ME: Speculation on origin of the Reapers

[G1eet]

Maybe the Reaper's creators discovered red matter.

***Going to keep it as spoiler free as possible for ME2 players, but no guarentees. Read at your own risk please.***

One would assume a single glance at the thread title on the sidebar would warrant an aversion to it by those who haven't finished either ME1 or ME2 yet. But kudos for the safety redundancy.

Eh, why not mostly. Way I figure it is that at least a few of us also write fiction or dev on this project or that. Even if the speculation is wrong you never know what it may unexpectedly inspire from someone else.

True. After a brainstorming session with one of my fellow Mass Effect Xbox buddies, I debated on whether I should drop a line to a Bioware dev hotspot and see if my idea makes it into ME3.

ME2 has also given me an insatiable hunger for all things canon. Shame there are only a few published novels- and that's where fan fiction come in.

 

[The Heik]

I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Why do you think that?

Its pretty obvious the Reapers use our 'genetic material' to create the material they are made from. As for what they 'eat', surely they just need energy? Plenty of stars to provide that...

Anywho, the Reapers see the process of creating a Reaper as 'Ascension', as Harbinger repeatedly calls it that. They view themselves as either Gods or the next/final stage of evolution.

Sorry wrong choice of words on my part. What you say is more on what I was going for

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

I would doubt this,

Spoiler

as first any race that powerful wouldn't go with the story, and might become the Reapers next resource even if they were in and able to do it. Also there are trillions of stars and more in our galaxy alone, and what about the ones beyond the Omega Relay? No one can reach them without the Reaper IFF, which until ME2 was completely unavailable to anyone except the Collectors and the Reapers. It'd take WAY too long

 

[WafflesToo]

Is that what he said? Guess I missed that. 37M years is quite a long time, even in geologic terms... if the planet has an atmosphere at all or is in any way active I would think that erosion would've destroyed all evidence in that time. Think of how much has changed on Earth in that time (breaking up of Pangea, an ice age, etc).

Now I'm curious, I'll do a bit of research and have a visit at that planet and look at it again.

I can't remember where the 37 million year number came from now, but he definitely said something about it being a relic from a battle when mammals where taking their first steps or something - definitely in the millions of years.

I think our own history only dates back about 10k years (written history that is). The Protheans were wiped out 50k years ago, and it is cannon that they were at least observing us before that so figure, what, 50 - 60k years ago? There were definately sapient humans on earth at the time) and the Reapers at the very least checked in on the galaxy 50k before that happened (which is where my assumption of 100k years came from, I was assuming that particular battle predated the Protheans by one generation).

Lets see, according to a quick internet search mammals came into existance an estimated 220M to 256M years ago... BUT primates about 65 - 85M years ago. Hominidae branch begins 15M years ago. Looking at it, fossil records of smaller events still exist so it's entirely possible that it was 37M years ago. I was making a poor assumption and am forced to recant my previous statement. :$

 

[Doug]

Is that what he said? Guess I missed that. 37M years is quite a long time, even in geologic terms... if the planet has an atmosphere at all or is in any way active I would think that erosion would've destroyed all evidence in that time. Think of how much has changed on Earth in that time (breaking up of Pangea, an ice age, etc).

Now I'm curious, I'll do a bit of research and have a visit at that planet and look at it again.

I can't remember where the 37 million year number came from now, but he definitely said something about it being a relic from a battle when mammals where taking their first steps or something - definitely in the millions of years.

I think our own history only dates back about 10k years (written history that is). The Protheans were wiped out 50k years ago, and it is cannon that they were at least observing us before that so figure, what, 50 - 60k years ago? There were definately sapient humans on earth at the time) and the Reapers at the very least checked in on the galaxy 50k before that happened (which is where my assumption of 100k years came from, I was assuming that particular battle predated the Protheans by one generation).

Lets see, according to a quick internet search mammals came into existance an estimated 220M to 256M years ago... BUT primates about 65 - 85M years ago. Hominidae branch begins 15M years ago. Looking at it, fossil records of smaller events still exist so it's entirely possible that it was 37M years ago. I was making a poor assumption and am forced to recant my previous statement. :$

No worries mate.

Spoiler

There where sapient humans on Earth the last time the Reapers were around, but the Reapers don't seem to target not space-faring species - perhaps they see species which haven't reached the stars yet to have not been tested enough to see who are worthy of joining "Club Reaper"

 

[Nargleblarg]

Today in school I was debating not only how the reapers were created but why they want to destroy anything....my conclusion I have no f***ing idea.

 

[WafflesToo]

No worries mate.

Spoiler

There where sapient humans on Earth the last time the Reapers were around, but the Reapers don't seem to target not space-faring species - perhaps they see species which haven't reached the stars yet to have not been tested enough to see who are worthy of joining "Club Reaper"

Of course not, if I worried about public opinion every time I was wrong I'd never say anything at all.

So, after mulling it over a Wendy burger and a lemonade, I'm forced once again to disagree with cannon (assuming 37M years is correct of course) and here's why:

If we assume the Reapers come up empty-handed 4 times out of 5 then at 37M years there have been a minimum of 148 galactic civilizations that have come and gone since that battle took place. Here's where my difficulty comes in; TIM states that not only they located the target, but also the weapon that fired the shot and they are now studying it. Which suggests that they are also dismantling parts of it. TIM and his team are brilliant mind you, but I find it a bit of a stretch that it would have sat unmolested through 148 different galactic administrations (of course I also find it hard to beleive that the Reapers wouldn't obliterate it down to its componant atoms after the fight... but maybe they're just that arrogant)

Anyway, that's my original reasoning behind assuming the battle was fresher than that. Of course, if cannon states it, thats what happened. /shrug

 

[Doug]

No worries mate.

Spoiler

There where sapient humans on Earth the last time the Reapers were around, but the Reapers don't seem to target not space-faring species - perhaps they see species which haven't reached the stars yet to have not been tested enough to see who are worthy of joining "Club Reaper"

Of course not, if I worried about public opinion every time I was wrong I'd never say anything at all.

So, after mulling it over a Wendy burger and a lemonade, I'm forced once again to disagree with cannon (assuming 37M years is correct of course) and here's why:

If we assume the Reapers come up empty-handed 4 times out of 5 then at 37M years there have been a minimum of 148 galactic civilizations that have come and gone since that battle took place. Here's where my difficulty comes in; TIM states that not only they located the target, but also the weapon that fired the shot and they are now studying it. Which suggests that they are also dismantling parts of it. TIM and his team are brilliant mind you, but I find it a bit of a stretch that it would have sat unmolested through 148 different galactic administrations (of course I also find it hard to beleive that the Reapers wouldn't obliterate it down to its componant atoms after the fight... but maybe they're just that arrogant)

Anyway, that's my original reasoning behind assuming the battle was fresher than that. Of course, if cannon states it, thats what happened. /shrug

They didn't say they where studying it, they said the weapon was long defunct. Plus, it was a Mass Accelerator weapon, not particularly interesting, given all the weapons of ME 2 are mass accelerators. The council races could build weapons to achieve the same effect, but a) they don't believe the reapers exist and so have no motivation, b) something that big would be hard to aim, and c) its likely that it'd have to be build on world, as it'd be too huge for a ship.

As for the Reaper, who's to say people haven't found it before? Remember, even the dead reaper was indocrating the science team - "Even a dead god can dream" one of the researchers said in a log. Hence, its likely that any team sent to look for the reaper would either not find it or get indocrated.

 

[Shoes]

I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Why do you think that?

Its pretty obvious the Reapers use our 'genetic material' to create the material they are made from. As for what they 'eat', surely they just need energy? Plenty of stars to provide that...

Anywho, the Reapers see the process of creating a Reaper as 'Ascension', as Harbinger repeatedly calls it that. They view themselves as either Gods or the next/final stage of evolution.

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

FUCKING BRILLIANT

 

[Doug]

I think its more fun to think of groan-worthy, but very likely reasons.

Like, the reapers harvest all organic life in the universe every 50,000 years because utilizing element zero causes a galactic equivalent of global warming (dark energy build-up) and the effects of which are already manifesting simply because of the rather short delay in harvest. Since the only way to counter dark energy buildup (global warming) is to completely cease the use of element zero (fossil fuels), and no race would ever agree to that, as their entire society is built entirely around element zero, the reapers are skipping diplomacy in favor of just annihilating all life. Then the "reproduction" bit is simply a way of making sure no civilization is ever completely left behind. Making each reaper is monument. Likely the name "nazeera" is the name of the race that "sovereign" was constructed from.

Hmm, possible, possible. I'd be annoyed if BioWare did shoehorn in this environmental link, but its entirely plausible.

 

[Doug]

I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Why do you think that?

Its pretty obvious the Reapers use our 'genetic material' to create the material they are made from. As for what they 'eat', surely they just need energy? Plenty of stars to provide that...

Anywho, the Reapers see the process of creating a Reaper as 'Ascension', as Harbinger repeatedly calls it that. They view themselves as either Gods or the next/final stage of evolution.

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

FUCKING BRILLIANT

Thank you, thank you. I believe I read about a similar scenario when I looked up some other book series.

Spoiler

I can't remember the title of the series, but basically, their was a race of dark matter aliens who found stars harmful to their existance, and where artifically aging the stars to 'terraform the universe' more to their liking. If this is the case in Mass Effect, its more likely as a weapon against the Reapers like I said.

 

[Doug]

I would say the reason for their continuous life exterminations is, aside from their ridiculous superiority complex

Spoiler

is that they need our life force to survive. Remember the vats at the end of ME2? They were creating a new Reaper. I think that they do these intermittent sweeps to replenish their energy stock

Why do you think that?

Its pretty obvious the Reapers use our 'genetic material' to create the material they are made from. As for what they 'eat', surely they just need energy? Plenty of stars to provide that...

Anywho, the Reapers see the process of creating a Reaper as 'Ascension', as Harbinger repeatedly calls it that. They view themselves as either Gods or the next/final stage of evolution.

I've just had a thought though...

Spoiler: Thoughts on the Dark Energy comments ingame

So, the Quarians have discovered Dark Energy is causing a star to die young, right? What if... someone is trying to defeat the Reapers by a war of attrition? Destroy all the stars in the milky way and the Reapers loss their energy source AND their source of genetic material for reproduction.

Such an enemy would have to be made of dark matter/energy themselves to avoid being really affected by the loss of the stars.

FUCKING BRILLIANT

Thank you, thank you. I believe I read about a similar scenario when I looked up some other book series.

Spoiler

I can't remember the title of the series, but basically, their was a race of dark matter aliens who found stars harmful to their existance, and where artifically aging the stars to 'terraform the universe' more to their liking. If this is the case in Mass Effect, its more likely as a weapon against the Reapers like I said.

I half remember that as well, now that you mention it.

Which is utterly fucking disturbing as I'm so averse to reading sci-fi novels I still have yet to read ender's game.

Never read Enders game myself And I didn't said I'd read this series - I'd heard about it somewhere (the EscapePod podcast, I think) and looked it up on wikipedia for a summary.

I haven't read alot of scifi, but I do enjoy the sci-fi short stories on EscapePod, some of the Warhammer 40k books (specifically the Guants Ghosts series), and read the Mass Effect books.

Which is kinda ironic given I prefer sci-fi to fantasty heh - Battlestar Galactica FTW.

 

[Shoes]

I had wondered about the whole star dying early thing, It felt like it carried more weight then what was hinted when Tali mentioned it. I couldn't help thinking it would lead to something larger in Me2 maybe it will in Me3

 

[Crowghast]

Probably the spawn of an ancient race.

I myself entertain the idea that they were spontaneously generated out of dark space, and so, having no purpose, decide to just fuck with everything else.

I also like the idea that all the Mass Effect universe is microscopic, and is having tests run on it by scientists studying miniature galactic development and adding in hazards every now and then to toy with their creations. Hell, the Reapers might've been something the intern proposed to kill time in-between typing for hours about nothing and drinking coffee to force themselves awake.

 

[Lonan]

First off, too many Mass Effect threads.
Second off, how would they of put themselves into the Reapers without ending themselves?
Third off, don't you people have anything better to do than speculate stuff about Mass Effect based stuff?
Fourth off, If they were so close to Extinction, how would they of had time to make the Reapers?

I'm eager to know why you think speculation of a video game is such a bad thing...

Didn't say it was bad, just wondered why they didn't something else.

Why don't you do something besides telling us you're opinion? I think that's a good question.

 

[Lonan]

I think its more fun to think of groan-worthy, but very likely reasons.

Like, the reapers harvest all organic life in the universe every 50,000 years because utilizing element zero causes a galactic equivalent of global warming (dark energy build-up) and the effects of which are already manifesting simply because of the rather short delay in harvest. Since the only way to counter dark energy buildup (global warming) is to completely cease the use of element zero (fossil fuels), and no race would ever agree to that, as their entire society is built entirely around element zero, the reapers are skipping diplomacy in favor of just annihilating all life. Then the "reproduction" bit is simply a way of making sure no civilization is ever completely left behind. Making each reaper is monument. Likely the name "nazeera" is the name of the race that "sovereign" was constructed from.

Hmm, possible, possible. I'd be annoyed if BioWare did shoehorn in this environmental link, but its entirely plausible.

It could be, but energy use is almost entirely absent from Mass Effect dialogue. On the other hand "we're using all this ancient technology to run our entire civilisation (coal, or in this case mass relay's) and have NO idea what the consequences are." That would definitely fit the environmental theme. On the other hand, no one has said ANYTHING about the relay's being dangerous or any energy use at all being dangerous.

I can understand how it would annoy you, but there's nothing wrong with an environmental message here and there. I'm sure it would be very subtle anyway.

 

[Greeboz]

I remember something about EDI saying that Reapers take the form of what was used to create them(Out of speculation but it's the best we've got) so I'm assuming that there are more kinds of Reaper than the Mega Fish Squid Head. Perhaps there is some sort of synthetic lord that was the first 'Old Machine' and was programmed to spend it's eternity creating an army of these things so it began it's slow process of collecting the Fish Squid race of the Milky Way about a million trillion years ago and made the the giant mother fuckers we have now.

This is just all of my cluttered ideas at the moment. Give me time and another 2 playthroughs to make more sense of it.

 

[Lonan]

Soviergn said that Reapers are the pinnacle of organic evolution. I think they are effectively organic life that melded with machines to outlast other life. They then retreated into the darkness as other life evolved, and would then come back to take the DNA from the organic life they harvest, and put put on the tissue of the species they harvest.

I effectively equate the Reapers to old men taking the organs of the young so that they can continue to exist. But, if they were to use the organic tissue of the new species they harvest, they would become just like it. So they store their intellectual data in machines they build, and live in low energy hibernation for 50,000 years until they awaken to replace their dying organs. It's effectively the ultimate survival strategy.

If you kill everything except yourself, you die as well. All organic life needs to eat other organic life or it will perish. It's a constant struggle, but if one becomes truly dominant, it could destroy things to the point where it would take too long for organic life to re-evolve. Which is why the Reapers destroy it at the height of it's power, so that they can continue to exist. Or it could be so that the dominant species doesn't wipe everything else out.

*edit*
HOLY CRAP, I'VE JUST CONSIDERED, WHAT IF THE ILLUSIVE MAN WANTS TO TURN HUMANS INTO THE NEXT REAPERS????!!!!!!

It would make sense when he first came out the things he said were dismissed as "survivalist rhetoric created by an illusive man." What if he wants humans to become the next true survivors, the next Reapers? Maybe that's why he really wanted to save the Collector ship.

Also, Cerberus started a long time ago, and the Illusive Man is still alive and has synthetic implants. Maybe he wants us to integrate with machines to outlast everything! To become "the pinnacle of evolution!" That would give us the huge egos the Reapers have, we would be right on our way to becoming just like them.

It's also important to remember that when Shepard said that the Reapers are "just machines" Soveirgn didn't really have a response except "you're going down." He had a response to everything except that, but he didn't have one to being just a machine which can be destroyed.

Also, the definition of synthetic is "the result of extensive research by scientists to improve upon naturally occurring animal and plant fibers." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fiber)

 

[Lonan]

I think this may be the closest thing to the Reapers in the present day:
http://www.ted.com/talks/craig_venter_is_on_the_verge_of_creating_synthetic_life.html