2) If we don't treat video games seriously, who the hell will? Fox News!?!? Video games matter and so do their story. All I do is just to demand something well written.
3) RAPE IS NOT THE PROBLEM IN THIS GAME. It's the shitty placement of it. Game of Thrones was not complained that was used to expand the character and show his evilness rear it's ugly head. It's very similar to this situation, but unlike a television show, you also need to think of where you put this stuff, or else it come off as tasteless.
Like I said, at the moment the stories in games suck, being little more than a hero story. The back ground to the character is something equally as boring "his family member died" or some shit. MGS goes full on with a back story, Solid snake is a legendary soldier but he is also a clone of a legendary soldier that has been made with flaws ... how much better is that than say Gears of war or uncharted? Gears of war is a legendary soldier turned coward 'cos he wanted to rescue his dad, hardly a unique story. Uncharted is a story of a professional treasure hunter. There are plenty of other games that are like this and they are all equally as boring.
If you boil down MGS far enough you get "soldier trying to save the world" but it has so much more going on than that. I just named 3 games, MGS, uncharted and GOW ... I summed up all three main guys with a short sentence but the only one that missed a massive information about was snake.
Even epic story driven games like mass effect (don't tell me how ME3 ruined the franchise), Shepard's back story is boiled down already for you and just makes you pic where you were born and what you did in some war. Even in the game the story is never really more complicated than "stop the big bad", sure people have there own little arcs, such as that ***** that "owns" omega getting kicked off and you help her get it back or saving Liara's friend from the shadow broker.
So if video games story matter, why do almost all of them suck?
I know I am an MGS fanboy but even I can admit, the tone is wacka-doodle but at least it tries!
The difference is, game of thrones (I assume) had full on girl getting fucked, tits bouncing etc but in MGS it's a simple audio clip.
Totally fine, totally fair, I just ask if rape is done that's it's done well. And in my humble opinion, video games can deal with difficult topics well.
AND on the note of how media comparing, you could say the same thing about Firefly, Star Trek, and Star Wars, but those aren't awesome for the amount of depth put in the main character. Plus there's the difference from depth and too much shit added to the character profile to the point of impenetrable degrees. That's really not that fair...
Well, if that's the case. All I have to say is fair enough. Now does anybody want to talk about the story part of the OP and not just the placement rant.
If there was anyone in the history of video games who deserved to be raped, Paz is probably pretty high on that list.
She's a double agent for Cipher. She stole Mother Base's Metal Gear and tried to kill the MSF with it so that she would be free to NUKE THE US, killing millions and potentially kicking off World War Three (Peace Walker takes place at the height of the Cold War, the antagonist's goal throughout most of the game is to nuke Cuba, a Russian ally, to prove that his theory of nuclear deterrence is correct. It turns out that he's wrong and his plan goes to shit when the US decides that it would rather destroy the planet than let itself get nuked. So of course, Paz feels the need to nuke the US after that incident because yolo.)
So there's actually a super good reason for why Miller starts to strangle Paz the moment he sees her. Because he (rightfully) wants her dead.
The Crispy Tiger said:
Totally fine, totally fair, I just ask if rape is done that's it's done well. And in my humble opinion, video games can deal with difficult topics well.
This is why rape scenes need to be handled with extreme care in video games.I have not seen any AAA game do this sucessfully with the rape scene coming across as something just put in there for the sake of it.
Video games, where you can kill hundreds and thousands of people and it's wonderful fun, but a hint of rape and suddenly it's a controversy. I honestly cannot understand the logic here.
Totally fine, totally fair, I just ask if rape is done that's it's done well. And in my humble opinion, video games can deal with difficult topics well.
AND on the note of how media comparing, you could say the same thing about Firefly, Star Trek, and Star Wars, but those aren't awesome for the amount of depth put in the main character. Plus there's the difference from depth and too much shit added to the character profile to the point of impenetrable degrees. That's really not that fair...
Is that meant to say "can't"? I think games can handle any story better than any other medium. I think rape was handled really well, like we have both said "it was an audio clip" one that you had to scout around for. Would you have rather been forced to mash X to restrain her, then press square to jam it in? I don't want to play rapelay but I think if gaming is going to be taken seriously it needs to have the odd game with nasty bits.
Even as an MGS fanboy, I forget huge chucnks of the story and I LOVE that! Want to know why? Think of your favorite movie ... I'll wait ... right, ever had that feeling of wanting to watch it again? I get that just about every time I pick up MGS! Listening to EVA/big momma tell her story in that church, just before the Raging Raven boss fight blows my mind every time!
Well, if that's the case. All I have to say is fair enough. Now does anybody want to talk about the story part of the OP and not just the placement rant.
If there was anyone in the history of video games who deserved to be raped, Paz is probably pretty high on that list.
She's a double agent for Cipher. She stole Mother Base's Metal Gear and tried to kill the MSF with it so that she would be free to NUKE THE US, killing millions and potentially kicking off World War Three (Peace Walker takes place at the height of the Cold War, the antagonist's goal throughout most of the game is to nuke Cuba, a Russian ally, to prove that his theory of nuclear deterrence is correct. It turns out that he's wrong and his plan goes to shit when the US decides that it would rather destroy the planet than let itself get nuked. So of course, Paz feels the need to nuke the US after that incident because yolo.)
So there's actually a super good reason for why Miller starts to strangle Paz the moment he sees her. Because he (rightfully) wants her dead.
The Crispy Tiger said:
Totally fine, totally fair, I just ask if rape is done that's it's done well. And in my humble opinion, video games can deal with difficult topics well.
This is why rape scenes need to be handled with extreme care in video games.I have not seen any AAA game do this sucessfully with the rape scene coming across as something just put in there for the sake of it.
Video games, where you can kill hundreds and thousands of people and it's wonderful fun, but a hint of rape and suddenly it's a controversy. I honestly cannot understand the logic here.
Totally fine, totally fair, I just ask if rape is done that's it's done well. And in my humble opinion, video games can deal with difficult topics well.
AND on the note of how media comparing, you could say the same thing about Firefly, Star Trek, and Star Wars, but those aren't awesome for the amount of depth put in the main character. Plus there's the difference from depth and too much shit added to the character profile to the point of impenetrable degrees. That's really not that fair...
Is that meant to say "can't"? I think games can handle any story better than any other medium. I think rape was handled really well, like we have both said "it was an audio clip" one that you had to scout around for. Would you have rather been forced to mash X to restrain her, then press square to jam it in? I don't want to play rapelay but I think if gaming is going to be taken seriously it needs to have the odd game with nasty bits.
Even as an MGS fanboy, I forget huge chucnks of the story and I LOVE that! Want to know why? Think of your favorite movie ... I'll wait ... right, ever had that feeling of wanting to watch it again? I get that just about every time I pick up MGS! Listening to EVA/big momma tell her story in that church, just before the Raging Raven boss fight blows my mind every time!
No I mean CAN. CAN, they CAN handle difficult topics on the simple basis that they are interactive so you can get more attached and grasp a better understanding of said issue. Whether the AAA game industry does it well is up in the air but that's besides the point.
Well, if that's the case. All I have to say is fair enough. Now does anybody want to talk about the story part of the OP and not just the placement rant.
If there was anyone in the history of video games who deserved to be raped, Paz is probably pretty high on that list.
She's a double agent for Cipher. She stole Mother Base's Metal Gear and tried to kill the MSF with it so that she would be free to NUKE THE US, killing millions and potentially kicking off World War Three (Peace Walker takes place at the height of the Cold War, the antagonist's goal throughout most of the game is to nuke Cuba, a Russian ally, to prove that his theory of nuclear deterrence is correct. It turns out that he's wrong and his plan goes to shit when the US decides that it would rather destroy the planet than let itself get nuked. So of course, Paz feels the need to nuke the US after that incident because yolo.)
So there's actually a super good reason for why Miller starts to strangle Paz the moment he sees her. Because he (rightfully) wants her dead.
The Crispy Tiger said:
Totally fine, totally fair, I just ask if rape is done that's it's done well. And in my humble opinion, video games can deal with difficult topics well.
This is why rape scenes need to be handled with extreme care in video games.I have not seen any AAA game do this sucessfully with the rape scene coming across as something just put in there for the sake of it.
Video games, where you can kill hundreds and thousands of people and it's wonderful fun, but a hint of rape and suddenly it's a controversy. I honestly cannot understand the logic here.
And what Chico's traumatic damage. Does he deserve it? Again, new to the series, I'd like hear your opinion on him and what the hell's happen to him since all of this is started.
Well, I replied to this during this morning. Here it is again:
"Oh Jesus Christ, it's this thread again. I've already written a small essay on this. Suppose I'll go again.
UberGott said:
Caramel Frappe said:
(apart from naming him Skullface. I don't care what you say, who wants to walk around being called that with such a jacked up face? Even in the Dark Knight, 2-face still went by his first name. Just saying.)
Hang on a second... do they ever say "Skull Face" out loud in Ground Zeroes? Or is it just the name given to him in all the trailers marketing materials?
I'm not being cheeky here, I genuinely don't remember.
They basically say it when you see him and his name flashes up underneath. And I think a few characters mention it once or twice as a derogatory nickname.
Johnny Novgorod said:
All I got from this is "a girl has a bomb in her vagina".
They never say it, they only imply it, and to be honest, this is equivalent to watching Apocalypse Now and saying "All I got from this is that Americans slaughtered innocent people for fun".
geldonyetich said:
Sounds to me like this whole, "We had you extract a bomb from a girl's guts only to have to insufficient time to extract another one from her nether region which then explodes - and oh by the way the bonus feature is hearing her being gang raped" is basically what happens when the developers thought to themselves, "We want to be dark and edgy, but people have the Internet and sensationalist news now, so that sets the bar rather high." Alright, fair enough, if being edgy to you is that important.
Jesus Christ, did anyone actually play this game? It's not "Well, we had best leave that in her vagina for shits and giggles", it's "Sorry, Big Boss, but they once again outplayed you and you didn't manage to save me; they hid another one in a place you'd never look". Decoy bombs actually happen in warfare.
And you don't hear her being gang-raped. You hear the conversation up to that point, and then it doesn't happen. I wish people would play the damn game or at least watch the YouTube clip of it before going off on one. This is the whole "Mass Effect is porn" thing, where no one plays the damn game but are willing to give their opinion based off someone else's opinion based off a comedy review of it.
Jandau said:
What the actual fuck? As in what the bloody hell were they thinking? I watched the ending, it was needlessly gory and really made me uncomfortable. It was in poor taste, but I can kinda get over that. However, that interrogation tape... WHAT THE BLOODY FUCK? I feel I should be put on a watch list for listening to that. I've been gaming for over two decades at this point and I've seen some messed up shit, but this in right up around the top of the list. Who thought that was a good idea?
Seriously, there was a board meeting and someone said "Torture rape!", someone replied "Forced pedophilia!" and people thought this was something they should roll with.
All I can say to that is "Nope!" and jetpack away...
"It was uncomfortable". Yes. Yes it was. You remember how in The Last of Us how scary it is to be a little girl getting chased around by a man who plans to murder you in a restaurant with no way to escape? It is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable; that is the tone they want.
"Peadophilia" he says, despite the fact she is 25. And a Prisoner of War. In a war camp. You know, what actually happens in these places. Rape is a real threat if you get captured and you're a women.
"Torture"? We've had torture in EVERY single Metal Gear Solid. Is it because she is a girl? "Torture rape"? This is mentioned to happen to Cecile and Paz in Peace Walker, to EVA and Raiden in MGS3, to 3 of the Beauties in MGS4, and once again, it's what actually happens in these places.
Kojima has said about Phantom Pain from meeting 1 that he wanted to really discuss themes and he didn't want to shy away from them. He has always hinted at these themes of the pain of war, and what REALLY happens, and to take away all of the hero veneer and Hollywood polish and just put you in there. It's not nice or pleasant. Neither was Spec Ops: The Line. They're not there for happy fun times. The Phantom Pain isn't either.
SNCommand said:
Well, I'm guessing Metal Gear Solid V: Phantom Pain will likely include Ground Zero as well so no point in buying it really, if not it will probably be a lot cheaper than it is now
Sigh. It's not a reward. There's no fanfare. There isn't a level up song. It's a gruff veteran who discovers, to his and your horror, a tape of one of his old friends being raped and tortured and having to listen to it.
And once again, you don't listen to the rape. You hear the prequel, and then silence. Much like the murder in Psycho, you hear and see nothing; your mind does the rest.
nima55 said:
erttheking said:
nima55 said:
The only way that bomb-gut thing sounds like it could be any worse is if they put it in her uterus.
Oh... Well that is just... SUPER not ok. Like seriously, that is just whole new unexplored levels of not ok, so many that boggle the mind. It makes me look at the whole MGS franchise with a little bit of not ok.
Once again, can you play the game or watch someone else play it? It won't take too long, the game is short.
It's a decoy bomb. It's a real life tactic used. And it often works in real life. And it nearly worked in this game.
And does it make you feel uncomfortable? Well, that was the point. These places are not supposed to be holiday resorts. I would go into more detail, but I have to explain this EVERY time. Find either the other thread or earlier this comment.
thetenet said:
It is a very dark game in some parts, which reinforces the inconsistency problem of the franchise as a whole. That being said, I liked the game, ignoring the price (which it was lower to me in absolute terms since the parallel dollar in Argentina absorbed most of the blow), MGS is one of the franchises in the triple A world that tries to speak of real world problems within the context of its own narrative,it brought up electronic surveillance way before Snowden in MGS2, child soldiers exist all over the world and when they get captured no one gives them any special treatment because of their age.
What other game series dares to bring such things to the forefront? I mean just look at Spec Ops The Line it brought PTSD and civilian killings to the game and hardly anyone played it. This is why I still applaud the MGS series and I will play the Phantom Pain the day it comes out.
Yes. Because you don't like it, means no one should like it. Congratulations on being the stereotype of the Escapist community.
nima55 said:
Oh... Well that is just... SUPER not ok. Like seriously, that is just whole new unexplored levels of not ok, so many that boggle the mind. It makes me look at the whole MGS franchise with a little bit of not ok.
This is barely new ground for MGS. It's not even particularly envelope pushing, as prior threads on this have illustrated. Like, I get why people are uncomfortable. What I don't get is why this retroactively taints a series that's always been about two steps from tentacle rape.
So, we go from Solid Snake, who is all-things-considered a "good guy" who is fighting an "evil guy" where the lines are drawn and you know who the bad guys are and who the good guys are (kind of- there's a lot of betrayal in the series).
But if you play Peace Walker or Ground Zero, and paid a lot of attention to the previous entries, then you'd know the Metal Gear Solid is VERY dark. It just doesn't show it. It's not like Gears of War which needs to shove it's grittiness and darkness into your face. It's dark in that brightly coloured room with the closet that no one wants to open because it screams at night when you're not looking kind of way.
Big Boss's journey is not a happy one. We are embarking on a man who goes from being the epitome of fairness, mercy and peace to becoming a man who plunges the entire world into war on the brink of destruction; the man who is eventually the ultimate bad guy who we, as Snake, must find and kill twice. We are going to watch the journey of a good man become evil through those small necessary steps across the line until he finds himself as bad as the people he is fighting. We are going to see war, proper war, and what war is really like through the eyes of a man who is, by his one admittance, only good and only happy with a gun in his hands and blood on his face.
We will see him lose everything, and we are going to watch him learn to deal with the guilt of leading his friends and followers to death, of surviving when everyone he knows and loves and is better than him dies, when his every action causes nothing but death and misery and the only option left is to hold a nuclear missile to the throat of the entire world.
And brilliant. And deep. He's basically the end result of a really shitty indie dev given a massive budget and constant ego stroking from a fanbase who will defend the premise of paying 40 bucks for an hour of gameplay because Kojima did it, even though a couple years ago the concept of such a paid demo was floated by (EA? Activision? I forget which, they're so similar in most respects) and people lost their bloody minds. Not to mention Dead Rising, which was only five bucks.
No fan here is defending the price; even I who spends a lot of time explaining my point of view to people doesn't bother defending the price. As far as I am concerned, I am happy I played it, and I love Metal Gear Solid, and I'm glad I played it earlier and it was (sorta) worth it to me, and I'm saying only to me, as a Metal Gear Solid fanatic, do I find the price (sorta) acceptable. I wouldn't, however, recommend it for that price.
And I like his writing. He has touched upon a lot of topics which are interesting, and he has an interesting point of view; all of his villains are memorable and there are some interesting philosophical debates to be had around a lot of his ideas. You may not like his writing, and there is a bit of a problem with dialogue "I have... Metal Gear." "METAL GEAR!?" "Yes, Metal Gear". But I like it well enough, it's always interesting.
Ego stroking? He gets death threats; for Raiden, for ending MGS4, for potentially killing Solid Snake. No, he is the end result of a game developer who has been told "You MUST make this game" and he's responded "Well, if I am going to make this game, then I can make whatever game I want. And I want to make a game which really challenges the player and the themes of war." This is precisely the kind of thing that people constantly complain about.
Spec Ops; So AMAZING because it deals with war REALISTICALLY! It makes you realise how bad war is.
The Last of Us; SO AMAZING because it deals with HORRIBLE PEOPLE and how good people can be SHITTY and KILL EACH OTHER and RAPE THREATS and SO DRAMATIC!
Bioshock Infinite: SO AMAZING because it talks about REALLY DEEP THEMES! OH MY GOD! And it's SO DARK while LOOKING BRIGHT!
Tomb Raider: ARGH, WHY CAN'T VIDEO GAMES DEAL WITH RAPE!? (Alternatively) ARGH, VIDEO GAMES AREN'T ALLOWED TO DEAL WITH RAPE! ONLY FILMS AND BOOKS CAN!
Ground Zeroes: UGH! THIS GAME MAKES REFERENCES TO RAPE, TORTURE, MULTILATION AND MURDER! THAT NEVER HAPPENS IN WAR!
Here it is. A game which deals with all those things people complain about Call of Duty for doing. The sort of game which takes what the Red Cross was complaining about when they said video games don't deal with war crimes.
This game is doing precisely that. You want video games to be taken seriously? Here one is. Phantom Pain is going to be similar to Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now. It's not going to be fun. Or comfortable. It's not meant to be.
Next up: Phantom Pain will charge for bullets and Kojima's fans will defend the practice so we can literally go back and look and see which of them screamed when the same idea was floated by John Rikki Tiki Tavi.
And what Chico's traumatic damage. Does he deserve it? Again, new to the series, I'd like hear your opinion on him and what the hell's happen to him since all of this is started.
Chico was a child soldier in service of the FSLN, who ran drugs like cocaine into the US using a KGB processing plant in order to fundraise for weapons they could use to fight against Peace Sentinel (A branch of the CIA).
To his credit he did try to stop the drug trafficking, but he is the one who was responsible for the UN taking an interest in MSF (and eventually lead to the destruction of Mother Base by XOF forces, although that's also the fault of Huey).
Did he 'deserve' what he got? Probably not. But it's war. 'War is Hell' for a reason.
the hidden eagle said:
Nobody "deserves to get raped".Paz was forced to be a double agent because she feared Zero and what he would do to her. She might have betrayed Big Boss and Mother Base but she did'nt serve to be tortured,raped,have most of her organs removed,and turned into a human bomb.
Rape is a very touchy subject and many victims often say they can never get over it,some even have psychological problems stemming from the rape itself.That's why games need to handle it with extreme care otherwise it comes off as tasteless.
'I was scared of my boss' doesn't go very far in justifying attempting to glass the world. Because if she'd have succeeded in launching ZEKE's nuke, that's what the end result would have been. She deserved literally anything up to (and including) brutal murder.
Well, I replied to this during this morning. Here it is again:
"Oh Jesus Christ, it's this thread again. I've already written a small essay on this. Suppose I'll go again.
UberGott said:
Caramel Frappe said:
(apart from naming him Skullface. I don't care what you say, who wants to walk around being called that with such a jacked up face? Even in the Dark Knight, 2-face still went by his first name. Just saying.)
Hang on a second... do they ever say "Skull Face" out loud in Ground Zeroes? Or is it just the name given to him in all the trailers marketing materials?
I'm not being cheeky here, I genuinely don't remember.
They basically say it when you see him and his name flashes up underneath. And I think a few characters mention it once or twice as a derogatory nickname.
Johnny Novgorod said:
All I got from this is "a girl has a bomb in her vagina".
They never say it, they only imply it, and to be honest, this is equivalent to watching Apocalypse Now and saying "All I got from this is that Americans slaughtered innocent people for fun".
geldonyetich said:
Sounds to me like this whole, "We had you extract a bomb from a girl's guts only to have to insufficient time to extract another one from her nether region which then explodes - and oh by the way the bonus feature is hearing her being gang raped" is basically what happens when the developers thought to themselves, "We want to be dark and edgy, but people have the Internet and sensationalist news now, so that sets the bar rather high." Alright, fair enough, if being edgy to you is that important.
Jesus Christ, did anyone actually play this game? It's not "Well, we had best leave that in her vagina for shits and giggles", it's "Sorry, Big Boss, but they once again outplayed you and you didn't manage to save me; they hid another one in a place you'd never look". Decoy bombs actually happen in warfare.
And you don't hear her being gang-raped. You hear the conversation up to that point, and then it doesn't happen. I wish people would play the damn game or at least watch the YouTube clip of it before going off on one. This is the whole "Mass Effect is porn" thing, where no one plays the damn game but are willing to give their opinion based off someone else's opinion based off a comedy review of it.
Jandau said:
What the actual fuck? As in what the bloody hell were they thinking? I watched the ending, it was needlessly gory and really made me uncomfortable. It was in poor taste, but I can kinda get over that. However, that interrogation tape... WHAT THE BLOODY FUCK? I feel I should be put on a watch list for listening to that. I've been gaming for over two decades at this point and I've seen some messed up shit, but this in right up around the top of the list. Who thought that was a good idea?
Seriously, there was a board meeting and someone said "Torture rape!", someone replied "Forced pedophilia!" and people thought this was something they should roll with.
All I can say to that is "Nope!" and jetpack away...
"It was uncomfortable". Yes. Yes it was. You remember how in The Last of Us how scary it is to be a little girl getting chased around by a man who plans to murder you in a restaurant with no way to escape? It is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable; that is the tone they want.
"Peadophilia" he says, despite the fact she is 25. And a Prisoner of War. In a war camp. You know, what actually happens in these places. Rape is a real threat if you get captured and you're a women.
"Torture"? We've had torture in EVERY single Metal Gear Solid. Is it because she is a girl? "Torture rape"? This is mentioned to happen to Cecile and Paz in Peace Walker, to EVA and Raiden in MGS3, to 3 of the Beauties in MGS4, and once again, it's what actually happens in these places.
Kojima has said about Phantom Pain from meeting 1 that he wanted to really discuss themes and he didn't want to shy away from them. He has always hinted at these themes of the pain of war, and what REALLY happens, and to take away all of the hero veneer and Hollywood polish and just put you in there. It's not nice or pleasant. Neither was Spec Ops: The Line. They're not there for happy fun times. The Phantom Pain isn't either.
SNCommand said:
Well, I'm guessing Metal Gear Solid V: Phantom Pain will likely include Ground Zero as well so no point in buying it really, if not it will probably be a lot cheaper than it is now
Sigh. It's not a reward. There's no fanfare. There isn't a level up song. It's a gruff veteran who discovers, to his and your horror, a tape of one of his old friends being raped and tortured and having to listen to it.
And once again, you don't listen to the rape. You hear the prequel, and then silence. Much like the murder in Psycho, you hear and see nothing; your mind does the rest.
nima55 said:
erttheking said:
nima55 said:
The only way that bomb-gut thing sounds like it could be any worse is if they put it in her uterus.
Oh... Well that is just... SUPER not ok. Like seriously, that is just whole new unexplored levels of not ok, so many that boggle the mind. It makes me look at the whole MGS franchise with a little bit of not ok.
Once again, can you play the game or watch someone else play it? It won't take too long, the game is short.
It's a decoy bomb. It's a real life tactic used. And it often works in real life. And it nearly worked in this game.
And does it make you feel uncomfortable? Well, that was the point. These places are not supposed to be holiday resorts. I would go into more detail, but I have to explain this EVERY time. Find either the other thread or earlier this comment.
thetenet said:
It is a very dark game in some parts, which reinforces the inconsistency problem of the franchise as a whole. That being said, I liked the game, ignoring the price (which it was lower to me in absolute terms since the parallel dollar in Argentina absorbed most of the blow), MGS is one of the franchises in the triple A world that tries to speak of real world problems within the context of its own narrative,it brought up electronic surveillance way before Snowden in MGS2, child soldiers exist all over the world and when they get captured no one gives them any special treatment because of their age.
What other game series dares to bring such things to the forefront? I mean just look at Spec Ops The Line it brought PTSD and civilian killings to the game and hardly anyone played it. This is why I still applaud the MGS series and I will play the Phantom Pain the day it comes out.
Yes. Because you don't like it, means no one should like it. Congratulations on being the stereotype of the Escapist community.
nima55 said:
Oh... Well that is just... SUPER not ok. Like seriously, that is just whole new unexplored levels of not ok, so many that boggle the mind. It makes me look at the whole MGS franchise with a little bit of not ok.
This is barely new ground for MGS. It's not even particularly envelope pushing, as prior threads on this have illustrated. Like, I get why people are uncomfortable. What I don't get is why this retroactively taints a series that's always been about two steps from tentacle rape.
So, we go from Solid Snake, who is all-things-considered a "good guy" who is fighting an "evil guy" where the lines are drawn and you know who the bad guys are and who the good guys are (kind of- there's a lot of betrayal in the series).
But if you play Peace Walker or Ground Zero, and paid a lot of attention to the previous entries, then you'd know the Metal Gear Solid is VERY dark. It just doesn't show it. It's not like Gears of War which needs to shove it's grittiness and darkness into your face. It's dark in that brightly coloured room with the closet that no one wants to open because it screams at night when you're not looking kind of way.
Big Boss's journey is not a happy one. We are embarking on a man who goes from being the epitome of fairness, mercy and peace to becoming a man who plunges the entire world into war on the brink of destruction; the man who is eventually the ultimate bad guy who we, as Snake, must find and kill twice. We are going to watch the journey of a good man become evil through those small necessary steps across the line until he finds himself as bad as the people he is fighting. We are going to see war, proper war, and what war is really like through the eyes of a man who is, by his one admittance, only good and only happy with a gun in his hands and blood on his face.
We will see him lose everything, and we are going to watch him learn to deal with the guilt of leading his friends and followers to death, of surviving when everyone he knows and loves and is better than him dies, when his every action causes nothing but death and misery and the only option left is to hold a nuclear missile to the throat of the entire world.
And brilliant. And deep. He's basically the end result of a really shitty indie dev given a massive budget and constant ego stroking from a fanbase who will defend the premise of paying 40 bucks for an hour of gameplay because Kojima did it, even though a couple years ago the concept of such a paid demo was floated by (EA? Activision? I forget which, they're so similar in most respects) and people lost their bloody minds. Not to mention Dead Rising, which was only five bucks.
No fan here is defending the price; even I who spends a lot of time explaining my point of view to people doesn't bother defending the price. As far as I am concerned, I am happy I played it, and I love Metal Gear Solid, and I'm glad I played it earlier and it was (sorta) worth it to me, and I'm saying only to me, as a Metal Gear Solid fanatic, do I find the price (sorta) acceptable. I wouldn't, however, recommend it for that price.
And I like his writing. He has touched upon a lot of topics which are interesting, and he has an interesting point of view; all of his villains are memorable and there are some interesting philosophical debates to be had around a lot of his ideas. You may not like his writing, and there is a bit of a problem with dialogue "I have... Metal Gear." "METAL GEAR!?" "Yes, Metal Gear". But I like it well enough, it's always interesting.
Ego stroking? He gets death threats; for Raiden, for ending MGS4, for potentially killing Solid Snake. No, he is the end result of a game developer who has been told "You MUST make this game" and he's responded "Well, if I am going to make this game, then I can make whatever game I want. And I want to make a game which really challenges the player and the themes of war." This is precisely the kind of thing that people constantly complain about.
Spec Ops; So AMAZING because it deals with war REALISTICALLY! It makes you realise how bad war is.
The Last of Us; SO AMAZING because it deals with HORRIBLE PEOPLE and how good people can be SHITTY and KILL EACH OTHER and RAPE THREATS and SO DRAMATIC!
Bioshock Infinite: SO AMAZING because it talks about REALLY DEEP THEMES! OH MY GOD! And it's SO DARK while LOOKING BRIGHT!
Tomb Raider: ARGH, WHY CAN'T VIDEO GAMES DEAL WITH RAPE!? (Alternatively) ARGH, VIDEO GAMES AREN'T ALLOWED TO DEAL WITH RAPE! ONLY FILMS AND BOOKS CAN!
Ground Zeroes: UGH! THIS GAME MAKES REFERENCES TO RAPE, TORTURE, MULTILATION AND MURDER! THAT NEVER HAPPENS IN WAR!
Here it is. A game which deals with all those things people complain about Call of Duty for doing. The sort of game which takes what the Red Cross was complaining about when they said video games don't deal with war crimes.
This game is doing precisely that. You want video games to be taken seriously? Here one is. Phantom Pain is going to be similar to Full Metal Jacket and Apocalypse Now. It's not going to be fun. Or comfortable. It's not meant to be.
Next up: Phantom Pain will charge for bullets and Kojima's fans will defend the practice so we can literally go back and look and see which of them screamed when the same idea was floated by John Rikki Tiki Tavi.
And what Chico's traumatic damage. Does he deserve it? Again, new to the series, I'd like hear your opinion on him and what the hell's happen to him since all of this is started.
Chico was a child soldier in service of the FSLN, who ran drugs like cocaine into the US using a KGB processing plant in order to fundraise for weapons they could use to fight against Peace Sentinel (A branch of the CIA).
To his credit he did try to stop the drug trafficking, but he is the one who was responsible for the UN taking an interest in MSF (and eventually lead to the destruction of Mother Base by XOF forces, although that's also the fault of Huey).
Did he 'deserve' what he got? Probably not. But it's war. 'War is Hell' for a reason.
the hidden eagle said:
Nobody "deserves to get raped".Paz was forced to be a double agent because she feared Zero and what he would do to her. She might have betrayed Big Boss and Mother Base but she did'nt serve to be tortured,raped,have most of her organs removed,and turned into a human bomb.
Rape is a very touchy subject and many victims often say they can never get over it,some even have psychological problems stemming from the rape itself.That's why games need to handle it with extreme care otherwise it comes off as tasteless.
'I was scared of my boss' doesn't go very far in justifying attempting to glass the world. Because if she'd have succeeded in launching ZEKE's nuke, that's what the end result would have been. She deserved literally anything up to (and including) brutal murder.
Zero had eyes everywhere,even Kaz was sent in to spy on Big Boss(though he was'nt told of what Peace Walker really was).It's not implausible to think he'd get his spies to do things for him under the threat of death or worse as what happened to Big Boss and Gray Fox are examples of what Zero is capable of.
Like I said nobody deserves the things Paz went through because it's monstrous.
not everyone's caught up on Game of Thrones asshole. Thanks for the giant unmarked spoiler n a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with the show though. Really makes my day.
not everyone's caught up on Game of Thrones asshole. Thanks for the giant unmarked spoiler n a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with the show though. Really makes my day.
It just seems really gatutious, and don't understand why it needed to be included especially since it's not found in the main pat of the game from what I understand. If it needed to be a main part of the story it should be a main part of the story, and if it's not necessary then why the hell are you including it. It wouldn't put me off the series but it does leave me shocked and scratching my head in confusing. Probably will be skipping this one though.
You do realize that I've never seen a full episode, right?
Anyway, if you come on to the Web expect spoilers. They either appear by accident or trolls will do it purposefully. Just best to watch episodes as they are broadcast.
Not to mention, hasn't the latest episode been out for 4 days or so now? You can't be that into it
You do realize that I've never seen a full episode, right?
Anyway, if you come on to the Web expect spoilers. They either appear by accident or trolls will do it purposefully. Just best to watch episodes as they are broadcast.
Not to mention, hasn't the latest episode been out for 4 days or so now? You can't be that into it
I just finished season 1 with my girlfriend. We wee getting really into it, and up until then we'd both been able to avoid spoilers fairly easily. However for some reason in the past few weeks I seemingly can't turn my head without unmarked game of thrones spoilers. I shouldn't have to essentially go into self imposed internet exile to avoid game of thrones spoilers especially when i don't go anywhere near game of thrones related forum threads, game of thrones based websites or game of thrones related news stories.
It's not a reward, neither is it an easter egg. Those tapes are spread throughout the game (demo would be a more accurate word actually) as they're basically there to show the main character investigating the base further. It's made optional so that player who want all the exposition and details can go for it, and those who don't, won't. In fact, in most games with collectible audio tapes (think 90% of the horrors/action horrors released lately) the tapes are where you find out about all of the horrible things that have been done before you got there.
What a strange thing to be offended by, you're fine with the horrifying contents but not where they're placed in the game? I can kind of understand why people are annoyed with the content itself,[footnote]though I'm fine with it personally[/footnote] I can also comprehend why people think it's the wrong game series to touch on this stuff,[footnote]though again, I disagree[/footnote] your complaint however I just don't get.
Well, to me, it just seems that some peoples level of sensitivity and tolerance toward dark topics is lower than others. That's the extent of it. Rape and pedophilia are two topics most people prefer to forget about, to hide it in the dark shadows and not be exposed to it in media. I completely understand that, just as I would understand someone not wanting to play military shooters because the killing is too graphic, everyone has different thresholds. However some people, such as myself, do not share those limits. I am perfectly fine with exploring those topics, and other incredibly dark subjects, in media from a variety of perspectives. So it's far less of an issue to me. On the contrary, I'd like to see more creators have the courage to explore such themes and insert them into their fiction.
I'd say this, once again, falls into the realm of subjectivity.
Well I'm bothered by it personally because by making it something that isn't absolutely central to the plot, what you're essentially just putting something extremely disturbing and sickening and that's a major socitial problem into the game entirely gratuitously. I mean the poster before me makes a comment about exploring dark topics like this, but from where i'm sitting it doesn't really feel like the topic is actually really explored in the game (although if i'm wrong there, someone please correct me) but mote like it's just a thing that happens that's there jst to get you to hate the villain more or perhaps just for the shock value which isn't cool.
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