about actually changing the ending in line with some kind of democratically agreed upon alternative, rather than merely expanding or adding to it.

It may interest you to know, if you didn't already, that the film Little Shop of Horrors [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091419/] originally had Seymour and Audrey I getting killed. Yes, in the original cut, the plant Audrey II wins and takes over the world. It's still that way in the off-Broadway musical on which the film is based.

Test audiences, however, tore the filmmakers a new one over the ending. So they went back [em]and changed it[/em] to the ending you're more familiar with.

Point being: Radically changing an ending at audience insistence is not unheard of.

Unless I'm mistaken, test audiences are done before the movie comes out. Games have play testers as well. That's all pre release. There's a massive difference between a director or game developer changing something before the game or movie comes out because it has an unintended effect on its audience and changing something after the game or movie comes out because the effect they tried to give their audience didn't go over as well as they'd hoped.

 

[Ticonderoga117]

Does the ending change the good times you had? My perspective on it is that if you enjoyed everything up until the last 10 minutes, you still came out of the equation looking pretty good.

It doesn't change the good times I've had, but it does put a rather crap mental filter over the experience. It's hard for me to describe because I never really had such a thing happen where I experienced such a difference in quality in a game. That's even after playing DX:HR with the boss fights.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2.

Freedom has a price. It was both disappointing and awesome. Would have hated a "Wow we beat the reapers and everyone is happy" ending. I guess they didn't want a generic Paragon/Renegade ending. But seems everyone did. I sold my copy and have zero interest in any new ending.

But you didn't get freedom, you actually just fucked the galaxy over and killed everyone.

Obviously not everyone, if there still can be an old man telling his kid about Shepard presumably long after the end of the game.

And for everyone who likes to think Mass Effect was upbeat, I'm surprised so many of them completely fail to maintain that attitude in the post-Relay era. "It's all about fighting the odds and overcoming! Oh, but the destruction of the Relays kills everyone, ever, and there's no way around it."

except for you realize there is only so much fuel, and a large distance for the entire galaxies armies to travel with FTLs. And then their is arrival dlc, when that relay blew it took the entire system with it.

That is where my concern is at.

 

[Storm Dragon]

For what it's worth, here's how I would do the ending:
1) Remove synthesis and the Normandy fleeing, because they make no sense.
2) The mass relays are only destroyed if your war assets are too low.
3) With enough war assets, Shepard can survive the control option as well as the destroy option, but this would be really hard to get.
4) With enough war assets, destroy kills only the Reapers, while EDI, the Geth, and other synthetics survive.
5) A funeral scene for Shepard and Anderson if she dies, just Anderson if she lives.

 

[The.Bard]

If and when Bioware specifically say that they are not going to change the ending in any way, or add anything to it, then I will leave it alone, and be happy with what I have got. I do suspect that I am in the minority on this one though.
I really hope that the indoctrination theory turns out to be true though, although it probably won't, knowing Bioware. If it does, then the huge amount of backlash would make this one of the greates achievements in gaming history.

Honestly, I just beat the game last night, and the amount of evidence in favor of indoctrination is pretty mind boggling. There are a lot of little things that had been bugging me as "off," but only after I beat the game and started talking with my buddy did a lot of it make sense.

Ending spoilers:

Shepard is forced to shoot Anderson, but then Shepard is the one seen bleeding from that spot afterwards. That's not something the team just lazily "misses." Couple that with James constantly talking about hearing a hum, the reports that nobody made it to the beams, The "dead" team somehow getting on the Normandy and out of the system, nobody else ever acknowledging the kid, Shep's TIM-esque eyes when he/she dies in Synthesis/Control, etc.

Until Bioware comes out and admits they mistakenly stumbled their way into placing dozens of clues pointing to indoctrination, I absolutely think this is the pinnacle of gaming achievement. Bigger than Bioshock.

Not only do I think the ending lacks suckage, I'm more enamored with it every hour I think about it. It's f-ing BRILLIANT.

 

[Taunta]

anc[is]

You just want one that "doesn't fucking suck", presenting one as an objective term.

First of all, whether or not it "fucking sucks" is your opinion. So when you say you just want a story that doesn't suck, you mean that you want one that is tailored to your interests. A story made to appeal to you. And that's not how writing works. You may not like it, but the writers aren't writing to please you.

And yes, there are multiple writers on a team. I'm aware of how these things work. I am referring to them as a conglomerate "artist", assuming that they communicate with each other and work on the same wavelength.

And sure, you'd throw the book back at the artist and tell them to do it again, but you'd still be wrong for doing it. What you fail to grasp is that there is a very large difference between wishing they would change it, and demanding. Critics who give constructive criticism are doing it because it is their job to do so, not because they have some sense of entitlement as fans. Yes, Bioware still has the option of listening to you, but that still doesn't make you look any better for demanding it. Why does only one party require choice?

There is a difference between an ending tailor made for everyone, and one that is simply consistent with the rest of the game and lore. My personal story would have involved killing Miranda the first time she opened her smug mouth and carrying around her skull as an example to the rest. But that's not reasonable to expect, and I believe its also not reasonable for a glowing space fetus to fall from the sky and present us with the Endingtron 3000 he borrowed from Deus Ex.

And they kinda are writing to please me and all the other people buying the game. They didn't do this for their own fun. And how are they going to know their work sucks if the only people allowed to speak are paid off by Daddy EA? Demanding is the only tool we have. It's insulting that you want to take it away.

But they're not writing to please you. They're writing to tell a story that they think is worth telling, and if you buy it, great, but no one is forcing you to.

Again, I don't think the distinction between "complaining" and "demanding" is clear. It would be perfectly reasonable to express an unfavorable opinion about the game. And yes, I don't think the ending was handled properly either. I agree with you. But I am content to be disappointed, complain about it a bit, and then move on with my life. Demanding is different.

As for how they'll know you don't like it? Expressing negative opinions about it. That's how they'll know. Returning the product so you can get your money back, and discouraging people from buying it. And if you haven't already bought it, don't. Tanking sales figures and large numbers of people selling it back. That's how they'll know.

Demanding is not the only tool you have. You have places to express a negative opinion about it without going one step further and feeling like you DESERVE a new ending. You have the power of your wallet, and the power of helping sway public opinion. You have those, and I say it's perfectly fine to use those.

But demanding is to cross the boundary between audience and creator. It's to feel like you DESERVE something else. And that's what I have a problem with. You deserve an ending, and that's what you got. And if it's not one that you're happy with, you complain, and then you move on with your life.

A lot of people are figuratively acting like the antagonist in Stephen King's Misery. And I'm not okay with that.

 

[hermes]

Point. Missing it. Thanks for not understanding, Yahtzee.

Holding the Line.

I am in complete agreement. He missed the point, as did Moviebob, Ken Levine, etc. etc. etc.

Hold the line.

Yes, all of them missed the point. There's absolutely no way that they're able to take a more objective, long term view of this situation than a player who is so heavily invested in the series that they can't separate their anger from their argument. How could they have all been so foolish?

This is what I don't get about people who say things like this. There are two camps of people who didn't like the ending:

1. People who really didn't like the ending and wouldn't mind if it was fixed.

2. People who are demanding they change the ending, constantly writing hateful messages about how they failed to deliver on promises they were entitled to, and going so far as to file a complaint with the FTC for God's sakes!

No one is mad at Group 1. Yes, the ending is objectively flawed. You have every right to be upset about it, and if Bioware chose to pull a Bethesda and change it of their own accord, that wouldn't be a problem. No one is saying it would be. People ARE pissed off at group #2, because they're so entitled that they believe the series should be built around what they want (there was no way to make an ending that would satisfy everyone , sorry) and anything less than Bioware's complete subjugation to their demands is an absolute betrayal in their minds, to the extent that they want to "Retake Mass Effect", a game which was never theirs to begin with.

If you're in group 1, I give my sympathies to you, as it's easy to feel as if you're getting dragged into group 2 after you're already upset about how Bioware let you down. But those of you who want to keep "Holding the Line" until Bioware gives in to your demands aren't noble or even logical; you're just immature and sad, and apparently lack the ability to separate the failure of a company to produce a perfect game with your feelings about the series

Thank you. You seems to be able to write down my feelings about it better than me and, for that, I thank you.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck the people who didn't like the ending!" is accused of not explaining their point of view even though there are about 3,000,000 videos and articles explaining why the endings are bad, from the point of view of the people who dislike the ending.

See, I can make sweeping generalisations too. The problem here is complete lack of understanding, on every side. Nobody is listening to anybody. I don't care about this whole thing, but I don't want people putting words in my mouth, or telling me what I think, just because I dislike the ending.

 

[LazyAza]

Personally I think ME3's ending was 100% intentional to the point they knew full well what the reaction would be. The dlc that will ultimately "retcon" it was planned from the beginning. What will be different however is the backlash will result in Bioware tweaking and adjusting what exactly happens in the dlc.

Think about it for a second they've confirmed tonnes of dlc was coming since before the game launched and how are you suppose to do said dlc if a game were to end the way me3 did. Its going to be a mixture of content set before and during the ending and the ending itself will be changed because it was never the real ending to begin with.

The main game already hinted in numerous ways that the ending was complete nonsense; an extended dream sequence and possibly an extension of Shepards ongoing indoctrination.

 

[Gigatoast]

Yawn! If you want a real discussion, I'll be happy to oblige. But I'm not holding my breath on you taking me up on that offer.

Fine then, I got nothin' better to do.

So why is it you assume the majority of players are "demanding" Bioware change the ending? Sure it's certainly the most popular summerization but it's not particularily true.

From all accounts the fans aren't demanding anything, they're telling Bioware "We don't like this ending, here are some reasons why. We want you to make a DLC either expanding and fixing the problems this current ending has or offer alternate endings for players who don't like this one. We're perfectly willing to pay for it so long as it fits our desires. If you don't do this we'll lose a lot of respect for you and your franchise, and we most likely wont buy your games anymore."

The idea that fans are up and demanding that Bioware actually patch the game and completly replace the old ending with one where Shepard lives, the galaxy isn't destroyed and everyone has cake is completly false. Just a generalization cooked up by detractors who want the retakers to "stop complaining and live with the bulls**t". Besides, we all still have lives, no one is literally spending every waking hour whining about this on a forum. Just because the problem isn't going away doesn't mean it never stops.

Yes, there are some very annoying people who're part of the "retake" movement, but they're just a very small but vocal set of outliers. Sure there are assholes who tried to get their money back from the Child's Play charity, but the movement clearly does not condone them and they do not represent the rest of the retakers.

There, I've said my piece, now are you going to respond politely or are we going to go back to childish bickering?

 

[Faerillis]

Wow, MovieBob could learn something from this; I mean, you missed the point and misunderstood the theme of the games, but most of what you said was reasonable. Thing is though, there is no "democratically agreed upon ending", we want them to do something reasonable with the ending. Now I think you're wrong about Mass Effect in general, including Shepard being "an emotionless ponce" ? if that's how you found him, that's because that's how you played him; Shepard isn't a character unto himself, he is a character you develop.

However, I think what MovieBob could learn from this article (and perhaps what made your article more reasonable), is that if you are going to proffer an opinion on a game like this you have to actually play the fucking game.

 

[the7ofswords]

If Bioware adopts the 'Indoctrination Theory' then I will lose all respect for them, no matter how plausible the theory itself might be.

Well, if that actually is the ending (i.e., the Indoctrination Theory is correct), they won't have adopted it -- they will have been the ones who created it. When playing the end I certainly had a suspicion that indoctrination might be what I was witnessing, but I wasn't sure. And that's the brilliance of that ending: they left so much open to interpretation (and for further discussion), no matter which ending you chose.

I'm still not sure I buy into the Indoctrination Theory, but it is a compelling one, and I would not be surprised if we learn that was the intent all along.

 

[Feylynn]

I'm going to step cautiously away from all this scary "point" and "What is it?" talk. I'll just list a couple problems with the ending, talk about theme, and leave Bioware and other people completely out of this.

The problems were that like Deus Ex: HR it had an "Ending-O-Rama" plot machine for a final level, which took your ability to converse away and railroaded you into a bigger macro-genocidal course of action than the Reapers ever dared to start. I didn't want more buttons on the machine, I just wanted an organic ending process that considered all of your choices in advance.

Other complaints that have been made are inconsistencies and plot holes such as dead members of your team coming back to life, running to the Normandy, and deserting their asses off to the nearest Relay as fast as they can. Or the relays literally destroying the entire galaxy would make it hard to crash land on a remaining planet.

Last a comment on theme. ME3 was very much about 'Breaking' that cycle, not the inevitability of the cycle. You see it in making the Geth sentient, finding out how understanding and compassionate they can be, see how many times they'd shown mercy. You see this in the strong leadership that Wrex and Eve/Bakara show, how committed they are to guiding their species into an age of civility. You see it in the Migrant Fleet coming home, making piece with its aforementioned enemies. You see it in the Rachni who are willing to let the past go in order to preserve their species. You see it in the ending where no matter your decision Shepard WILL break the cycle by wiping out the galaxy, leaving the last few survivors stranded on some random planet to fulfill your quasi-religious Adam, Eve, and Garrus in the Garden of Eden, guided there by the sheperd that gave him/herself for your continued existence.
Mass Effect 1 was also about breaking the Cycle, the entire plot revolved around forcing the Reapers to do something different, preventing them from getting the surprise attack that they have always had.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

The problem here is complete lack of understanding, on every side. Nobody is listening to anybody. I don't care about this whole thing, but I don't want people putting words in my mouth, or telling me what I think, just because I dislike the ending.

If you have managed to express yourself rationally without making demands and screaming at people, then my words don't apply to you. Simple as that.

Fair enough, but that isn't what you said. Obviously this is the internet and hyperbole abounds, but what I said doesn't just apply to you. It applies to MovieBob, it applies to Bioware, it applies to a lot of the people posting on these forums. They generalise, they say "people don't like the ending because x" when really, they know nothing about what people think about the ending. There was one particular person on some of the earlier ending related threads who kept going on about "They are just whining because they don't get to ride off into the sunset with their space waifus!" and it's really irritating when people don't just tell you what to think, they tell you what you already think.