ME3 Prothean DLC on disc after all

[SajuukKhar]

Wait, people actually needed MORE reason to call EA a bunch of moronic fucktards?

I purchased the fucking disc, the content is on the disc, and you can get stuffed if you think it's piracy when you unlock something YOU PAYED FOR.

Why the FUCK do video games get away with this?
They don't try this shit with movies or ebooks, but suddenly because video games are obviously so much different they can get away with making you pay for a product you've already bought?

This is the same sort of thing as if you bought a DVD and had to pay $5 to unlock the directors edition already on the disc.

Actually e-books and Movies are under the same licensing agreements as games, and legally COULD do the same thing.

It is just easier to do it with games because becuase of the nature of expansions and DLC that movies and E-Book don't have.

 

[Elamdri]

Wait, people actually needed MORE reason to call EA a bunch of moronic fucktards?

I purchased the fucking disc, the content is on the disc, and you can get stuffed if you think it's piracy when you unlock something YOU PAYED FOR.

Why the FUCK do video games get away with this?
They don't try this shit with movies or ebooks, but suddenly because video games are obviously so much different they can get away with making you pay for a product you've already bought?

This is the same sort of thing as if you bought a DVD and had to pay $5 to unlock the directors edition already on the disc.

Actually e-books and Movies are under the same licensing agreements as games, and legally COULD do the same thing.

I'm waiting for DLC for E-books, god can you imagine the rage?

God... I'm ON TO SOMETHING. BE BACK IN A FEW.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

Yeah their was a 600mb dl for it so only part of it was on the disk. Seriously if you want a dc story look at street fighter x tekken, all the data is on the disk and their still charging for it as dlc.

 

[DeadYorick]

snip

1. You are aware it is possible to put game data on a disk during the testing phase?

What would the possible benefit of keeping a character on a disk, during the testing phase, be?

I mean I just dont understand this. You do realize Bioware has development consoles, they dont have to burn a disk every time they make an edit to a game. If it was made during the "testing phase" then why would they keep it on the disk? Logically they would remove it to prevent this sort of thing happening. Either Bioware is lying, or incompetent.

Here are the facts so far

This character was clearly made before the game was certified, evidenced by the fact it still appears on the disk.

This character had Bioware take development time, from the core game, into making it

It obviously was meant to be put into the game originally, otherwise they would have cut it out "during testing phase". If it was made during the regular development of the game it would have been harder to cut out due to it being connected to scripts and the like.

And most importantly, Bioware LIED to it's customers, please rewatch the video to understand this. Certification means that the game is sent to Microsoft to be approved and later mass produced, if this was the case then the character was designed before certification.

Do you really want to defend Bioware for lying to its customers and get on the offensive about "licensing issues"? Do you really want to buy a game where you have to pay extra money to unlock content that you already paid for?

dont make assumptions about my views.

Says the person who spent the last few posts in this topic defending a company's corporate greed.

 

[Murmillos]

The core game is considered done when it goes into testing phase, they spent time in the testing phase to copy-paste the animations from one squad-mate to another, since most of the games characters use the same animations just slightly altered for height, and did the voice work.

All of THAT was done during the time the game is testing phase and considered complete, and that is why THOSE things were on the disk. There is nothing preventing them from putting game data on a disk during the testing phase.

True, and if so, its sad that EA/BioWare are not saying anything on the same level. I guess they are taking the rule "don't feed the trolls" as "don't help inform your misinformed customer".

I mean fuck, all Casey would have needed to say 2 months ago is that once the core game is completed for testing, the DLC is in works and just before the disk goes gold, they will try to stuff as much as the completed assets (animations, artwork, voice work) into the disk to make downloading smaller.
They should also should have been more clearer that the ideas and concept for the this DLC was developed along with the main game, but the actual work wasn't done until the core game completed.

If developers don't want to take the steps necessary to help inform their customers how the process works, then they shouldn't ***** when people get angry for not knowing how it works. But if those developers lie, or purposefully mislead in telling the truth, then you know what; Fuck them when they try to act they don't know why their customer base are so angry.

 

[black_knight1337]

You didn't pay for the content you paid for a license.

the ME3 EULA can be found here
http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas

I know that when purchasing a game I am not buying a game but instead buying the right to use it. Which is exactly what I said before. I pay for the right to use something I should be able to use all of it.

That Eula actually has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread. All it states is the normal stuff like we have to have a registered account, only one serial per account and that you have to be over 13 to activate the account. Nowhere does it say that I can't modify an ini file (which is literally a bunch of settings).

 

[SajuukKhar]

What would the possible benefit of keeping a character on a disk, during the testing phase, be?

I mean I just dont understand this. You do realize Bioware has development consoles, they dont have to burn a disk every time they make an edit to a game.

Here are the facts so far

This character was clearly made before the game was certified, evidenced by the fact it still appears on the disk.

This character had Bioware take development time, from the core game, into making it

It obviously was meant to be put into the game originally, otherwise they would have cut it out "during testing phase". If it was made during the regular development of the game it would have been harder to cut out due to it being connected to scripts and the like.

And most importantly, Bioware LIED to it's customers, please rewatch the video to understand this. Certification means that the game is sent to Microsoft to be approved and later mass produced, if this was the case then the character was designed before certification.

Do you really want to defend Bioware for lying to its customers and get on the offensive about "licensing issues"? Do you really want to buy a game where you have to pay extra money to unlock content that you already paid for?

Keeping finished datae on the disk is helpful for two reasons
1. It allows for easier integration for the other DLc parts. Exactly the reason why Bioware had placeholder files for Kasumi, and Lair of the Shadow broker on the disk day 1.

Also why New vegas had DLC placeholder files for DLC 1 and 2, and DLC2 had a placeholder ifles for DLC 3 and 4.

2. It means less for the player to have to download easier.


They said the game was done was made post game completion, which meas testing/certification phase, and it was.

Also you are aware bioware has multiple teams on multiple projects and that putting a different team on the DLC character doesn't mean they had to take ANY of the staff from the base game away so that "fact" is wrong.

 

[beniki]

Wait, people actually needed MORE reason to call EA a bunch of moronic fucktards?

I purchased the fucking disc, the content is on the disc, and you can get stuffed if you think it's piracy when you unlock something YOU PAYED FOR.

Why the FUCK do video games get away with this?
They don't try this shit with movies or ebooks, but suddenly because video games are obviously so much different they can get away with making you pay for a product you've already bought?

This is the same sort of thing as if you bought a DVD and had to pay $5 to unlock the directors edition already on the disc.

Actually e-books and Movies are under the same licensing agreements as games, and legally COULD do the same thing.

I'm waiting for DLC for E-books, god can you imagine the rage?

Actually I can see that for something like Lord of the Rings, if it were written today. Buying the E-book gets you the main story line, but you have to pay extra for Tom Bombadil and Reclaiming the Shire.

... and I sincerely hope no book publisher reads that.

Anyway, thanks for the above... now I understand better I'm starting to see why people say publishers have out-dated business models.

 

[T_ConX]

Yes because legally you don't own the disk you own the license. It has been that way since the 90's

So... since the disc isn't actually mine, if I decide to snap the disc in half, is it vandalism because I'm destroying something I don't own.

It should be in the very small text at the bottom of the back of the box.

OH! MY MISTAKE! I WAS LOOKING AT THE TOP HALF OF THE FRONT OF BOX! /sarcasm

Secondly they aren't "pushing" anything, its been that way since the 90's, they have had us on the Ball and chain for ages.

Thirdly I never said i agree with it, just that it is legally the way things are. dont make assumptions about my views.

Well, you're saying things that sound CRAZY, you seem to believe things that are CRAZY. so I have to assume that you're...

Because it costs more money for EA to arrest everyone who breaks open game files then they could possibly make back. They aren't inclined to actually go through with it.

EA can't arrest anyone. EA is a company. If EA thinks people using file editing tools to unlock the Protean is illegal, they can call the Police and ask that they be arrest. They don't have to spend a dime.

But even EA knows that legally, they have no recourse to deal with people editing .bin files or spreading the word about it. That's why they have to resort to banning anyone who even mentions the topic on their official forums.

Secondly people HAVE been arrested for it before, it is just rare.

thirdly there are many court ruling were judges have said that. Look them up.

No. I'm not researching your argument for you.

 

[Ziggy]

Also it is piracy because you are gaining access to content you didn't pay for.

Except the content is PHYSICALLY ON THE DISC.

That is all anyone has to say. Just six words. The content is on the disc.

When you bought the game you paid for a license, and that license only covers what Bioware says it doesn't, the fact that those limited animation and voice files are on the disk is irrelevant to the fact the license you bought only covers the base game.

You know what I find hilarious?

The fact that you managed to spell license wrong in THREE UNIQUE WAYS. I've gone ahead and fixed it above, but only because it was painful for me to read.

-You dont own the disk

This is the part where my troll alarms started going off.

-You dont own the box

Confirmed troll. That, or seriously indoctrinated Bioware Defense Force.

-You dont own the information on the disk

Stop acting like you do.

He's not a troll.
It's called stockholm syndrom

 

[SajuukKhar]

i hate this sites posting system.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yes because legally you don't own the disk you own the license. It has been that way since the 90's

So... since the disc isn't actually mine, if I decide to snap the disc in half, is it vandalism because I'm destroying something I don't own.

It should be in the very small text at the bottom of the back of the box.

OH! MY MISTAKE! I WAS LOOKING AT THE TOP HALF OF THE FRONT OF BOX! /sarcasm

Secondly they aren't "pushing" anything, its been that way since the 90's, they have had us on the Ball and chain for ages.

Thirdly I never said i agree with it, just that it is legally the way things are. dont make assumptions about my views.

Well, you're saying things that sound CRAZY, you seem to believe things that are CRAZY. so I have to assume that you're...

Because it costs more money for EA to arrest everyone who breaks open game files then they could possibly make back. They aren't inclined to actually go through with it.

EA can't arrest anyone. EA is a company. If EA thinks people using file editing tools to unlock the Protean is illegal, they can call the Police and ask that they be arrest. They don't have to spend a dime.

But even EA knows that legally, they have no recourse to deal with people editing .bin files or spreading the word about it. That's why they have to resort to banning anyone who even mentions the topic on their official forums.

Secondly people HAVE been arrested for it before, it is just rare.

thirdly there are many court ruling were judges have said that. Look them up.

No. I'm not researching your argument for you.

No breaking the disk isn't vandalism because you are allowed to dispose of the disk as you want, they dont care about the disk really just the data on it.

Also they are supposed to have that it is part of a licensing agreement somewhere on the box.

It may be Crazy but it is the truth.

I never said EA could arrest you, I said that you could be arrested.

I never expect you to.

 

[Lillowh]

Well, this is definitely not the first time that Mr. Hudson has Lied to us. Here's 2 for example:

?This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

Which is a complete and utter lie because that is EXACTLY what it comes down to.
and

?It?s more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Source: http://www.oxm.co.uk/37677/mass-effect-3-citadel-is-bigger-than-ever-endings-will-be-more-sophisticated/

OT: I still think the continued tolerance of such policies will lead to the death of the game industry and it's up to us, the consumer, to vote with our wallets one the matter. That's why I didn't buy ME3 this weekend after my paycheck when I heard about this on disk crap. Fell for it with Gears, not again. (No I did not pirate it, My friend let me borrow his Account and Copy since he had to study for midterms way more than I did.)

 

[Elamdri]

Wait, people actually needed MORE reason to call EA a bunch of moronic fucktards?

I purchased the fucking disc, the content is on the disc, and you can get stuffed if you think it's piracy when you unlock something YOU PAYED FOR.

Why the FUCK do video games get away with this?
They don't try this shit with movies or ebooks, but suddenly because video games are obviously so much different they can get away with making you pay for a product you've already bought?

This is the same sort of thing as if you bought a DVD and had to pay $5 to unlock the directors edition already on the disc.

Actually e-books and Movies are under the same licensing agreements as games, and legally COULD do the same thing.

I'm waiting for DLC for E-books, god can you imagine the rage?

Actually I can see that for something like Lord of the Rings, if it were written today. Buying the E-book gets you the main story line, but you have to pay extra for Tom Bombadil and Reclaiming the Shire.

... and I sincerely hope no book publisher reads that.

Anyway, thanks for the above... now I understand better I'm starting to see why people say publishers have out-dated business models.

Hahaha, I actually just posted a new post about what would it be like if other forms of media had DLC.

 

[ThriKreen]

But Casey said this DLC was only completed AFTER the "Core" game was completed. So how could animations/skins/dialog be in the "Core" game if it was done after?

Again, you are clearly not understanding the argument of the problem. They [the game developers] have clearly tried to perverse the idea that this DLC was ONLY developed on AFTER the core game was completed. So again, how can most of his assets be in the Core game if it was done after. Either we are all seeing the same illusion, or they lied to us.

Or you're refusing to acknowledge there's more to game development than what you think you know.

You'll need to understand how game resources are handled. Many things are shared, like animations, textures, etc. And in fact, if the resource was originally in the game but cut, there's often a situation where it's far easier to leave the content in the resource files and unreferenced, rather than try to spend the time to rip it out (often not enough time to do a thorough job), as ripping it out could possibly break something else.

Maybe at some point in development they had an idea of a whole prothean squad to fight alongside the Reapers, but cut it as it didn't make much sense or whatever. Or there are prothean NPCs, or they are used in a flashback sequence? But hey, they still have the resources, just make it one squadmate. Until you've sat into the triage meetings, we'll never know.

So they kept the resources and quickly set up the hook to enable him as a squadmate. Then set about working on the actual DLC module itself after things were shipped off for certification to the publisher and console makers. Smaller scale for testing, faster certification time, could be timed to be released as Day 1 DLC.

Multiple people have stated the hack mentioned above is just unlocking the squadmate, there's still a 500mb+ download to be done. I did catch someone saying the PC version had it as part of the game, but that could very well be a PC CE version off an Origin direct download, in which case it would make sense to update the archive to include the DLC, instead of making the customer download two separate things.

 

[Beryl77]

I don't see the problem with the DLC. The mission and dialog on the Normandy aren't on the disc, you can merely unlock the character as a squadmate. There are traces of "Lair of the Shadow Broker" on the ME2 retail disc as well but it doesn't mean that the whole DLC was finished in time.
Maybe they had planned to include him at some point but saw that it wouldn't be done in time and decided to use it as DLC, it's just one of many possibilities. The problem is, we don't know how the development went, we don't have the full story and in my opinion it's just premature judgment and/or the desire to hate Bioware/EA.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I don't see the problem with the DLC. The mission and dialog on the Normandy aren't on the disc, you can merely unlock the character as a squadmate. There are traces of "Lair of the Shadow Broker" on the ME2 retail disc as well but it doesn't mean that the whole DLC was finished in time.
Maybe they had planned to include him at some point but saw that it wouldn't be done in time and decided to use it as DLC, it's just one of many possibilities. The problem is, we don't know how the development went, we don't have the full story and in my opinion it's just premature judgment and/or the desire to hate Bioware/EA.

If this site had a reputation system I would give some to you.

 

[T_ConX]

No breaking the disk isn't vandalism because you are allowed to dispose of the disk as you want, they dont care about the disk really just the data on it.

Am I even arguing with the same guy?

PREVIOUSLY:

-You dont own the disk
-You dont own the box
-You dont own the information on the disk

Stop acting like you do.

Also they are supposed to have that it is part of a licensing agreement somewhere on the box.

NOPE! Can't see it anywhere!

It may be Crazy but it is the truth.

And you believe every word of it...

I never said EA could arrest you, I said that you could be arrested.

PREVIOUSLY:

Because it costs more money for EA to arrest everyone who breaks open game files then they could possibly make back. They aren't inclined to actually go through with it.

I never expect you to.

Remember that guy who made Hot Coffee? He edited the files in a game that (according to you) he didn't own? Remember when he got arrested for committing the HIGH CRIME of MODIFYING GAME DATA?

OH! Wait! That never happened. He never was arrested. Instead, Rockstar was a the biggest legal loser from that one...

 

[Simonoly]

Gosh, what an awful little video. So, you can edit some .bin file or what not to access the placeholder for a downloadable character? This is meaningless until someone can actually access the full content of the 'From Ashes' dlc (mission, all dialogue options etc) as placeholders for future dlc is standard practice for many modern day titles. Without any actual evidence it's all a little bit alarmist at the moment.

I'm not a huge fan of EA and I'm not the greatest fan of Bioware after the less than perfect Dragon Age sequel, but all this attacking of Bioware/EA for Mass Effect 3 is just getting tiresome and really quite embarrassing now.

 

[Yopaz]

you bought a license, and that license only covers the base game.

[citation needed]

OT: If anyone has the relevant part of the EULA, that would be very interesting to see. Of course, I'm not convinced that a EULA could conceivably be used to restrict access to purchased content for the same reason it's legal to jailbreak an iPhone.

http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas
D. Further Restrictions. Your right to use the Software is limited to the
license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, seek to
disable, distribute, perform, publish,modify, create works from, or use the
Software or any component of it, except as expressly authorized by EA.
Unless expressly authorized by EA, you are prohibited from making a
copy of the Software available on a network where it could be used by
multiple users. You are prohibited from making the Software available
over a network where it could be downloaded by multiple users. You may
not remove or alter EA?s trademarks or logos, or legal notices included in
the Software or related assets.

Altering the data constitutes modifying and thus is against the EULA.

or alter

Oh noes! You've brought EA's lawyers down on us all with your reckless bolding of words!

(We'd have to see the whole EULA to know what this statement means in context. Exactly what "the licence grant above" entails is important. I have to go and sleep now, but someone else with sufficient time on their hands would be able to determine what the EULA has to say re: modding - particularly since mods of EA games aren't exactly rare.)

So you are proven wrong and your response is that you try to make fun of the one who proved you wrong? How mature of you.