Mass Effect 3: Leviathan is about reaper origins

[Waaghpowa]

I don't remember how long the Shadow Broker was, so I have no idea.

I think it was like....4 hours?

I won't. D: I'll just say that it doesn't give exact details but it does change one part of what we thought of them.

It's sad that Halo has an interesting universe, yet cant seem to put any of it in the games.

1) I'll probably still wait for reviews. I play the PC version of these games and tend to move much faster than most people I know. A 10 hour shooting game for me loses about 3 hours or so.

2) I agree with you on Halo. If the story is so great, why the hell can't they put it in the game? I don't want to read the novels for a video game story that should be in the game.

 

[Jaeke]

Hi my name is Jacob and I'm a BioDrone.

The last time I had a BioWare game was... 4 1/2 months ago, I'm still on the wagon and looking strong.


OT: Well, I'm done with that ride, looks interesting, but as far as what I can tell, Star Child is still there and wherever Star Child is, I'm gone.

 

[Euryalus]

No, No, No, No Bioware! When you have an Eldritch lovecraftian Character you DO NOT explain what they are or where they came from. You merely dance around it or give cryptic or unreliable hints as to their nature.



"Rudimentary creature of Blood and Flesh, you touch my mind, Fumbling in ignorance INCAPABLE of understanding." -Sovereign


To gaze upon the visage of Cthulhu is to court madness. If you gaze upon Cthulhu's tentacley awesomeness and understand it then Cthulhu's not that scary a character. The Reapers were terrifying because they were unknown (perhaps unknowable). If we learn too much about them or their motivations then they become normal, relatable, and mundane.



"The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown" -H.P. Lovecraft



I WANT THE CTHULHU-BORG TO REMAIN THE CTHULHU-BORG! I don't want them to just be those rouge octopus A.I.

They made it very clear with the original ME3 ending that they have no goddamn idea what to do with their villains. It still baffles me that they think the story is about the Reapers, and that anyone ever asked for their background. Everyone was thrilled with the "you cannot even grasp the nature of our existence"-thing from the first game, so why break it?

And I bet my ass this isn't going to be a cryptic mindfucky horror-DLC, even if they've clearly shown us that they can do horror with the Ardat-Yakshi monastery mission.

I can't be the only one that wasn't thrilled with the "unknowable, beyond your comprehension" thing. To me that's just bad writing. Maybe I'm optimistic about the capability of the human mind to understand things, but anything unknown to me is just something that needs to be discovered and studied in order to be understood. Saying "we're so above you you could never comprehend us" just sounds like the Reapers are hipsters to me. And I find hipsters to be far less scary than robo space squid with a defined origin.

But then, I've never really found Cthulhu or any of the Lovecraftian mythos to be particularly scary, either. The whole "unknowable" thing has never done it for me and I don't get why others find it creepy at all. It's kinda like particle physics, in a way - you can explain it in layman's terms to someone who doesn't know anything about physics. Yes, it won't really be entirely accurate and it'll be extremely simplified, but it's still understandable. Everything has an origin, everything has a motivation, and if need be we can understand in the most basic, dumbed down terms...but it's still a form of understanding.

Plus, it wasn't ME3 that killed the notion of the Reapers as being Cthulhu-esque, it was the end of the first game. Sovereign's death immediately destroys the whole "we're so far beyond you" mystique and lets you know that they're mortal and can die just like anything else. Yes, it requires overwhelming firepower beyond what most civilizations can muster, but it's still doable. That end sequence immediately sets them on an understandable and conquerable level, regardless of how overwhelming the odds.

Too be fair I don't find H.P. Lovecraft's work "scary" exactly either, but that's because it's just a book. It may be "unnerving" in an aesthetic sort of way, but not scary. Does that make sense?

As for the Reapers It's not that they're are actually unknowable or beyond comprehension just that if you give them a pinned down story or origin it destroys the mystery and reveals them for the simplistic characters they really are. "Oh mer Gawrd Killer Robots." The story is not about the Reapers (they're just there to give narrative conflict) so giving any real origin or motivations to them
is pointless. I would also like to point out that Bioware wasn't Re-making Cthulhu. The theme of the series is one of hope, and personal relationships in adversity blah blah blah. It isn't Cosmic indifference or Cosmic Horror, so the Reapers were never going to be "the Great Old Ones in Space." Of course Sovereign died. If he was unbeatable how could they push a theme of hope?

Also the Old ones exist as higher dimensional beings, so they are incomprehensible on a practical/experiential level. A two dimensional being can't comprehend the third dimension beyond the barest theoretical understanding.

 

[lumenadducere]

Too be fair I don't find H.P. Lovecraft's work "scary" exactly either, but that's because it's just a book. It may be "unnerving" in an aesthetic sort of way, but not scary. Does that make sense?

As for the Reapers It's not that they're are actually unknowable or beyond comprehension just that if you give them a pinned down story or origin it destroys the mystery and reveals them for the simplistic characters they really are. "Oh mer Gawrd Killer Robots." The story is not about the Reapers (they're just there to give narrative conflict) so giving any real origin or motivations to them
is pointless. I would also like to point out that Bioware wasn't Re-making Cthulhu. The theme of the series is one of hope, and personal relationships in adversity blah blah blah. It isn't Cosmic indifference or Cosmic Horror, so the Reapers were never going to be "the Great Old Ones in Space." Of course Sovereign died. If he was unbeatable how could they push a theme of hope?

Also the Old ones exist as higher dimensional beings, so they are incomprehensible on a practical/experiential level. A two dimensional being can't comprehend the third dimension beyond the barest theoretical understanding.

I for one would've been incredibly annoyed if they went the whole series without ever giving an explanation for the Reapers. "Giant alien robots that just want to kill and harvest everyone" may make for a good device for narrative conflict, but it makes for a far too simplistic story in my opinion. No explanation for the Reapers would have made the botched ending even more annoying (and confusing), at least for me personally. Maybe others would have been fine with it but I view it as being a cheap move on the part of the writers.

 

[Beliyal]

I can't be the only one that wasn't thrilled with the "unknowable, beyond your comprehension" thing. To me that's just bad writing. Maybe I'm optimistic about the capability of the human mind to understand things, but anything unknown to me is just something that needs to be discovered and studied in order to be understood. Saying "we're so above you you could never comprehend us" just sounds like the Reapers are hipsters to me. And I find hipsters to be far less scary than robo space squid with a defined origin.

But then, I've never really found Cthulhu or any of the Lovecraftian mythos to be particularly scary, either. The whole "unknowable" thing has never done it for me and I don't get why others find it creepy at all. It's kinda like particle physics, in a way - you can explain it in layman's terms to someone who doesn't know anything about physics. Yes, it won't really be entirely accurate and it'll be extremely simplified, but it's still understandable. Everything has an origin, everything has a motivation, and if need be we can understand in the most basic, dumbed down terms...but it's still a form of understanding.

Plus, it wasn't ME3 that killed the notion of the Reapers as being Cthulhu-esque, it was the end of the first game. Sovereign's death immediately destroys the whole "we're so far beyond you" mystique and lets you know that they're mortal and can die just like anything else. Yes, it requires overwhelming firepower beyond what most civilizations can muster, but it's still doable. That end sequence immediately sets them on an understandable and conquerable level, regardless of how overwhelming the odds.

I agree. To me, Sovreign's "beyond your comprehension" line didn't do much for me the first time and had me rolling my eyes and going "sure, buddy, whatever you say" each time I heard it afterwards. The notion that the Reapers are designed to think this way so as not to question whether it's right to do what they do occurred to me after ME3 and I think it's fascinating in its own way. I don't think it diminishes how scary they are because what made them scary is not being unknowable, it's a being an ancient and innumerable horde of nigh-unstoppable abominations that can turn even the most strong-willed individuals into gibbering puppets or nightmarish monstrosities and that unfailingly and regularly commit genocide on a scale which is in and of itself barely fathomable to the human mind. Finding out more about them in ME2 made them more frightening to me, not less so.

I'm with you guys. While cosmic horror mystery thing is very intriguing (and I am a huge Lovecraft fan myself), I don't think it's really a good thing for a game like Mass Effect. It sure did have scary, unnerving and mysterious parts (and I loved them; speaking to Sovereign for the first time was a unique experience), but overall, it's not a cosmic horror game. I'd very much like the explanation. As a matter of fact, I expect it now. I'd love to see how something like that can be explained and comprehended (despite Sovereign telling us we can't comprehend them. We'd surely try). Observing the entire galaxy and all of its intelligent species teaming together to understand their enemy is something that, to me, sounds much more realistic than billions of people living like a main protagonist in a Lovecraft story.

Anyway, can't wait for this DLC. I'm really interested. The prospect of getting a glimpse of a possibility to understand the Reapers excites me much more than the prospect of the Reapers living on "old glory" of being boogeymen from a story of an early 20th century horror author.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

After the many free multiplayer DLC's, as well as the free Extended Cut DLC, I'm willing to bet that they will charge for this one.

In which case I will do so. I love me some Mass Effect.

It'll be $10. All the multiplayer DLC will ALWAYS be free. All the actual single player DLC will be paid for.

 

[Euryalus]

Too be fair I don't find H.P. Lovecraft's work "scary" exactly either, but that's because it's just a book. It may be "unnerving" in an aesthetic sort of way, but not scary. Does that make sense?

As for the Reapers It's not that they're are actually unknowable or beyond comprehension just that if you give them a pinned down story or origin it destroys the mystery and reveals them for the simplistic characters they really are. "Oh mer Gawrd Killer Robots." The story is not about the Reapers (they're just there to give narrative conflict) so giving any real origin or motivations to them
is pointless. I would also like to point out that Bioware wasn't Re-making Cthulhu. The theme of the series is one of hope, and personal relationships in adversity blah blah blah. It isn't Cosmic indifference or Cosmic Horror, so the Reapers were never going to be "the Great Old Ones in Space." Of course Sovereign died. If he was unbeatable how could they push a theme of hope?

Also the Old ones exist as higher dimensional beings, so they are incomprehensible on a practical/experiential level. A two dimensional being can't comprehend the third dimension beyond the barest theoretical understanding.

I for one would've been incredibly annoyed if they went the whole series without ever giving an explanation for the Reapers. "Giant alien robots that just want to kill and harvest everyone" may make for a good device for narrative conflict, but it makes for a far too simplistic story in my opinion. No explanation for the Reapers would have made the botched ending even more annoying (and confusing), at least for me personally. Maybe others would have been fine with it but I view it as being a cheap move on the part of the writers.

Well then we'll have to disagree Lol. I don't dislike explanation but I think a healthy dose of mystery is good for the kind of story mass effect was trying to tell. Too much mystery is, however, annoying as fuck. A fine line needs to be walked, as always, with characters like the Reapers. The story isn't about them per se but it also wouldn't work without them (or something like them). A better way of doing it, in my opinion, would only have hinted at the Reapers origins (much like Mass Effect 2 did), and left the rest up to imagination. I don't need or want the entire history of the Reaper Race given to me.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Personally, I'd rather be taking back Omega.

Me too. Kicking Cerberus off Omega would be great.

There was another leak from some Data-miners who found stuff relating to a Taking Back Omega DLC. Aria being a temporary squadmate for the DLC was a possibility.

 

[psicat]

These screenshots just confirm what I already agree with.

"Mass Effect is changing (Has changed by now) its target audience, and I'm not in it. What started out as a thoughtful sci-fi setting with music designed to carry the Blade Runner vibe and dialogue that Picard could've spoken now became a goddamn Power Rangers episode full of space ninjas, space marines, anime and cringeworthy oneliners.

Enjoy selling to the 12-18 year old male demographic, Bioware. You are doubtlessly shifting your focus to this easily exploitable market because of your boundless artistic integrity."

Wow the senseless whining by some people over this game continues. I'll eventually buy it since I loved Mass Effect 3. And, I don't think I personally fall into the teenage boy demographic of your little rant since I'm a 35 year old woman.

 

[Lachlan Naisby]

After the many free multiplayer DLC's, as well as the free Extended Cut DLC, I'm willing to bet that they will charge for this one.

You'd be correct on that bet: $10 for Leviathan
$2 for the upcoming single-player weapons pack.
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/08/02/mass-effect-3-leviathan-firefight-dlc-and-wii-u-information/

Frankly, I have my concerns that any new information presented about the Reapers is only going to create additional contradictory continuity in the already fractured trilogy (even discounting the books and comics). Personally, I'd rather be taking back Omega.

Well said ^^

 

[Vanitas likes Bubbles]

Looks interesting..... I will probably get this. I might as well get the weapons pack as well because I can't play multiplayer so I can't use all those new guns. But first I'll have to download all the dlc for ME2 first