Mature Games That You Think Are Actually Mature

[soren7550]

(just to clarify, I got the idea after reading this [http://www.gamesradar.com/f/classicradar-mature-games-that-are-actually-mature/a-20110311122812248019])

So Escapists, is there a game(s) that you think is/are actually mature (not mature as in full of boobs/swears/gore, but as in they show the mental, emotional, or physical characteristics associated with a fully developed person, involve serious thought and etc.)? And if you do, please post what game and why.

One that I have to say that probably no one would say is Modern Warfare 2. Before you start screaming how it's crap or how you didn't get it, let me explain why I pick it.
The story essentially boils down to the question of where does patriotism end and terrorism begin? Yes, it starts simple enough (badass good guys must stop bad guys), but as the game goes on, what qualifies as acts of patriotism and acts of terrorism thins as the story progresses. The heinous act of slaughtering innocent civilians isn't as simple as an act of terrorism, but is instead part of one man's deranged plan of rejuvenating his country's sense of patriotism. An ally launches a ICBM missile against all orders and ends up destroying the ISS, but does so to ultimately save lives and to give the American fighting forces a chance to overcome their invaders.
The man that initially comes out as a hero is ultimately a bad guy, but in a way, all his traitorous acts are all for the greater good (bring down a big terrorist all the while making his fellow countrymen feel love and pride for their nation once more).
The game also addresses blindly following orders, as it's shown that it's you and your allies demise, as it leads one character to cause the invasion of the United States, and for others to be slaughtered after they unknowingly retrieve information that links their commander to the terrorist they've been sent to stop. For the remaining members of the doomed Task Force, they who are the true patriots are marked as traitors by the very traitor who everyone else sees as a hero. Ultimately, they rid the world of this treacherous traitor, but they are still marked as war criminals.

(sorry if the above is a bit garbled, it's late and I'm sleepy)

 

[Avatar Roku]

I'd have to say Knights of the Old Republic 2. Read this [http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/] LP for a more detailed explanation, but here's the simple version. A mature look at the Star Wars universe, which does not go the normal route of depicting the jedi as Jesus mixed with superman, but instead shows them as the reactionary, stubborn, dogmatic old men they would have to be. Add to that that they pulled off one of the only truly, 100% successful examples of a completely cryptic, wise old teacher character (with the twist that she lies ALL THE TIME), and you have an amazing game.

 

[Vrex360]

I always thought Bioshock was actually fitting of the 'mature' label. It isn't being silly or trivial with the way it displays the grim remains of the once proud city of Rapture. While the ultra good ending was a little overdone (as was the evil ending, truth be told) it still carried some deep themes of philosophy and created great atmosphere and depth to the player in a fully realized world.
True, the sequel's action heavy emphasis kind of killed that, but the atmosphere and story and setting of Bioshock 1 had always struck me as a good example of a mature rated game that actually was being mature with it's subject matter. It wasn't pushing horror ridiculously hard in your face, or adding comedic relief to the story or trying way too hard with the angst factor.

I'd also argue the Mass Effects, with Mass Effect 1 in particular. Although there were some silly moments in both the series's, there was also enough depth within to allow for great discussions because, in the first one particularly, there was a lot of moral ambiguity that in turn made for great debates.
I mean look at a lot of the great historical conflicts in Mass Effect, a lot of them don't have a clear good guy. The Geth Quarian war for example in which both sides attempted genocide on the other so it's really hard to argue over who had the moral high ground.

I like the moral ambiguity of the series and why not everyone and everything is absolutely perfect and absolutely agreeable. It's one of the reasons I liked the character Ashley Williams so much because she's not characterized to be the ideal nerd dream girl, but also isn't made into a character we are directly expected to hate. She reigns in with equal measure, good aspects of a person and bad aspects and in turn helped make her feel like a fully realized humanized character. One with qualities and flaws.
(and as usual, please do not flame me for saying that I like Ashley)

It's kind of a shame Mass Effect 2 seemed to be trying to simplify things a little too much. That said the degree of moral ambigiuity is still present within Mass Effect 2 both in setting and characterization, it's just that everything is starting to feel more streamlined and cardboard cutout like.

But still, moral ambiguity does exist within Mass Effect and the fact that it can lead us to having huge debates on very big topical issues like racism, war, politics, nationalism, equality and even what it means to be considered 'human', despite all the creepy fan art, angry mispelled accusations about characters that appear on youtube comment pages, silly webcomics and sometimes really obnoxious people within the fanbase and even some rather obnoxious writing choices from the actual games themselves... within them remains that soul of a great game with compelling narrative and story structure as well as characters and just genuine depth.

 

[The Madman]

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

With a name like that and a cheesy cover on the box showing a scantily clad 'vampiress' you might expect it to be gratuitous and ridiculous. The worst sort of pulp-gaming. But it isn't! Bloodlines is a surprisingly well designed, thoughtful, clever, and in some ways brilliant rpg the likes of which we rarely see. The setting is dark and grim, matching a similarly mature story which holds back absolutely no punches when it comes to the foul nature of the games characters and setting. Couple that with a fantastic script, brilliant dialogue, and some of the best voice acting I've ever heard from a game and you've got a damned genius little game which was only held back by its mediocre combat and flawed release.

Frankly I'm amazed the game didn't receive the dreaded 'AO' rating considering some of the things the game presents; some examples of which include a glimpse into a 'snuff film' industry', a freakish mass murderer and his tortured 'patients', a house literally decorated with human flesh, and a fun mission where you're sent to assassinate a stripper in-between shows.

Damned good game. Extremely good. But definitely not something I want kids to be playing!

 

[Cheesepower5]

Final Fantasy Tactics has a "T" rating, but it's pretty damn mature. Except the botched Playstation translation.

I could go on, but most of the others I have are on that list.

 

[Zhukov]

A mature video game you say?

Umm... lemme think.

...

Still thinking.

...

Y'know what? I don't think the industry is quite there yet. About the closest I can think of is Bioshock or Ico. And even then I'm probably just kidding myself.

 

[Savagezion]

Mass Effect. There is a lot of reasons as to why and you all knew it would pop up in this thread. But I think it is a shining example of a mature game. The high levels of racism make it feel "real" and easily immersible and has a good deal of depth. Hell, the races in the game alone are a testament to good story. But when you add in the politics and racism amongst the many species, well, I'll just say it was handled really well.

I knew that game was special when you had to talk to the madam on your first trip to the citadel and how well done that "scene" was. You can imagine what I was expecting going to an alien "cathouse" in an M rated game. "Well, here's the part where I get sex shoved in my face" I thought, as I headed towards the mission. I was shocked when it was merely slight innuendo as would be in the situation but mostly focusing on the matter at hand. That whole scene gave me a tremendous amount of respect for the game which Bioware has so far just done good follow through on.

This is why I get so irritated by people saying it "handles sex inappropriately". Which usually what they mean is "Oh no a game has a sexual theme present in it!" But really there is a lot of good stuff in Mas Effect.

P.S. Was cool to see Amber on that list as it is one of my sisters favorite games I always thought looked stupid. I may have to see about borrowing it from her.

 

[Tony2077]

persona 3 and 4 are the closest ones i can think of

 

[Extraintrovert]

I second the nomination for Bioshock and Knights of the Old Republic 2. Myself, I'm going to add Half-Life 2. The characters assume Gordon knows most of what has happened, and so any standard info dumps are completely excised, allowing the player to experience and discover the horrors of Combine rule and the incredible damage humans and the planet itself has suffered more naturally and subtlely (such as seeing unarmed people shot in the back as they flee, or a house with old, carefully dug graves at one side and a far newer pile of charred corpses at the other side). Well, except Ravenholm, that was less subtle, but Grigori was awesome, so he balances it out.

The nomination for Modern Warfare 2, however, is just silly. Terrorism is a tactic, not a philosophy, and while it can be implemented for the sake of patriotism it has no relation to it. Also, the idea that a "deranged plan of rejuvenating his country's sense of patriotism" is in any way good is laughable, considering patriotism is the kind of "we are inherently better than you" emotion that leads to such madness in the first. (Granted, I am not familiar with the game so I have no idea what actually happened, so my commentary is probably widely inaccurate.)

 

[Jumplion]

In lieu of the Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit choice in the article, I'd also have to say Heavy Rain could be a Mature game that is "mature". It definitely tried to give a more mature atmosphere to the murder mystery and did it's best to present it in a dignified and mature manner. Whether it succeeded is debatable for some, but I do think that it is one of the more mature games I have played that actually was mature with itself.

BioShock is also a great example of a "mature" game actually being "mature". Taken on its own it's a pretty ridiculous premise, but the game itself inserts a bunch of different themes expertly woven together and does so in a way that doesn't make the game any less fun and without bludgeoning the point to the audience.

I'd list some more, but I'm lazy right now. Gaming still has a long way to go before it'll get their Citizen Kane's, Mona Lisa's, whateverthehell analogy you want to make. But, hey, I'm a patient man.

[sup]And I'm losing patience...[/sup]

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Final Fantasy Tactics has a "T" rating, but it's pretty damn mature. Except the botched Playstation translation.

I could go on, but most of the others I have are on that list.

Yeah, Squaresoft had a terrible localization team at that point. FFVII came out around the same time, and it wasn't much better. However, even through the botched translation, Final Fantasy Tactics stands out as one of the best videogame stories I've ever seen, and the best Final Fantasy story.

OT: I hate to say this, but I haven't gotten far enough in any "serious" M rated games to give a proper analysis. I never got past the first level of Deus Ex, I didn't get very far at all in Fallout, the stories in Half Life and Half Life 2 didn't strike me as particularly mature, and I haven't played most of the rest of them at all. The Metal Gear games have a pretty cool story, and deal with some honestly mature themes, but they're also full of middle school level "mature" humor, which cheapens the effect. This is an intriguing question.

 

[DaHero]

People! Have we all forgotten about Deus Ex?

Oh and I've found Golf Star to be very Mature, even if it's rated E.

 

[EzraPound]

Most--though not all--mature games seem to target an audience younger than E or Teen-rated games, in the same way that many of the most violent films (Saw, etc.) are often clearly aimed at a teenage audience. Like, HEY, YOUR DOING SOMETHING SUBVERSIVE BY PLAYING THIS LOOK AT ALL THE BLOOD AND GORE

But yeah--Deus Ex is fairly mature in a hokey kind of way. As was BioShock, at least on a narrative level, and Conker's Bad Fur Day--though slapstick--often featured Pythonesque allusions and wordplay that might elude a younger player.

 

[artemisfox]

killer 7 flat out.
deep plot (like holy crap deep), grisly murders (not only does this one guy kill his partner's whole family, but rapes his wife beheads his daughter drops it at his partners feet. then unloads 3 rounds point blank), and all the AAA voice acting you can muster.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

I second the nomination for Bioshock and Knights of the Old Republic 2. Myself, I'm going to add Half-Life 2. The characters assume Gordon knows most of what has happened, and so any standard info dumps are completely excised, allowing the player to experience and discover the horrors of Combine rule and the incredible damage humans and the planet itself has suffered more naturally and subtlely (such as seeing unarmed people shot in the back as they flee, or a house with old, carefully dug graves at one side and a far newer pile of charred corpses at the other side). Well, except Ravenholm, that was less subtle, but Grigori was awesome, so he balances it out.

The nomination for Modern Warfare 2, however, is just silly. Terrorism is a tactic, not a philosophy, and while it can be implemented for the sake of patriotism it has no relation to it. Also, the idea that a "deranged plan of rejuvenating his country's sense of patriotism" is in any way good is laughable, considering patriotism is the kind of "we are inherently better than you" emotion that leads to such madness in the first. (Granted, I am not familiar with the game so I have no idea what actually happened, so my commentary is probably widely inaccurate.)

Right, because the American public expressed no outrage over the 9/11 attacks, the sinking of the Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, or the attack on Pearl Harbor. None of these things contributed in any way, shape, or form to the US entering four different wars.

Nationalism is what you're thinking of.

 

[Cyrus Hanley]

The franchise that first came to my mind was Silent Hill and I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it yet.

 

[Extraintrovert]

The nomination for Modern Warfare 2, however, is just silly. Terrorism is a tactic, not a philosophy, and while it can be implemented for the sake of patriotism it has no relation to it. Also, the idea that a "deranged plan of rejuvenating his country's sense of patriotism" is in any way good is laughable, considering patriotism is the kind of "we are inherently better than you" emotion that leads to such madness in the first. (Granted, I am not familiar with the game so I have no idea what actually happened, so my commentary is probably widely inaccurate.)

Right, because the American public expressed no outrage over the 9/11 attacks, the sinking of the Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, or the attack on Pearl Harbor. None of these things contributed in any way, shape, or form to the US entering four different wars.

Nationalism is what you're thinking of.

I like the part where you mention events to which I did not even allude and which have no relevance to what I typed. Next time actually try reading the comment before replying to it.

 

[MrGalactus]

I know it's not out but L.A. Noire is the only example really.