Mass effect dev: "Stop thinking you're the producer."

[spectrenihlus]

Oh trust me if they don't change it they will never sell me another game again.

That's what's called an idle threat. You're going to keep on buying games no matter what. I know it, you know it, and the publishers know it, so who are we bullshitting?

-snip-

You also deserve a beer. A fuckin' 6-pack for you, my friend.

Edited the post now, because after three replies like this apparently my point wasn't made clear enough for everybody.

Your point is still a stupid one because you're comparing a privately owned company to elected officials. The accountability for the two is entirely different. Contrary to what the current memetic thinking seems to be, a business and a government are not the same thing.

Besides, I would take what you said more to heart if I saw more thoughtful criticism and less histrionic whining. But since that is not the case...

Of course I'm going to buy video games but I can decide which games I want to buy and I sure as hell am not going to be buying dlc for Mass Effect 3 if this issue isn't resolved.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I would dearly love to see you try. (...and fail)

Edited the post now, because after three replies like this apparently my point wasn't made clear enough for everybody.

Ok, let me see...

Well maybe they should stop making us feel like we can do a better job than they can.

Edit: LAWDY people I said feel like, feel like. I did not claim that I or anyone else could, and nor was that the point I was going for. To fully spell it out for you, I am saying that EA and Bioware are not doing what their customers are expecting from them so that is why are talking so much about how their games should be produced. You may also notice this happens a lot in politics, the way people say "Politician A should be doing X, Y, and Z differently and they should leave Q the hell alone." They aren't saying they could do a better job, they're saying the job being done is not to their liking. Does that make sense, now?

No that isn't what they are saying, but that is what YOU said, isn't it?
It's sure easy to sit on the side lines and criticize when you have little to know idea about what goes into developing a game or running a country or whatever the hell it is you're criticizing.
So I say again, I'd love to see you try and fail and then have everyone slam the living f*ck out of your attempt. Then maybe you'd temper your "criticism" a bit.

EDIT: And that goes for everyone who's whining like a spoiled brat over ME3 right now.

 

[Lilani]

No that isn't what they are saying, but that is what YOU said, isn't it?
It's sure easy to sit on the side lines and criticize when you have little to know idea about what goes into developing a game or running a country or whatever the hell it is you're criticizing.
So I say again, I'd love to see you try and fail and then have everyone slam the living f*ck out of your attempt. Then maybe you'd temper your "criticism" a bit.

EDIT: And that goes for everyone who's whining like a spoiled brat over ME3 right now.

Perhaps I need to specify a little more. I am trying to specifically address the complaints people are having with EA and Bioware's business practices, which until ME3 came out was the VAST majority of topics regarding Bioware and EA. Not how they make the games, but how they sell them. Most people who criticize ME3 as a game and how Bioware did this and that are probably not in a position to do so, but people who are feeling abused by the way EA sells their products are perfectly within their rights to complain. They are complaining about how they are being treated as customers.

It is rather insulting of them to have content on the disc and blocked from use without purchase, and if they have the gall to start whining about people who change the scripts to unlock it then I hope the gaming community gives them an even larger piece of their mind in return. In any other industry that sort of thing would be absolutely ridiculous. You wouldn't see a car sold with leather seats, and a layer of cloth covering the leather that the dealer wants another $100 to remove. When you buy a car, you buy everything in it. And even if you were to buy a car like that, you sure as hell wouldn't waste your money on the dealer. You'd take it home and cut the cloth off yourself.

 

[Madkipz]

Remember Kids.

Modding your own game is piracy. You don't own the disk you paid for. Bioware does.

edit: Chris Priestly is in charge of the Bioware forums.

Please direct me to the qoute of them saying that it isn't on the disk.

Btw: Certification isn't the same as going gold.

More importantly only the place holders are there. None of the voice work or the missions. So it actually still isn't on the disk. I am sorry, but Bioware comes out better than this guy on this subject.

EDIT: He modded a pirated copy btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8&feature=g-user-lik&context=G2cccbb4UCGXQYbcTJ33aalZCQikWcgeZgLWuk3VLKBLIDYlnNdfs

So yea. He is on the disc, and they still claim to not remove content for use as DLC? I would have figured you for a smarter man.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

No that isn't what they are saying, but that is what YOU said, isn't it?
It's sure easy to sit on the side lines and criticize when you have little to know idea about what goes into developing a game or running a country or whatever the hell it is you're criticizing.
So I say again, I'd love to see you try and fail and then have everyone slam the living f*ck out of your attempt. Then maybe you'd temper your "criticism" a bit.

EDIT: And that goes for everyone who's whining like a spoiled brat over ME3 right now.

Perhaps I need to specify a little more. I am trying to specifically address the complaints people are having with EA and Bioware's business practices, which until ME3 came out was the VAST majority of topics regarding Bioware and EA. Not how they make the games, but how they sell them. Most people who criticize ME3 as a game and how Bioware did this and that are probably not in a position to do so, but people who are feeling abused by the way EA sells their products are perfectly within their rights to complain. They are complaining about how they are being treated as customers.

It is rather insulting of them to have content on the disc and blocked from use without purchase, and if they have the gall to start whining about people who change the scripts to unlock it then I hope the gaming community gives them an even larger piece of their mind in return. In any other industry that sort of thing would be absolutely ridiculous. You wouldn't see a car sold with leather seats, and a layer of cloth covering the leather that the dealer wants another $100 to remove. When you buy a car, you buy everything in it. And even if you were to buy a car like that, you sure as hell wouldn't waste your money on the dealer. You'd take it home and cut the cloth off yourself.

Ok while I agree that having the Day 1 "DLC" on the game disc is a dick move, the DLC content itself is not. Esp. as I just saw another thread that explained how day 1 DLC development worked.

 

[Vegosiux]

Christina Norman: "Stop thinking you're a producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content."


Gabe Newell: "The customer is basically our CEO."

One of those people is the head of the company still.

The other was just an employee there in the past and no longer is.

It's almost like there's a difference. Derp derp.

And I think this pretty much covers it.

But of course, people still seem to think they're going to win points either way by insulting others....

 

[Vegosiux]

No that isn't what they are saying, but that is what YOU said, isn't it?
It's sure easy to sit on the side lines and criticize when you have little to know idea about what goes into developing a game or running a country or whatever the hell it is you're criticizing.
So I say again, I'd love to see you try and fail and then have everyone slam the living f*ck out of your attempt. Then maybe you'd temper your "criticism" a bit.

EDIT: And that goes for everyone who's whining like a spoiled brat over ME3 right now.

Perhaps I need to specify a little more. I am trying to specifically address the complaints people are having with EA and Bioware's business practices, which until ME3 came out was the VAST majority of topics regarding Bioware and EA. Not how they make the games, but how they sell them. Most people who criticize ME3 as a game and how Bioware did this and that are probably not in a position to do so, but people who are feeling abused by the way EA sells their products are perfectly within their rights to complain. They are complaining about how they are being treated as customers.

It is rather insulting of them to have content on the disc and blocked from use without purchase, and if they have the gall to start whining about people who change the scripts to unlock it then I hope the gaming community gives them an even larger piece of their mind in return. In any other industry that sort of thing would be absolutely ridiculous. You wouldn't see a car sold with leather seats, and a layer of cloth covering the leather that the dealer wants another $100 to remove. When you buy a car, you buy everything in it. And even if you were to buy a car like that, you sure as hell wouldn't waste your money on the dealer. You'd take it home and cut the cloth off yourself.

Ah but for that analogy to work here is the problem.

Every car produced had to get the leather seats. And that means production cost goes up. And you dont get the choice to get a cheaper model without the leather seats. You are given a choice here. For your analogy to be correct only the collectors edition should be available and that means its price tag as well.

Great. A car analogy again.

You know. Video games aren't cars. Leather seats don't add anything to functionality of a car, they're just fancy.

 

[Harb]

that is like saying because you pay for a movie ticket you get to demand the director change th movie.

How can people be so entitled?

Hello SajuukKhar, are you EA or Bioware employee? I've seen you being very active in almost every single Mass Effect 3 thread defending developers / publishers and discarding whatever negative players say about the game / developers / publishers.

Not to mention sometimes claiming things only a publisher would want to / wish. E.g. When buying a game you don't own the dics. If a game is legally purchased in many (at least) European countries you buy a license to use the product as well as the medium its provided on. You don't own the code, but you do own the disc. Since the customer can't be held responsible for even intentional damage of the physical media.

 

[Lilani]

Ah but for that analogy to work here is the problem.

Every car produced had to get the leather seats. And that means production cost goes up. And you dont get the choice to get a cheaper model without the leather seats. You are given a choice here. For your analogy to be correct only the collectors edition should be available and that means its price tag as well.

I feel like the analogy still works, because the extra work and cost is already there. When you pay for disc-locked DLC, you are paying for something that was already on the disc and ready to go, just as those leather seats on the car were ready to go. Then they go through even more effort to fit and burn it onto the disc and hide and lock it, just so they can charge you more later. If it's on the disc, it's mine. If you paid extra to make it and you want more money for it, then don't put in on the disc I've already paid for. Any money lost is their fault, not ours. They were the ones stupid enough to put it on the disc.

Ok while I agree that having the Day 1 "DLC" on the game disc is a dick move, the DLC content itself is not. Esp. as I just saw another thread that explained how day 1 DLC development worked.

I have absolutely no problem with DLC, though the day one does not settle well with me. I see it as a difference in thought between producer and customer. The producer sees it as extra content they paid extra to make, so it's like a convenient and instantly available treat for us to buy. Customers see it as something they developed at the same time, and because of that it must be as important as the primary. If they are going to make DLC at the same time as the game, fine, but they should at least have the decency to wait a few months before releasing it so we don't feel as though we've been cheated out of something that was either developed alongside or was simply cut out of the main game. It's a matter of respect for your customer. If EA wants to screw us, they should at least be classy and make an effort to not make us aware we're being screwed.

 

[Harb]

http://kotaku.com/5892199/stop-thinking-youre-a-producer-former-mass-effect-designer-tells-gamers

Well, as the people who buy your games, I say we shouldn't be exploited.

EDIT: Just so people know, I have not bought Mass Effect 3.

Her attitude is wrong on so many different levels (and just to make things accurate, she doesn't work for Bioware anymore).

1) Customers have right to express their wishes and demands in civilized manner and it should be in publisher's best interest to listen to it since money goes only one way. You sell things by meeting the demand, that's how things work. Producers should not expect customers to stand in line and blindly buy everything that is tossed their way (no matter how hard many game publishers want this).

2) Believe it or not, even educated and intelligent people play games. The worst mistake to make is to believe that you're (or she or anyone else) the smartest person on the world. There is always someone more intelligent. The key is to have that person on your side.

3) Taking content out of a game and selling it extra while also charging full AAA price for that game is unethical. You don't need to be a game developer mastermind to understand what ethics is. Fair thing to do would be giving the DLC for free since clearly large portion of it has been done before the major game content was finished.

4) There is a point of releasing an expansion year after. You just need to market it right and sell large chunk of new content for reasonable price. Brood War. The Lord of Destruction. Mask of the Betrayer. Every single content patch that has been released for Team Fortress 2 by Valve. Civ IV: Beyond the Sword. Galactic Civilizations 2: Twilight of Arnor. Shall I continue? If you announce an expansion soon after the release, people are more likely to keep the game.

So I also have words for her: Stop thinking you can get away with everything in gaming industry. Gamers are customers like others.

 

[jpoon]

I completely agree with what the guy says, players shouldn't be producing these games. The DLC scheme they have going is BS, if I did buy this game I would not pay for the DLC.

 

[Vegosiux]

1) Customers have right to express their wishes and demands in civilized manner

True. So when are gamers going to start doing that?

The moment we stop getting called "entitled" for wanting to protect our consumer rights. Until then, everything is fair game.

 

[Gamergeek25]

http://kotaku.com/5892199/stop-thinking-youre-a-producer-former-mass-effect-designer-tells-gamers

Well, as the people who buy your games and pay for your salaries, I say we shouldn't be exploited.

snip

That was brillaint