ME3 Prothean DLC on disc after all

[SajuukKhar]

you bought a license, and that license only covers the base game.

[citation needed]

OT: If anyone has the relevant part of the EULA, that would be very interesting to see. Of course, I'm not convinced that a EULA could conceivably be used to restrict access to purchased content for the same reason it's legal to jailbreak an iPhone.

You can find ME3's EULA here
http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas
.
.
D. Further Restrictions. Your right to use the Software is limited to the
license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, seek to
disable, distribute, perform, publish,modify, create works from, or use the
Software or any component of it, except as expressly authorized by EA.
Unless expressly authorized by EA, you are prohibited from making a
copy of the Software available on a network where it could be used by
multiple users. You are prohibited from making the Software available
over a network where it could be downloaded by multiple users. You may
not remove or alter EA?s trademarks or logos, or legal notices included in
the Software or related assets.

Altering the data constitutes modifying and thus is against the EULA.

 

[Elamdri]

How is the DLC, anyway?

I've heard all the day-one DLC commotion, but is it actually any good?

It's not that good in my humble opinion

Spoiler

Basically, you learn that the Protheans were imperialist, social darwinian asshole. The Prothean squadmate is a dick and I want to shove him out the airlock BSG style so badly it hurts. Also, despite what people are saying, it's not "intergral" at all to the experience of the game. In fact, I think it makes it worse.

 

[Kahunaburger]

you bought a license, and that license only covers the base game.

[citation needed]

OT: If anyone has the relevant part of the EULA, that would be very interesting to see. Of course, I'm not convinced that a EULA could conceivably be used to restrict access to purchased content for the same reason it's legal to jailbreak an iPhone.

http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas
D. Further Restrictions. Your right to use the Software is limited to the
license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, seek to
disable, distribute, perform, publish,modify, create works from, or use the
Software or any component of it, except as expressly authorized by EA.
Unless expressly authorized by EA, you are prohibited from making a
copy of the Software available on a network where it could be used by
multiple users. You are prohibited from making the Software available
over a network where it could be downloaded by multiple users. You may
not remove or alter EA?s trademarks or logos, or legal notices included in
the Software or related assets.

Altering the data constitutes modifying and thus is against the EULA.

or alter

Oh noes! You've brought EA's lawyers down on us all with your reckless bolding of words!

(We'd have to see the whole EULA to know what this statement means in context. Exactly what "the licence grant above" entails is important. I have to go and sleep now, but someone else with sufficient time on their hands would be able to determine what the EULA has to say re: modding - particularly since mods of EA games aren't exactly rare.)

 

[Elamdri]

Implying that changing parameters in files you legally purchased is piracy.

That's just the thing. You didn't purchase the files you are altering. You purchased some of the files on the disc. Some of the files are not subject to that purchase and instead are the subject of a separate license.

 

[Snotnarok]

The squadmate is on the disc but the mission probably wasn't, at least that's what the download in origin would suggest.

And if what they define as piracy is true, there's a LOT of modders in trouble, I mean have you seen Skyrim mods? Editing that code and putting whatever they wanted in there! Pirates all of you!

 

[beniki]

Also it is piracy because you are gaining access to content you didn't pay for.

When you bought the game you paied for a lsience, and that lisence only covers what Bioware says it doesn, the fact that those limited animation and voice files are on the disk is irellevent to the fact the liscence you bought only covers the base game.

-You dont own the disk
-You dont own the box
-You dont own the information on the disk

Stop acting like you do.

...

I want you to read that back to yourself. Read it a few times. What you are saying is this:

I have given money to a company, and they have given me nothing in return.

They have the right to take everything back if they want to, without giving me back my money.

You cannot equate this to a running service, such as an MMO or real world resort or club, as there are no more upkeep costs after development. Bug fixes do not count as an upkeep cost, as they are developers repairing mistakes on the product they've made.

If this is the case, and this is the future of the gaming industry, then I think I'll stop playing games altogether. It hardly seems worth it to pay for something I can't own.

Please, stop supporting bad business practises. Companies have their own best interests at heart, and if you allow them to effectively rob you, they will. It doesn't make them bad people... it is only a reflection on you.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The squadmate is on the disc but the mission probably wasn't, at least that's what the download in origin would suggest.

And if what they define as piracy is true, there's a LOT of modders in trouble, I mean have you seen Skyrim mods? Editing that code and putting whatever they wanted in there! Pirates all of you!

the difference is Bethesda lets them do it, and the EULA of the creation kit is equally as restrictive.

I want you to read that back to yourself. Read it a few times. What you are saying is this:

I have given money to a company, and they have given me nothing in return.

They have the right to take everything back if they want to, without giving me back my money.

You cannot equate this to a running service, such as an MMO or real world resort or club, as there are no more upkeep costs after development. Bug fixes do not count as an upkeep cost, as they are developers repairing mistakes on the product they've made.

If this is the case, and this is the future of the gaming industry, then I think I'll stop playing games altogether. It hardly seems worth it to pay for something I can't own.

Please, stop supporting bad business practises. Companies have their own best interests at heart, and if you allow them to effectively rob you, they will. It doesn't make them bad people... it is only a reflection on you.

They did give you something in return for the money you payed, a license.

please actually read what someone types before responding to it.

this isn't the "futue" of gaming. EULA's have been almost the exact same since 1990.

the only difference now is that with the internet and services like Origins they finally have the means to do what they always legally could.

 

[Elamdri]

I have given money to a company, and they have given me nothing in return.

...What the hell are you talking about? You got a copy of the Software and a license to use it. Since when is that nothing.

They have the right to take everything back if they want to, without giving me back my money.

If you violate the terms of your license.

Please, stop supporting bad business practises. Companies have their own best interests at heart, and if you allow them to effectively rob you, they will. It doesn't make them bad people... it is only a reflection on you.

In what way are you being robbed? How? You were told that Mass Effect 3 was 60 dollars. You were told that there was additional content that costs another 10 dollars unless you get the collectors edition. You went ahead and made the purchase. You assented to the terms of your license when you used the software. I fail to see at what point you were robbed by anybody.

Now, you could complain that the contract is unfair. That's certainly true. But no one forced you to buy the game. You could have easily not purchased it. All you have is a case of buyer's remorse.

 

[Elamdri]

As reported by Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/11/new-video-shows-mass-effect-3-day-one-dlc-already-on-disc/]

This video shows it can be partially unlocked with a simple edit:


And an exchange from BioWare's forums indicates that, in EA's eyes, accessing content included on the disc of a game you legally bought makes you, no joke, a pirate [http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2214/1331503101076.png].

Let the frivolous throwing around of the word entitlement begin.

It seems unclear to me from that video that the DLC actually is on the disc. All it shows is that the data for the Prothean Squadmate is on the disc. It doesn't say anything about the mission, the dialogue, cutscenes or anything of that nature. All we see is him in combat with a bit of combat banter.

 

[Snotnarok]

The squadmate is on the disc but the mission probably wasn't, at least that's what the download in origin would suggest.

And if what they define as piracy is true, there's a LOT of modders in trouble, I mean have you seen Skyrim mods? Editing that code and putting whatever they wanted in there! Pirates all of you!

the difference is Bethesda lets them do it, and the EULA of the creation kit is equally as restrictive.

See I don't buy that because when you buy a car, or a toaster the company can't tell you what you can, and cannot do to it. If you want to shred the car, put it on youtube and make money off the views, you can because you paid money to own the car.

The character is already on the disc, so that's their problem then. They shouldn't have left him there and then no one could edit the code, it's their mistake and if people want to edit code that came off the disc that they bought that's on their machine I can't see the problem. Again, especially because if they didn't want him included they should have just taken him out.

 

[T_ConX]

Also it is piracy because you are gaining access to content you didn't pay for.

Except the content is PHYSICALLY ON THE DISC.

That is all anyone has to say. Just six words. The content is on the disc.

When you bought the game you paid for a license, and that license only covers what Bioware says it doesn't, the fact that those limited animation and voice files are on the disk is irrelevant to the fact the license you bought only covers the base game.

You know what I find hilarious?

The fact that you managed to spell license wrong in THREE UNIQUE WAYS. I've gone ahead and fixed it above, but only because it was painful for me to read.

-You dont own the disk

This is the part where my troll alarms started going off.

-You dont own the box

Confirmed troll. That, or seriously indoctrinated Bioware Defense Force.

-You dont own the information on the disk

Stop acting like you do.

 

[beniki]

I have given money to a company, and they have given me nothing in return.

...What the hell are you talking about? You got a copy of the Software and a license to use it. Since when is that nothing.

They have the right to take everything back if they want to, without giving me back my money.

If you violate the terms of your license.

Please, stop supporting bad business practises. Companies have their own best interests at heart, and if you allow them to effectively rob you, they will. It doesn't make them bad people... it is only a reflection on you.

In what way are you being robbed? How? You were told that Mass Effect 3 was 60 dollars. You were told that there was additional content that costs another 10 dollars unless you get the collectors edition. You went ahead and made the purchase. You assented to the terms of your license when you used the software. I fail to see at what point you were robbed by anybody.

Now, you could complain that the contract is unfair. That's certainly true. But no one forced you to buy the game. You could have easily not purchased it. All you have is a case of buyer's remorse.

I haven't bought the game. I'm waiting for a version that I'll actually feel comfortable buying first. It's not that I can't afford the game, but I'm willing to wait for something that seems worth the price.

If I pay for something, I expect to own it. If they are selling a license, then that should be made explicitly clear, on the box, in the store, and by the people selling it. If it isn't marked down somewhere, then I will have to assume that I own everything that I pay for in my hand at the time.

At worst, the company is taking your money, and retaining ownership of the product. I've previously said why it is not a service that can be taken away after purchase. A rather gentle way of robbing you, but you're still out of pocket.

At best, they are advertising a complete product, when it is in fact, only a license.

Either option is a bad business practise, which you are allowing to happen. Don't let it happen.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Yes because saying you don't own the disk or the box, both of which are legally true, makes me a troll?

 

[SajuukKhar]

I haven't bought the game. I'm waiting for a version that I'll actually feel comfortable buying first. It's not that I can't afford the game, but I'm willing to wait for something that seems worth the price.

If I pay for something, I expect to own it. If they are selling a license, then that should be made explicitly clear, on the box, in the store, and by the people selling it. If it isn't marked down somewhere, then I will have to assume that I own everything that I pay for in my hand at the time.

At worst, the company is taking your money, and retaining ownership of the product. I've previously said why it is not a service that can be taken away after purchase. A rather gentle way of robbing you, but you're still out of pocket.

At best, they are advertising a complete product, when it is in fact, only a license.

Either option is a bad business practise, which you are allowing to happen. Don't let it happen.

Just about every game made now has the words "this product is subject to a licensing agreement" on the box.

It is in that small text on the bottom of the back of the box that you are expected to read before purchase.

Not doing so is legally considered to be the solely the fault of the customers.

 

[Adultism]

Why do you guys not expect this from EA?

They are greedy, selfish, and they hate their customers.

I refuse to get Origin, I refuse to support them. I buy the games used.

They are a plague on gaming society.

I should add that some of the people in here look silly. Do you really not want to own something you paid for? Is that a gaming life you want to live, easily shut out of something you paid for. No reason?

I sure as hell don't

A convo with a game programer

Adultism: but now they can ban you form the single player too
Adultism: which is fucking garbage
Adultism: Making 60$ go to waste
Adultism: yeah no thank you.
|||||||||: this is why people pirate stuff
Adultism: This is why I buy used.
||||||||: when you treat your paying customers like criminals
Adultism: Or rent.
|||||||||: they will just go for it
|||||||||: they already consider them criminals already

 

[Xpheyel]

Except it hasn't.

Your sycophantic hatred of bioware =/= debunking the picture

Um, what you say directly after this does:

Also it is piracy because you are gaining access to content you didn't pay for.

Why even bring up the development cycle then? I thought the point of that little chart was that the Prothean DLC was developed between Production and Testing. In order for it to be "accessing content you didn't pay for", the content has to have been created in the Production phase so that it can be on the gold game disc.

In other words, the DLC in it's totality was not developed between Production and Testing. Part of it was made in Production, or this whole scenario would be impossible. Namely, all the parts not directly pertaining to the Prothean's associated side quest.

When you bought the game you paied for a lsience, and that lisence only covers what Bioware says it doesn, the fact that those limited animation and voice files are on the disk is irellevent to the fact the liscence you bought only covers the base game.

-You dont own the disk
-You dont own the box
-You dont own the information on the disk

Stop acting like you do.

First of all, I certainly DO own the box and disc, if I buy a boxed physical version. The box and it's contents are my property. If I want to take them out to the back 40 and blow them up with dynamite or glue them to a hat, that's my prerogative. If, for some reason, they sell me a disc that is writable I can write data on it. It is my piece of physical media now. While the situation with software ownership has reached some pretty silly levels, they CAN'T show up at my door and demand the box back. I can't do something like copy and resell the box art or logos because they're covered by copyright. I can resell the box and disc though, even if they are glued to a stetson.

And finally, I'm going to agree with Kahunaburger. I believe software modification is legal. It isn't piracy. It might be a breach of the EULA, and they can ban you from Origin for it, but even cracked games are legal if you have an original legitimately purchased copy. Same as how you can make as many copies of a piece of music or use ROMs on an emulator for your personal use, as long as there is a legal original purchase at the bottom of it.

You could argue that the ME3 license itself does not cover anything they decide to sell you off it after the fact. Unless the Prothean related content is counted as specific exception in the license though, I think you're looking at a consumer protection issue. Effectively, if a company can sell you a license that doesn't actually stipulate what it does and doesn't license... Licenses become meaningless. You could retroactively charge the consumer for anything they'd thought they'd bought by making a second license which covers something specific.

TLDR;

Bioware made a portion of the Prothean content in the production cycle, or exactly when they said they didn't while trying to sell From Ashes. Whoops!

The legality of it all probably depends on the exact wording of the license pertaining to ME3. If they accidentally sold a license which can be interpreted as covering the Prothean on-disc/in-download content (wild guess, it probably does), they made a boo-boo. They can suck it up or (more likely) start banning people. Legally piracy? Unless the license says so, no.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

1. You are aware it is possible to put game data on a disk during the testing phase?

2. Legally you don't own the game disk, it had been upheld in several courts, though there are also several in which it hasn't. It really depends on what court you get into. however since the supreme court hasn't made a ruling one way or the other EULA's statements of you not owning the disk are valid until YOU specifically go to court and win the disk in a legal battle.

3. software modification isn't illegal in many circumstances in which the developers allow it, I.e. Bethesda and the Elder scrolls games.

 

[beniki]

They did give you something in return for the money you payed, a license.

please actually read what someone types before responding to it.

this isn't the "futue" of gaming. EULA's have been almost the exact same since 1990.

the only difference now is that with the internet and services like Origins they finally have the means to do what they always legally could.

I did read. It didn't make any sense to me. Not the picture showing the development cycle. That's pretty simple, and it's only a mistake on EA BioWare's part to make it Day 1 DLC, rather than content they can sell a month later... and a bigger mistake to include the data on the disc if they don't want people to access it. It only makes people suspicious.

What I found to be nonsensical was the assumption that you've bought a license, rather than a physical product, when it's marketed and sold as a physical product.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I did read. It didn't make any sense to me. Not the picture showing the development cycle. That's pretty simple, and it's only a mistake on EA BioWare's part to make it Day 1 DLC, rather than content they can sell a month later... and a bigger mistake to include the data on the disc if they don't want people to access it. It only makes people suspicious.

What I found to be nonsensical was the assumption that you've bought a license, rather than a physical product, when it's marketed and sold as a physical product.

It isn't marked and sold as a physical product.

Games state on the back of their boxes that "this product is subject to a licensing agreement"
.
.

Also why should bioware have to sit on finished content because of schizophrenic paranoia on the consumers side?

that is just silly.

 

[Murmillos]

Funny that the video fails the mention that
1. voice acting
2. charater models/animations
Are both done in a early pre-production stage as they are insanely easy to do and require little time.

It is actually kinda pathetic how badly the video trys to manipulate the dev process to make it look like bioware lied when they didn't.

That image may be true in some cases, but its not true in all cases, and its 100% incorrect to use in trying to defend the 'From Ashes' DLC. But it's not even correct when looking at the facts at hand.
Where in that image does it shows that assets are striped from the main game to be made into DLC later. Or where DLC assets are able to be placed into the "core" game before its shipped to make DLC downloading quicker/faster.

From what BioWare and EA have tried to make is believe (along with that continued use of that factually incorrect image for THIS case), is that everything about 'From Ashes' was made 100% in a vacuum from the main game and the two [DLC/Core Game] teams were separated from each other. What do they believe their customers are, mouth breathing morons?

If BioWare was just 100% honest and stated that many of the DLC ideas, concepts, artwork and audio work was completed along with the core team and that they only included as much as the DLC components into the main game before going gold, this would have all blown over in a mater of days.. WEEKS ago.
But because BioWare and EA have continued act dismissive toward their fans and continued to perverse the lie that nothing about the DLC was even integral or developed along with the core game development -- people have the right to be god honestly angry when the truth shows 100% otherwise.