Mass Effect isn't an RPG?!

[Sronpop]

Truthfully I much prefer Mass Effects take on the RPG genre than other games who follow the genres more strict rules. A RPG does not need to be a glorified looting game with lots of stats and items to worry about, it should, at its core be about the character you are playing and how it relates to you and your experience.

The fact that people bash on ME2 for losing so called RPG elements is mind boggling, if anything it is more of an RPG than the first one since the narrative is so much deeper(although the morality in the first one was handled with just the right amount of care compared to the seconds which felt a little extreme at times).

A sincerely wish more 'RPG' games decide to follow the route of mass effect move away from the genres strict guidelines for what it should be.

 

[ChocoFace]

snip

soooo... every game ever created can be thought of as an RPG? alright.

And yes, Mass Effect is definitely an RPG. If you want to tag it with a sub-genre, it'd be shooter, as in RPG-shooter. Simple as that.

 

[oceanwavezero]

I'd like to point out FPS is hardly a genre, but a control scheme. There are games people just define as FPSes because they're action movie style and doesn't take gameplay beyond movement, such as Army of Two. And then multiplayer FPSes which are hardly anything other than the controls. As soon as there is some customization, statbuilding, true exploration, or well told story involved; it is no longer just an FPS, as it has become something more than the controls.

 

[Mutie]

I have stopped classing games as RPGs. Despite the fact that they are my favourite game, it is a moot term. You always play a role in any game, perhaps even LESS so in RPGs... (silent protagonists and such)

The only series I can comfortably call and RPG is the Fable series, but I know everyone in the world ever will disagree with me. Ever other game ever is just and Action Adventure. Judge a game by it's own qualities, not by it's supposed genre's... apart form, like, sports games and racing games.

 

[mad825]

I can't accept Mass Effect as an RPG because Shepard is already a defined character. What sets an RPG apart is the slot where you define your own character.

Then KOTOR isn't an RPG either because Revan is already a defined character.

I think that's nonsense. Only Shepard's name is already defined. You can choose Shepard's sex, talents, play style, love interest, personality, etc. That's enough for me to call it a role playing game.

perhaps you need to go play KOTOR again? you are playing as someone who has "amnesia", you may wish to "become" Revan again if you wish however but you are still technically a new person who has yet to predefine their (your) identity

again, you fail to see why they left the surname unchangeable, as you could see Bioware wanted the voice acting to relate to the user and the only way to do that was to have a predefine (sur)name.

 

[JackRyan64]

This is why we need new game genres. Seriously, who cares if it's an RPG?

Edit: Is it just me, or do people seem to think that if you label a certain game as an RPG it's inherently superior to other games just because it's an RPG? I think people really need to get their heads out of their asses and stop caring about what genres their games are. The Zelda games and Half-Life games aren't typically considered RPG's, but they're still WAY better than any of the tripe BioWare or any non-Fallout thing Bethesda puts out IMHO.

 

[ChocoFace]

Exactly.It isn't so much more complicated than that.

Oh. you thought i was agreeing with you. awkward. I actually think you have serious flaws in your arguments and that you're making less sense by the minute.

 

[dlawnro]

In my opinion, the classification "RPG" deals with the story, the ability to make a character the way you want it to be and actively choose how you want the character to act when the situation allows for more than one option.
Things like turn-based systems or first-person shooting deal with the combat. Because of that, the story itself and the ability to do the previously mentioned things are not affected by whether the game is a shooter or turn-based or what have you. They are two completely different elements of the game. An RPG can have turn-based or shooting combat, in the same way a linear game can have either of those systems.

Basically, whether a game is an RPG or not has nothing to do with the combat because combat and story are like an engine and a battery in a car; they're two completely separate things that rely on one another, but changing the battery doesn't make the engine any different.

 

[Oinodaemon]

isnt every game more or less a role playing game? In mario, i play the role of a plumber sucked into the mushroom kingdom, rescuing a princess. In Kotor, i play the role of an amnesiac Sith lord. In JRPG's, i play the role of an androgynous teen trying to save the world from some sort of evil thing.

i could go on and on....ANY game can fit into these confines, and EVERY game is a role playing game...

 

[Xanadu84]

The problem is that simply defining a Role playing game as a game where you take on the role of a character would mean that Half Life is a Role playing game. Red Alert would be a Roleplaying game. Katimary would be a Roleplaying game. And quite possibly, you could argue that Final Fantasy, Baulders Gate and Dragon Age ARN'T Roleplaying Games, because you control a number of characters instead of just one. So lets try to break it down a little more, and, Ill grant, purely from my perspective.

First of all, the idea of Role Playing is universal to nearly all games. When the game is meant to express a story of some sort, you take on the roles of the entities involved in order to make meaningful choices. Role playing is ubiquitous even outside of our defined RPG Genre. Thanks to the early P+P RPG systems, and the association between the idea of playing a role, and making a story, the RPG Genre came into being.

Some games are more RPG-ish then others: There is no discrete line. Its like lightening up the color red, and trying to say when it turns into pink. It is entirely subjective, and a sliding scale that people can legitimately disagree on, even though everyone can agree that as you get very light, it's universally seen as pink. You can agree on the directions, but not necessarily the lines. What traits add RPG Flavor? Well I think they are these.

1) Emphasis on choosing the physical actions of an individual, leading to an effect on the game state.
2) Emphasis on the ability to choose the abilities and characteristics of that individual.

A shooter or action game focuses less on the choosing of the physical action, and more on a simulation of the action itself. An RPG is more prone to letting you choose, and then observing the consequence. RPGs tend to allow customization to give the person more choice over the characters properties. Other games streamline the process, or give a set path. This definition seems to be surprisingly robust.

In my opinion, Mass Effect was an RPG with heavy action elements. Mass Effect 2 is an action game with heavy RPG elements. To argue over if it is a shooter or RPG is like agreeing that a person is 6 foot 1, but arguing over if that means that he is, "Tall".

 

[UBERfionn]

Your 100% right in my book.

It's about making and ROLE PLAYING your character.
JRPG's are not RPG's for that reason.

The same goes for you too.

RPG's are about role playing. Menu systems and exp help in the role playing but it's just one part of it. the core is the role playing.

I'm sure there are some JRPG's that do have proper role playing in them but mmost don't and are still labeled as RPG's.

JRPG's can be awesome but just because you have exp and menu's does not make you an RPG.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I mean, what defines an Role Playing Game? I know a lot of people here would disagree with this, but both me and my friend agree that the proof is in the title. Role Playing. You're character is your own. The games story bends and twists at your actions. The exact type of thing that KotOR does. And that's my argument.

And that's where you are wrong.
Roleplaying implies putting yourself into the role of a character and acting how that character would act.
Roleplaying does NOT imply you creating yourself in a game and doing the choices YOU would make.

That's something that Bioware didn't understand when they choose to bash Final Fantasy.

I'll put it like this;
Roleplaying is a very broad perspective. Any game where you are thrust into a character and ordered to act as that one can be dubbed Roleplaying. Because RPG does not need to involve stats nor choices nor a fantasy world even though that's what we've come to get used to with the term.

In general, Roleplaying games are easily spotted and yes, Mass Effect is an RPG/TPS hybrid - but is that a bad thing? Neverwinter Nights is a RPG/ThirdPerson game also. Oblivion is a RPG/FP/TP and so is Morrowind.

But if we're going to get alteast one thing straight, it's this;

[HEADING=1]Roleplaying games are not solely about you creating a character and doing "choices". It's about putting yourself into the role of a character and living it out. If anyone refuse to accept that term, then you simply don't understand it and are free to ego-roleplay as much as you'd want.[/HEADING]​

And herein lies the main problem with this entire dumb argument; there is no concrete definition for what the term role-playing actually encompasses. That term means many different things for different people. Some people view it the way you do, others have the opposite viewpoint. But neither side is correct. God never came down from Heaven and proclaimed one definition to be superior to the other. So your definition of role playing game isn't correct. Neither is anyone elses. Hence leading to this pointless argument in which both sides fiercely bicker over a pointless label, when neither side has any proof that they are actually correct. It's one of the most absurd arguments I've ever heard, and I have no idea why so many people participate in it when it is only about classification, and nothing more.

 

[Thaius]

snip

Of course Exp progression and menus fit really well into RPG's it doesn't make a game an RPG.
Just because Deus Ex has exp and augments does not make it an RPG. It's the role playing that would make it an RPG.

So my point is you can have anything in a game but it's not an RPG unless you role play.
It just so happens that menus and exp work well with RPG's.

Experience progression and character customization (in terms of their battle style, equipment, and abilities) is no less vital to RPGs than the role playing itself. In Final Fantasy VII, for instance, you may not have been able to control Cloud's name, look, and personality, but you could control nearly every aspect of how he fought. You could make him the healer, the black mage, the fighter, the summoner... it's not like the player has no control in a JRPG, it's just not of the character's personality.

Point is, tabletop RPGs like D&D were the inspiration for RPG video games. In the situation of the tabletop games, if you take experience progression and battle customization out of them they will be shallow shells of what they once were, no less so than if you took out the player choice of personality and story choices. All these elements are absolutely vital to the success of the game, no one more than the next.

In a video game, not all of these things are absolutely vital to work together. But just because one is missing doesn't mean the game is suddenly not an RPG. All are important, and the inclusion of any of them as a main focus of the game makes it an RPG. In other words...

[HEADING=1]Roleplaying games are not solely about you creating a character and doing "choices". It's about putting yourself into the role of a character and living it out. If anyone refuse to accept that term, then you simply don't understand it and are free to ego-roleplay as much as you'd want.[/HEADING]​

Well said, Zeithri.