men involved with domestic violence

[Chris Tian]

Stab someone right in the eye, blinding them with your finger. A woman can do this just as easily as a man.

Haha, how to properly gauge somebodys eye out is always the second thing I teach people if they ask about self defense against physically clearly superior opponents.

I have always trouble imagine men getting abused by their women, dont get me wrong I know that exists and I know there are women who could kick any mans ass, but they are so rare that I just have trouble wrapping my head around. That makes it obviously hard for me to empathize.

The same goes for:

-oh they didn't mean it
-they just get angry somtimes but I love them
-they were so sorry, they looked so sad
-I don't want to leave
-they threataned to harm me if I left
-they threatand to harm themselves
-It was my fault if you think about it
-they don't "abuse" me...stop making a bigger deal than it is
-that kind of thng happens to other people

This kind of victim mindset, I get it theoretically, but just can't wrap my head around it and always catch myself thinking: "Just pull yourself the fuck together and defend yourself, get help, run away do anything!"
I know this is sort of insensitive and/or ignorant, but its still stuck in my brain.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

If it can happen to one group of people, it can happen to almost any.

This is all USA figures, but apparently:

20% of all women suffered rape or attempted rape sometime in their life.

4.8% of all men were forced to penetrate someone else, usually a woman; had been the victim of an attempt to force penetration; or had been made to receive oral sex.

I took a course on gender and whatnot, and interestingly this view men never getting raped has changed in recent years simply due to a clarification in what rape is. One study found that 1 in 70 men admitted to being the victim of rape. But when those men were asked if they had been forced to penetrate someone against their will, those numbers become 1 in 20 (still low compared to women). It's the same thing with intimate partner violence. Most men wouldn't say they are the victim of abuse, but when asked questions like "has a partner ever used contraception as a means of control or threat", the numbers are showing that men are victimized more often than previously thought

 

[Master_of_Oldskool]

The point is valid, but I do have to point out that the same group of people were present in both scenarios, so either A) They were actors paid to give that reaction, B) They just thought that the abusive wanker was getting his just desserts, or C) They'd figured out what was going on. Or, y'know, D) They really were shitty people who think it's okay for a woman to beat a man, but the other three options are possible.

Here's what would be going through my head if I saw that specific situation, in sequence:

"Great, what did he do to piss her off like that? Sigh, couples and their squabbles."
"Oh wow she's really getting physical...she's going to push him over the limit at that rate, she's asking for it..."
"Holy crap what is she doing?! That man's self-restraint is incredible, but he's going to punch her fucking daylights out any moment!"
"Wait...what? WTF is going on here. Why is that guy taking so much abuse? What's wrong with him? Is he going to retaliate or not??"
After that I would walk away because he's in no immediate danger and something is clearly fishy about this situation, it makes no sense.

See, during that whole time I was worried more for the woman than the man because I was expecting a serious backlash that could possibly leave her an injury or two. But that never came, so I was forced to conclude that the man needed to get his shit sorted and learn to stand up for himself. You know, behave like a freaking man.

I can sense the metric shit-ton of hate coming my way - call me ignorant, call me insensitive, but I simply represent what people in that entire area would've been thinking. And for the most part it's correct.
Of course nobody helped, one or two people even laughed. The sight of a man getting abused like that by his female partner seems to defy all logic considering he's like 3 inches taller than her.

I am NOT saying that males aren't victims of domestic violence. Of course it's possible. It's just that the scenario shown in the video was a joke, completely unrealistic and unbelievable.

Bullshit. Plenty of tiny little waifs who get thrown around by big men have the physical means to retaliate. Knives are readily available, as are guns if you live in 'murrica. Pepperspray is literally handed out for free in many places. They can even just run and get help. You know why they don't? Because they've been put into a place, psychologically, where the abuse is their own fault. They think they did something to piss him off, that they brought it on themselves, that they should feel sorry for being hit. And it works the same way when the situation is switched- yes, the guy is a bit taller than her (though not muscled by a long shot), but there are any number of reasons why he wouldn't retaliate. Because he feels he deserves it, because years of being slapped have left him with the impression that she would win (whether she would or not), on and on and on. If you're looking for rationality, you shouldn't be discussing abuse, because there's nothing fucking rational about it.

 

[Glexn]

I think that maybe, women are more handicapped in terms of self defense because they are pretty much raised spoiled rotten, little girls tend to get showered with lots of love and affection if they are good children. They get used to everyone always being nice to them and everybody liking them. I guess that could make a person pretty weak.

If women are handicapped regarding self defence because they're just big ol' softies who expect everything on a silver platter, logically, women who're raised poor or deprived, or even just like males, should experience no domestic violence, correct? They'd bust out their inner Rambo the second they saw their husband or wife raise a fist or a knife?

You're right, I guess we should just throw bootstraps at people brainwashed into accepting constant, possibly life-long violence, and it'll all work out. I can see it now, the victim of years of violence will march into the kitchen, tell their partner in no uncertain terms they are leaving and taking the kids, and subsequently won't be beaten within an inch of their life for challenging their abuser's power. And it won't happen every day after that either, because the abuser won't need to reassert their dominance. And the victim definitely will not be killed by an overzealous attack.

All makes perfect sense.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

snip

I would encourage you to actually read some cases on intimate partner violence and especially stalking. Nothing is ever that simple and many cases (such as having kids with said ass holes) that can leave people stuck to these kinds of people for a long time and there's often very little the law can do about it

Haha, how to properly gauge somebodys eye out is always the second thing I teach people if they ask about self defense against physically clearly superior opponents.

As a legitimate question (because I'm probably wrong), how easy and how fast can you gauge someone's eyes? If I was a strong man (and I'm not) and I was beating a much weaker woman (which I wouldn't do) and she tried to reach for my eyes or start gauging, I feel like I could easily smack her away

 

[Riot3000]

Why does awareness need to be raised? Male or female, you have a strong body with powerful muscles. If you aren't a total wimp you won't just allow someone to hurt you. A fully grown female is perfectly able to defend herself. A fully grown man likewise. Use your powerful assets to your advantage in a dangerous situation. Bite someones Freaking nose off if you have to, you got teeth, use what you need to, to defend yourself. Stab someone right in the eye, blinding them with your finger. A woman can do this just as easily as a man.

There really is no point in raising awareness. People let themselves get hit by other people by choice. There's always a choice, and when you make the wrong one, that's your problem you gotta deal with. If I saw two people walking alone and one person hitting the other, I wouldn't step in to help, and I wouldn't smile and grin. I would continue on my way and let grown adults handle their own lives. If someone was being ganged up on and killed, however? I would help.

abuse goes deeper than the physical aspect, its psychological,

-oh they didn't mean it
-they just get angry somtimes but I love them
-they were so sorry, they looked so sad
-I don't want to leave
-they threataned to harm me if I left
-they threatand to harm themselves
-It was my fault if you think about it
-they don't "abuse" me...stop making a bigger deal than it is
-that kind of thng happens to other people

Thank you while physical violence is bad I think people focus on that more because it is visual the actual mental aspect which is to far overlooked I say.

 

[Vault101]

This kind of victim mindset, I get it theoretically, but just can't wrap my head around it and always catch myself thinking: "Just pull yourself the fuck together and defend yourself, get help, run away do anything!"
I know this is sort of insensitive and/or ignorant, but its still stuck in my brain.

which is why I imgaine for some people addmitting their being "abused" is dillicult

cause you know...it just happned that one time...

 

[Vault101]

There is no "other side" of the story, except possibly the sides of the abusers themselves.

Domestic and sexual violence perpetuated by any sex against any sex is a feminist concern, because the gender-essentialist nonsense that considers women all such precious little glass sculptures is the same gender-essentialist nonsense that says that men should put up with any abuse (or they're no better than women). The same devaluation of women leaves men with reduced options.

There's also the problem that reducing this issue to "men abusing women or women abusing men" ignores the abuse victims in the gay and lesbian communities, but that might be a bit derailing here.

I wonder if people find the idea of a same sex realtinionship abuse easyer to wrap their heads around than a woman abusing man

because we often expect same sex couples to follow a heteronormative structure..so the "stronger" (more masculine) one is able to abuse the "weaker" one...even with females

I don't know, its probably irrelevant

 

[Chris Tian]

Haha, how to properly gauge somebodys eye out is always the second thing I teach people if they ask about self defense against physically clearly superior opponents.

As a legitimate question (because I'm probably wrong), how easy and how fast can you gauge someone's eyes? If I was a strong man (and I'm not) and I was beating a much weaker woman (which I wouldn't do) and she tried to reach for my eyes or start gauging, I feel like I could easily smack her away

That obviously depends on the exact situation but lets assume this:

A women of around 50kg gets attacked by a much stronger man, lets say around 80kg. He has one hand at her throat and forces one hand down her pants. If she than executes the technique(I will describe it in a bit) fast and with all her might she will most likely do serious damage to his eye before he can stop her.

Proper eye gauging technique: You place your palm on your attackers cheeck like you slapped him and just left the hand where it landed. Next you place your thumb (of the same hand of course) between his nose and eyeball and stab the eyeball with it, but not in the middle, keep your thumb next to the nose. This way you can stab with all your might without the risk off slipping of his eye ad the side of his face.

This technique is very effective in situations like the above mentioned. In most cases men will try to control a women similar to what i described instead of trying to deal immediate damge, like just punshing or kicking her.

If he is actually beating here without holding her down or anything or just standing infront of her this technique is obviusly much harder to do.

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

This kind of victim mindset, I get it theoretically, but just can't wrap my head around it and always catch myself thinking: "Just pull yourself the fuck together and defend yourself, get help, run away do anything!"
I know this is sort of insensitive and/or ignorant, but its still stuck in my brain.

as someone who's mother had this same mindset, and several of my sister's friends, even they can't get their heads wrapped around it. it isn't something that can be understood since it's irrational, driven solely by emotions.

 

[lacktheknack]

Why does awareness need to be raised? Male or female, you have a strong body with powerful muscles. If you aren't a total wimp you won't just allow someone to hurt you. A fully grown female is perfectly able to defend herself. A fully grown man likewise. Use your powerful assets to your advantage in a dangerous situation. Bite someones Freaking nose off if you have to, you got teeth, use what you need to, to defend yourself. Stab someone right in the eye, blinding them with your finger. A woman can do this just as easily as a man.

How does it feel to not have scruples or psychological barriers? Jesus Christ. Just because YOU wouldn't shut down and wait for the blows to stop doesn't mean that you can expect everyone to be the same way.

 

[Chris Tian]

This kind of victim mindset, I get it theoretically, but just can't wrap my head around it and always catch myself thinking: "Just pull yourself the fuck together and defend yourself, get help, run away do anything!"
I know this is sort of insensitive and/or ignorant, but its still stuck in my brain.

which is why I imgaine for some people addmitting their being "abused" is dillicult

cause you know...it just happned that one time...

You are probably right. The thing is, even though I think like i described, if someone would tell me they are getting abused I would help anyway I can, regardles of the gender of attacker or victim.

I would probably get super furious at first and in the mood to break a few ribs, but then calm down, let them stay with me as long as they need to and drive them to a police station.

This kind of victim mindset, I get it theoretically, but just can't wrap my head around it and always catch myself thinking: "Just pull yourself the fuck together and defend yourself, get help, run away do anything!"
I know this is sort of insensitive and/or ignorant, but its still stuck in my brain.

as someone who's mother had this same mindset, and several of my sister's friends, even they can't get their heads wrapped around it. it isn't something that can be understood since it's irrational, driven solely by emotions.

I'm not sure I get that right, sorry my english fails me every now and again.

Your mother and friends of your sister were getting abused and didn't do anything about it, and you and your sister can't wrapp your head around that?

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

I'm not sure I get that right, sorry my english fails me every now and again.

Your mother and friends of your sister were getting abused and didn't do anything about it, and you and your sister can't wrapp your head around that?

no, the ones getting abused couldn't really get their heads around everything, well... at first, my mother eventually did and got away. my sister's friends not so much.

 

[Chris Tian]

I'm not sure I get that right, sorry my english fails me every now and again.

Your mother and friends of your sister were getting abused and didn't do anything about it, and you and your sister can't wrapp your head around that?

no, the ones getting abused couldn't really get their heads around everything, well... at first, my mother eventually did and got away. my sister's friends not so much.

Ah okay, my bad.

This "victim-mindset" is something I will probably never understand, because it is the exact opposite of my nature. Of course you are right that it is rootet in irrational emotions, but so is the "fight-or-flight" instinct, I don't get why that does not kick in with those people.

May I ask who abused your mother and how she got away? The mere thought of this makes me angry, I would literally kill the guy if it were my mother.

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

Ah okay, my bad.

This "victim-mindset" is something I will probably never understand, because it is the exact opposite of my nature. Of course you are right that it is rootet in irrational emotions, but so is the "fight-or-flight" instinct, I don't get why that does not kick in with those people.

May I ask who abused your mother and how she got away? The mere thought of this makes me angry, I would literally kill the guy if it were my mother.

my father and one of my mother's ex boyfriends. how she got away from it is by growing up and maturing. when it comes to my nature my instinct is flight, and i have a bit of a victims mentality, well... not a bit, the abuse i received as a child at home and at school has made me a shut and i avoid people as much as i can.

 

[Asita]

I know we touch on sexism/feminism a lot on here so I thought its only fitting to show the other side of the story.

I'm probably just being nitpicky but I'm not sure I agree with phrasing this issue as [i/]the other side[/i] which implies that a femnist vew is somehow "opoased" to the issue of male victims of domestic violence, which isn't true (aside from what people think)

Ideally, yes. Unfortunately there's some real world precedence to the contrary among some loons (Largely confined to second wave but seeing a bit of a resurgence in what I've occasionally seen referred to as 'fourth wave' feminism...you know, the "if it's sex with men, it's rape" wackos), some very unfortunate choices and a bit of an unfortunate tendency even among the more levelheaded to think of these issues entirely in female-centric terms.

For the sake of example with that last bit, you might remember a "Don't be that Guy" poster campaign? Well the group responsible has its own site, which greets you with an image of a boy with a bloody nose pointing out the problem with telling young boys to "man up" and be tough...namely that - and I quote - it's "a crisis in masculinity that causes violence against women and girls". That's the problem they saw and focused on. Not that the kid was effectively being encouraged to be violent, not that the mindset might put him in danger, not that it encourages him to be a bully and hurt other people, the specific possibility that he might grow up and hurt women. The very thing they refer to as a male crisis is identified exclusively in terms of how it affects women.[footnote]As you might have guessed, this poster irks me something fierce.[/footnote] While yes, feminism is supposed to be about equality between the sexes - and continues to be so in many cases - there have been a fair amount of things cropping up that lend themselves to the idea that only part of the story is being told, so I'm not sure it's entirely fair to fault those who say as much.

but yeah, "ideas" about masculinity can be harmful to men, there was this video/monolouge on the trivialisation of male rape (which unfortunatly I can't find/link right now) which started out "funny" but soon became sad, it was about how "funny" male rape is and how a 14 year old boy getting with his teacher is "cool/lucky" which obviously...is not

Spoiler: This wouldn't happen to be the video you meant, would it?

 

[Chris Tian]

Ah okay, my bad.

This "victim-mindset" is something I will probably never understand, because it is the exact opposite of my nature. Of course you are right that it is rootet in irrational emotions, but so is the "fight-or-flight" instinct, I don't get why that does not kick in with those people.

May I ask who abused your mother and how she got away? The mere thought of this makes me angry, I would literally kill the guy if it were my mother.

my father and one of my mother's ex boyfriends. how she got away from it is by growing up and maturing. when it comes to my nature my instinct is flight, and i have a bit of a victims mentality, well... not a bit, the abuse i received as a child at home and at school has made me a shut and i avoid people as much as i can.

Thats another strange thing, that some abuse victims seem to subconsciously seek out abusive partners and have several different over the course of their life.

All that is sad to hear, if I could I would invite you to my dojo, we work with abuse victims sometimes. Helping people realize their own strength can be very effective.

I realize there are people that like being introvert, but it doesn't sound like that with you. Have you ever sought out help, to overcome those issues? Do you have a relationship to your father nowdays? And may I ask how old you are(just like early20, mid20)?

I am one nosy sonofabitch, stop me if I'm being to personal.

 

[Qwurty2.0]

Raising awareness about male abuse and violence in general is always a good thing. I wish my friends had taken me seriously when I told them about my father and other things. Men are expected to have a heart of adamantium and just act like the crap they've been through never happened, which is usually impossible without some form of help.

Hopefully this video helps.

 

[Keiichi Morisato]

Thats another strange thing, that some abuse victims seem to subconsciously seek out abusive partners and have several different over the course of their life.

All that is sad to hear, if I could I would invite you to my dojo, we work with abuse victims sometimes. Helping people realize their own strength can be very effective.

I realize there are people that like being introvert, but it doesn't sound like that with you. Have you ever sought out help, to overcome those issues? Do you have a relationship to your father nowdays? And may I ask how old you are(just like early20, mid20)?

I am one nosy sonofabitch, stop me if I'm being to personal.

i am introverted by nature, so i am fine with my current seclusion for the most part, the abuse made things worse. i do like being around people, and i can be pretty out going, especially when i meet someone for the first time, but over time i start getting nervous and i start avoiding people because i don't want to be bullied anymore, and i would usually get bullied after i have gotten to know and trust the person. i tend to be a very trusting person, i will trust someone i have just met with my life, so when that trust is broken it is very devastating to me. i do now have a relationship with my father, limited one yes, but i do have one with him, he has changed much over the years and has been sober for a good many years. i am 22.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Bullshit. Plenty of tiny little waifs who get thrown around by big men have the physical means to retaliate. Knives are readily available, as are guns if you live in 'murrica. Pepperspray is literally handed out for free in many places. They can even just run and get help. You know why they don't? Because they've been put into a place, psychologically, where the abuse is their own fault. They think they did something to piss him off, that they brought it on themselves, that they should feel sorry for being hit.

I highly doubt that can be applied to all cases. The main reason I can think of why "little waif" wouldn't retaliate with a knife or pepper-spray is in fear of making the situation 10x worse. If she ends up hurting the guy it would make him go absolutely berserk - and she knows it, that's what she would fear the most. If she retaliated in a past encounter (e.g. she tried to hit him back) and that went HORRIBLY wrong for her because he became twice as violent, she would learn "I must not retaliate or he will get even angrier". That sounds like the most likely scenario. Obviously we're talking serious cases here, but it could escalate to that.

Guns...obviously retaliating with a gun isn't the smartest idea because she could get charged for unlawful use of a firearm and potentially murder. The psychological weight that comes with pointing a gun at your partner would also be too much, would she really have the guts to pull the trigger and face the consequences? If she lowers the gun, what will the abuser do to her in anger?

And it works the same way when the situation is switched- yes, the guy is a bit taller than her (though not muscled by a long shot), but there are any number of reasons why he wouldn't retaliate. Because he feels he deserves it, because years of being slapped have left him with the impression that she would win (whether she would or not), on and on and on. If you're looking for rationality, you shouldn't be discussing abuse, because there's nothing fucking rational about it.

My best guess for why the guy wouldn't retaliate is because of fear of accidentally hurting her. He could get charged for domestic violence and/or assault. Especially if it happened in public like that, it's extremely risky for a guy to take any action against a woman and he should do his best to just defend himself or run away (shouldn't be hard at all as a guy).

Psychological weakness sounds like something ANY person could address if they tried and really wanted to address it. That's the problem with the majority of goddamn domestic violence cases, the victim is completely irrational and illogical. Why should help be given to someone who doesn't even want to help themselves? As harsh as it sounds, they need to sort their shit out first.

If someone has reached a stage where they have been broken-down psychologically over time enough to accept the abuse as their own fault, then that is a problem they have to first fix within themselves. Only then can start to address the problem on the outside with their abuser.