ME3 ending standing up against bioware.

[Merrick_HLC]

Well what makes an ending invalid are stupid plotholes and silly deus machina bullshit.

...What?

Are we just making up rules, all of the sudden? An ending is what it is, if the developers forgot to make an ending, like literally ran out of money at the last minute and all of the sudden your screen just cuts to black in the middle of a fight, then yeah. They would not have an ending.

However, opinions =/= facts, meaning that the ending to Mass Effect 3 IS A FUCKING ENDING AND OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE THIS. FUCK.

[HEADING=1]WHY DOES THE VIDEO-GAME COMMUNITY HAVE TO STOOP TO SUCH INTELLECTUAL LOWS? WHY CANNOT WE APPROACH THIS MEDIUM WITH THE SAME MATURITY AS WE APPROACH LITERATURE OR FILM?[/HEADING]

But video games are NOT Literature OR film.

Literature is generally done by one or 2 writers, a single vision throughout the entire work, and novels that have additional much smaller installments after the book itself are extremely rare.

Films are, again, most of the time seen as the vision of a sole director or scriptwriter
And seldom ever have "Short film" followups (I honestly know of no examples of that)


video games are an INTERACTIVE medium, where the fans/buyers are EXPECTED to go along with and, in some way, influence and alter the outcome of the product.

They also often have smaller additional things released after the original product adding to it.

The "film/literature' comparison is not going to work because videogames, especially video games that inherently ask the player to alter the story with their actions, are INTERACTIVE media.

Film & Literature are not.

 

[Agente L]

Wait, I don't have right to complain because I DIDN'T MADE IT/MADE ONE BETTER?

That's completely wrong in so many levels. I don't even know where to start

 

[Fappy]

When I buy a video game I am buying a product that has been developed and published by large teams across multiple companies. It is marketed and sold to me as a consumer product, as such I am allowed to share my the issues I encounter with the product and inform those around me, as well as the company(s) who sold it to me. Game developers hire artists to contribute to the project and, in my opinion, video games can be considered a form of art. They are not however sold as art and consumers should not treat them as art when voicing their issues regarding it (when discussing it as a consumer product). There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise. There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

You can look at this situation as people asking an author to change his story if you want. Though, in this industry it is far more complicated than that. In the end the companies want as much feedback as they can get to maximize profits in the future.

Also, its important to remember: the ME franchise was built on the premise of player choice and importance. This notion was betrayed in the end and doesn't deliver what was promised. Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

You can ***** and moan about glitches and interface issues, lag and performance drops and no one will bat an eye. But when you complain about the creative aspect of it, non fanboys see it as whiny and immature, self entitlement to the extreme. Not hard to figure out

The problem here is that the narrative is the gameplay. It's like getting to castle 8-4 in Super Mario Bros. and having the game do the final level for you.

 

[Yopaz]

Uhm, you're basically saying that we have no right to judge something we didn't make. I agree that people are complaining too much about Mass Effect 3 or games in general, but seriously you say we don't have the right to judge if we like it or not. If we weren't supposed to judge then all games would be perfect because the creator of the game said it was perfect and we're simply not getting it.

 

[Merrick_HLC]

Well what makes an ending invalid are stupid plotholes and silly deus machina bullshit.

...What?

Are we just making up rules, all of the sudden? An ending is what it is, if the developers forgot to make an ending, like literally ran out of money at the last minute and all of the sudden your screen just cuts to black in the middle of a fight, then yeah. They would not have an ending.

However, opinions =/= facts, meaning that the ending to Mass Effect 3 IS A FUCKING ENDING AND OH MY GOD I CANNOT BELIEVE I HAVE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE THIS. FUCK.

[HEADING=1]WHY DOES THE VIDEO-GAME COMMUNITY HAVE TO STOOP TO SUCH INTELLECTUAL LOWS? WHY CANNOT WE APPROACH THIS MEDIUM WITH THE SAME MATURITY AS WE APPROACH LITERATURE OR FILM?[/HEADING]

But video games are NOT Literature OR film.

Literature is generally done by one or 2 writers, a single vision throughout the entire work, and novels that have additional much smaller installments after the book itself are extremely rare.

Films are, again, most of the time seen as the vision of a sole director or scriptwriter
And seldom ever have "Short film" followups (I honestly know of no examples of that)


video games are an INTERACTIVE medium, where the fans/buyers are EXPECTED to go along with and, in some way, influence and alter the outcome of the product.

They also often have smaller additional things released after the original product adding to it.

The "film/literature' comparison is not going to work because videogames, especially video games that inherently ask the player to alter the story with their actions, are INTERACTIVE media.

Film & Literature are not.

Perhaps, but even in the medium of video games, there's a set limit to the interactivity. You're not so much altering the story as you are choosing which preset path to take the story along. It's the basic equivalent of one of those old "choose your own adventure" books.

A "Choose-your-own-adventure" book that everyone can know and agree will have more 'choices' released later.

 

[Yopaz]

Uhm, you're basically saying that we have no right to judge something we didn't make. I agree that people are complaining too much about Mass Effect 3 or games in general, but seriously you say we don't have the right to judge if we like it or not. If we weren't supposed to judge then all games would be perfect because the creator of the game said it was perfect and we're simply not getting it.

It's not the "right to judge" that's the issue, it's the "right to demand a remake". It's the perceived "right" for a fanbase to not only judge the ending as poor, but to state the deficiency as a given fact and express the belief that it should thus be altered.

In that case I misunderstood and agree fully.

 

[4173]

Wouldn't Bioware actually be showing their commitment to children by refusing to change the ending? That way, people would continue donating to the protest thingy.

 

[Fappy]

When I buy a video game I am buying a product that has been developed and published by large teams across multiple companies. It is marketed and sold to me as a consumer product, as such I am allowed to share my the issues I encounter with the product and inform those around me, as well as the company(s) who sold it to me. Game developers hire artists to contribute to the project and, in my opinion, video games can be considered a form of art. They are not however sold as art and consumers should not treat them as art when voicing their issues regarding it (when discussing it as a consumer product). There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise. There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

You can look at this situation as people asking an author to change his story if you want. Though, in this industry it is far more complicated than that. In the end the companies want as much feedback as they can get to maximize profits in the future.

Also, its important to remember: the ME franchise was built on the premise of player choice and importance. This notion was betrayed in the end and doesn't deliver what was promised. Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

You can ***** and moan about glitches and interface issues, lag and performance drops and no one will bat an eye. But when you complain about the creative aspect of it, non fanboys see it as whiny and immature, self entitlement to the extreme. Not hard to figure out

The problem here is that the narrative is the gameplay. It's like getting to castle 8-4 in Super Mario Bros. and having the game do the final level for you.

I fail to see how that analogy makes any sense. Was there a bug where the text became invisible or something of that nature? That question is rhetorical

Seems like a perfectly simple comparison to me. If the primary focus of gameplay for the franchise is how you guide the narrative (albeit alongside the combat) and your ability to guide the narrative is effectively extinguished once you reach the finale its fair to say the actual gameplay ends prematurely. Its fine to have a lengthy cutscene to round off a game, but this franchise is built on the premise that you guide such narrative developments. Choosing between red, green or blue and getting the exact same result with a different filter over it betrays the player's expectations.

Simply put: the narrative and the gameplay of ME3 are one and the same. If you can complain about gameplay falling short there is no reason you can't complain about the narrative.

 

[Adultism]

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3

Now I'll say up front I agree with everyone who thinks Bioware shouldn't have to change the ending. It's their work, they own it, and they have every right to say fuck you if you don't like it. Moreover, I'm not sure what make people think that if the unsatisfying ending was the one they went with after two years (maybe more) of development, why they believe that demanding they do better will produce anything that improves on it.

But the thing I dislike here, and with everyone else complaining about people demanding the ending be changed, is when you say people have no right to demand they change it. Last I checked free speech is still a right, and it's simply absurd to say that people have no right to demand they change the ending because they didn't like it. People have every right to demand anything they want from Bioware and to say anything they want about their game. Just as Bioware has the right to not listen.

I meant you have no right to MAKE them change the ending with stupid tactics like fundraisers. Not that you can't state your opinion.

 

[Fappy]

When I buy a video game I am buying a product that has been developed and published by large teams across multiple companies. It is marketed and sold to me as a consumer product, as such I am allowed to share my the issues I encounter with the product and inform those around me, as well as the company(s) who sold it to me. Game developers hire artists to contribute to the project and, in my opinion, video games can be considered a form of art. They are not however sold as art and consumers should not treat them as art when voicing their issues regarding it (when discussing it as a consumer product). There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise. There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

You can look at this situation as people asking an author to change his story if you want. Though, in this industry it is far more complicated than that. In the end the companies want as much feedback as they can get to maximize profits in the future.

Also, its important to remember: the ME franchise was built on the premise of player choice and importance. This notion was betrayed in the end and doesn't deliver what was promised. Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

You can ***** and moan about glitches and interface issues, lag and performance drops and no one will bat an eye. But when you complain about the creative aspect of it, non fanboys see it as whiny and immature, self entitlement to the extreme. Not hard to figure out

The problem here is that the narrative is the gameplay. It's like getting to castle 8-4 in Super Mario Bros. and having the game do the final level for you.

I fail to see how that analogy makes any sense. Was there a bug where the text became invisible or something of that nature? That question is rhetorical

Seems like a perfectly simple comparison to me. If the primary focus of gameplay for the franchise is how you guide the narrative (albeit alongside the combat) and your ability to guide the narrative is effectively extinguished once you reach the finale its fair to say the actual gameplay ends prematurely. Its fine to have a lengthy cutscene to round off a game, but this franchise is built on the premise that you guide such narrative developments. Choosing between red, green or blue and getting the exact same result with a different filter over it betrays the player's expectations.

Simply put: the narrative and the gameplay of ME3 are one and the same. If you can complain about gameplay falling short there is no reason you can't complain about the narrative.

You dont sound very sure of yourself and theres a very good reason why: You're totally wrong. By your logic, shepherd should be able to retire at the start of the game and open up an apocalypse bagel shop, because, yknow, saving the world and shit is hard. Why cant I drive the narrative towards that end? Is that not a "gameplay" flaw?

The fact is, the story is not gameplay period. The "choose your own adventure" appeal is, at the end of the day, a gimmick used to advance the story(s) that the DEV TEAM has in mind. If they want to curb your choices, thats their prerogative. I dont see you complaining about all the auto dialogue in the game

Oh, believe me, I have complained about the auto-dialogue in the game. More than I care to admit. You may say the "choose your own adventure" is a gimmick, but a lot of people liked it and thought it worked rather well. The fact of the matter is, despite having a few hiccups here and there (as you pointed out with auto-dialogue), the "choose your own" adventure aspect is pretty consistent throughout the franchise. Also, the character of Commander Shepard is more or less consistent. You may be Paragon one moment, Renegade the next or suddenly decide you want to drop women and bang Cortez, but at the end of the day everyone's Shepard wants to defeat the Reapers and will not let anything stand in their way. Why at the very end does Shepard simply kneel down to the the Reaper god and give up? Why don't we have the option to tell it to go to hell? That's where our expectations are thrown out the window.

 

[Lithan]

Woooow. I just realized something.

Creative work

That you did not make.

You have no right...

I suggest you go watch the Monty Python Michelangelo's Last Supper skit.

 

[RatRace123]

Agreed, they don't have to change it. If they feel they don't owe their fans anything then they don't have to do anything. They're well within their rights to stand by their works and defend them, and we as fans, will have to accept that.

On the flip side, pissed off fans are well within their rights to say that they think the ending sucks. And they're within their rights to ask Bioware if they could change it. Bioware doesn't have to and then the fans will have to get over it. And if the fans don't like that, then they have a right not to buy anymore Bioware/EA products.

It's a tough issue, but placating the fans still goes a long way in this industry. I think Bioware will act on fan complaints, if only to earn back some good standing.