They wouldn't know many worlds would develop life until part of the cycle was already through all The Reapers were in Dark Space, and one vanguard ship probably doesn't have the means to go around and drop all those.Syzygy23 said:
ME3 End: Do you agree with the Reapers?
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It's not even the fatalism, it's that the Star Child is the living definition of an unreliable source of exposition. The only source we have for this hypothetical truism that all roads lead to robot apocalypse is the leader of the robot apocalypse.poiumty said:
If, say, at the end of Die Hard, John McClane burst in on Hans, and Hans outlined three doors that John could choose to walk through in order to foil his plan, I'm not sure that John's immediate response would be to pick a door.
It's just all very strange. The primary antagonist vomits up some last minute exposition to justify the choice of three different endings, two of which seem highly suspect on the face, and all of which require some extraordinary logical calisthenics to make even a basic level of sense. And the only piece of evidence we have to support any of it being true is the word of the primary antagonist itself.
You mean like that last time all the countries went to war using weapons thousands of times more powerful than anything they had ever seen before and it totally killed everything forever?SajuukKhar said:
I remember that.
Only it didn't actually kill everything.
EDIT regarding probability: Assuming the odds of all life ending go to 100% as time goes to infinity, what do the odds of the Reapers ****ing up go to?
Oh, that's right. [http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1366/1775330-shepard_large.jpg]
Then just plant devices in EVERY star system that has the possibility of supporting intelligent life. There aren't that many, and they've had MILLIONS of years to do it.SajuukKhar said:
Sovereign was the only cool Reaper, he's the only one who actually wasn't a Chaotic Stupid spaceship that was fueled by pure retard.
Anyone who thinks the Reapers are right probably hasn't actually -played- Mass Effect at all, or was sleeping their way through it.
Star Child: "Synthetics will inevitably kill all organics, so I will use some synthetics to kill some of you so you don't make synthetics that will kill ALL of you."
Shepard: "So you and the Reapers are synthetics, but your actions are to protect the existence of organics... doesn't that go against what you just said?"
Star Child: "... I am such an idiot."
Shepard: "So you and the Reapers are synthetics, but your actions are to protect the existence of organics... doesn't that go against what you just said?"
Star Child: "... I am such an idiot."
The instinct to survive would override any other emotions, to the point that in order to enforce a ceasefire people have been known to kill their own kind.SajuukKhar said:
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Over a long enough time frame two species would cease to exist, making a war between them impossible.
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Your wording(the use of "fault") implies war is inherently bad. Don't ever say war is inherently bad because it isn't.
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Probability is an interesting thing to talk about, the Geth can kill, but it is not inevitable.
Using your marble analogy: If the chance of drawing a red marble is 50% and you draw a thousand blue marbles in a row, the next draw still has only a 50% chance of being red. A million draws later? 50%. 10^10000000 times later? 50%. While it would be likely, probably and nearly certain that it a couple million draws you will get a red it is NEVER inevitable.
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I would like to hear the explanation behind your claim that he and his brother will inevitably try to kill each other over an extended time frame.
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In some ways you are correct that all people suffer from mental illness, but from the point of view of medicine and psychology you are wrong. Mental illness in that regard is when a person exhibits behavior outside an accepted norm. For instance: while everyone can display some sociopathic behaviors in some circumstances only a few people who show these behaviors frequently(or always) are actually sociopaths.
Humans have a history of constant warfare and being fractured because we evolved as creatures who live in packs, however improved education, ever increasing globalization, and improving methods of communication are changing us. An example is the fact that in many first world countries birth rates are dropping because women are choosing to have careers instead of kids. Procreation is the second most basic instinct behind self preservation and millions of people are just turning that instinct off.
Sunshine and rainbows? No. Togetherness? Yes, like I said humans are pack animals.
You know, I can buy the Reapers' reasons for wiping out life every 50,000 years. They use organics to make new Reapers, so they don't want all organics wiping out or they too will presumably, eventually, die. They're acting out of self-preservation based on machine logic. Forget all this stuff about whether war is inevitable, empirical data suggests that it is, the Reapers don't care about what 'might' happen, so they activate their 50,000 year failsafe to make sure they can continue. I don't think I 'agree' with them because I'm not a machine but I can understand.
The Reapers probably came to the conclusion that all organics deserved to die when one of them decided to tear down 5 years and hundreds of hours of storytelling with a shitty, nonsensical ending just so they could sell more DLC. If that's their motivation, then sign me up to the Husk club.
The Reapers probably came to the conclusion that all organics deserved to die when one of them decided to tear down 5 years and hundreds of hours of storytelling with a shitty, nonsensical ending just so they could sell more DLC. If that's their motivation, then sign me up to the Husk club.
But the thing is, that isn't their motive according to ME3's ending. That motive would have at least sufficed. It would have sucked, because we've been hearing all along that the Reapers have motives that are inscrutable to any mere organic, but at least it would have made sense.GuerrillaClock said:
Technically that IS part of their canon motivation.PrinceOfShapeir said:
Thier need for resources and the inability to tell exactly when a robot uprising may occur, because while inevitable does not mean it would happen within the 50,000 years or so per cycle the Reapers need to come out to get resources, would mean they WOULD have to kill races off just to fuel themselves in a self preservation war.
It is unexpressed but is pretty much a requirement.
Again your missing the point of long term probability.Unsilenced said:
Also yes the Reapers chance of losing eventually was 100%, I never denied that.
See, I have two problems with their theory. In both of the known cycles the organics dealt with the Synthetics. The Protheans destroyed their synthetics, thus negating the need for the Reapers. The Geth could be bargained with or destroyed depending on player choice in the current cycle. Even if this was only because of the Reaper threat the Geth were never a real problem to anyone except the Quarians. If they ever got too uppity the Turians could have blown up them from orbit, the Asari could have launched them INTO orbit, and the Salarians could have disabled them...from orbit!
I... personally understood what the Catalyst was trying to prevent as being some sort of singularity (as defined by Ray Kurzweil). Unfortunately, the only singularity the Reapers could see was our long-term self-destruction at the hands of our own creation. For reasons that are incredibly poorly explained in the game, they simply didn't foresee anything like Synthesis - which would amount to a positive singularity.
Yes, human nature does tend to have us design things to kill ourselves or other people (we are a rather aggressive bunch, when you think about it), but we also have plenty examples of artistry and a very acute sense of what needs to be preserved - which is life. It's always felt, to me, that Mass Effect's universe was a sort of cradle where the two scenarios would come into being at the same time: machines to kill and machines to heal, help or even care for someone else. If you push it as far as what EDI becomes, then you could argue she's a machine made to love, as genuinely as any other organic.
It's an interesting premise and I'm glad Synthesis was one of our options, but it was very poorly handled, overall. I'd have redesigned the Synthesis ending to include some sort of time ellipsis - the green beam carrying data to dormant Reaper tech acting as storage devices, which the survivors of the conflict would then have been forced to decrypt. At the end of it all, maybe they come up with some sort of way to factory-produce "growing machines" or something, or basically just a new breed of synthetics that behaves entirely like organics do - right down to conception or death.
Of course, that would negate Joker and EDI's happy ending, but I'd take that over Space Magic suddenly making it so the robot's got a functional uterus.
Yes, human nature does tend to have us design things to kill ourselves or other people (we are a rather aggressive bunch, when you think about it), but we also have plenty examples of artistry and a very acute sense of what needs to be preserved - which is life. It's always felt, to me, that Mass Effect's universe was a sort of cradle where the two scenarios would come into being at the same time: machines to kill and machines to heal, help or even care for someone else. If you push it as far as what EDI becomes, then you could argue she's a machine made to love, as genuinely as any other organic.
It's an interesting premise and I'm glad Synthesis was one of our options, but it was very poorly handled, overall. I'd have redesigned the Synthesis ending to include some sort of time ellipsis - the green beam carrying data to dormant Reaper tech acting as storage devices, which the survivors of the conflict would then have been forced to decrypt. At the end of it all, maybe they come up with some sort of way to factory-produce "growing machines" or something, or basically just a new breed of synthetics that behaves entirely like organics do - right down to conception or death.
Of course, that would negate Joker and EDI's happy ending, but I'd take that over Space Magic suddenly making it so the robot's got a functional uterus.
No. Its an absurd leap of logic based on speculation and couldn't realistically be based on any precedence, it's also a fucking stupid way of dealing with this "Problem".
The reapers are delusional-paranoid idiots when you accept this motivation as true. Them not having a stated motivation was better on all counts.
The reapers are delusional-paranoid idiots when you accept this motivation as true. Them not having a stated motivation was better on all counts.
IF it was true that synthetics and organics could never cooperate...then quite possibly yes. As awful as killing trillions now is, its better then no1 else living ever.
But......its not true. Indeed the geth are FAR more tolerant, forgiving, and willing to cooperate then ANY of the organic races.
Instead, the reapers DO represent order vs chaos...but with absolute order comes stagnation. Perhaps, given enough time, we would do something that would kill us all. or maybe we would create something that would help every1 live peacefully with infinite resources. Perhaps we would simple spread across many galaxies. The reapers dont know any better then we do, they are simply extremely...well conservative. They know the past, what works and has happened in all the cycles up to now, and they are comfortable with that, so do their utmost to prevent anything new, any unexpected advancements.
But......its not true. Indeed the geth are FAR more tolerant, forgiving, and willing to cooperate then ANY of the organic races.
Instead, the reapers DO represent order vs chaos...but with absolute order comes stagnation. Perhaps, given enough time, we would do something that would kill us all. or maybe we would create something that would help every1 live peacefully with infinite resources. Perhaps we would simple spread across many galaxies. The reapers dont know any better then we do, they are simply extremely...well conservative. They know the past, what works and has happened in all the cycles up to now, and they are comfortable with that, so do their utmost to prevent anything new, any unexpected advancements.
OP: ending's reasoning is BS because saga shows us that it is organics that want machinocide, not the other way around.
point in case: geth want peace -quarians attack them.
both Geth and EDI state that fighting organics just because machines are "better" doesnt have a point.
Even the Heretics point was an answer to Sovereign's question: " do you want to be uplifted?" yup, why not. the question wasnt "do you want the power to destroy every organic?".
point in case: geth want peace -quarians attack them.
both Geth and EDI state that fighting organics just because machines are "better" doesnt have a point.
Even the Heretics point was an answer to Sovereign's question: " do you want to be uplifted?" yup, why not. the question wasnt "do you want the power to destroy every organic?".