ME3 Homosexuality Chapter (meant to be Ironic?)

[ZeroMachine]

... Wait, am I the only one that picked up on the incredible amount of tongue-in-cheek vibe in that Bioware post?

 

[badgersprite]

Way to blow it out of proportion. The entire game of ME2 revolved around helping characters deal with their personal problems, and now having a tiny portion of the game where one guy has his sexuality brought up and admits he likes dudes and giving you the option to talk about it is too much?

Chances are it's going to be one mission where a guy in your squad runs into someone from his past. He admits that the guy was a former lover. Chances are, that's it. I don't see how that's any different from Miranda finding her sister, Samara taking on her daughter, or Tali trying to save her father. When has Mass Effect ever not been about talking to characters about their pasts and their issues? We've had characters talk about being monogendered, talk about their religion, and talk about politics or any other number of things, so why is one guy opening up about the fact that he likes dudes (which you probably don't even have to talk about more than once if you choose to avoid the character on your ship) a deal breaker?

 

[FarleShadow]

Sorry kids, but I went Liara as my FemShep's first lay and Garrus as my second lay.

Since I always thought of Liara as a woman and Garrus as a man, I can only assume that my Jennifer Hale Femshep as a alien-curious. As in, who the fuck cares, I'll have sex with who I want, provided I like them!

Also, that women in ME:2 who 'fed your fish' while you were away? Always thought that was a metaphor.

That said, any 'enforced' content, in my mind, will get my disrespect, sure, being gay is a choice (In the game), but if I don't choose to be gay (In this Role.Playing.Game) I shouldn't have to listen to an overly verbose story arc about the other characters getting their gay on. Unless I chose to be gay in the story and then got an overly verbose story arc about how the other characters got their straight on.

Balance!

 

[Undead Dragon King]

*Reads Jennifer Helper's post*
*mouth works furiously, but no sound comes out*

...

What happened to the whole homosexuality thing in these games being voluntary?!

It might not be so bad if it's handled like in DA2, when Anders makes a pass at you. I decisively shut that line of thinking down. From that point on, no homosexuality was forced on me for the rest of the game from any of my party members. However, the option for flirtatious comments with male characters was still an option on the dialogue wheel. I was fine with that, but PLEASE don't make us have to go through more than that if we don't want to.

I think Ms. Helper is prejudiced in favor of homosexual characters. She shouldn't make straight Shepards suffer because of it.

That was the first time I was infuriated by a post in a very long time.

 

[Cronq]

We need to start having a separate rating/versions of games. One for gay people, and one for heterosexuals as it is very obvious that it's impossible to combine the two into a game that everyone will like. If the pinnacle of the ME3 story is going to be about the "coming out" of a character then Bioware can suck it cuz I don't want to play a game like that.

 

[Ian Caronia]

OK, gay people in games. Here's the thing about me and homosexuality: I don't care. It does not bother me or matter to me or even have anything to do with me. I do not want to face the issue because I have too much shit to face on a day to day basis anyway. Bioware seems to be pulling a LOLSODEEP load of shit, the kind that normally fills a game with gore, female nudity, and language but this time fills it with unusual (as in, not often included into games) options. The problem is that this isn't really working, it feels like it's being shoved right down my throat and I really, really don't like it. It would be fine if I could avoid that part of the game altogether, but oh no, I must see something about homosexuality anyway.

Yeah man, you're so right. You should be able to just avoid situations you don't want to face in the game. I mean, I hate politics, I don't want anything to do with it. Yet Bioware forces me to meet with that stupid Council every time I want to play ME1! I don't want politics shoved in my face, I just want to shoot stuff and kill Reapers!

To be fair, you don't deal with politics. You just yell at/get yelled at by members of the council or representatives of authority. Even Tali's trial was the bare minimum of politics.

Also, just a quick note, politics do have to do with the main story. You need whole races to stop the galactic onslaught, so of course you'll be dealing with (very watered down) inter-species politics. Where homosexuality fits into the main plot, the actual story not the side quests, the plot of stopping a living apocalypse, is anyone's guess.
_And that's what's going on. Something that has no relation to the grand scheme of things is being shoved into your face as the story takes a halt to deal with issues of homophobia. I say "takes a halt" because they say "entire chapter" not "one mission/a few convos between missions". If it was only for those who looked for it (i.e. the drama of having a homosexual romance) then there'd be no issue. It's optional so it doesn't matter if it's part of the main plot or not and can be a part if you want it to be (like with the whole love interest thing in general).
I mean, even if the plot involved homosexuality (or to be even broader: the issues of societal pressure on a personal scale ala Persona 4 or something) in some way then it'd be fine.
But it doesn't.
And it isn't.

 

[ZeroMachine]

No, seriously,

Am I the only person that can tell that the Bioware forum post is tongue-in-cheek?

Just look at it and think about all the criticism they've gotten over Dragon Age 2. They wouldn't do that, they wouldn't force a homosexual encounter on someone, AND they wouldn't have an entire section of an action/rpg scifi story based around your or your shipmate's coming out party.

You guys are actually taking this seriously? What the hell...

 

[Scabadus]

Do they really need an entire chapter of the game to be about Shepard telling off crew members who are prejudiced against homosexuality? Even if there is some reason for this, given the sides the player's been able to take in the previous racism (or, more accuratly, speciesism) arguments there would really have to be an option to say "yes, homosexuals are all wrong and evil and we should blast them out an airlock," which just wouldn't go down as well with censors as "kill all the aliens!"

I'm aware that same sex romance scenes were planned and even recorded for at least Mass Effect 1 and possibly 2 as well but then cut from the final game, but the fact is that they were cut and it's pretty much established that Shepard is hetrosexual (possible exception with FemShep and Liara notwithstanding).

And I must point out, if Shepard 'coming out' is as easy to trigger as the ME1 romances because the dev team thought it would be 'meaningful,' 'deep,' 'fun,' or anything else, it's going to annoy a hell of a lot of people. Also, my game's Tali is going to be very upset.

 

[Nimcha]

OK, gay people in games. Here's the thing about me and homosexuality: I don't care. It does not bother me or matter to me or even have anything to do with me. I do not want to face the issue because I have too much shit to face on a day to day basis anyway. Bioware seems to be pulling a LOLSODEEP load of shit, the kind that normally fills a game with gore, female nudity, and language but this time fills it with unusual (as in, not often included into games) options. The problem is that this isn't really working, it feels like it's being shoved right down my throat and I really, really don't like it. It would be fine if I could avoid that part of the game altogether, but oh no, I must see something about homosexuality anyway.

Yeah man, you're so right. You should be able to just avoid situations you don't want to face in the game. I mean, I hate politics, I don't want anything to do with it. Yet Bioware forces me to meet with that stupid Council every time I want to play ME1! I don't want politics shoved in my face, I just want to shoot stuff and kill Reapers!

To be fair, you don't deal with politics. You just yell at/get yelled at by members of the council or representatives of authority. Even Tali's trial was the bare minimum of politics.

Also, just a quick note, politics do have to do with the main story. You need whole races to stop the galactic onslaught, so of course you'll be dealing with (very watered down) inter-species politics. Where homosexuality fits into the main plot, the actual story not the side quests, the plot of stopping a living apocalypse, is anyone's guess.
_And that's what's going on. Something that has no relation to the grand scheme of things is being shoved into your face as the story takes a halt to deal with issues of homophobia. I say "takes a halt" because they say "entire chapter" not "one mission/a few convos between missions". If it was only for those who looked for it (i.e. the drama of having a homosexual romance) then there'd be no issue. It's optional so it doesn't matter if it's part of the main plot or not and can be a part if you want it to be (like with the whole love interest thing in general).
I mean, even if the plot involved homosexuality (or to be even broader: the issues of societal pressure on a personal scale ala Persona 4 or something) in some way then it'd be fine.
But it doesn't.
And it isn't.

It seems to be pretty clear that homosexuality is being used as a catalyst for some tension in the crew. That to me seems a perfectly valid story. They could've also used the racism issue, and maybe they will.

I can see we're not going to agree on this. Fine. I'll stay with my original point then: you're overreacting. The only one who's actually making a big deal out of this is you.

 

[Darthbawls77]

This just seems kinda forced and not needed. But o well I trust bioware will still make a fantastic game either way.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

What does this have to do with the Reapers? What's this have to do with...anything?

I only quoted this part because it seems to be your main problem. You can ask that question about almost anything that happens in the game. This is simply character development. In a universe where racism is still very much an issue (among humans and aliens) it is not a stretch to tackle homophobia as well.

I think you're overreacting. You might as well use the exact same arguments for the whole romance idea as well. "Why put that in the game, it has nothing to do with the Reapers!"

I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and reply, but I think you missed my main issue. It's not just that it has nothing to do with the plot, it's that they apparently plan on devoting an entire chapter to this. As I stated, the romances in the prior games were side quests, optional bits you could add to the plot should you play it that way.
_This is literally telling us that no matter how we play the game, we will diverge from the plot (Reapers killing all life and we gotta stop them) to deal with the possible issue of homophobia? Why? Why a whole chapter? Why not just give the option to have a romance that deals with such a thing?

Worse yet, what's with the pseudo "scandalous" idea of having Shepard find out two of his crew mates are gay? What does that have to do with anything?

It just makes the addition of homosexuality in ME all the more awkward when it shouldn't be. It should be natural. It should feel genuine and real, not like a special episode of Mass Effect where Shepard discusses the issues certain homosexuals have to go through.

Make it optional and use it to fuel the drama of the romance. Don't interrupt the story with a pro-gay rights message that has nothing to do with the plot.

Also: Don't be fooled by this. As I said, this is clearly just a marketing ploy to make Bioware seem "edgy" and "revolutionary". In the end, it's more insulting than a stereotypical gay character. They're abusing the fact that gay gamers would love the choice to be gay in ME to make themselves look better and sell more copies. Then again, that's how I see it.

But it does have relevance to the plot, why do you think you were doing all those loyalty misssions in ME2, to help them keep a clean psyche ridding them of distractions and internal tensions. That's what you're doing here, ensuring that any insecurities and internal tentions within the crew are dealt with so they're prepared and focused for the task at hand. That being said, I hope they make the effort to at least recognise if you've had a female relationship previous game then your sheperd is bi, not gay which just retcons the character you've built up until this point. I'm more leanient towards other characters though dependant on whether or not you were with them, for instance romance Garrus and he's straight though in a parralel universe if you didn't then he's gay, I can live with that it's a wierd form of suspension of disbelief I know, but I guess it's just the 'Sliding Doors' (because fuck the butterfly effect) philosophy.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Oh for the love of...doesn't anyone recognise [HEADING=2]IRONY[/HEADING] when they see it?

Hepler is obviously poking fun at the tidalwave of homophobia which DA2 and the announcement that ME3 will contain optional s/s romances produced.

I mean, honestly. Read between the lines?

No, seriously,

Am I the only person that can tell that the Bioware forum post is tongue-in-cheek?

Just look at it and think about all the criticism they've gotten over Dragon Age 2. They wouldn't do that, they wouldn't force a homosexual encounter on someone, AND they wouldn't have an entire section of an action/rpg scifi story based around your or your shipmate's coming out party.

You guys are actually taking this seriously? What the hell...

THANK YOU.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Oh for the love of...doesn't anyone recognise [HEADING=2]IRONY[/HEADING] when they see it?

Hepler is obviously poking fun at the tidalwave of homophobia the announcement that ME3 will contain optional s/s romances produced.

I mean, honestly. Read betweent the lines?

THANK YOU! Finally, someone else fucking gets it.

Thank you, good sir, thank you for joining me on the logic train. I swear, this Bioware hate is getting way to out of hand when people take a post like that seriously.

 

[Kahunaburger]

*Reads Jennifer Helper's post*
*mouth works furiously, but no sound comes out*

...

What happened to the whole homosexuality thing in these games being voluntary?!

It might not be so bad if it's handled like in DA2, when Anders makes a pass at you. I decisively shut that line of thinking down. From that point on, no homosexuality was forced on me for the rest of the game from any of my party members. However, the option for flirtatious comments with male characters was still an option on the dialogue wheel. I was fine with that, but PLEASE don't make us have to go through more than that if we don't want to.

I think Ms. Helper is prejudiced in favor of homosexual characters. She shouldn't make straight Shepards suffer because of it.

That was the first time I was infuriated by a post in a very long time.

Well, in real life, you have the option to make flirtatious comments to people of your sex and many people (probably some people you know) are gay.

So, in other words, some people are gay.

 

[Ian Caronia]

Mass Effect has always been about tackling issues. Those issues can include stuff like the sacrifices that have to be made in wartime, a war criminal's remorse, the system a criminal was the product of, a character with a terminal illness repairing his relationship with his son, or a character getting closure for the death of her lover. In other words, they run the gamut. A coming-out story fits in there pretty well, actually.
*snip*

No it hasn't, mate. Mass Effect 2 was all about that despite really being about the Collectors despite really being about the Reapers.

...Yeah, this is why a lot of people, including myself, say that (no matter how much we like the game, as we do) Mass Effect 2 was pretty much a filler game with the sole purpose of creating build-up for mass effect 3.
_Mass Effect 1, the game that opened up what ME was meant to be about, had all of that personal stuff as optional bits that weren't mandatory. It made the game feel natural when you chatted to a character and they finally opened up a personal side quest.

In ME2 everyone just wanted your help even if they didn't know much about you. It was a way to extend a 12-15hr game to 30hrs.

But then again the same debate is made about LOST so...

 

[Kahunaburger]

Mass Effect has always been about tackling issues. Those issues can include stuff like the sacrifices that have to be made in wartime, a war criminal's remorse, the system a criminal was the product of, a character with a terminal illness repairing his relationship with his son, or a character getting closure for the death of her lover. In other words, they run the gamut. A coming-out story fits in there pretty well, actually.
*snip*

No it hasn't, mate. Mass Effect 2 was all about that despite really being about the Collectors despite really being about the Reapers.

...Yeah, this is why a lot of people, including myself, say that (no matter how much we like the game, as we do) Mass Effect 2 was pretty much a filler game with the sole purpose of creating build-up for mass effect 3.
_Mass Effect 1, the game that opened up what ME was meant to be about, had all of that personal stuff as optional bits that weren't mandatory. It made the game feel natural when you chatted to a character and they finally opened up a personal side quest.

In ME2 everyone just wanted your help even if they didn't know much about you. It was a way to extend a 12-15hr game to 30hrs.

But then again the same debate is made about LOST so...

Okay, so you don't want a character-driven rpg. Mass Effect may not be the franchise for you then haha.

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Well, in real life, you have the option to make flirtatious comments to people of your sex and many people (probably some people you know) are gay.

So, in other words, some people are gay.

Don't lecture me. And besides, you totally missed the point. I don't care that some people are gay. I can totally appreciate BioWare catering to that crowd as well. But it shouldn't be forced down the throats of people who want nothing to do with it.