Meat

[SillyBear]

Do you eat meat?

Yes.

If yes, why?

Taste and nutrition.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?

Yes, if it tasted okay and wasn't dangerous to eat.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)

Yeah, definitely. Beef is great nearly all of the time, it is very versatile. Pork is okay but I am one of the unlucky people (I think about 40% of people are in my boat) who is sensitive to boar taint. Lamb is great with greek or middle eastern flavours. Chicken is wondrous but it dangerous to eat from unclean areas. Fish is amazing when I'm in the mood for it and repulsive when I'm not.

 

[an annoyed writer]

Also, since cultured meat is becoming a thing that costs less and less, the vegetarians can finally stop bitching soon, so we can all win there.

As we saw in the other eating thread, there are people who just don't like meat and not just because of ecological reasons or empathy reasons.

The context of the remark was directed at those who do ***** about it for ecological and empathetical reasons. Those who simply dislike meat because of personal tastes aren't usually the ones bitching about the subject.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

The context of the remark was directed at those who do ***** about it for ecological and empathetical reasons. Those who simply dislike meat because of personal tastes aren't usually the ones bitching about the subject.

Fair enough.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Do you eat meat? No.
If no, why? Basic empathy?

I wouldn't call it 'basic empathy'. Were it 'basic' I think more people would have it and therefore be vegetarians.
If anything it would be 'generalised empathy'.

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

 

[Boris Goodenough]

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

You're comparing black people to animals? That's pretty racist.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Yep, I eat meat (all kinds, no particular preference so long as it isn't crappy), and I do so because I like it. Nothing more, nothing less. I have nothing against synthetic meat. I would probably eat it so long as it has the taste and texture it should.

 

[Compatriot Block]

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

You're comparing black people to animals? That's pretty racist.

I'm not sure if you were being serious with that response, but I am genuinely bothered that he is comparing the Civil Rights and abolitionist movements to not eating meat.

snip

I'm quoting you directly because I don't like it when people talk about users without them being notified, myself included. Fair's fair, you get to respond.

To respond to the original topic, I do eat meat. It's tasty and I can't come up with any reason against it that doesn't seem to fly in the face of the rest of the natural world.

I would probably try synthetic meat.

My favorite land-flesh is steak (different cuts for different occasions) and my favorite sea-meat is Copper River salmon.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

You're comparing black people to animals? That's pretty racist.

No, I'm explaining how material interests can override empathy. If what you got out of that is "black people are animals" I think you need to reevaluate who the racist one is.

I am genuinely bothered that he is comparing the Civil Rights and abolitionist movements to not eating meat.

Are you guys being serious?

 

[Lawnmooer]

Do I eat meat?

Yeah... I think like 95% of all my meals contain meat of some kind (The exceptions being the occasional bit of pasta I get that either uses a basic cheese or tomato sauce)

Why do I eat meat?

Because it tastes good... Like really good. All the variety of meats available (Different parts of different animals) and different ways to cook said meats (Heck the most common demonstration of this is when people order steaks... Rare/Medium Rare/Well Done)

I also can't eat too much vegetables... Due to a poor, protein heavy diet eating vegetables on their own (I.E. Without meat) gives me an upset stomach... This causes issues when I visit my sisters as most of them are vegetarian (They've started buying meat for when I visit, similar to how I pick up vegetarian food for when they visit me)

Would I eat synthetic meat?

Sure, once they have the process a little more refined - Ease of production (Also size of what they synthesise, as as far as I know they've only created very small pieces of meat that they kind of have to clump together to get a bite sized amount) and of course get the necessary minerals and such to get the taste to be at least on par with actual meat (Due to the way that it's made without things such as blood/minerals etc in an actual body, the synthesised meat is lacking on the taste so stuff like Beef tastes like basic meat (Which happens to taste like chicken))

Do I have a preference in meat?

Uhh... I typically eat anything meaty (Though Faggots are a bit... Different... Though nothing a bit o' gravy can't fix) though I guess my preference would be beef of some kind... Closely followed by Pork (Sausages and Bacon are just amazing... Especially when combined to form Pigs in Blankets)

 

[pearcinator]

I am 5'7" and weigh 50kg (110 pounds) and have done since Yr 8 (I am now 22 yrs old). I don't think it's all about WHAT you eat but HOW MUCH you eat. I don't care what I eat and I often eat the 'worst' parts of food (chicken skin, bacon fat etc.) but I definitely don't eat as much as what others do.

We can generally survive for 3 weeks without food...we don't NEED to eat as much as we are given, to me a plate consisting of 300g steak (1 pound=450g), a couple of potatoes, some veges and gravy is a full satisfactory meal. In America the food portions are sooo much bigger and I struggled to eat it all. So that led me to conclude that people are obese because they eat too much, not just because of what they are eating.

In answer to your questions;

Do you eat meat?

Yes. At least once or twice a day.

If yes, why?

Because it tastes so good!

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?

Sure, if it tasted the same then I don't see why not.

Do you have a preference in Meat?(as in both in terms of Animal and individual Dish)

I eat almost all types of meat...I don't really like oysters, mussels and scallops (they taste too much like the ocean) and ham is probably my least favourite meat (it tastes too processed) but I still eat it occasionally.

Nothing beats a good steak though! Only thing that comes close is a big piece of grilled fish but steak is still better.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

No, I'm explaining how material interests can override empathy. If what you got out of that is "black people are animals" I think you need to reevaluate who the racist one is.

Your analog uses the enslavement history of a part of the human race to the using animals for food, so in effect you are using the line of reason that black enslavement is equal to animal enslavement in terms of logical reasoning for the basis of basic empathy.
Do you think neutering cats and dogs is as bad as neutering people against their will? If no, then we have established that your basic empathy towards animals and humans is different and not so basic.
If yes, well then...

Also I tend to like hyperboles, a lot.

 

[Ryleh]

Currently I'm not eating meat. Not so much for the whole animal rights business, but more for my own health and the health of the planet. At the moment we grow more food for the animals we eat than for humans, which is pretty weird given all the famines around the world. Producing all this food for the animals we eat is destroying the environment and (if you believe in it) contributing to global warming. Also too much red meat is associated with heart disease and bowel cancer which doesn't sound like much fun.

I do still eat meat every now and then, but I find most of the stuff in the supermarkets tastes weird and watery anyway.
I find most of my favourite foods don't include meat to begin with. I'll take a good vegetarian bento box over those processed supermarket steaks any day.

 

[Arakasi]

Do you eat meat? No.
If no, why? Basic empathy?

I wouldn't call it 'basic empathy'. Were it 'basic' I think more people would have it and therefore be vegetarians.
If anything it would be 'generalised empathy'.

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

What I would consider 'basic empathy' is simply the capacity to feel emotionally connected (or feel for) things that someone would consider similar to them. Obviously the degree to which someone feels connected to something can differ from person to person, and can be affected by social norms. I'd say that the reason behind black people being enslaved and not treated well in general has to do with their recognition as a person. If someone recognises something as a person, that tends to be when empathy kicks in, so when black people begun to be recognised as people, that would have been the process of an empathetic generalisation, whereas it was previously seen that only certain denominations of white people were people, now black people were included under that banner too.
So far from basic empathy, animal empathy is about as generalised as you can get, unless one wishes to start empathising with rocks.

I should also note, that 'I feel bad about animals being hurt' is not a moral argument, it is at best, a justification for you not eating meat, and therefore not applicable to anyone else. Though I'm sure you weren't asserting that.

 

[Arakasi]

No, I'm explaining how material interests can override empathy. If what you got out of that is "black people are animals" I think you need to reevaluate who the racist one is.

Your analog uses the enslavement history of a part of the human race to the using animals for food, so in effect you are using the line of reason that black enslavement is equal to animal enslavement in terms of logical reasoning for the basis of basic empathy.
Do you think neutering cats and dogs is as bad as neutering people against their will? If no, then we have established that your basic empathy towards animals and humans is different and not so basic.
If yes, well then...

Also I tend to like hyperboles, a lot.

It's a fair philosophical tactic to try find inconsistencies in an argument by pointing out similar situations, and evidently being an animal lover, this person does see them as similar situations. So I certainly hope you aren't offended over what was said.
I wouldn't be shocked if Manic wasn't against the neutering of animals and humans, under the condition that it's for their own good, and the good of their (potential) offspring. Though I can hardly speak for him or her.

 

[Dimitriov]

I LOVE meat!

I have eaten (and loved) beef, pork, chicken, lamb, venison, turkey, duck, bear, boar, bison, swordfish, tuna, salmon... the list goes on.

I would never willingly eat synthetic meat, it goes against the entire point of eating meat which is to eat another animal. Freaking hippy scientists trying to ruin everything! We don't need more goddamn food, we need fewer people!

 

[manic_depressive13]

No, I'm explaining how material interests can override empathy. If what you got out of that is "black people are animals" I think you need to reevaluate who the racist one is.

Your analog uses the enslavement history of a part of the human race to the using animals for food, so in effect you are using the line of reason that black enslavement is equal to animal enslavement in terms of logical reasoning for the basis of basic empathy.
Do you think neutering cats and dogs is as bad as neutering people against their will? If no, then we have established that your basic empathy towards animals and humans is different and not so basic.
If yes, well then...

Also I tend to like hyperboles, a lot.

Hyperbole and missing the point, apparently. The premise of the argument was "If this is truly BASIC EMPATHY, more people would agree with it". My example shows that even BASIC EMPATHY can be overridden by social and material factors, which is how we were able to exploit and mistreat people in the past and present.

What I would consider 'basic empathy' is simply the capacity to feel emotionally connected (or feel for) things that someone would consider similar to them. Obviously the degree to which someone feels connected to something can differ from person to person, and can be affected by social norms. I'd say that the reason behind black people being enslaved and not treated well in general has to do with their recognition as a person. If someone recognises something as a person, that tends to be when empathy kicks in, so when black people begun to be recognised as people, that would have been the process of an empathetic generalisation, whereas it was previously seen that only certain denominations of white people were people, now black people were included under that banner too.
So far from basic empathy, animal empathy is about as generalised as you can get, unless one wishes to start empathising with rocks.

I should also note, that 'I feel bad about animals being hurt' is not a moral argument, it is at best, a justification for you not eating meat, and therefore not applicable to anyone else. Though I'm sure you weren't asserting that.

HAHAHA. Okay. So for no reason everyone just decided black people weren't really people, and then they were like, oh I guess they are, and were able to "generalise" our empathy to apply to them.

I think you might be racist. Obviously I can't speak for you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you think black people are lesser human beings.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

Hyperbole and missing the point, apparently. The premise of the argument was "If this is truly BASIC EMPATHY, more people would agree with it". My example shows that even BASIC EMPATHY can be overridden by social and material factors, which is how we were able to exploit and mistreat people in the past and present.

Then it's really not basic, is it then?

Do your favour neutering of animals?

 

[Dimitriov]

Do you eat meat? No.
If no, why? Basic empathy?

I wouldn't call it 'basic empathy'. Were it 'basic' I think more people would have it and therefore be vegetarians.
If anything it would be 'generalised empathy'.

I would call it basic empathy, which is overridden by social structures. Would you consider empathising with black people to be "basic empathy"? If so, how was slavery in America allowed to happen? Why did black people have to fight so hard for their civil rights? Shouldn't more people have acknowledged their rights and there humanity, if it is 'basic'?

Empathy is a feeling where one equates the condition of another to ones own condition. Empathy is generally reserved for those a person considers part of their own group or population. Studies suggest that animals (like chimpanzees) only have empathic reactions for individuals they know, whereas humans seem to be able to empathize with all other humans.

That may, however, be in part a social construct (this is merely my own theorization). Unfortunately there is a fair bit of historical evidence that suggests many people really did view other "races" as being effectively a different species from themselves, and could thus easily lack any empathetic response. Basically it's an example of the very natural way we divide our entire world into categories of "us" and "them" as do most animals. There are some very good reasons for doing so as far as survival is concerned.

So certainly we now recognize, quite rightly, that all humans are people just like us. So yes, that would be basic empathy. Extending that to animals, however, is not basic: it goes beyond the normal. Pet animals might well be naturally considered as part of ones group and thus receive empathy, but doing so for any and all animals clearly goes beyond that.

At any rate whatever line you draw is arbitrary: do you feel empathy for the bacteria and fungi that your body kills all the time to keep you alive? I certainly hope not. The point being not that bacteria and cows are the same but that somewhere you have made a personal distinction between various lifeforms (based on some criteria), and that has allowed you to extend your sense of empathy further than normal. After all plants are alive too, and I assume you don't worry too much about killing plants.

Feeling empathy for bacteria and plants would be non conducive to living your own life. Feeling it for larger animals does not necessarily impede on your ability to live a full healthy life, but it doesn't help and doesn't really seem to be a natural response.

My point isn't that you are in any way wrong to do so, but only that it can't really be considered "basic Empathy." I assume you eat plants because you consider them less... alive? mobile? than animals, which is fine. I and most people just make the same kind of distinction between humans and animals.

 

[R4ptur3]

Do you eat meat?
Hell to the yes I do.

If yes, why?
Because it's god damn tasty that's why, and to me it's natural to eat it.

Would you eat Synthetic Meat?
No way. There is enough stuff made out of crap. We don't need more of it.

Do you have a preference in Meat?
Chicken. It almost goes with everything. Pasta: yep Rice: yep Veg: yep etc.