ME3 Homosexuality Chapter (meant to be Ironic?)

[Ian Caronia]

NOTE: I found this in another thread and instead of derailing the thread I decided to make a new one devoted to this topic.

Whatever they make, will be 'streamlined to be even more accessible to the fans and when you press a button something awesome will happen! Twice!'.

Screw Bioware, they're cutting to many corners in the name of a quicker buck. And the corners they cut are all from the RPG-part of the equation.

Whatever it is it'll be super gay.

I mean that literally. They are forcing the topic so hard. Good lord, I'm as pro sexuality of any natural nature as you can get without becoming a point singularity for it, but even I'm thinking "Alright guys...that's a little bit forced."

I imagine their next game will be like heavy rain but the plot twist will be that everyone is gay.

I wouldn't mind it if it was canon, but the hardcore retconning is just really jarring.

Again, in no way anti-gay, just think Bioware is going about it very tacky and ruining an oppurtunity.

Found this in the deep currents of teh interwebz - gave me the lolsies ^_^

--

Meanwhile, at Bioware..

:trollface

--

Not to sound like a downer...but isn't this exactly what theultimateend was talking about? I mean, you know, not to derail the thread, just want to respond to this.

It's very good to see them put so much work into this and to be so conscious about it too, and for those planning on having a homosexual turn in ME3 I'm sure this is very interesting...
...But why? Even for a gay Shepard playthrough it's...out of place. And what's with the "accidentally discovers" bit? Why does a straight gamer's playthrough have to grind to a halt to turn into a "defend gay preferences" story for a whole chapter? Why does a gay gamer's for that matter?

Look, in Persona 4 Kanji's homosexuality had to do with the story. The Kanji arc is part of the plot because the plot involved what society thinks of people, and how people think of themselves. It was literally about the inner lies we tell ourselves and the rejection of our true selves. It was actually very intimately woven into the main story.

What does this have to do with the Reapers? What's this have to do with...anything?

As a great friend (one who knows more about homosexuality in story telling than I do) told me in response:
"I think it's a dumb idea.
Why make a whole section that the character has to play though? Making your character homosexual should be a choice in the game that you can seek out- like a side quest or just make it that you can woo any of the partner choices male or female.
You shouldn't have to be forced into a section to 'test your reactions to make your character gay/what they think of another character being gay'
That's dumb.
Just make the game. And then make it so that no matter what gender you are, you can chase after anyone.

Its not 'revolutionary' or 'insipring' to make it a requirement to answer if you're gay or not or what you think of another character being gay. It's insulting and degrading. And it will most likely cause a lot of people to have longwinded homophobic discussions."

Basically, making an entire section devoted to homosexuality is pointless and kind of insulting. If you want to make homosexuality natural in your story, don't put it under a spotlight and force everyone to stare at it. Set it amongst everything else in the story. Homophobia has never been an issue in ME before...so why now that the universe is under attack would anyone suddenly grimace at two dudes or two women?

It's blatant pandering, which is what set everyone off about the Garrus and Tali romances to begin with. However at least those were side quests. Optional. They affected the story, yes, but the story didn't stop for the romance to ensue. It was part of it.
_More importantly, this is just another ploy from Bioware to make people talk about the game in a pseudo "revolutionary" light and say "Bioware is changing things in the gaming industry". Sorry everyone, but it's not right.
Shepard being gay or having a gay couple in the cast should be natural. Devoting an entire chapter to it is as awkward and ridiculous as those classic anime titles with insultingly flamboyant gay characters.
Pulling the game over to stop the plot and take a break at the "what do you think of homosexuality" rest stop is just as stupid.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Supposedly this was meant to be ironic

Oh for the love of...doesn't anyone recognise [HEADING=2]IRONY[/HEADING] when they see it?

Hepler is obviously poking fun at the tidalwave of homophobia the announcement that ME3 will contain optional s/s romances produced.

I mean, honestly. Read betweent the lines?

THANK YOU! Finally, someone else fucking gets it.

Thank you, good sir, thank you for joining me on the logic train. I swear, this Bioware hate is getting way to out of hand when people take a post like that seriously.

Wait, so this is meant to be ironic? ...Where's the joke? Where's the fact showing that it's a joke?
Doesn't anyone recognize [HEADING=2]TEXT ON THE INTERNET DOESN'T CARRY YOUR VOICE AND MANNERISMS[/HEADING] when they decide to trype "ironically"? Or, in this case, sarcastically?

Besides, with everything Bioware has been retconning and changing, does this really seem out-of-place for them? Considering half the people who read it take it seriously, or rather the majority, I don't think so.

 

[Irridium]

I thought the reason that Shepard didn't have homosexual choices was because he, you know, wasn't homosexual. Especially since there have been NO HINTS that he was gay at all. Not through body language, voice inflection(how he talked to people he might have a crush on or something like that, and NOT the stereotypical flamboyant crap seen in all other forms of media), or anything else really.

Then again with Shepard, all he does is stand still with his eyes fixated in one place, and has no emotion in his voice. Male Shepard at least.

Then again, Bioware seems to be rather fond of ret-conning as of late.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

Hmmmm... Personally i dont think it would have been any better/worse if they left it out.
but seeing as they're putting it in, im glad they're trying to make an effort, rather than just tacking it on. Actually have another mini story arc about it the same as the other relationships is probably the best thing to do.

Also, can my FemShep be gay? that Bioware post seemed to only mention male shep

EDIT: although you're right, its blatant fan service for Tali/Garrus(/maybe Thane aswell) fans im imagining...but i dont think it really matters much in the long run

 

[Nimcha]

What does this have to do with the Reapers? What's this have to do with...anything?

I only quoted this part because it seems to be your main problem. You can ask that question about almost anything that happens in the game. This is simply character development. In a universe where racism is still very much an issue (among humans and aliens) it is not a stretch to tackle homophobia as well.

I think you're overreacting. You might as well use the exact same arguments for the whole romance idea as well. "Why put that in the game, it has nothing to do with the Reapers!"

 

[Kahunaburger]

Mass Effect has always been about tackling issues. Those issues can include stuff like the sacrifices that have to be made in wartime, a war criminal's remorse, the system a criminal was the product of, a character with a terminal illness repairing his relationship with his son, or a character getting closure for the death of her lover. In other words, they run the gamut. A coming-out story fits in there pretty well, actually.

I thought the reason that Shepard didn't have homosexual choices was because he, you know, wasn't homosexual. Especially since there have been NO HINTS that he was gay at all. Not through body language, voice inflection(how he talked to people he might have a crush on or something like that, and NOT the stereotypical flamboyant crap seen in all other forms of media), or anything else really.

Then again with Shepard, all he does is stand still with his eyes fixated in one place, and has no emotion in his voice. Male Shepard at least.

Then again, Bioware seems to be rather fond of ret-conning as of late.

I dunno, FemShep comes off as pretty butch. But really, there have been a lot of closeted gay people in history, many of whom have been very good at coming off as straight. I'm not sure why people are all "give me more choice" on 99% of character background elements but "no, give me less choice!" when it comes to sexuality.

 

[Lyri]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

Say that again.

What bothers me is we're more concerned that you can't skull fuck another guy in your bunk than the story or other more personal moments in gaming.
Remember Baldurs Gate 2?
Jahira?
***** annoyed the crap out of me, damn right I sent her home.

Same goes for some modern day RPGS, I want to develop relationships with my companions and not swap genetic fluids with them.
I don't like Tali I'd like to dump her out of an airlock, sadly she remains a hermit in my engine room.
If we're going to develop love, why not the opposite end too?

 

[mireko]

Hmmmm... Personally i dont think it would have been any better/worse if they left it out.
but seeing as they're putting it in, im glad they're trying to make an effort, rather than just tacking it on. Actually have another mini story arc about it the same as the other relationships is probably the best thing to do.

Also, can my FemShep be gay? that Bioware post seemed to only mention male shep

Happy to confirm #ME3 supports wider options for love interests incl. same-sex for m&f chars, reactive to how you interact w/them in-game.

Link

That's the director of the game, so yes, looks like it.

I'm pleased with this news at least, since that's the only achievement I didn't get in Mass Effect 2 [small](because fuck 'em, they can't make my character straight now)[/small].

 

[IndianaJonny]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

Oh God, this! Spot on Asuka!

Why is it that the only impact sexual orientation has in the more rencent RPGS is entirely romance related? What about side quests that actually challenge your sexuality and how your character relates to it beyond "Oh, I find He/She/Both attractive".

 

[Nimcha]

OK, gay people in games. Here's the thing about me and homosexuality: I don't care. It does not bother me or matter to me or even have anything to do with me. I do not want to face the issue because I have too much shit to face on a day to day basis anyway. Bioware seems to be pulling a LOLSODEEP load of shit, the kind that normally fills a game with gore, female nudity, and language but this time fills it with unusual (as in, not often included into games) options. The problem is that this isn't really working, it feels like it's being shoved right down my throat and I really, really don't like it. It would be fine if I could avoid that part of the game altogether, but oh no, I must see something about homosexuality anyway.

Yeah man, you're so right. You should be able to just avoid situations you don't want to face in the game. I mean, I hate politics, I don't want anything to do with it. Yet Bioware forces me to meet with that stupid Council every time I want to play ME1! I don't want politics shoved in my face, I just want to shoot stuff and kill Reapers!

 

[Vonnis]

The fact this seems to be such a hot issue still amazes me. I will say however that I read the thread topic as "homosexuality meter", which admittedly piqued my interest. I was imagining a third bar along the paragon/renegade ones indicating how gay Shepard's actions in the game are. Maybe work it into his appearance as well, like how in ME2 you keep the scars if you go renegade, in ME3 you could get accessories like a fabulous little handbag or something if the gay meter is filled up enough.

 

[Ian Caronia]

What does this have to do with the Reapers? What's this have to do with...anything?

I only quoted this part because it seems to be your main problem. You can ask that question about almost anything that happens in the game. This is simply character development. In a universe where racism is still very much an issue (among humans and aliens) it is not a stretch to tackle homophobia as well.

I think you're overreacting. You might as well use the exact same arguments for the whole romance idea as well. "Why put that in the game, it has nothing to do with the Reapers!"

I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and reply, but I think you missed my main issue. It's not just that it has nothing to do with the plot, it's that they apparently plan on devoting an entire chapter to this. As I stated, the romances in the prior games were side quests, optional bits you could add to the plot should you play it that way.
_This is literally telling us that no matter how we play the game, we will diverge from the plot (Reapers killing all life and we gotta stop them) to deal with the possible issue of homophobia? Why? Why a whole chapter? Why not just give the option to have a romance that deals with such a thing?

Worse yet, what's with the pseudo "scandalous" idea of having Shepard find out two of his crew mates are gay? What does that have to do with anything?

It just makes the addition of homosexuality in ME all the more awkward when it shouldn't be. It should be natural. It should feel genuine and real, not like a special episode of Mass Effect where Shepard discusses the issues certain homosexuals have to go through.

Make it optional and use it to fuel the drama of the romance. Don't interrupt the story with a pro-gay rights message that has nothing to do with the plot.

Also: Don't be fooled by this. As I said, this is clearly just a marketing ploy to make Bioware seem "edgy" and "revolutionary". In the end, it's more insulting than a stereotypical gay character. They're abusing the fact that gay gamers would love the choice to be gay in ME to make themselves look better and sell more copies. Then again, that's how I see it.

 

[Nimcha]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

Oh God, this! Spot on Asuka!

Why is it that the only impact sexual orientation has in the more rencent RPGS is entirely romance related. What about side quests that actually challenge your sexuality and how your character relates to it beyond "Oh, I find He/She/Both attractive".

Isn't this what is going to happen? The Bioware quote states that even as a straight Shepard you will have to deal with it in some way, including homophobic crew members. I would think such issues could create tension in the crew that is not very helpful and that Shepard needs to deal with.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

Say that again.

What bothers me is we're more concerned that you can't skull fuck another guy in your bunk than the story or other more personal moments in gaming.
Remember Baldurs Gate 2?
Jahira?
***** annoyed the crap out of me, damn right I sent her home.

Same goes for some modern day RPGS, I want to develop relationships with my companions and not swap genetic fluids with them.
I don't like Tali I'd like to dump her out of an airlock, sadly she remains a hermit in my engine room.
If we're going to develop love, why not the opposite end too?

This, I think is a good counterargument, but it's more a counterargument against Mass Effect having love interests at all. Especially with the whole fraternization/unfortunate implications angle. I honestly think it would be more effective in terms of story telling to have Shepard have a boy/girl back home he/she thinks fondly of, space-skypes, and spends time with during shore leave. But if bioware is dead set on having love interests on the crew, there's no particular reason to limit themselves to straight ones.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

Hmmmm... Personally i dont think it would have been any better/worse if they left it out.
but seeing as they're putting it in, im glad they're trying to make an effort, rather than just tacking it on. Actually have another mini story arc about it the same as the other relationships is probably the best thing to do.

Also, can my FemShep be gay? that Bioware post seemed to only mention male shep

Happy to confirm #ME3 supports wider options for love interests incl. same-sex for m&f chars, reactive to how you interact w/them in-game.

Link

That's the director of the game, so yes, looks like it.

I'm pleased with this news at least, since that's the only achievement I didn't get in Mass Effect 2 [small](because fuck 'em, they can't make my character straight now)[/small].

Nice! that was 50% of the reason i went with Liara.. that and because i didnt really like Ashley or Kaiden

 

[Zantos]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

Can't wait for Mass Effect 4, where Shepard appears on Jeremy Kyle after getting Ashley pregnant then leaving her for Garrus. Now that would be good use of the dialogue wheel.

 

[Nimcha]

What does this have to do with the Reapers? What's this have to do with...anything?

I only quoted this part because it seems to be your main problem. You can ask that question about almost anything that happens in the game. This is simply character development. In a universe where racism is still very much an issue (among humans and aliens) it is not a stretch to tackle homophobia as well.

I think you're overreacting. You might as well use the exact same arguments for the whole romance idea as well. "Why put that in the game, it has nothing to do with the Reapers!"

I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and reply, but I think you missed my main issue. It's not just that it has nothing to do with the plot, it's that they apparently plan on devoting an entire chapter to this. As I stated, the romances in the prior games were side quests, optional bits you could add to the plot should you play it that way.
_This is literally telling us that no matter how we play the game, we will diverge from the plot (Reapers killing all life and we gotta stop them) to deal with the possible issue of homophobia? Why? Why a whole chapter? Why not just give the option to have a romance that deals with such a thing?

Worse yet, what's with the pseudo "scandalous" idea of having Shepard find out two of his crew mates are gay? What does that have to do with anything?

It just makes the addition of homosexuality in ME all the more awkward when it shouldn't be. It should be natural. It should feel genuine and real, not like a special episode of Mass Effect where Shepard discusses the issues certain homosexuals have to go through.

Make it optional and use it to fuel the drama of the romance. Don't interrupt the story with a pro-gay rights message that has nothing to do with the plot.

Again: so many things happen in the game that have nothing to do with the overarching plot. (For example, Grunt's loyalty mission.) Not an argument.

Also, to me it just seems like you are the trying to claim the moral high ground by saying 'it should be natural'. While I completely agree with that regarding the real word, it just still is a problem. Both in our world and the ME universe.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and reply, but I think you missed my main issue. It's not just that it has nothing to do with the plot, it's that they apparently plan on devoting an entire chapter to this. As I stated, the romances in the prior games were side quests, optional bits you could add to the plot should you play it that way.
_This is literally telling us that no matter how we play the game, we will diverge from the plot (Reapers killing all life and we gotta stop them) to deal with the possible issue of homophobia? Why? Why a whole chapter? Why not just give the option to have a romance that deals with such a thing?

Well, ME2 devotes entire chapters to giving various characters closure in some form or another. So it's honestly not to strange to have chapters that involve Shepard engaging in leadership by settling differences between crew-members. Although it all boils down to how skillfully it's handled.

 

[IndianaJonny]

I miss when games were about gameplay. Not who's shagging who.

Oh God, this! Spot on Asuka!

Why is it that the only impact sexual orientation has in the more rencent RPGS is entirely romance related. What about side quests that actually challenge your sexuality and how your character relates to it beyond "Oh, I find He/She/Both attractive".

Isn't this what is going to happen? The Bioware quote states that even as a straight Shepard you will have to deal with it in some way, including homophobic crew members. I would think such issues could create tension in the crew that is not very helpful and that Shepard needs to deal with.

Yes. Yes it does.

For some reason I looked at and read 'ROMANCE'. Glad somebody's awake