Meat eaters should have to kill for their food.

[Scout Tactical]

I have killed a deer, helped clean the flesh, removed it, cooked it, and had it for dinner. Venison is delicious.

Of course, if you don't have the heart to go deer hunting, you could always go fishing. It's like shooting fish in a barrel! But only if you fish with a gun, in a barrel.

 

[Slippers]

If by killing a cow I'd get all the vegans around me to shut up, I'd do it in a heatbeat. Heck, I'd wipe out a farm with an axe for that.

 

[TheKwertyeweyoppe]

I'm quite aware that convincing people of this would be harder than convince the government to abandon nuclear energy.

Just 'cause(2!) I feel like an argument what's wrong with nuclear energy? It's clean, safe(less deaths per kWh than coal by a factor of 4000) and the energy production (cents per kWh) is cheap. Admittedly the plant's very expensive in the first place.
I personally think persuing nuclear is one of the few things the French got right, but I'm biased against France because my teachers tried to teach me the language for three years.

You got me a bit confused there, are we talking about renewable energy or French culture?
When I said nuclear energy I also meant nuclear weapons. And yes, nuclear energy is useful but it's not the solution to the energy problem.
Quite simply, it's god-damn dangerous (Tchernobyl, Fukashima, etc etc) and it certainly is not clean. That nuclear waste just doesn't disappear, you need to put it in barrels and then landfill the barrels, and even then you'll get a leak or two. And we are talking of nuclear waste that would take million of years to finally become harmless, so I hope you've got patience. Nuclear energy isn't the future, but for the moment we are highly dependent on it until we can find a more practical, long term solution to the energy question.

Also, one of my german teachers literally gave me nightmares but that doesn't give me a right to hold something against the germans in general.

If you want to continue this discussion then kindly message me instead, this is a thread about meat-eating after all.

Speaking of which, if you guys haven't seen the meatrix, well, it's a fun little animation spoof on a certain action movie (can't remember which one for some reason.....). Anyways, it's a less traumatising way to learn about factory farms.

Sorry for the confusion, I'm not saying that I have a right to be biased against the French but subconciously I just am, or rather was. Ever since dropping French I've noticed my opinion of them has gradually gotten higher so they're now nearly average.
So what I said wasn't meant to be offensive, it was a badly worded joke that came out more racist and less funny than I meant it to be.

As for nuclear power while I would love to throw in some statistics (like how the Banqiao hydro dam disaster killed 171000 people and left 11 milion homeless compared to Chernobles 50 deaths and 4000 sick (sorry couldn't resist))but you're right this isn't the thread for it and I'm not really that interested in the argument to continue it.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Snip

I agree with your post in theory, but it's way too impractical and totalitarian.

That being said, what's your stance on medicine? All medicine is tested on animals before it's tested on humans. Should every person using medicine kill off an animal under the same circumstances as when they're put down after testing or not?

Oh, no. That's a whole different story. Without animal research, we wouldn't have life saving medical breakthroughs like insulin. There's no denying how important animal research has been to science, but there is something slightly more wrong about using animal research in, say, a cosmetics lab. Either way, it doesn't hurt to explore effective and cost efficient alternatives to animal research in the long run.

 

[jawakiller]

You should be forced to grow your own food then. Thats your logic, dude.

I was going to make that same argument. I mean really, a plant died or lose some of it's ability to reproduce to give people vegan-friendly foods, so what makes animals special?

Cuz apparently its hypocritical to demand low prices on food if you don't know how hard it is to kill an animal.

And because I think I'm starting to sound like a total dick, ima throw this out there:

a) I live on a fully functioning, family farm.
b) There are animals on it. And I care for them often. (as in, almost everyday)
c) I kill them. And its very bloody.
d) I also shoot things on a regular basis and than prepare and eat them.

Why does this make me more entitled to eat meat? Pulling the trigger is a lot easier than you're making it sound. Paying 20 bucks for a steak is way more painful.

 

[lacktheknack]

Unfortunately, this argument, if taken seriously, has unfortunate overarching implications.

Ever worn wool? Shear a sheep once!

Ever played the piano? Tune it yourself once!

Now, let's take this further logically.

Ever used electricity?

 

[Blindrooster]

I own chickens. I love my chickens, some of them have names (we dont eat the family favs). However, we do eat them. Its not processed meat, its natural. In fact, if you eat meat this way it helps your immune system as opposed to buying red meat at the store.

It's hard to kill an animal, but I'm not so liberal as to be a vegetarean. However I find it interesting you point out mcDonalds... I try to sway all my friends from eating there. They dont buy American products, their beef is barely technically meat, and they are funding rainforest clearing and therefore the debeautification of Earth. I'm with you on the no McDonalds.

Vegetarianism has nothing to do with liberalism. Liberalism is the ideal of having little government control and as few laws as possible. Vegetarianism is a choice to do with what you eat; there is no connection there at all.

Oh? Dictionary.com for Liberal;
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression

I was not reffering to the political party, but this.

If you believe the fluff, their beef is actually Australian beef.

So, eat McDonalds folks - our economy needs it.

Its great if it supports local economies... i just dont like how far the meat has to travel. if you live in Australia, Mcdonalds should buy Australian beef, America American and so on. I'm not an isolationist, trade is good. However beef is another matter....

 

[Gxas]

This is necessary...

Went through three pages until this came up. I was really hoping that someone would post it.

And yes, this is necessary.

EDIT: I should note that I really have no stance on this. I believe what I want and you can believe what you want. You aren't all up in my face about it (though you do make some criticisms which are unnecessary) and as long as things stay that way, I have no qualms with you. I respect you for your beliefs and that is that.

I just wonder if you respect me for mine?

 

[Eventidal]

Feel free to poke holes in it and/or flame me unnecessarily for being a furry. Either one works.

I don't wanna!

I'd much rather flame you for the sentence above or for that dinky little "animals are better than us" speech...

Feel free to present your own opinion, but I'm still of the opinion that humans are the lowliest. Well, not THE LOWLIEST, but lowlier than we give ourselves credit for.

lowlishness.

 

[ThePinkAcidSmurf]

Snip

I agree with your post in theory, but it's way too impractical and totalitarian.

That being said, what's your stance on medicine? All medicine is tested on animals before it's tested on humans. Should every person using medicine kill off an animal under the same circumstances as when they're put down after testing or not?

Oh, no. That's a whole different story. Without animal research, we wouldn't have life saving medical breakthroughs like insulin. There's no denying how important animal research has been to science, but there is something slightly more wrong about using animal research in, say, a cosmetics lab. Either way, it doesn't hurt to explore effective and cost efficient alternatives to animal research in the long run.

But it's the same argument that applies. And the argument that medicine is different from none-vegan foods because you can't get medicine that hasn't been produced without animal testing is countered by the argument that we do not have an industry that can produce enough vegan food to sustain the entire human population.

Cosmetics on the other hand...

 

[fulcran]

I did the very least, looked up all of PETA's shit about how animals are killed in factories. Still don't care, steak is still my favorite food, and I'm still having chicken for lunch tomorrow.

 

[Vandy]

Would I stop eating meat for ethical reasons? No, but I've met plenty of very attractive Vegan ladies, so I would probably stop for that sweet, sweet 'nanny.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

But it's the same argument that applies. And the argument that medicine is different from none-vegan foods because you can't get medicine that hasn't been produced without animal testing is countered by the argument that we do not have an industry that can produce enough vegan food to sustain the entire human population.

Cosmetics on the other hand...

I'll admit that as of now, vegan food probably couldn't feed everyone on Earth, but just as we are finding alternatives to animal testing, we are working towards finding sustainable non-animal products that are just as nutritious and tasty as meat.

Vegetarian food is a whole other argument though. Just a century ago, people's diet consisted of substantially less meat; not because of moral obligations, but because farmed food was (and is) cheaper and more efficient on a ratio of calories/energy input. Even now in third world countries, people mainly eat crops because meat is too expensive. When you get down to it, meat is essentially a luxury made commonplace for us because of mass production and technology.

Think of it this way, a Big Mac here is around 4$ last time I checked and provides 540 calories. Meanwhile, a pack of Top Ramen Oriental Noodles (which doesn't have animal products) costs about ten dollars a pack for 16, each worth 190 calories. A Big Mac would be 135 calories per dollar, while the ramen would be 304 calories per dollar. In a large number of cases, vegetable products are more cost efficient than their animal product counterparts.

While I'm not saying that we should fly in packages of ramen to third world countries, we need to- wait, that's actually not a bad idea! If you'll excuse me, I need to set up a meeting with the president now...

 

[Frybird]

Feel free to poke holes in it and/or flame me unnecessarily for being a furry. Either one works.

I don't wanna!

I'd much rather flame you for the sentence above or for that dinky little "animals are better than us" speech...

Feel free to present your own opinion, but I'm still of the opinion that humans are the lowliest. Well, not THE LOWLIEST, but lowlier than we give ourselves credit for.

lowlishness.

As Generic Gamer pointed out, there are enough animals who harm thier enviroment in order to survive. Just because it's on a smaller scale doesn't mean it isn't true.
And guess what? Just about everything animals do is also just for the benefit for themselves, maybe except for cases of symbiosis that, however, also exists for humans as we do help breed and caring for animals.

And in terms of evolution, humanity is pretty strong. We can adapt to almost anything without going through painful and long processes of physical adaptation, but rather by improvising. It's an insanely impressive feat.
You don't ever need, as you given as an example, punch a cow to death with your fists, since you know how to use weapons. You can survive extreme cold by something other than hoping to find a patch of soil that isn't frozen. Et cetera et cetera.

Actually, in your Statement, you say alot about why humans suck, but never why animals ARE actually "better". Most Animals are brainless and instinct-driven, lack self awareness, and act either through biological conditioning or through pure selfishness or only for the benefit of thier kin.

All while posting on the internet and stating you have a thing for anthropomorphised animals, wich is hilariously hypocritic for sooo many reasons.

And to top it off, you end your statement by putting yourself in a "underdog" kind of position, assuming and provoking that people attack you for your lifestyle/hobby/fetish/whatever, so you can later get comfortable dismissing any counter-arguments as "furry-hate".

 

[ThePinkAcidSmurf]

Snip

Snip

Agriculture is vital in providing Africa with enough food (thank you Norman Borlaug), but it's a continent that still has issues with famines, people simply die because there's not enough food. So to eliminate meat would simply cost more lives. Also look at the nutrional related healthissues they have in third world countries. It's not just the amount of food that's an issue. Yes you can't survive on meat alone, but it's easier to get the body what it needs when meat is a part of the diet. Personally, I eat more fish than red meat or poultry. Simply because it costs the same or less where I live (and also very deliscious).

About the Big Mac argument, wouldn't you be pissed if someone told you how to spend your money? No you can't buy that deliscious ramen. You must buy that shitty lowgrade tofu. No you're not allowed to buy anything like spices or sauces to change the taste. etc. My point is that people are allowed to spend their money as they please, we have no business telling them what to buy and not.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Agriculture is vital in providing Africa with enough food (thank you Norman Borlaug), but it's a continent that still has issues with famines, people simply die because there's not enough food. So to eliminate meat would simply cost more lives. Also look at the nutrional related healthissues they have in third world countries. It's not just the amount of food that's an issue. Yes you can't survive on meat alone, but it's easier to get the body what it needs when meat is a part of the diet. Personally, I eat more fish than red meat or poultry. Simply because it costs the same or less where I live (and also very deliscious).

About the Big Mac argument, wouldn't you be pissed if someone told you how to spend your money? No you can't buy that deliscious ramen. You must buy that shitty lowgrade tofu. No you're not allowed to buy anything like spices or sauces to change the taste. etc. My point is that people are allowed to spend their money as they please, we have no business telling them what to buy and not.

I'd like to remind you that livestock require lots of food before they are killed. Not to give you an "Energy Pyramid 101" lesson, but an animal will use up more energy than it provides to the next animal on the food chain. So raising livestock means less food overall which is counterproductive to the hunger crisis.

The nutrition/protein argument is an often heard one, but there are numerous alternatives for getting protein. Nuts and beans provide a high calorie, high protein, high vitamin diet. That's why a huge part of African subsistence farming consists of bean growing. Vegetables like peas, corn, broccoli, and spinach also provide protein as well as numerous vitamins and minerals. You can have a well rounded diet without meat, and you don't need to live in an industrialized society to do it.

The whole Big Mac argument (and the paragraphs up there) is only to show that a non-meat diet can be less expensive, more nutritious, and more efficient for the agricultural industry than a meat diet. I don't believe in mandating anything or depriving anyone of their rights, but it does no harm for me to explain my beliefs on meat and illustrate the benefits of a vegetarian diet. Again, you can do whatever you want, I just don't personally agree with it.

 

[Para199x]

I own chickens. I love my chickens, some of them have names (we dont eat the family favs). However, we do eat them. Its not processed meat, its natural. In fact, if you eat meat this way it helps your immune system as opposed to buying red meat at the store.

It's hard to kill an animal, but I'm not so liberal as to be a vegetarean. However I find it interesting you point out mcDonalds... I try to sway all my friends from eating there. They dont buy American products, their beef is barely technically meat, and they are funding rainforest clearing and therefore the debeautification of Earth. I'm with you on the no McDonalds.

Vegetarianism has nothing to do with liberalism. Liberalism is the ideal of having little government control and as few laws as possible. Vegetarianism is a choice to do with what you eat; there is no connection there at all.

Oh? Dictionary.com for Liberal;
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression

I was not reffering to the political party, but this.

If you believe the fluff, their beef is actually Australian beef.

So, eat McDonalds folks - our economy needs it.

Its great if it supports local economies... i just dont like how far the meat has to travel. if you live in Australia, Mcdonalds should buy Australian beef, America American and so on. I'm not an isolationist, trade is good. However beef is another matter....

And your dictionary definition agrees with mine, how is freedom of action something which has anything to do with vegetarianism?

 

[JayDeth]

I lol'd. Seriously, great job making my day, topic creator. I have to show this to everyone I know.

 

[Blindrooster]

I own chickens. I love my chickens, some of them have names (we dont eat the family favs). However, we do eat them. Its not processed meat, its natural. In fact, if you eat meat this way it helps your immune system as opposed to buying red meat at the store.

It's hard to kill an animal, but I'm not so liberal as to be a vegetarean. However I find it interesting you point out mcDonalds... I try to sway all my friends from eating there. They dont buy American products, their beef is barely technically meat, and they are funding rainforest clearing and therefore the debeautification of Earth. I'm with you on the no McDonalds.

Vegetarianism has nothing to do with liberalism. Liberalism is the ideal of having little government control and as few laws as possible. Vegetarianism is a choice to do with what you eat; there is no connection there at all.

Oh? Dictionary.com for Liberal;
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression

I was not reffering to the political party, but this.

If you believe the fluff, their beef is actually Australian beef.

So, eat McDonalds folks - our economy needs it.

Its great if it supports local economies... i just dont like how far the meat has to travel. if you live in Australia, Mcdonalds should buy Australian beef, America American and so on. I'm not an isolationist, trade is good. However beef is another matter....

And your dictionary definition agrees with mine, how is freedom of action something which has anything to do with vegetarianism?

It's a choice.

 

[Para199x]

I own chickens. I love my chickens, some of them have names (we dont eat the family favs). However, we do eat them. Its not processed meat, its natural. In fact, if you eat meat this way it helps your immune system as opposed to buying red meat at the store.

It's hard to kill an animal, but I'm not so liberal as to be a vegetarean. However I find it interesting you point out mcDonalds... I try to sway all my friends from eating there. They dont buy American products, their beef is barely technically meat, and they are funding rainforest clearing and therefore the debeautification of Earth. I'm with you on the no McDonalds.

Vegetarianism has nothing to do with liberalism. Liberalism is the ideal of having little government control and as few laws as possible. Vegetarianism is a choice to do with what you eat; there is no connection there at all.

Oh? Dictionary.com for Liberal;
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression

I was not reffering to the political party, but this.

If you believe the fluff, their beef is actually Australian beef.

So, eat McDonalds folks - our economy needs it.

Its great if it supports local economies... i just dont like how far the meat has to travel. if you live in Australia, Mcdonalds should buy Australian beef, America American and so on. I'm not an isolationist, trade is good. However beef is another matter....

And your dictionary definition agrees with mine, how is freedom of action something which has anything to do with vegetarianism?

It's a choice.

That still doesn't explain why you'd have to be liberal to be a vegetarian, it's a choice if you pick either way, all Liberalism has to say on the matter is that you can be vegetarian or not. Being vegetarian isn't a liberal ideal.