ME3: One hell of a retcon...

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WaywardHaymaker

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Aren't the homosexual characters NEW characters? Kaidan didn't swing that way before, making it to the third game isn't going to change that.

I don't know how they'll do it, and I don't really care all that much (unless they do the whole "Everyone's just bisexual" thing, that's kind of odd), but I would just have everyone do their own thing and just say, "Well, you've just never picked up a gay squadmate" or maybe "Zaeed just wasn't that into you."
 

Extragorey

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kman123 said:
No offense, but while I adore Bioware games, character development is their weakest forte. Not once do I ever care about the actual characters. Unfortunately.
I'd have agreed with that up until playing Dragon Age II - they really pulled it off well there. Flame the game all you like for the copied dungeons, but the characters are just great.
 

Nudu

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All swans I've seen are white.
Therefore, all swans are white.

...Anyone see where I'm going with this?
 

Trishbot

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One of my favorite things in Mass Effect 2 is you can try and romance Samara...

... and she REJECTS you.

Why is this important? Because she draws a line. She says no. She has affection for you, but is unwilling to go to the next level. She ends it before it can begin and outright states her views of sex and romance, saying it's not even her code that forbids it - it's all her decision. And her decision is not to do it.

That is IMPORTANT for character growth. It shows that she has her own personal standard, whether you agree with her or not, and she's not going to just drop her pants because you tell her to.

Kaiden in ME1 expresses confusion and even acts upset if Female Shepard romances both him and Liara. "I didn't realize you were a.... that you prefer other women....", he states bewilderingly. Ashley in ME1 is hyper conservative and religious (they're usually the first to shun homosexual activity).

My point being, you can play Shepard as gay as you like, but it's making every character omni-sexual is bad character development. A character should have a preference, whether it's brunettes or apple pie or Donnie Darko, about the things they like or dislike or have no interest in at all. Sexuality is a big part of what defines people, and painting everyone with a broad brush, especially at this stage of the game, dilutes them as individuals and clumps them together as mere romance stats to arbitrarily tweak without diving into the heart of why they would care, why you would care, and why both of you, either straight or gay, would "click".

And I say that as a bisexual woman, one that wished Tali was romanceable for Female Shepard. I have a male account just for her. I ended up hooking up with Garrus with my FemShep. But one of the things that works is both of them have their preferences and state their interests, whether Garrus is bragging about his success with the ladies (a few times in fact), or Tali confesses her romantic urges for a specifically MALE Shepard in a very touching, revelatory scene (that outright doesn't exist for female Shepard).

To alter the characters so every single one of them is bisexual, with no "standard" or "preference" like Samara showed so deftly, the characters become blank slates that you customize just as much as you customize your main character.

And that's problematic, for me at least. My character in Mass Effect is my character, either gay or straight or, in my case, bisexual. But she reacts to the world around her, she has to adapt to the personalities surrounding her. She can soften the rage of Jack, but she's not going to make Jack wear pink dresses and act super-feminine. She can be nice to Tali, but Tali just prefers "dashing, strong commanders". It's very odd to think that Shepard has such godly power to just alter the sexuality of everyone around her to suit her interests, making Mass Effect less a journey of dealing with the harsh circumstances you're given and more a harem fantasy that, in an odd way, taps into that old, alarmist Fox News story about how you can "have sex with anything".

Basically, I AM upset that Tali won't sleep with my FemShep. But I don't want them to change that. Her not jumping in bed with me is an essential part of who she is; it defines her preferences, interests, standards, positives, and flaws. I don't have to agree with her either; where we disagree (on sexuality or dealing with the Geth) is what makes her believable. She's a dear friend to my Shepard, a girl with whom mine has an unrequited crush (just like Samara), but like reality, I have to just deal with it, focus on the bigger picture, cope, and perhaps find love and happiness somewhere else with someone else (Liara or Garrus... hmmm...)

That's how you write a good character, and I don't oppose homosexuality in Mass Effect at all... but I am concerned about the integrity of the prior characters. Even with my interests, it would be odd and disconcerting if Tali suddenly wanted to sleep with me, if Wrex wanted me to bear his children, or if Thane decided in the last few months of his life that he actually prefers men and his loving relationship with his wife was all a mistake.

Like most fans, I'd just want consistency. I'm sure Bioware, in all their infinite wisdom and power, could have just created a new character to fill the bisexual void for men ('cause us ladies have Liara and Kelly). That's my stance, and I won't say it's correct, but it's just my opinion on character development between games. It CAN be done, but it has to be done carefully. If not? Well, it just will ring hollow. And bisexual and gay individuals deserve more than table scraps and compromises that seem insincere.
 

Alucard788

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Perhaps romancing Kaidain was just wishful thinking on my part (I can't help it...he's just so cute...or a video game character). I just never wanted my idle musings to become such an angry firestorm.

I thought that maybe folks could help me think of 'how' they were going to do it...not why or should they...but how.

I also never said I had a problem with it, anywhere, and my own confession to being a gay man has mostly fallen on deaf ears with some even accusing me of being a homophobe for just...asking about this.

It's madness.

I'm running out of replies or things to say...I'm running out of responses...I don't know what to say anymore, because for the most part, this seems to cause more anger, than it's worth talking about.

Oh and to all of you saying 'it shouldn't matter' or 'why make a big deal out of this'. Games are a fantasy right? An escape. You fellas get lots of scape with sexy females and sexy scenes, revealing outfits, and copious amounts of bare boobies. Why is it suddenly 'not so important' when it's shoe on other foot time?

I'm not accusing but...I just don't get it.

...and all I wanted to do was muse about a plot point.
 

WolfThomas

Man must have a code.
Dec 21, 2007
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It's the future and for the majority of the time everyone was part of a strict military unit that frowned upon fratnerization. I don't see why they need any excuse. Kaidan simply could say he never considered it until now when everything seems screwed up,
 

DementedSheep

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Nimcha said:
Ian Caronia said:
veloper said:
The devs are prolly going to bring him back from the dead too regardless of what you did in ME1.
Making him bi or gay then is a relatively minor point. Did Kaiden even show any indication of being straight or anything at all, if you played only the male protagonist?
Actually yes. He mentions having a crush on a girl as a kid, makes a remark on how cute Liara is, hints at his enjoyment of the strip club, and that's all in ME1. Pretty sure there's more evidence of heterosexuality, but it would only lead back to the point of
1) Anybody can choose to be gay and straight despite having a history of the other
_This, when it comes to humans at least, it correct
2) Kaiden's ME2 speech
_I won't make fun of Kaiden, and I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be gay. All I'm saying is that his speech to Male Shepard on Horizon felt...well...it felt more emotional than anything Ashley had to say, put it that way.

So yeah, Kaiden is hetero, but I guess there are ways he can be gay for 3 without it seeming totally out of left field. However the topic of the thread, the fact that homosexuality was never in ME until now and how they'll try to pull this off, is a much different matter than making a mostly straight character gay.
You know, there is something called bisexuality, maybe you should look that up...
I don't know why people always seem to forget that. The fact that someone shows interest in someone of the O/S does not mean they are straight. It just means they are not gay, they could still be bi.
 

Timzilla

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LiquidGrape said:
Timzilla said:
Thier is no lesbianism in Mass Effect 1 or 2. The "120 pounds of blue alein" You speak of is not a female. Asari (The race in question) do not have sexes. They look and sound like what we would call female, but thier not. For there to be a Female, thier must also be a Male, and by that notion, there can not be lesbianism between a human female and an assari.
That's not really how things work.


Didn't see that, You win this round.

That destroys my credibilty. Good day to you all.
 

Altorin

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it will be interesting to have more dialogue options with Kaiden as a male shepard.
 

infohippie

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mireko said:
a) A small percentage of the population is gay (granted, we don't get to know the statistics for homosexuality among alien races), and people don't exactly wear their sexuality on their sleeves.
I think this is actually quite an important point. We're told a few times in ME2 (I can't remember if it comes up during ME1) that the special thing about humans is their variability. Each of the other races is relatively homogeneous. The percentage of the human race who are gay is, what, around 3%-5%? For all the other races, this is probably far smaller. A gay Turian, for example, could easily be quite literally one in a million. Or even rarer.
 

Seanfall

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As someone who's never played a gay character. (though Thane and Garrus did tempt me as a female shep) Expect for how my Gray warden somehow romanced Zevron then had a three way with that madam at the Pearl place....I still can't figure out how that shit happened. It matters very little to me how it's pulled it off. I like that every sexual preference is being represented though. What I wanna know is how much Kaiden or ashly are gonna be kissing my ass after their little ***** fit in ME2. Where the hell was the renegade smack button there!?
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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Why do you give a fuck? Seriously, unless there is a section where you have to let Kaidan ram you from behind to stop the Reapers or something, why give a damn at all? As long as it's an optional romance that isn't rubbed in your face, I really don't see the problem...
 

ImprovizoR

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If Bioware wants to make Shepard gay or bisexual then they should have an option for sexual preference in character creation screen. My Shepard fucked Liara, Jack, Miranda and Kelly. It would be weird if all of a sudden I hear Garrus hitting on me. They fucked that up in Dragon Age 2. No matter what I did Anders and that weird elf who's name I've already forgotten kept hitting on Hawke! That's just bad game design. The game didn't keep track of Hawke's dialogue with these characters properly. And they should get rid of that stupid paragon/renegade while they're at it.
 

infohippie

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ImprovizoR said:
They fucked that up in Dragon Age 2. No matter what I did Anders and that weird elf who's name I've already forgotten kept hitting on Hawke! That's just bad game design. The game didn't keep track of Hawke's dialogue with these characters properly. And they should get rid of that stupid paragon/renegade while they're at it.
That's odd. I told both Anders and JRPG elf-boy once each that it wasn't going to happen, and they left it at that. It never came up in conversation with them again. Perhaps yours had a glitch? Were you playing on PC or 360?
 

JediMB

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ImprovizoR said:
No matter what I did Anders and that weird elf who's name I've already forgotten kept hitting on Hawke! That's just bad game design. The game didn't keep track of Hawke's dialogue with these characters properly. And they should get rid of that stupid paragon/renegade while they're at it.
Anders flirts with you exactly once in Act 1, and only if you're being friendly with him. You can avoid it entirely, but no matter how you respond he won't bring it up again unless you flirt with him later on.

Fenris doesn't flirt with you. He says something that can be construed as flirting, but then answers your response with that he didn't mean it that way.

Isabela, however, flirts with you during Act 1 (with no way to respond), and then goes on to flirt with pretty much everyone in the group at one time or another.
 

Alucard788

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However it plays out...it's going to be interesting.

Hey are either going to act like it was always there...or we'll get something *sigh* something contrived and weird. >_<

I think it's fun to imagine how it might happen.
 

Nimcha

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Trishbot said:
To alter the characters so every single one of them is bisexual, with no "standard" or "preference" like Samara showed so deftly, the characters become blank slates that you customize just as much as you customize your main character.
They never said they were going to do that, though. I highly doubt all companions are revealed to be bisexual.
 

Saviordd1

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They've been very flipy flopy with the romance news,even if it exists i dont think theyll make kaidan, who has been straighter then a sword so far, gay randomly.