Men and homophobia

[DirtyJunkieScum]

No, I think she's pretty wide of the mark there. She's putting a woman's outlook onto guys.

She believes that a lot of men feel threatened by homosexual men as they actually have the physical power to harass them as women are harassed on a daily basis.

She's imagining that they share her (or women in general's) fear of harassment which I sincerely doubt. As people have said it's more of a cultural thing. Gay is not manly and you cannot be associated with not being manly so you must hate it. Hate it or people might think you are gay, or at least less manly, and that will lower your place in the social hierarchy and he who has the highest place in the social hierarchy gets all the women.

She's that Times columnist right? I've never really taken the musings of columnists too seriously, I've seen some serious bullshit spouted by the like over the years.

 

[yeti585]

I'd suggest not taking information on why some men are homophobic from a woman.

I disagree I mean that is the logic that makes many some women say men cannot be feminists or men cannot possibly fathom the pain of child birth etc. See we have this magical thing called empathy it allows us to understand other people.

I don't see how it is the logic that makes women say that men can't be feminists. Men know that there is irregularity in rights and can want to change that. But, I get your second example. The problem is that men can imagine what childbirth feels like, but they cannot be sure. The most we can do is "That probably hurts like hell!". I don't appreciate how condescending that last sentence was. One can be vicarious of an experience they understand, an experience that is like. If a man is being verbally assaulted a woman can "put herself in his shoes" because she can be verbally assaulted at any moment. Empathy no longer works when you do not know what the emotions/feelings/thoughts that would come of the situation.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

How do you feel about this theory?

Are you somehow implying that people can be cruel bastards to other people they find sexually repulsive, when they discover that there is even an outside chance that the undesirable person could find them sexually attractive?

You, seriously, had to read a book to discover that? Really?

 

[Esotera]

Yeah, I'd say that's true. I'd also say that homophobic men tend to be more uncomfortable with expressing their own sexuality (possibly uncertain) than non-homophobes. A common reasoning I hear is "I've got nothing against gays, I just don't want them to be all in my face with their sexuality". Which is quite amusing because the person saying it is always talking about sex with girls and how great they are.

 

[Total LOLige]

Yeah, I'd say that's true. I'd also say that homophobic men tend to be more uncomfortable with expressing their own sexuality (possibly uncertain) than non-homophobes. A common reasoning I hear is "I've got nothing against gays, I just don't want them to be all in my face with their sexuality". Which is quite amusing because the person saying it is always talking about sex with girls and how great they are.

Definite closet homosexual.

I think most dudes come across as homophobes because they're afraid that them admitting they're not homophobic will make people think they're gay, if you get what I mean. The usual go to banter guy to guy is to make a joke about ones mother or how the other is a gay, this mentality is going to make people uncomfortable when it comes to them admitting that they haven't got a problem with gays. I saw a picture on facebook from one of those subscribe accounts with photos that have likes in the hundreds of thousands, it had a picture of two lesbians kissing and a caption above that read "Like if you support lesbian and bi relationships" it had a shit load of likes. It made me wonder how many likes it would have gotten if it had also said "& gay relationships" probably not as many.

 

[kurupt87]

Physical intimidation? Nah. There are more homophobes in the rough and ready subcultures than the daintier ones; they genuinely don't mind a tussle.

The intimidation/anger more likely comes from the fact that this gay man might view them as the taker, the submissive partner, the *****. It has nothing to do with physical intimidation, it's just sexual intimidation and character judgement.

 

[BeeGeenie]

Hmm... Men are genetically designed to seek sexual status, we also tend to be much more hierarchical than women. Therefore the idea of being a "sexually dominant" Alpha male is a very important part of the hetero male psyche, and strong cultural pressure to conform to masculine ideals as a sign of social status could certainly account for most homophobia.

In short, I don't think it's about fear of gay men, per se; but rather fear of being ASSOCIATED with gay men, and thereby losing social status as a traditionally masculine alpha male.

Ironically, scientific studies show that homophobic males are actually more likely to be aroused by homoerotic imagery than non-homophobic straight males. Which reinforces the idea that homophobia is actually a sign that they are insecure and ashamed about their own sexual identity.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I saw a picture on facebook from one of those subscribe accounts with photos that have likes in the hundreds of thousands, it had a picture of two lesbians kissing and a caption above that read "Like if you support lesbian and bi relationships" it had a shit load of likes. It made me wonder how many likes it would have gotten if it had also said "& gay relationships" probably not as many.

Or if it was a picture of two homosexual men kissing. It kind of annoys me how much it's skewed towards lesbians, since, for heterosexual men, the instant reaction to lesbians are "Oh, that's fucking hot!", whereas to homosexual men, it's "Urgh, you're gay, don't try to fuck me in the ass!"

But Facebook's little campaigns are stupid anyway. They don't actually do anything. So when I see them, I just roll my eyes and move on.

 

[Esotera]

Definite closet homosexual.

Possibly. He's definitely compensating for something, but I get the feeling it's more mother issues than anything else.

I think most dudes come across as homophobes because they're afraid that them admitting they're not homophobic will make people think they're gay, if you get what I mean. The usual go to banter guy to guy is to make a joke about ones mother or how the other is a gay, this mentality is going to make people uncomfortable when it comes to them admitting that they haven't got a problem with gays. I saw a picture on facebook from one of those subscribe accounts with photos that have likes in the hundreds of thousands, it had a picture of two lesbians kissing and a caption above that read "Like if you support lesbian and bi relationships" it had a shit load of likes. It made me wonder how many likes it would have gotten if it had also said "& gay relationships" probably not as many.

I'm not too sure that calling someone gay actually equates with calling them homophobic either, it's just unfortunately became a word used to signify that something sucks. Which isn't great if taken out of context, but is fine in general conversation. I suppose that's probably correct, there's not too many regular guys I know that would publicly say that homosexuality is fine with them, but I know the majority of them are fine with it. There's still a stigma there for whatever reason.

 

[Smeatza]

?Gay sex meant two hours of sexual pleasure in exchange for two hours of sexual pleasure. Heterosexual sex meant two hours of sexual pleasure in exchange for a lifetime of responsibility. Heterosexuality was a bad deal! The fear behind homophobia was that no one would be providing for the next generation. Everybody would be having fun. Thus ?fun? became a sign of immaturity; ?hedonism? in many forms became illegal.?

I've been reading a lot of Warren Farrell recently.

 

[Swyftstar]

As others have said it may be more of a masculinity issue. Men are tasked with fulfilling what society sees as their gender role at an early age and it can be somewhat daunting. Failure to do so means failure to be a man which basically means failing at existing. Homosexuality doesn't fall into that gender role so it is seen by homophobes as the ultimate failure of masculinity. So homophobes fear homosexuals because they fear their own failures at fulfilling their perceived gender role. Men who are confident in their masculinity and manhood generally aren't homophobes.

haha, Captcha: fancy free

 

[FolkLikePanda]

I know 2 people who bat for the other team and they're sound enough.

To be honest, I feel a bit disgusted when I see two blokes kiss, kind of like when you see someone pick their nose. I mean they're entitled to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't affect me but I still find it disgusting.

If I knew someone was gay I wouldn't feel intimidated because after all they're just human beings, it doesn't mean they're rapists but if one did come on to me I'd just tell them to fuck off and if they kept attempting I would be quite hostile towards them.

 

[Blunderboy]

It's possible, but I think its more about deep-seeded cultural preconceptions. Masculinity is wired into our brains at a young age and we're programmed to recognize things (or in this case people) that don't conform. People are afraid of what they don't know/understand.

I'll admit, depending on the guy in question I'll get a bit creeped out if they hit on me... but then again I feel similarly uncomfortable when a woman I am not interested in hits on me.

Pretty much this.
In either case I will react in the same way. I'm flattered but not interested. Not that it ever happens.

 

[RubyT]

The main problem is that gay is associated with not being manly. And men want to be manly.

That's why it's a slur: calling somebody (or something gay) is just a new way of calling it girly.

And men are not allowed to be girly. Girls can be tomboys and sexy, they can dress in men's clothes, hang out in shady bars, play basketball and a lot of guys will find that cool. But men with make-up and femine clothes are always on the verge of a beat-up.

Madonna had a sample on her song 'What it feels like for a girl' (don't know from where) that deals with this. Men alledgedly think it's degrading to be a woman.

Grown up men usually only have real problems with homosexuality if they're religious and/or if they were brought up to despise it.

 

[Agow95]

I have a bisexual friend and one of his favourite hobbies is hitting on anyone who even slightly references his sexuality in any context, it works very well in freaking people out, but it doesn't stop them asking him questions about being bi.

 

[In Search of Username]

I'd say homophobia is more often just the accepted state of being, rather than it being actual fear. Plenty of people I know would make plenty of mildly homophobic jokes, but have gay friends and are clearly perfectly comfortable with them. I expect for the people who are seriously unfriendly towards gays fear certainly comes into it, but for the kind of casual homophobia that's far more often the case, I consider that generally to be a (tasteless) joke based on trying to fit in, nothing to do with your actual feelings about gay people.

 

[The Funslinger]

It's possible, but I think its more about deep-seeded cultural preconceptions. Masculinity is wired into our brains at a young age and we're programmed to recognize things (or in this case people) that don't conform. People are afraid of what they don't know/understand.

I'll admit, depending on the guy in question I'll get a bit creeped out if they hit on me... but then again I feel similarly uncomfortable when a woman I am not interested in hits on me.

Seems like the best way to put it.

I personally advocate the ideal that, be you man or woman, be the groper man or woman, if they do not immediately cease and desist when told to, the gropee should have the right to perform amateur dental work upon said groper, using their fist as the primary dental implement.

 

[Lord Mountbatten Reborn]

Perhaps said homophobic men are unable to understand how anyone can't like women.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Men [snip] tend to be much more hierarchical than women.[sup]CITATION NEEDED[/sup]

...We must be thinking about different things. Women are just as, if not more hierarchical than men, they just tend to not be involved with the "grr I ar strong and made of muscles" hierarchy.[footnote]less testosterone and more boobs tends to get in the way of that[/footnote]