Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Listen, I have empathy for my fellow gamer for most things. But not this.

This whole ME3 ending thing was blown way way out of proportion. I can understand you are upset and saddened by the ending but that's where my empathy ends.

You can be dissatisfied with a game, you can be pissed all your questions weren't answered, you can be upset with bioware and even boycott future games. But you aren't entitled to tell the developers what to do.

If you don't like how they do business/make games/talk to customers/make videos/listen to music than you are fully within your right to not support them don't buy their products, don't visit their forums and don't hang onto their every word like it's a promise.

but don't buy their game and then complain you don't like it and they need to change it, it's asinine. I have a copy of alone in the dark but you don't see me petitioning Atari to take out the driving sections and replace it with something better.

not to mention the whole 'retake mass effect' movement couldn't be any more disorganized, other than 'we want a new ending' everyone involved seems to have a different idea of what should happen.

can we just move on now?

I love how every time someone speaks against this whole retake ME3 nonsense people just dismiss everything with 'Meh, s/he just doesn't get it'

because obviously the hatred for Mass Effect 3's ending must be unanimous across all gamer culture.

I should go on record (as I have elsewhere) as saying the writing the situation of the ending is not something I am clamoring to get changed. That's the ending they wanted I suppose they had some reasons, fine okay, not thrilled with it but it's not my hang up.

I DO want them to slap an Epilog on it though. I am gunning for that. I am willing to shell out for it as DLC if need be, but I want some closure and yes, maybe that does make me a bit entitled, but let me lay it out from my perspective.

I have bought their games - many of them, not just ME - and I have "liked" all their FB pages when they asked me to, and all the subsequent posts they've asked me to to get X or Y. I have bought things I don't particularly need to get extras and bonuses. I have followed their blogs and their tweets and their e-mails faithfully. I have done, in short, everything they have asked of me as a consumer so far as I was possibly able to do. I am asking them for something in return: an epilog to tell me what happened to the characters and the story they made me care about so deeply and then left open and seemingly unfinished. If that makes me seem entitled it might be because I do feel entitled to what I was told would be delivered when I stuck with them all this way listening to them tell me it would be delivered and believing they would make good on that promise. Tell me what happened. Let me be done. Let me have closure so I can go play all your games again and again and again in happiness and contentment even if I don't love every single thing about each and every one of them - I love them as a whole.

Thank you for the understanding though, of my feelings. I do appreciate it. I think people are losing sight of the fact that this whole thing started with the emotions of players, not the rights of players vs. the rights of artists, not the argument about what is sacred and what is mutable, but with an emotion felt by a player at the end of a roller coaster ride of emotions brought about by a game - which is really a beautiful thing turned so ugly now that the conflict keeps going on.

 

[Lillowh]

How come the only people who knows what the F they're talking about when it comes to why people hate the ending is Shamus Young and This gamefront article on why the fans are right [http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right]

 

[irishda]

You missed the point Yahtzee. -Everyone who doesn't agree with him

Did he? Did he REALLY miss the point? Did he "assume" your stance despite the countless thousands of threads spent by so many of you solidifying your points? Is it more likely he characterized your positions in a way that made you look unfavorable and now you're just assuming he "doesn't understand"? Maybe you guys are assuming his position.

For starters, there appears to be zero fucking solidarity in the Retake crowd on what exactly they want Bioware to do.

"We want more varied endings!"
"We want more closure!"
"We want a less depressing option!"
"We don't want them to change the end. But we do want an epilogue!"

Yahtzee might be misrepresenting YOUR particular stance, but there's about a thousand other people that seem to have the stance he's talking about. Maybe this is why so many of us see you all as whiny children, who never quite understood life's gonna let you down sometimes, because you can't even agree on what you WANT. And then you just write off any criticism as "people who just didn't get it" (sound familiar?)

Second, there seems to be an assumption of Yahtzee's stance on the ending, as is typical when people are simply blowing off valid criticism. I don't think Yahtzee likes the ending, in fact he probably hates it. But he understands that allowing the fans to set the precedent that all stories must adhere to their specifications and expectations is a terrible idea. Moviebob raised the point that taking control out of the writers' hands means they'll take absolutely zero risks. Why would they if the audience is just gonna make 'em change it to what they want?

TL;DR:Yahtzee didn't miss your point A: because there's not even one single point to begin with and B: you're just pissed he's not agreeing with you.

 

[FedericoV]

-Shepard's death: The fact that dying is inevitable is something I can accept.

I would be able to accept it too, but what you say is false. The only real permutation in the endings that keep tracks of what you have done before it, is a 5 second scene that happens if you choose the red ending and have more than 4000 EMS points: Sheppard lives and start breathing in London's ruined rubble (don't aske me how he survived: probably it's another kind of SPACE MAGIC).

Honestly, I believe that no amount of context can save the ending since its premise are circular and does not make any kind of sense (I will avoid the point that thematically the ending are out of place and do not fit the series at all). So, since the synthethics will allways revolt and kill the organics in every cycle, then the Starchild have created a race of syntethics that save organics killing them all and turning them in to monsters? Hu?

Honestly, what kind of context can you give to these mess. If the Starchild is all about saving organic and avoid that tecnology advancement kill them, he could have used better means than killing organics and turn them in to ugly and rabid monsters, using procedures that would have make Mengelev smile in the process. Like, you know, destroying the syntethics every now and then. Or using indoctrination to create a universal religion where intellingent AI are tabù. Or trying to make them coexist thanks to his superior intellingence. Like, you know, just what you have done in the game some hours before when you were able to reach some kind of peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

 

[irishda]

The counterpoint to the "artistic integrity" argument is very simple.

Mass Effect is commercial art. The "artistic integrity" of the product is already beholden to its financial backers (For instance, Javik and his mission were removed to cut development time to meet a release date determined by the publisher).

As the old maxim goes, "he who pays the piper calls the tune", and ultimately we as gamers are the ones paying.

More, naturally, from Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/27/mass-effect-3-and-corporate-influence-over-commercial-art/]

Ultimately doesn't trump over immediately.

 

[irishda]

-Shepard's death: The fact that dying is inevitable is something I can accept.

I would be able to accept it too, but what you say is false. The only real permutation in the endings that keep tracks of what you have done before it, is a 5 second scene that happens if you choose the red ending and have more than 4000 EMS points: Sheppard lives and start breathing in London's ruined rubble (don't aske me how he survived: probably it's another kind of SPACE MAGIC).

Honestly, I believe that no amount of context can save the ending since its premise are circular and does not make any kind of sense (I will avoid the point that thematically the ending are out of place and do not fit the series at all). So, since the synthethics will allways revolt and kill the organics in every cycle, then the Starchild have created a race of syntethics that save organics killing them all and turning them in to monsters? Hu?

Honestly, what kind of context can you give to these mess. If the Starchild is all about saving organic and avoid that tecnology kill them, he could have used better means than killing organics and turn them in to ugly and rabid monsters, using procedures that would have make Mengelev smile. Like, you know, destroying the syntethics every now and then. Or using indoctrination to create a universal religion where intellingent AI are tabù.

I mean, where is the love ?

The important bit you left out though is that the reapers leave. They take away the ugly monsters and let new civilizations advance. Meanwhile, the synthetics of a less-farseeing culture might have slightly more power-grabbing goals. For instance if the reapers didn't kill everyone with the capacity to make synthetics, what's to stop the Geth eventually saying "fuck this, leave us alone crap and roll on these bitches"? And then if the Geth succeed in dominating everyone, what's to stop them from eradicating all organic life? The goal was never to preserve organic life in it's current state, but rather to ensure it's continued survival entirely.

There might have been better methods, but eh, this is what the team went with.

 

[Sanguinedragon]

Well yahtzee let me explain it to you by using a series you love.
You freely admit that you aren't realy into mass effect so you have already missed the mark. so let me use an analogy with your beloved silent hill 2.
LEt us say you get to the final part then ending boss fight ( I love silent hill btw) and the game all of a sudden stops. A UNicorn appears and says "to stop this evil you must choose
1: to leave with the little girl live happily ever after and marry a hot chick.
2: leave with maria live a long lovely life have many babies
3: leave with maria and the girl and live happily ever after.
Then some unicorns and rainbows glow and dance, in different colors depending on which ending you choose and then ends with a big poster going "Hey for some real Silent Hill buy our DLC!!!"

If that had happened you would throw a fit so massive it would be recordable from space.

And you are forgetting the flat out promises made to us from memebers of the development team.

If I made a game for you and i PROMISED you a gun that shoots shurikens and lightning has tits and is on fire. and then, when you played the game, it turned out to actually be a pop gun that lights on fire burning you when you use it, you would absolutely demand that get fixed.

 

[Silver Patriot]

I am just mad because the ending didn't make sense to me. I have this little kid explaining to me that Synthetics and Organics could never get along. Meanwhile I have two different types of Synthetics out there (EDI and the ENTIRE GETH FLEET) proving it wrong. I wanted to scream at it "LOOK, LOOK RIGHT OUT THERE!" However this subject was not even acnowledged by the kid. Hell a simple "it will not last" would have been better than nothing.

And on the subject of cycles. All my Mass Effect gameplay up to that point told me that cycles could be broken if people are willing to work together.

I am not asking for a new ending, but I am still disapointed.

 

[Samantha Burt]

an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Which is exactly what was missing.

I mean, let's put aside the fact that we were told there'd be multiple endings up until about a month before release; this one thing would've made the current endings slightly more bearable.

I know what you mean. I was expecting some Fallout3-esque montage about how our decisions had resonated through the galaxy, seeing a krogan shake hands with a turian or geth helping quarians build homes. Something like that would at least have the feel that our decisions bore some weight in the universe.

 

[Jaeke]

Am I the only person who finished it without "everyone dying"?

I mean, yeah a lot of people died; nameless people of all species if that's what you mean. But it seems like for everyone, all of their teammates died as well, when all of mine lived.

They mean about how all of your crew is somehow, due to "SPACE MAGIC LAPOFJAOISFJIO!" crashed on a random planet in the middle of nowhere and will no doubt starve to death and even if they tried to reproduce there would be huge amounts of inbreeding and death.

 

[Active Schizophrenic]

This is the funniest thread in a while! Im so ridiculously happy I never liked mass effect and I dont have to deal with the "change Mass effects ending" whiny fanboy bullshit. Who am I going to listen to on this matter eh? Some asshole on a forum calling me stupid and telling me im missing the point or well-respected people in the gaming community like Yahtzee/Moviebob/Graham Stark/Extra Credits and so on.

 

[Jaeke]

Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________



Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

*sigh*

Yes, and I'm sure you came up with all this indoctrination stuff yourself.

I'm not trying to attack your or anything but all this "indoctrination theory" nonsense just reeks of fanfiction to me and the fact that people are clinging to it so desperately just goes to show how much Bioware dropped the ball with the ending.

People would rather live in happy ignorance than sad truth, I suppose.

I believe in the indoctrination ending. Even if it wasn't intentional, I believe its BioWare's best chance of getting out of this clean.

 

[LokiArchetype]

Mass Effect 3 gets an ending!

The gaming-media circlejerk, however, continues.

 

[Kahunaburger]

The solution to an Endingtron-3000 isn't linearity, it's having an ending that follows logically from a variety of choices made throughout the game.

 

[anthony87]

So far, every time someone has argued against the "Retake Mass Effect" movement, the overwhelming response is that the person "doesn't get it", most without actually saying what there is to get.
Just for future reference, if you really want to tell someone that they "don't get it", tell them what it is exactly they don't get. By not providing this, it just looks like you're saying it because it's the only way you can think of to defend yourself, even if it's not. (Also, ironically, some of the "he doesn't get it" posts actually missed the point of the article...)

Also, I stand by my opinion that it's not your game, so it's not your ending. You have o right to change it. Sue for false advertising all you want, that doesn't mean Bioware is obligated to change the ending. Sorry.

Alright then, here's what people don't seem to be getting:

[link]http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/[/link]

To be honest I hate putting down a link and calling it "proof" or whatever but the guy who wrote that said it all a million times better than I could.

 

[FedericoV]

Did he? Did he REALLY miss the point? Did he "assume" your stance despite the countless thousands of threads spent by so many of you solidifying your points? Is it more likely he characterized your positions in a way that made you look unfavorable and now you're just assuming he "doesn't understand"? Maybe you guys are assuming his position.

He is completely missing the point because he is speaking of something he has no idea about and he is not even interested a lot to begin with by his own admission. He is just supporting Bioware so his editor will be happy.

Second, there seems to be an assumption of Yahtzee's stance on the ending, as is typical when people are simply blowing off valid criticism. I don't think Yahtzee likes the ending, in fact he probably hates it. But he understands that allowing the fans to set the precedent that all stories must adhere to their specifications and expectations is a terrible idea. Moviebob raised the point that taking control out of the writers' hands means they'll take absolutely zero risks. Why would they if the audience is just gonna make 'em change it to what they want?

Ask Moviebob why gaming companies use focus group and the like then. That's ridiculous: game stories change all the time. But when it's corporation processes or "professional reviewer" insight, it's all fine and legit.

When it's fan feedback it is called entitlement. That's simply ideologic and the fact that gamers are willing to support this shit is depressing.

The writers HAVE NO CONTROL in videogames. They never had. Suggesting the idea that they are free like Cormac McCarthy to write their own tale is beyond ridiculous and insulting. Videogame writers need to take in consideration all kind of pressure in to account: business, design, burocracy, etc. etc..

What's wrong with fan feedback when it has been allready proved that in many games it has helped a lot? Fallout 3, The Witcher, Infamous 2. They have all been changed because of fan feedback.

The fact that the devs have changed the original ending as envisioned and supported by the original lead writer during the two previous games of the series is proof enough of my point.

TL;DR:Yahtzee didn't miss your point A: because there's not even one single point to begin with and B: you're just pissed he's not agreeing with you.

LEAVE HIM ALONE!

 

[JayDig]

I just thought it was strange that they decided to destroy the Relays, and essentially end the ME universe.

Shep dies heroically, sure, kind of expected. I don't think multiple endings where necessary, and even the final ABC was pretty pointless.

You pretty much got the full story of your crew members and know where their lives were heading, all good, no epilogue required. Right?

Then everyone in the galaxy gets stranded on half destroyed/deserted planets or presumably dies in space when their ships explode(?), um ok. It seems like the creators really don't want to make more ME games.

It would have been an easy out to just have a customized memorial service for Shep cutscene, with a bit for any of the surviving allies/armies the player had collected, and not end the universe.

Nevertheless, I'd play a Mass Effect Mercenaries prequel as long as it has more co-op.

 

[samaugsch]

Can't agree more. All these people feeling entitled to a better ending deserve a slap in the face.

Also I love how every time someone speaks against this whole retake ME3 nonsense people just dismiss everything with 'Meh, s/he just doesn't get it'

Probably because they don't. According to a number of people, Bioware promised that their choices would matter in the end, but it didn't, at least in their eyes. They felt that Bioware pretty much lied to them in this area, thus the reason that so many people are demanding that they change their ending (might be too late for that though). For once, I would like to see someone who disagrees mention that, even if it's denying it completely.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Meh...I'm just tired of trying to explain what our problem with Bioware is to people when they just refuse to listen.

I'll try to make it really simple:
When you are promised a wide variety of vastly different endings by multiple people, multiple times...and what you get is one ending in 3 colours...that tends to piss people off. It's not about changing the ending to cater for each individuals preference, it's not about making it a super happy ending where everyone lives and goes home. It's simply about doing what was promised would happen. A lawsuit might sound extreme but what they did was effectively false advertising, and being "just a videogame" doesn't stop false advertising from being illegal and morally corrupt.
5 years of emotional investment into the multiple character creations, hundreds of dollars spent on the games and all the dlc. All of that to be met with a slap-in-the-face choice of 'A, B or C' followed up with a line of text reading "Sheperds a hero, now go buy some DLC" (paraphrased only slightly)".

By the sounds of it, they were holding back the 'real ending' from day 1 to be used as DLC, which makes it even WORSE that they would abuse their consumers in such a manner.

 

[Woodsey]

Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

That being said I don't think bioware should have to remake the ending I just don't want to buy anything they sell ever again. Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2...

TL;DR fuck bioware and don't buy from them anymore.

So... what? You'll only lay down The Dolla for happy endings?

Oh, and I guess you now like Deus Ex HR's ending too?

*slap*

Human Revolution's ending is good. Inelegant, but it serves it's purpose to a tee.

OT: I finished it about 5 minutes ago. Whilst it is not the best ending ever, it is definitely not the worst thing in the world, by any means. And even if it was, people need to seriously consider what they want this industry to be before they demand a rewrite.

I can understand the desire for every sweeping epic to end like Return of the King, but at the same time, people need to accept that not every writer wants to end their stories like that - and that's who ultimately calls the story shots. Design-by-committee is rarely (if ever) good, and making that committee out of a few thousand people doesn't change that.

And whilst the thing with the kid was a little odd, they'd hinted at whatever he was fairly strongly.

But yes, I would have preferred a RotK, let's all get down with Frodo on the bed ending too - I'm a soppy fuck, I guess. And yes, I would have preferred an ending that did take into account your previous decisions; even so, your choices to do have consequences, they just happen on the journey, and not at the destination.

This summaries my feelings mostly: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/19/whats-right-with-mass-effect-3s-ending/

In combination with this: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/14/mass-effect-3-the-end-of-an-epic/

Not a great ending, not the worst ending, could have been handled better, but the last 5 minutes should not wipe 90 hours of goodness, and we should not have collective creative control of a writer's work.