McCain?

[Doug]

I'm not American, but if McCain gets in I will loose all faith in humanity and likely kill myself out of disgust and will be making that fact very clear in my suicide note.

Here is a question why do you care who wins office in a forign state, unless you are Iran it dosent really affect you.

Ok, thats ridiculus - the USA is a huge economic and military power - whoever wins their, the rest of the world IS affected. The reserve is true, but to a significantly smaller degree, for now.

 

[Johnn Johnston]

Im all for universal health care (a perfect copy of the british NHS woudl make me perfectly giddy), but he still makes me uneasy.

Hopefully not a carbon copy. We've got some serious flaws in it over here. But, if they could be sorted out, I see no reason why a universal healthcare system shouldn't be set up (provided the people treated had not brought it upon themselves).

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

Not worth arguing over.
Fools love misconceptions that support them.

The pot calling the kettle black?

Whilst the kettle is red?

 

[Doug]

Im all for universal health care (a perfect copy of the british NHS woudl make me perfectly giddy), but he still makes me uneasy.

You might prefer one that's efficient and works better than ours

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Not worth arguing over.
Fools love misconceptions that support them.

And yet, you're still here.

Thanks for contributing yet again.

 

[Johnn Johnston]

Not worth arguing over.

Can you clarify what part isn't worth debating over? There have been several topics in this thread. I hope you aren't saying that the whole topic isn't worth arguing over, because I always love to have my political views challenged in a debate.

*EDIT* Whoah, triple ninja.

 

[edinflames]

McCain actually has the potential to do something.
Obama just waves his hand like a celeberity. Couldn't they have at least gotten someone like Brad Pitt to do that? Hell it'd be like electing the same man...

On a fair note, the reason people despise Bush and McCain is because they fail to see the good accomplished by the Bush administration. We took an enemy that wanted to attack us and moved the target from our homeland to a location in the Middle East. Sorry that we don't have time to spend money on "social programs" due to an economy that was bound to collapse regardless if we had gone to war, when the previous administration failed to properly take care of the leftovers Bush had to deal with.

So what if he did lie?

You'd stutter too if you had so many countries which wished to wipe your country off the face of the earth without justification.

Watch the BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares". 3 Part series tells full history of the neo-cons and al-qaida. You have been lied to quite a lot, for quite a long time.

McCain will continue to lie. He will 'Bomb bomb Iran'. People like you may even call out for him to do it, as the White House pumps out fear-mongering reports. The world will be a sh*ttier place.

The concept that America is a nation with a unique destiny - to be the force for good and freedom in the world, where evil enemies threaten its very existence and must be defeated - is an invented one. Developed by the pre-neo-con political philosopher Leonard Strauss, as he believed the people of a nation required a mythological element to their identity, to give ordinary people a sense of purpose, a collective destiny, in order to provide social cohesion and order, to combat the excesses of liberalism; the truth need only be known by the intellectual ruling class, who apparently guide America towards its global manifest destiny. Look into your own history, this myth is less than 60 years old. The notion that Al-Qaida is a mafia like organisation with sleeper cells in over 50 countries, is similarly a false invention, devised after the first WTC bombing so that Bin Laden could be prosecuted in his absence back in the 90's - a false invention which stuck, since it gives us an identifiable enemy. The real threat, the real Al-Qaida is the ideology which creates suicide bombers, and the Western World has entirely failed to combat that. Probably because bombing people does not really bring them round to your way of thinking.

The rhetoric being used today by governments around the world, not just the bush administration closely resembles that used by Reagan and the neo-cons in the 1980's, after the falsified CIA reports were used to justify greater military spending (Star Wars - bad joke).

Similarly, until the Monica Lewinsky business (boy did Billy f*ck up there) the sh*t dished out in the news about him being corrupt - having ludicrous numbers of sexual partners, using drugs while in office - were all false. A hack journalist was paid a LOT of money on behalf of a neo-con thinktank to assemble a team to dig up dirt and make stories where there was none.

Democrats lie as well as the Republicans, the difference is: when the Republicans lie, they lie BIG. War big. Its not like Obama is going to change the world, or put everything to rights, but surely its got to be better than another old white Republican.

On a slight tangent: The only two republics in the history of the world which have risen to position of no.1 world power are those of the USA and Rome. It took two generations for Rome to change from Republic to Empire, elected Senate to hereditary Monarchy. Worth remembering.

Apologies for length.

 

[Alex_P]

McCain actually has the potential to do something.

Nope, he doesn't.

If elected, McCain will be facing Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress. Hell, right now there's a good chance that the Democrats could get fillibuster-proof control of both houses.

Recent events have also shown that McCain is likely to have a lot of trouble controlling his own party. Remember that whole thing when he flew to Washington to pass the bail-out and then all the other Republicans decided it was a bad idea? Doesn't bode well for his ability to rally his own party around his legislative agenda.

So, the McCain tax cut and the McCain health plan and the McCain spending freeze are already dead regardless of who wins the election, because the legislature is going to be ridiculously hostile to any of those things.

As the executive, McCain would still have a lot of power over our actions in Iraq. His ability to really "do something" in Iraq is still going to be constrained by Congressional budgets, however.

So, what's left? Foreign relations and Supreme Court justices?

-- Alex

 

[sneakypenguin]

Your electoral college system really does suck ass

It's actually a good thing it keeps some states from having too much say in elections. An example(of no EC system) would be Il. Chicago controls that states agenda because it is the premire population center. So the electoral college system allows lesser states and population centers a bigger say in running the country. Without the EC the northeast would have the biggest control of elections leaving the south and midwest with very little imput into elections.

 

[Johnn Johnston]

I'm quite uneasy about how stable the world would be if he took over. Skip to 00:35 in the video if you don't understand why.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

 

[OuroborosChoked]

I'm quite uneasy about how stable the world would be if he took over. Skip to 00:35 in the video if you don't understand why.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

LOL! Violence!

Yech. Sickening.

 

[Lazzi]

Im all for universal health care (a perfect copy of the british NHS woudl make me perfectly giddy), but he still makes me uneasy.

Hopefully not a carbon copy. We've got some serious flaws in it over here. But, if they could be sorted out, I see no reason why a universal healthcare system shouldn't be set up (provided the people treated had not brought it upon themselves).

A Carbon copy of your would still be much better than what we have here (considering the fact that i have the means for a tax increase and dont partact in paricularly risky behaivor).

Every system can uses improvement, if it didnt then people wouldnt care about it.

 

[mike1921]

It's actually a good thing it keeps some states from having too much say in elections. An example(of no EC system) would be Il. Chicago controls that states agenda because it is the premire population center. So the electoral college system allows lesser states and population centers a bigger say in running the country. Without the EC the northeast would have the biggest control of elections leaving the south and midwest with very little imput into elections.

Bullshit.

The bigger states still have much more power than the little ones.

. Without the EC the northeast would have the biggest control of elections leaving the south and midwest with very little imput into elections.

And if they have the most population what's the problem with that. More people should equal more power. And, it's "we the people" not "we the states".

All the EC does is make it so your vote does not count if the state you're in is against the candidate you want in office.

 

[Doug]

Your electoral college system really does suck ass

It's actually a good thing it keeps some states from having too much say in elections. An example(of no EC system) would be Il. Chicago controls that states agenda because it is the premire population center. So the electoral college system allows lesser states and population centers a bigger say in running the country. Without the EC the northeast would have the biggest control of elections leaving the south and midwest with very little imput into elections.

Erm, surely the number of people is what should determine the election, not the states. If there really are fewer people in those states, surely its fair that they have a lesser say?

 

[Redlac]

I like McCain, he makes good Oven Chips.

..and now I've lost most of the Americans with an obscure reference.

On a more serious note, I'm not fussed which one wins. Actions speak louder than words, and how many politicians over the years have said they'll do something and not delivered? I'll be happy whoever gets in as long as they don't do something ridiculously stupid.

And just to clarify, 'ridiculously stupid' isn't just a reference to another daft war. Mucking up a good country counts too.

*Wishes his Cousins across the pond all the best*

 

[OuroborosChoked]

Your electoral college system really does suck ass

It's actually a good thing it keeps some states from having too much say in elections. An example(of no EC system) would be Il. Chicago controls that states agenda because it is the premire population center. So the electoral college system allows lesser states and population centers a bigger say in running the country. Without the EC the northeast would have the biggest control of elections leaving the south and midwest with very little imput into elections.

Erm, surely the number of people is what should determine the election, not the states. If there really are fewer people in those states, surely its fair that they have a lesser say?

Question! Semi-related to what Doug said, how do states figure into direct (non-electoral college) voting anyway? Wouldn't it come down to each person's vote counting?

I'm against the electoral college. It makes no sense at all.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

Your electoral college system really does suck ass

It's actually a good thing it keeps some states from having too much say in elections. An example(of no EC system) would be Il. Chicago controls that states agenda because it is the premire population center. So the electoral college system allows lesser states and population centers a bigger say in running the country. Without the EC the northeast would have the biggest control of elections leaving the south and midwest with very little imput into elections.

Erm, surely the number of people is what should determine the election, not the states. If there really are fewer people in those states, surely its fair that they have a lesser say?

Not necessarily.
Say candidate X has views that would put State Y at a disadvantage. Now if State Y has very few people in it, then State Y wouldn't have much of a say in the election.

The electoral college helps prevent this from happening.

 

[mike1921]

No it doesn't. State Y still has very little say. And even without the EC, the people in state Y will vote against it and they'll still have a somewhat similar effect than they would if the EC is still in place.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

Question! Semi-related to what Doug said, how do states figure into direct (non-electoral college) voting anyway? Wouldn't it come down to each person's vote counting?

I'm against the electoral college. It makes no sense at all.

I'll explain this as best as I can remember...

With Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Collage_(United_States)