ME3 Prothean DLC on disc after all

[Kathinka]

it might be interesting to know that this "you are not allowed to manipulate data" thing doesn't hold true outside of the US.

in most european nations, like for example germany, courts have explicityl ruled that you CAN alter files of games you bought in any way you wish, as long as you don't intend to make profit from it somehow. (in that specific ruling it was about a no-cd-crack that the guy charged made for a game by changing stuff in the .exe file)

so...yeah...in your FACE, ea/bioware!

(not that it would matter for me, since where i'm from you can legaly download games from the internet...so, yeah. maybe once this thing is worth my money, bioware <.< )

 

[Bobbity]

Some of it is on the disc. Presumably, leftovers from the original script, in which the Prothean squaddie was the Catalyst and absolutely key to the plot.

They changed the script after it leaked and people cracked the shits, but I guess what was already done got left on the disc.

Stop bitching about this, and help us ***** about the endings instead.

 

[bakan]

snip

He's not a troll.
It's called stockholm syndrom

Haha, I was also thinking that he is just a massive troll in every ME3 related thread, but Stockholm syndrom makes sense, too

 

[Kahunaburger]

Okay, so the consensus seems to be that EA has basically no authority to regulate access to disc content. Particularly since they don't seem particularly mad about other mods [http://dragonage.nexusmods.com/], .ini mods [http://www.masseffectsaves.com/mods.php], or mods that restore content [http://dragonage.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=1120] in the game files but not implemented into the game.

How about digital distribution? Can wording of ToS mean that somebody doesn't own software they download from Origin, or do the same general principles that invalidate the EULA apply there as well?

 

[Syzygy23]

Therefore, I have the right to do what ever I damn well please with my software and piece of pressed acrylic.

This is kind of the point I was making, only articulated a lot better.

If you can only agree to EULA after the purchase, it doesn't produce any legal consequences. It is as if the EULA never even existed. Which means you're free to do what you please.

I swear, having X-ray vision that only works on bullshit must be some rare mutation, otherwise why are EA/Bioware still making money?

It's not a mutation. It's augmentation in my case.

I KNEW those sunglasses weren't just for looking cool!

 

[Tanakh]

As much as I dislike Bioware's buisness practices; I am sickened more for the use of Mozart's Requiem in such a cheap way...

 

[Tanakh]

Firstly, I don't disagree with your opinion that what Bioware was legal and a legit buisness practice (albeit slimy). However....

2. charater models/animations
Are both done in a early pre-production stage as they are insanely easy to do and require little time.

Lol, for sure, charater models/animations are "insanely easy"... have you ever tired to do one? Doing the textures, the normal mapping, the toons topology for good animation, the rigging, the movement for everything they do, the mesh? This is complete BS, making a good model, balancing between detail and polygon count, making it "feel right" and "move right" is one of the hardest task a digital artist can take on. As guy that likes to spend some of his free time doing 3d models i can tell you doing most architectural structures is much easier than 1 good toon.

It is actually kinda pathetic how badly the video trys to manipulate the dev process to make it look like bioware lied when they didn't.

Lie: Something intended or serving to convey a false impression, you know that right?
So "The content in "From Ashes" was developed by a separate team (after the core game was finished) and not completed until well after the main game went into certification." is a lie because saying "The content in "From Ashes" was developed ... after the core game was finished" is a lie, it was developed during before the core game was finished. If you want to nitpick, he is telling a halftruth, which is just a kind of lie; however he can lie if he wants, as he is not breaking any law, nor any agreement with consumers, nor commiting perjury.

Repost of an image

God, that image is BS, full of crap and bias. So let me link an image, since nowday kids seem to understand "posting image" as "debating":

Spoiler

(And that last remark was not directed at you specifically)

Your sycophantic hatred of bioware =/= debunking the picture

-You dont own the disk
-You dont own the box
-You dont own the information on the disk

Stop acting like you do.

Again, that pic is full of BS, no logic at all and very little insight, just pretty colours and a "this DLC is kk guyz" painted in "i love EA colours". And you do own the disk, and you do own the box, read your EULA, the only thing you don't own is the software, the info ON the disk, if you didn't owned the disk then second hand selling would be illegal and that's why breaking it is legal.

All this "lol you don't understand game dev" is BS. Did they lied? Yep, Are they using tactics to squeeze fanboys? Yep, Is it legal? Yep, Could they have included this without delaying? Probably not, it would have delayed the game maybe 1 week, two at most.

 

[DoPo]

I went to bed last night, woke up in the morning, went to lectures, came back and I find another thread about the [having sex] DLC of the [cursed by a non-specific deity] ME3. So, I scrolled through the four [having sex with a woman that has a child] pages of comments to see a lot of people [having pain in their backside].

And without reading too closely, it seems that most of them were bashing this.

Funny that the video fails the mention that
1. voice acting
2. charater models/animations
Are both done in a early pre-production stage as they are insanely easy to do and require little time.

It is actually kinda pathetic how badly the video trys to manipulate the dev process to make it look like bioware lied when they didn't.

SajuukKhar you win my share of Internetz. This comment is my favourite comment of the week and it's only [having sex] Monday. I will steal this pic and repost it in any upcoming threads that [female dog] about the DLC. I'm sick and tired of people viewing software development as a single block of work.

I wanted to say, thanks. I see a lot of hate going your way here. I just hope my gratitude will make this thread slightly more bearable.

EDIT:

Again, that pic is full of BS, no logic at all and very little insight, just pretty colours and a "this DLC is kk guyz" painted in "i love EA colours".

This post was just above mine, so I'll only comment on that - if the picture is bullshit, would you care for providing an actual diagram of how dev time is split? Something to justify the claim that any day 1 DLC cannot and should not be a separate product? Something to counter the fact that it was built, advertised and sold as a separate product? I want a justification that doesn't tap into "it's on the disc". I want you to prove it to me and everybody else that without a doubt the creation of any DLC cannot be separated from the work on the main game ever. If you do that, what you said is correct, if you don't - you are talking bullshit.

 

[Something Amyss]

OT: I still think the continued tolerance of such policies will lead to the death of the game industry and it's up to us, the consumer, to vote with our wallets one the matter.

To the contrary, I'm pretty sure this is becoming the lifeblood of the gaming industry, especially due to consumer permissiveness or apathy.

Which goes to the "vote with your wallet" nonsense. It's crap.

That's why I didn't buy ME3 this weekend after my paycheck when I heard about this on disk crap. Fell for it with Gears, not again. (No I did not pirate it, My friend let me borrow his Account and Copy since he had to study for midterms way more than I did.)

Ah yes, send the message that you really really want to play the game anyway, despite your convictions. Can't see any way that could be a problem.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure you're violating the ToU and cheating the system by doing this. I'm not sure "I'm not pirating; I'm simply defrauding a corporation" is much of a plus here. Plus, if two wrongs make a right, why isn't it okay for them to do this again because you cheated them?

You're not even voting with your wallet. Instead, you're looking for a way out.

 

[Raijha]

DLC is not the death of the game industry, even if its on disc DLC. So long as people to continue to keep DLC profitable, companies will continue testing the limits of what they can make DLC. When they hit that limit (or if they hit that limit) then they will scale it back to a common medium, and we will simply say, gee, this is better then having to pay an extra $20 to unlock the second half of the game, and the industry will become stable with DLC being an even more common, normal thing than it is now. The original acceptance of DLC, and continued acceptance of DLC has ensured this.

As was said, gamers are apathetic and basically non-committal. We are willing to accept much more BS and continue to pay for what we enjoy than any number of other industries, and because of that, we bring this kind of treatment on ourselves. Sure a bunch of us will come to forums like this and ***** about it, but what difference does that make? Too many of us are willing to accept this treatment to really make a difference right now.

Eventually there will be a limit to what we can tolerate, whether it involves DLC, or DRM, or just general pricing of games in general, it will happen, there will be a game so ridiculous in one of those fields, nobody will buy it, but all that will mean is game companies will take one tiny step back, and resume whatever they were doing up to that point, and it will be the norm for another 5, maybe 10 years tops till they start pushing again.

The cycle is unavoidable. Our fate is sealed. We will be harvested as the gaming generation before us was harvested, and no mere gaming forum can stop it. We are the Harbingers of the developer/producer's salvation through our apathy.

 

[T_ConX]

Yes because legally you don't own the disk you own the license.

By including the phrase "subject to license agreement", EA IS making it known that the sales and use of the product are subject to specific terms, and when you purchase this product you agree to those terms, at the time of sale. (The sales contract being legally binding and all), but what those terms are, are NOT made known. It can be assumed by the purchasing party (and rightfully so I might add), that EA is simply taking it upon themselves to remind to abide by the terms of that standard sales contract and pay for your goods before leaving the store.

Of course they are retaining ownership of the software. If they didn't, then you could make and sell your own copies of Mass Effect 3. A License is not a service, it is a contract right you purchase to use the property of another. Selling you a license does NOT mean you are being sold an "incomplete product."

This Software is licensed to you, not sold.
-ME3 EULA

This 'Sold as License' charade needs to stop.

Think about it this way... If games are licensed rather then sold, the used game market would be ILLEGAL. Think about it. You can't trade in the game at Gamestop for credit, because the game isn't actually yours! The major publishers, tired of having Gamestop eating away at their profits with Used Game sales, could just take Gamestop to court for selling games they didn't have the licensing rights to...

But that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen because, while they preach 'This
Software is licensed to you, not sold' in their EULA's, both EULA's and the license argument have little weight in court.

The result: They have to resort to buy new incentives.

 

[Zeetchmen]

EAware is milking its fans with DLC Effect 3? While rabid fans protect a multi-billion dollar company that doesn't care about them one bit?

Careful with the shocking news there, I just learned the sky is blue today!

 

[him over there]

But the ability to use the Prothean as a squad member was already on the disc aka content that you already payed for.

So modding a file on content that you payed in order to allow you to access more content that you payed for is piracy?

As I said before in my previous post, contrary to what you believe you didn't buy the disk, and you dont own the disk or the data on it.

you bought a license, and that license only covers the base game.

the disk technically isn't your property neither is the data on it.

Did you ever think that while that is true it is also wrong and we should try to change that? I mean the consumer holds all the power in this yet we constantly bend over backwards to suit their unjust needs.

 

[DeadYorick]

This is similar to how Kasumi Goto was DLC'd into ME2, her dialogue and model were already in the game.

Yes a buggy placeholder was in her place using Tali's animations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBiVM1eKqsY

Not to mention Kasumi's DLC not only added another mission, it also added a new outfit for Shepard and a wing of the Normandy, it was also not a Day 1 DLC and was released much later after release. Meaning that the development team cut her from development and decided to work on her as DLC afterwards.

 

[ThriKreen]

Yep, Could they have included this without delaying? Probably not, it would have delayed the game maybe 1 week, two at most.

Actually, any new content that isn't a fix for a bug tends to reset the certification period, meaning the delay is 2-3 months, not weeks. Reason being they need to do redo every test to account for the new content not breaking anything, since updating via patches on the consoles is generally frowned upon.

 

[Tanakh]

Actually, any new content that isn't a fix for a bug tends to reset the certification period, meaning the delay is 2-3 months, not weeks. Reason being they need to do redo every test to account for the new content not breaking anything, since updating via patches on the consoles is generally frowned upon.

Lol, it went gold 13 Feb 2012, it was realeased 6 March 2012, that proves that from gold to the market they need 3 weeks. Also, you can find pirate day 1 digital copies from the game which can be cracked to include the dlc with a 21 MB file, meaning that there is at least one day 1 digital copie that included the DLC and the game, bundled and certified; that copy didn't magically get there, as fast as it might be to publish a digital game it will still take couple of days at least after the betatesting was done to get there.

So, on day one you have a at least days old digital copy bundled with the DLC, and it takes them 3 weeks from there to release, do the math, at worst they would have delayed 2 weeks or 2 weeks 5 days mate, 1 or 2 weeks would be more realistic; 2-3 months is BS and you know it.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

Well, yeah, i posted a slightly less BS diagram that also marks why the original has a lot of crap, it's in the post you quoted actually.

And i am not claming day 1 DLC can't be a separate product, why the crap you think that is beyond me; it can be done (DUH already happened, so it certanly can), it's a legal buisness practice, all I am saying is that Bioware spokepersons also lied and that this is a shameless money milking from the fans. So, don't say i need to prove something i never even said.

Lastly, it was sold as a spearate product, that is the only fact. Advertisied and dev would be tricky, because it was announced just as "content" over a year ago, whether it was DLC or simply another dev team of the ME 3 proyect is something that we don't know, so basing arguments on one or the other would be rather silly.