ME: Speculation on origin of the Reapers

[Theron Julius]

They probably originated roughly similar to the geth. This kind of thing happens all the time in science fiction.

Ancient civilization needs cheap work force. Ancient civilization creates machine race to serve them. Machines slowly grow more and more intelligent. Machines gain sentience. Sentient machines get pissed at the civilization for enslaving them. Galactic war occurs usually with machines as victor. Machines begin to believe that organic life is inferior and only causes trouble. Machines proceed to cause mass galactic extinction.

This is where Reapers take a different path than the other sentient machine races. Most machines would be fine eradicating all organic life, but Reapers instead like to harvest them every so often a species gains sentience and begins to span the galaxy. This is probably why they were so much more interesting than the machines in The Matrix, for example.

 

[WafflesToo]

I love discussions like this for some reason ^_^

I would have to disagree that the Reapers were an accident, my gut feeling tells me they were very purposely created to survive something normally unsurvivable via the process shown in ME2. Maybe they intended to return to thier previous form afterwards and went insane before that could happen, maybe they didn't. That motivation is lost to history it seems since it looks like even the Reapers don't remember it.

Evidence in the game suggests that they predate the Protheans by a great deal ("They were not the first", also the shot fired that killed one of them and scarred that one planet was probably from the civilisation previous to the Protheans or about 100k years ago). The arguement that they predate the current universe was based solely on the brief contact with Sovern on Virmire, the only evidence and testimony offered. Likely flawed, but you have to admit pretty grand in scale. As to surviving the big crunch, well my guess is all they'd have to do is maintain position outside of the projected event horizon (if I understand the mechanics correctly, which I'd be the first to admit are more than a little shakey). One of their continuing motivations may be similar to bears; hoarding enough energy to hibernate through each event until the birth of the next. Who knows how long this could have been going on for, if they've survived through multiple universe cycles then... just wow, boggles the mind doesn't it?

As to thier goals and desires, Legion offered a clue to me when he said, "We seek to better ourselves." Procreation is normally a very strong motivation for all life, and if you already consider yourself to be perfect then adding to your numbers may be one of the few outlets left for improvement.

Maintaining thier control on the universe (the fleet shown may be only a small part of the whole, they may be simply the fleet that happens to be tormenting our galaxy) would be another. The Protheans look like the first civilisation that have been able to challenge that rule, though dead they are fighting in proxy through the current civilisation (and Cdr Shepard in particular). I give them most of the credit because if not for thier dying efforts the fight would've been over two or three years ago; they gave us the means to resist (the council has done a poor job of taking advantage of that gift I might add, lol).

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Third off, don't you people have anything better to do than speculate stuff about Mass Effect based stuff?

...says the guy posting on a gaming forum.

 

[TheNumber1Zero]

Third off, don't you people have anything better to do than speculate stuff about Mass Effect based stuff?

...says the guy posting on a gaming forum.

I just click on whatever pops up in the Latest threads. it was also more along the lines of wondering why all these different people keep popping out theories about different things.

 

[WafflesToo]

Third off, don't you people have anything better to do than speculate stuff about Mass Effect based stuff?

...says the guy posting on a gaming forum.

I just click on whatever pops up in the Latest threads. it was also more along the lines of wondering why all these different people keep popping out theories about different things.

Eh, why not mostly. Way I figure it is that at least a few of us also write fiction or dev on this project or that. Even if the speculation is wrong you never know what it may unexpectedly inspire from someone else.

I'm not sore about it, wonder why others are? Heck, I kinda felt the same way when Halo:ODST was released.

 

[The Heik]

***Going to keep it as spoiler free as possible for ME2 players, but no guarentees. Read at your own risk please.***


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***seriously, if you haven't played ME2 and don't want anything spoiled at all, go away***


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***Stop reading! Last warning!***


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So I finished ME2 a few days ago, and it got me to thinking a bit more on the motivations of the Reapers and a few things that Sovern said in ME on Virmire ("We predate time, blah blah blah"). Doesn't seem possible, unless... Well, we learned a bit on thier reproductive cycle anyway.

Picture an ancient galctic civilisation of a dying universe, nearing the end of entropy and approaching the "Big Crunch". To preserve themselves through it, they make the Reapers and evacuate to the darkness to wait out the next big bang. Sometime during the intervening millenia the hive intellect goes nucking futs and decides that the form they're now in is the pinnacle of evolution, nothing is above them, everything is beneath them. Deciding to share, they create the mass relay network, checking in from time-to-time, and assimilate when they find anything worth thier interest, for millenium. If they predate the current universe, then Sovern's statement about being there at the beginning and such is absolute truth as far as we would see it anyway.

...sure glad the Protheans threw a monkey wrench in the works during the last cycle.

I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

 

[TheNumber1Zero]

Third off, don't you people have anything better to do than speculate stuff about Mass Effect based stuff?

...says the guy posting on a gaming forum.

I just click on whatever pops up in the Latest threads. it was also more along the lines of wondering why all these different people keep popping out theories about different things.

Eh, why not mostly. Way I figure it is that at least a few of us also write fiction or dev on this project or that. Even if the speculation is wrong you never know what it may unexpectedly inspire from someone else.

I'm not sore about it, wonder why others are? Heck, I kinda felt the same way when Halo:ODST was released.

(Best I could figure out from your post)

I'm not upset at these theories, not in the slightest. I just tend to wonder things, and the reasoning behind spending time thinking of these things so carefully joined the list of things I wonder.

 

[WafflesToo]

[I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Hadn't considered that.

Spoiler

Another thought to chew on, after all we don't know what it is that they need to eat. It's obvious from a few conversations here and there that Bioware is at least leaning towards (if not outright stated) recognition of a 'spirit' or some kind of force that resides inside of, but apart from the physical matter making up a sentient being. So procreation may not be thier ONLY motivation for thier actions.

 

[The Heik]

[I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Hadn't considered that.

Spoiler

Another thought to chew on, after all we don't know what it is that they need to eat. It's obvious from a few conversations here and there that Bioware is at least leaning towards (if not outright stated) recognition of a 'spirit' or some kind of force that resides inside of, but apart from the physical matter making up a sentient being. So procreation may not be their ONLY motivation for their actions.

Actually

Spoiler

I think it may be the source of all their reasons. They need to feed, and they fear ever dying out, so they warp some members of their indoctrinated species to help repopulate the galaxy then prepare them for harvesting. Death is a surprisingly powerful fear, so it may now be what's driving them. While they may have had other reasons beforehand, being left alone in the darkness of space would drive even a computer mad

BTW all these spoiler tags are getting silly, no?

 

[WafflesToo]

BTW all these spoiler tags are getting silly, no?

LOL, why yes, yes they are.

Anyway, I'd be more inclined to agree if it weren't for the evidence presented at the end of ME2. While they don't seem to suffer the ill effects of aging they do need to replenish thier numbers (at least two of them have perished in just recent times, there have likely been others) so procreation remains on the table, though it may not be thier primary motivation.

I still like the "act like bears" theory, and it does fit with your arguement nicely.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Third off, don't you people have anything better to do than speculate stuff about Mass Effect based stuff?

...says the guy posting on a gaming forum.

I just click on whatever pops up in the Latest threads. it was also more along the lines of wondering why all these different people keep popping out theories about different things.

Because they're curious I guess.

 

[RadioActiveChimp]

sounds like you're on the right track to me

 

[Doug]

Picture an ancient galctic civilisation of a dying universe, nearing the end of entropy and approaching the "Big Crunch". To preserve themselves through it, they make the Reapers and evacuate to the darkness to wait out the next big bang. Sometime during the intervening millenia the hive intellect goes nucking futs and decides that the form they're now in is the pinnacle of evolution, nothing is above them, everything is beneath them. Deciding to share, they create the mass relay network, checking in from time-to-time, and assimilate when they find anything worth thier interest, for millenium. If they predate the current universe, then Sovereign's statement about being there at the beginning and such is absolute truth as far as we would see it anyway.

...sure glad the Protheans threw a monkey wrench in the works during the last cycle.

Possible. Certainly fits the evidence of what we know about them too date. But I can't picture the species who became the first reapers doing so volunteerally. After all, who'd want to get glooped into a paste and used as a building material. Even if it does give you a 'voice' in the new collective consciousness of a Reaper.

My version of their origin is that in the early days of the Galaxy, their was a species who developed this technology, and a small group thought it was a good idea to make the Reapers - the Cerberus of this ancient species. The new Reapers where assimbled from..."encouraged volunteers" (i.e. slaves and captives) until a fleet of such creatures where ready. In the resultant war between the creations, their creators, and the ones who opposed the Reaper creation, the Reapers won and began the cycle as a way of controlling organic civilizations to protect themselves long term.

This would explain what happened to that dead Reaper you get the IFF from; i.e. Those who opposed the Reapers had a gun big enough to break a Reaper to pieces, and the missed shots caused the great rift on that planet TIM mentioned. In this version, the Reapers are either lying about existing 'before time' or dislustional.

 

[Nomanslander]

It's Veger!!....0o

 

[Doug]

I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Why do you think that?

Its pretty obvious the Reapers use our 'genetic material' to create the material they are made from. As for what they 'eat', surely they just need energy? Plenty of stars to provide that...

Anywho, the Reapers see the process of creating a Reaper as 'Ascension', as Harbinger repeatedly calls it that. They view themselves as either Gods or the next/final stage of evolution.

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

 

[WafflesToo]

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

Well, they did say that the ME universe will continue after the conclusion of the current story arc. Next villains perhaps?

This would explain what happened to that dead Reaper you get the IFF from; i.e. Those who opposed the Reapers had a gun big enough to break a Reaper to pieces, and the missed shots caused the great rift on that planet TIM mentioned. In this version, the Reapers are either lying about existing 'before time' or dislustional.

Could be, but in my mind it puts the birth of the Reapers too recently in time (that battle was fought "only" about 100k years ago, by best guestimates). Assuming Sovern wasn't talking out his own exhaust port there have been at a minimum a dozen assimilation events (depending on galaxy wide evolution would be a span of 600k - 1.2M years if not more). They do seem to have it down to a science (based on conversations with Vigil on Ilos) which suggests that it has happened more than twice in the history of the current galaxy. I think that the Illusive man is correct about that specific battle; that supergun was made as a final act of either defiance or desperation in the final moments of that lost civilization. Way I picture it, the first shot caught the Reapers a bit off guard (killing the one) and the thousand kilometer long ditch was created by a second shot as the rest of the fleet ducked behind the planet. But now I'm into near pure speculation into those events.

 

[Doug]

(Editted)

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

Well, they did say that the ME universe will continue after the conclusion of the current story arc. Next villains perhaps?

Possibly, possibly. But if you defeat the Reapers at the end of ME3, why would they continue?

This would explain what happened to that dead Reaper you get the IFF from; i.e. Those who opposed the Reapers had a gun big enough to break a Reaper to pieces, and the missed shots caused the great rift on that planet TIM mentioned. In this version, the Reapers are either lying about existing 'before time' or dislustional.

Could be, but in my mind it puts the birth of the Reapers too recently in time (that battle was fought "only" about 100k years ago, by best guestimates). Assuming Sovern wasn't talking out his own exhaust port there have been at a minimum a dozen assimilation events (depending on galaxy wide evolution would be a span of 600k - 1.2M years if not more). They do seem to have it down to a science (based on conversations with Vigil on Ilos) which suggests that it has happened more than twice in the history of the current galaxy. I think that the Illusive man is correct about that specific battle; that supergun was made as a final act of either defiance or desperation in the final moments of that lost civilization. Way I picture it, the first shot caught the Reapers a bit off guard (killing the one) and the thousand kilometer long ditch was created by a second shot as the rest of the fleet ducked behind the planet. But now I'm into near pure speculation into those events.

Oh? I could have sworn it was 37 million years ago, according to TIM - "This is a relic of a battle from when mammals where taking their first steps on Earth".

 

[WafflesToo]

Is that what he said? Guess I missed that. 37M years is quite a long time, even in geologic terms... if the planet has an atmosphere at all or is in any way active I would think that erosion would've destroyed all evidence in that time. Think of how much has changed on Earth in that time (breaking up of Pangea, an ice age, etc).

Now I'm curious, I'll do a bit of research and have a visit at that planet and look at it again.

 

[ben117]

i think the reapers are alot like organic sentients since they have the ability to self repair themselves. They might be consisted of milions of nanites like the way humans are made of cells (a bit like the replicators in stargate). The reapers are not perfect since the believe they are perfection which works out to be one of ther weakneses. MJybe the nanites evolved similarly like organics.

 

[Doug]

Is that what he said? Guess I missed that. 37M years is quite a long time, even in geologic terms... if the planet has an atmosphere at all or is in any way active I would think that erosion would've destroyed all evidence in that time. Think of how much has changed on Earth in that time (breaking up of Pangea, an ice age, etc).

Now I'm curious, I'll do a bit of research and have a visit at that planet and look at it again.

I can't remember where the 37 million year number came from now, but he definitely said something about it being a relic from a battle when mammals where taking their first steps or something - definitely in the millions of years.