ME3: One hell of a retcon...

Recommended Videos

Lullabye

New member
Oct 23, 2008
4,425
0
0
Alucard788 said:
Lullabye said:
How do you know they weren't gay?
Maybe its just they were not flaymboyant or stereotypical. For all you know, ALL your crew could have had a crush on you.
*sigh* No they don't have to be flaymboyant or stereotypical.Thats not what I'm getting at.

However when you walk around the Citadel you don't see any men holding hands or talking close.You never meet an NPC that has a 'partner' or such that they my mention in passing....but you do see plenty of Asari snuggles...and yes they are 'aliens' but they also look like blue women...but no male/male snuggles.

What I'm trying to say here is that there is no starting point for this in the story. I'm not angry that Bio is doing this...I'm glad....but I'm confused because a fellow like myself just doesn't exist in the entire Mass Effect Universe.

As others have said I do have a bad feeling it's just going to get shoe horned in and treated as if it was always there....which is stupid. >_<
Im going to go ahead and say maybe they were not comfortable putting in homosexuality because they already got enough flak for putting in sex. The same people who protested against the sex would probably be up in arms over male lovers, but then Bio went and realized that 'hey, they're not our target audience so fuck'em' and quit being afraid of the big bad conservatives homophobes.
Even if they do act like it was always there(which i agree with you, is stupid, they should actually address the issue) it's still a plus for having it.
 

LiberalSquirrel

Social Justice Squire
Jan 3, 2010
848
0
0
Alucard788 said:
Thank you. Yes it did come to mind as I thought about how this would all go down. Perhaps if Kaidain (or whoever they make Bi (or gay) showed an interest in Shep early on he would have been arrested, and thrown off the Normandy.

Only at the end of the world when all hope is lost 'you' as male Shep, and him find the true love that they had been missing all this time...that they had to hide due to society pressures and laws.

Yea it's corny as heck but it would work. ^_^
Corny, perhaps, but it'd still be better than just hand-waving it away. The other option would be just to have it be part of the subquest, maybe having male Shep convince (insert possible bi male character here) that breaking the law is fine and what really matters is how they feel, et cetera. Still corny. But at least you wouldn't lose a teammate. Though... hm. It'd be interesting if one of the options when whoever-it-is tries to initiate something was to report them to the appropriate authorities... if you wanted to make your male Shep a bit of an ass.

...If they did it right, pulling an arrest for male homosexuality could actually get some interesting political commentary going on. Hmmm.


Lullabye said:
How do you know they weren't gay?
Maybe its just they were not flaymboyant or stereotypical. For all you know, ALL your crew could have had a crush on you.
If they had a crush on you, why wouldn't they have said something? Personally, I think it would be interesting if they did, indeed, carry a bit of a flame, but had a legitimate reason for not doing anything about it (like the OP's suggestion of outlawed male homosexuality). It'd add a bit more to the plot then a simple "guess what! These guys are going to come out of the space-closet now!"
 

Woodsey

New member
Aug 9, 2009
14,553
0
0
Canadish said:
It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.
Different writers for the different games.

OT: Its not like any character was specifically stated to be one or the other, I don't think it matters. And if you aren't going to roll a gay Shepard, it won't affect you anyway.
 

Alucard788

New member
May 1, 2011
307
0
0
CrazyJuan77 said:
This is no retcon. The fact that gay wasn't on display in the first two games doesn't mean that gay doesn't exist in that universe. It's really up to the mind of the person playing the game and how much they think about it. Honestly I'd have been fine not romancing anyone if it weren't an achievement. I played the game for the game, not to worry about what sexualities are prevalent in this fictional galaxy.

But hey, maybe some people need to have gay scenes shoved upon them to "prove" that gay exists somewhere in world the game is set in...

Its not a retcon.
Riiight so the 'sorta' strip club that was in the first part of ME, (and the club in ME2) and all the Asari bump and grind dancers was just...ya know...not there to be noticed or anything.
 

Kyman102

New member
Apr 16, 2009
202
0
0
Amusing answer: Shepard is so amazingly awesome that he/she makes ANYBODY bi-curious.
 

Silver PBall

New member
Feb 22, 2011
16
0
0
I know a lot of people who have never explicitly told me whether they were gay or straight. I imagine the same can be said for Commander Shepard. In fact, I'd think it would be heinously out of place to know anyone in the Mass Effect universe came out and said "I AM A HOMOSEXUAL" given that there has never once been a dialogue option. Maybe Kaiden has spent all of the time over the course of the 2 existing games coming to terms with his sexuality? Maybe he's spent some time experimenting, getting to know himself a little more and becoming more comfortable with being gay? I've never heard of anyone waking up and saying "Yes, please!"

It sounds like they could do this in a very human way, which would come to me as a massive shock considering that I still can't figure out whether or not Kaiden is a human with a personality or a Geth in Sheep's clothing(considering he has no personality)
 

Sejs Cube

New member
Jun 16, 2008
432
0
0
Alucard788 said:
However when you walk around the Citadel you don't see any men holding hands or talking close.You never meet an NPC that has a 'partner' or such that they my mention in passing....but you do see plenty of Asari snuggles...and yes they are 'aliens' but they also look like blue women...but no male/male snuggles.
Go back and look again. How many times do you see anybody holding hands or talking close. The only time that you see anything vaguely close (to use the term loosely) is asari strippers doing the Intended-To-Be-Sexy-But-Really-Kinda-Not dance animation. I feel you're going about this the wrong way. To go from relatively austere as far as depicting human relations to FEATURE! GAY MEN! would be counterproductive. You'd either have to go about it as FEATURE! EVERYBODY BEING ROMANTIC (everybody includes male/male relationships)! or go about it like it's not a big deal.


...but I'm confused because a fellow like myself just doesn't exist in the entire Mass Effect Universe.
Just because something hasn't been featured doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How many Inuit have been featured in Mass Effect? How many Italians? Welp, guess that means they don't exist. Midgets? Well since you never see one, guess they're not there. I guess since you only ever hear about Ashley being Christian, I guess that means there are no other religions out there either.

That logic is silly and I feel you may be overreacting.

As others have said I do have a bad feeling it's just going to get shoe horned in and treated as if it was always there....which is stupid. >_<
No, it isn't stupid, it's called knowing how to handle a narrative.
 

Alucard788

New member
May 1, 2011
307
0
0
Dr.Awsome said:
Hendel from Mass Effect Ascension is a soldier who is gay
I had to go and look up who that was int he wiki. So he was in one of the books eh. I'll admit I've never absorbed myself into all of the Mass Effect media...but this is interesting. The wiki mentions that it's 'hinted at' which is also interesting.
 

OakTable

New member
May 10, 2011
52
0
0
Why is this romance stuff so important? Shouldn't we be worrying about the gameplay, rather than this?
 

Alucard788

New member
May 1, 2011
307
0
0
OakTable said:
Why is this romance stuff so important? Shouldn't we be worrying about the gameplay, rather than this?
Oh please I'm not just singularly focusing on this...it's just what my post is about. What I'm stating is that as a 'part' of the world how will it go down. of coarse I want a solid story and good game play. However I find it interesting that they are adding something that has not been added previously.
 

Alucard788

New member
May 1, 2011
307
0
0
LiberalSquirrel said:
Alucard788 said:
Thank you. Yes it did come to mind as I thought about how this would all go down. Perhaps if Kaidain (or whoever they make Bi (or gay) showed an interest in Shep early on he would have been arrested, and thrown off the Normandy.

Only at the end of the world when all hope is lost 'you' as male Shep, and him find the true love that they had been missing all this time...that they had to hide due to society pressures and laws.

Yea it's corny as heck but it would work. ^_^
Corny, perhaps, but it'd still be better than just hand-waving it away. The other option would be just to have it be part of the subquest, maybe having male Shep convince (insert possible bi male character here) that breaking the law is fine and what really matters is how they feel, et cetera. Still corny. But at least you wouldn't lose a teammate. Though... hm. It'd be interesting if one of the options when whoever-it-is tries to initiate something was to report them to the appropriate authorities... if you wanted to make your male Shep a bit of an ass.

...If they did it right, pulling an arrest for male homosexuality could actually get some interesting political commentary going on. Hmmm.
I think so as well. Really it could be an amazing and emotional statement if the player chooses that path. A kind of dark side to the wonderful future that humanity had in Mass Effect. Only as the world falls apart and is on the brink of destruction Shepard and whoever find that one true love.



LiberalSquirrel said:
Lullabye said:
How do you know they weren't gay?
Maybe its just they were not flaymboyant or stereotypical. For all you know, ALL your crew could have had a crush on you.
If they had a crush on you, why wouldn't they have said something? Personally, I think it would be interesting if they did, indeed, carry a bit of a flame, but had a legitimate reason for not doing anything about it (like the OP's suggestion of outlawed male homosexuality). It'd add a bit more to the plot then a simple "guess what! These guys are going to come out of the space-closet now!"
I'm glad someone else sees it this way as well. To me it is a ret-con in a story sense. Also relationships have become a big part of Bioware games and writing...so it is important and relevant.
 

Timberwolf0924

New member
Sep 16, 2009
847
0
0
Alright, I'm gonan go ahead and say my mind on this one. Lesbianism isn't really placed in ME Universe "Oh but the Asari!" no.. No.. NO.. Asari are uni-gendered, thats like saying an Ameoboa is a lesiban (amobea have no gender) Kelli! no.. Kelli is a whore, if you happened to play a fem-shep then yea, you could've made her homosexual. But thats one character. Just because you have your fem-shep, then yea you can go that route. But you don't see anywhere else that two woman are explicitally doing fem/fem action. If you're a male shep and you feel like you're being left out, I'm sorry but I'm with every other guy out there who doesn't see a problem. Kedian, Thane, Grunt, Zaeed, Wrex, Jacob, Kaiden, Legion (yes he sounds like a guy to me) and most importally Garrus isn't homosexual.

Yes! They could have left Kelli out and made her only heterosexual, and I agree that is very one sided. But still, complaining that your favorite character isn't a "mans-man" is a mute point. I mean, why do they have to swing both ways, not everyone in the universe is unable to plant their feet sexually.

I'm not gay bashing, a great friend of mine came out of the closet not to long ago and we still hang out all the time. I have a lesiban couple in my family (not my immediate family, but a 2nd cousin) and they come to my families pool house all the time.

It just disturbs me that people complain about not having a homosexual love intrest when it's quite possible that Joker is gay but he's not a love intrest so.. whatever..
 

Irriduccibilli

New member
Jun 15, 2010
792
0
0
Well good for you my friend, because there WILL be gay male sex in Mass Effect 3. I believe Bioware said that themselves
 

Ian Caronia

New member
Jan 5, 2010
648
0
0
Alucard788 said:
*snip*
That would actually make sense in the context of the world of ME3. Considering what they said here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99710-BioWare-Explains-Why-Theres-No-Homosexuality-in-Mass-Effect-2 which well...it seems like to me they completely ignored the 120 pound blue alien in the room.

Why do you guys think? How should they handle this?
How they should've handled it: Make male homosexuality available or even existent from the start to not pigeon hold themselves

How they should handle it: Make male homosexuality very scarce in the game world. One, maybe two couples or just one couple and one solo gay guy at a club is all you see. Make it seem like it was part of the universe all along, but it's just in such a rarity that no one ever payed mind to it. Explain during the gay romance that the reason male homosexuality and female homosexuality (barring asari) is so rare is because of how every race views relationships in terms of genetic offspring.
_This ties into why the asari don't like "purebloods" and asari on asari romances- because they fear genetic mutations like the Ardat Yakshi and find the lack of additional race DNA to be bad (insulting?) and that it stagnates their gene pool.
_This concept that relationships need to have babies at the end is something thoroughly discussed in Mass Effect 1. It can be utilized to it's full potential to explain the lack of same gender relationships in ME up to this point (except with asari), and can bring more drama into pre-existing cross-species relationships. Relationships = babies. Cross species and homosexuality = no babies, in turn = Society at large: "Not acceptable"

Why they can't handle it: Thanks to the creators being awful ignorant retconning writers, Mass Effect 2 broke apart the idea that was unique (relationship must = babies) with how extras conversed, namely the quarian and the turian hitting it off in the bar on Illium (I think that's the name). There's also the "Fleet and...whocares" movie that's mentioned and the utter lack of mentioning this societal ideal from either Tali, Thane, or Garrus. Or anyone, really. No one mentions something so important that was clearly established in the first game. Quarians and turians are just assumed to be so understanding of a cross species relationship, despite being defined as hard-asses about everything.
_The result of the bad science and lazy retconning in Mass Effect 2 leads to the inability to clearly and understandably explain why something so fundamental (Over 60-70 hrs traveling between galaxies and not a single gay man/gay couple not involving asari? ...That's just stupid...and creepy) was never part of the universe to begin with.

How they will handle it(?): My educated guess is that Bioware's writers will either make homosexuality an on-ship/player-driven discovery only (meaning the rest of the universe will still have no sign of being gay, yet the characters are now totally fine with being gay), or they'll go overboard on trying to make homosexuality a part of ME and have numerous extras spouting off "witty" exchanges about how gay they are, trying to make us think that "lulz there were always gay people, silly". No, there wasn't. But there probably will inexplicably be en masse now.
_If they decide to take ques from Dragon Age then there'll probably be characters sexually harassing us to let us know they are in fact options for gay romances now, and when we turn them down they'll call us everything but homophobic and not like us anymore...or they'll just continue harassing us.

Between the points I just made and the beautiful example (golden one really) of how Bioware has no concept for continuity, especially in characters and it's executives' own statements, that Alucard788 pointed out, it's pretty much obvious to say that: All in all, Bioware done fucked up.

At least gay gamers can have fun now. If they manage to disregard the blatant retconning and grotesque lack of continuity, that is. Tali fans did with her health after all. Have at it! Just because Bioware doesn't know it's ass from it's elbow doesn't mean you should deprive yourself of fun. To help me through my long nights of tossing and turning, I think of Mass Effect as "just a game" instead of "this game is an experience/is a great piece of work" like I do with certain other game titles. That way I can have fun with the game instead of ranting on and on about how bad the writers at Bioware are. :D
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go romance Tali again and bite my fist when she talks about her immune system to keep me from punching the TV. Tatta! /jk